Richard Loosemore wrote:
Aki Iskandar wrote:
Hello -
I'm new on this email list. I'm very interested in AI / AGI - but do
not have any formal background at all. I do have a degree in
Finance, and have been a professional consultant / developer for the
last 9 years (including having
Eugen Leitl wrote:
On Sat, Feb 17, 2007 at 08:24:21AM -0800, Chuck Esterbrook wrote:
What is the nature of your language and development environment? Is it
in the same neighborhood as imperative OO languages such as Python and
Java? Or something different like Prolog?
There are
On Sun, Feb 18, 2007 at 12:40:03AM -0800, Samantha Atkins wrote:
Really? I question whether you can get anywhere near the same level of
reflection and true data - code equivalence in any other standard
language. I would think this capability might be very important
especially to a Seed AI.
On 2/18/07, Mark Waser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Chuck is also absolutely incorrect that the only way to generate code by
code is to use Reflection.Emit. It is very easy to have your code write
code in any language to a file (either real or virtual), compile it, and
then load the resulting
Before I comment on Mark's response, I think that the best comment on
this email thread came from Pei, who wrote ...
quote
I guess you can see, from the replies so far, that what language
people choose is strongly influenced by their conception of AI. Since
people have very different
Chuck, I looked at Cobra yesterday, and I like it :-)
I will try to get some time and play with it. My love of Python, and
reluctant admittance of appreciating .NET, are pointing me in the
direction of using one of 3 languages:
In no particular oder:
1 - Python (CPython)
2 - IronPython
[Aki] This is by far too strong a statement - and most likely incorrect.
Don't play with most likelys. Either disprove my statement or don't waste
our time.
Mark, do you work at Microsoft?
No, but the question is irrelevant (as is your working at Microsoft --
except so far as your
Mark -
I don't know you, and have no bones to pick with you. I have no
bases, nor do I have motivations for doing so.
Picking a language is not a science - so to prove or test things,
well ...
If you believe I'm wasting your time - don't bother reading - or
replying to my posts.
I,
On 2/18/07, Aki Iskandar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Chuck, I looked at Cobra yesterday, and I like it :-)
Glad to hear that. :-)
I will try to get some time and play with it. My love of Python, and
reluctant admittance of appreciating .NET, are pointing me in the
direction of using one of 3
On 2/18/07, Eliezer S. Yudkowsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Mark Waser wrote:
Chuck is also absolutely incorrect that the only way to generate code by
code is to use Reflection.Emit. It is very easy to have your code write
code in any language to a file (either real or virtual), compile it,
On 2/18/07, Aki Iskandar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Enough said. I think we can all get along, and learn something from
each other.
Oh, yeah??? Prove it!
LOL No, I'm totally kidding. I couldn't resist making that joke. :-)
There are certainly a couple people on this list that take every
lol ... I enjoy your humor.
Good point on the Microsoft thing. And you're right. I certainly
didn't mean it to be a snide remark. When I used to work at
Microsoft, I got tired of the Microsoft is king attitude - it was
rampant - unfortunately. So my comment was only contextual - the
Chuck Esterbrook wrote:
On 2/18/07, Eliezer S. Yudkowsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Heh. Why not work in C++, then, and write your own machine language?
No need to write files to disk, just coerce a pointer to a function
pointer. I'm no Lisp fanatic, but this sounds more like a case of
One reason for picking a language more powerful than the run-of-the-mill
imperative ones (of which virtually all the ones mentioned so far are just
different flavors) is that the can give you access to different paradigms
that will enhance your view of how an AGI should work internally.
A
Aki,
Picking a language, like any other choice, should be based upon
articulable criteria (even if only because I enjoy writing in it more than
anything else).
Your e-mail(s) provide(d) no substance other than unsupported opinions
(and incorrect facts).
I called you on it (and
On Sun, Feb 18, 2007 at 09:51:45AM -0800, Eliezer S. Yudkowsky wrote:
As Michael Wilson pointed out, only one thing is certain when it comes
to a language choice for FAI development: If you build an FAI in
anything other than Lisp, numerous Lisp fanatics will spend the next
subjective
You might want to consider the Boo programming language for a
Python-like language on .NET.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boo_programming_language
http://boo.codehaus.org/
/offtopic
-Jey Kottalam
On 2/18/07, Aki Iskandar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Chuck, I looked at Cobra yesterday, and I like
One reason for picking a language more powerful than the run-of-the-mill
imperative ones (of which virtually all the ones mentioned so far are just
different flavors) is that the can give you access to different paradigms
that will enhance your view of how an AGI should work internally.
Very
Chuck Esterbrook wrote:
On 2/18/07, Eliezer S. Yudkowsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Mark Waser wrote:
...
I find C++ overly complex while simultaneously lacking well known
productivity boosters including:
* garbage collection
* language level bounds checking
* contracts
* reflection /
On 2/18/07, Charles D Hixson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Chuck Esterbrook wrote:
On 2/18/07, Eliezer S. Yudkowsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Mark Waser wrote:
...
I find C++ overly complex while simultaneously lacking well known
productivity boosters including:
* garbage collection
* language
On 2/18/07, Chuck Esterbrook [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You are absolutely...correct. I think the utility of existing database
servers is very underappreciated in academia and many AI researchers
are from academia or working on academia style projects (gov't
research grants or work to support
I've seen the programming language merry-go-round on AI related forums too
many times to become embroiled, but for what it's worth I'm using C# /
.NET. My master plan for robotic domination involves using Mono.
-
This list is sponsored by AGIRI: http://www.agiri.org/email
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The idea is a language that looks a lot more like the signals-and-systems
mindset of cybernetics than the logic-based one of McCarthy and early AI.
As I've pointed out before in this venue, AGI is a hard enough task that
it
makes sense to do some serious work on tools-to-build-the-tools. As
On 2/18/07, Mark Waser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
personal toolbox). The programmers who are ending up out of work are the
ones who keep re-inventing the wheel over and over again.
Thinking about the amount of redundant (wasted) effort involved with
starting from scratch on an AI project, I
Eugen Leitl wrote:
On Sun, Feb 18, 2007 at 12:40:03AM -0800, Samantha Atkins wrote:
Really? I question whether you can get anywhere near the same level of
reflection and true data - code equivalence in any other standard
language. I would think this capability might be very important
Mark Waser wrote:
And, from a practical programmatic way of having code generate code,
those are the only two ways. The way you mentioned - a text file -
you still have to call the compiler (which you can do through the
above namespaces), but then you still have to bring the dll into the
Eliezer S. Yudkowsky wrote:
If you know in advance what code you plan on writing, choosing a
language should not be a big deal. This is as true of AI as any other
programming task.
It is still a big deal. You want to chose a language that allows you to
express your intent as concisely and
Aki Iskandar wrote:
Hello -
I'm new on this email list. I'm very interested in AI / AGI - but do
not have any formal background at all. I do have a degree in Finance,
and have been a professional consultant / developer for the last 9
years (including having worked at Microsoft for almost
BTW: I really loved Haskell when I used it in the 90's, and if there
were a rip-roaring fast SMP Haskell implementation with an effective
customizable garbage collector, Novamente would probably be written in
Haskell.
But, there is not, and so Novamente is written in C++ ... but
In Abraham Lincoln's case I think it makes sense, since he already
knows how he'll use the axe. I doubt that most people who are worrying
about which language they'll use actually have a good idea of how to
actually design an AGI...
You can spend all the time you want sharpening your axes,
Thanks Ben - this makes complete sense, and you've answered my
question precisely.
~Aki
On 19-Feb-07, at 1:03 AM, Ben Goertzel wrote:
Aki Iskandar wrote:
Hello -
I'm new on this email list. I'm very interested in AI / AGI - but
do not have any formal background at all. I do have a
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