Re: [agi] Within-cell computation in biological neural systems??
The jury is very much out Phillip. Eliezer goes too far in saying it's a myth perpetuated by computer scientists. They use the simplest representations they know to exist in their models for purposes of parsimony. It's hard to fault them for being rigorous in this respect. But neurons are surely far more complex than this. The majority of computation may well occur within the nonlinear bursting dynamics of dendrites. Just as an example, a new type of neuron has recently been discovered that can hold a steady state of firing in isolation, apply current, rate increases and remains stable at a new threshold. It's dynamically settable, which blows away all standard Integrate Fire models. We're just scratching the surface of an enormous iceberg. If you're trying to build some useful index of brain power based on number of neurons (or even synapses), give up and wait 30 years at least. -Brad --- To unsubscribe, change your address, or temporarily deactivate your subscription, please go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[agi] Futurological speculations
Hi all, Here's another essay from the Ben Goertzel spare-time essay-writing factory that seems to be very active these last few months. This one is related to AGI but more in the futurological vein than the currently practical vein. It's called Encouraging a Positive Transcension: AI Buddha versus AI Big Brother, Voluntary Joyous Growth, the Tao of Speciecide, and Other Issues in Transhumanist Ethical Philosophy You can find it at http://www.goertzel.org/papers/PositiveTranscension.htm It was about 27 pages in Word -- not nearly enough to say everything I have to say about the topic, so it's a bit too terse in parts; but alas, other duties call... It's a first draft, and there may be some bits and pieces of thinking in there that appealed to me at the time of writing but won't appeal to me next week. But the broad outlines of the ideas presented there have been in my head for a long time, and some of them have popped up here and there in discussions on this list. -- Ben G --- To unsubscribe, change your address, or temporarily deactivate your subscription, please go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [agi] Within-cell computation in biological neural systems??
From: Brad Wyble [EMAIL PROTECTED] The jury is very much out Phillip. Eliezer goes too far in saying it's a myth perpetuated by computer scientists. They use the simplest representations they know to exist in their models for purposes of parsimony. It's hard to fault them for being rigorous in this respect. Uploading is not the same as using ANNs to emulate the brain, it has more to do with computational neuroscience and realistic modeling. But neurons are surely far more complex than this. The majority of computation may well occur within the nonlinear bursting dynamics of dendrites. Nonlinear dendritic integration can be accurately captured by the comparmental model which divides dendrites into small sections with ion channels and other internal reaction mechanisms. This is the most accurate level of modeling. It may be possible to simplify this model with machine learning techniques and without significant loss in accuracy. Just as an example, a new type of neuron has recently been discovered that can hold a steady state of firing in isolation, apply current, rate increases and remains stable at a new threshold. It's dynamically settable, which blows away all standard Integrate Fire models. I don't know the exact mechanisms that give rise to that type of neurons, but the comparmental model should be able to cover this. What is needed is a large-scale database of neuronal characteristics (automation). We're just scratching the surface of an enormous iceberg. If you're trying to build some useful index of brain power based on number of neurons (or even synapses), give up and wait 30 years at least. Intra-cellular signal processing is the most problematic area, which requires proteomics to fully understand. I don't know... YKY Find what you are looking for with the Lycos Yellow Pages http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10 --- To unsubscribe, change your address, or temporarily deactivate your subscription, please go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
