Re: DIS: Re: BUS: I register

2014-04-24 Thread Alex Smith
On Thu, 2014-04-24 at 04:52 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote: On Thu, 24 Apr 2014, Alex Smith wrote: On Wed, 23/4/14, Jonathan Rouillard jonathan.rouill...@gmail.com wrote: Well, it looks like hazing isn't a crime anymore so... I CFJ on x1122334455, putting forth tradition as my main

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: I register

2014-04-24 Thread Alex Smith
On Thu, 2014-04-24 at 09:32 -0400, x1122334455 wrote: On 4/23/14 at 4:11pm, Jonathan Rouillard jonathan.rouill...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 3:34 PM, x1122334455 wrote: I register Well, it looks like hazing isn't a crime anymore so... I CFJ on x1122334455, putting

DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Distribution of Proposals 7641-7642

2014-05-06 Thread Alex Smith
On Mon, 5/5/14, Aaron Goldfein aarongoldf...@gmail.com wrote: Num    Author     AI   Title 7641   scshunt     2   Relative Months FOR 7642   Fool        3   On breaking the game AGAINST If possible, I make the same votes. -- ais523

DIS: Re: BUS: Proposal: Mandatory Identification

2014-05-06 Thread Alex Smith
On Tue, 2014-05-06 at 17:42 -0400, Henri Bouchard wrote: I propose the following: -- Proposal: Mandatory Identification Create a new Rule, titled Mandatory Identification: When publishing a message to the fora,

Re: DIS: Proposal: Mandatory Identification

2014-05-06 Thread Alex Smith
On Tue, 2014-05-06 at 18:04 -0400, Henri Bouchard wrote: Aha, that's an automatic signature, right? I'll work around that. I actually type it by hand, but it follows the Usenet/email conventions for signatures: two hyphens and a space to mark the start of the signature block, so that other

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Corrected Distribution of Proposals 7643-7658

2014-05-16 Thread Alex Smith
On Tue, 13/5/14, omd c.ome...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 6:28 AM, Alex Smith ais...@bham.ac.uk wrote: 7649   scshunt                  2   I always thought these already ratifie AGAINST; this doesn't allow for implicit switches, and so I think it might cause all the old CFJs

Re: DIS: To All: The Identification Crisis

2014-06-12 Thread Alex Smith
On Sat, 2014-06-07 at 18:29 -0400, Henri Bouchard wrote: Who actually thinks Mandatory Identification is a good idea? When I was proposing it, I didn't think it would be such a big problem for everybody, but now it seems we should just repeal it. What do you think? I supported it precisely

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Judicial Case: The Three Crimes of Promotor Scshunt

2014-06-20 Thread Alex Smith
On Thu, 2014-06-19 at 20:03 -0400, Sean Hunt wrote: On Jun 19, 2014 5:19 PM, Jonathan Rouillard jonathan.rouill...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 6:13 PM, Henri Bouchard henrib...@gmail.com wrote: By the way, what does H stand for in H. Henri? -Henri It stands for

Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Referee] This Week's Penalties

2014-06-21 Thread Alex Smith
On Sun, 2014-06-22 at 01:44 -0400, Sean Hunt wrote: On Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 1:38 AM, Alex Smith ais...@bham.ac.uk wrote: I issue a Green Card to scshunt, for breaching rule 2143 by publishing an inaccurate Scorekeepor report. Green, because the mistake

Re: DIS: now what

2014-06-30 Thread Alex Smith
On Mon, 2014-06-30 at 12:54 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote: ok now I've done my offical duties and I'm sitting bored in three days of meetings so I want to do something here, but nothing's going on... what next... I had an idea for a new gameplay/economy thing I wanted to proto, but I don't have

Re: DIS: now what

2014-06-30 Thread Alex Smith
On Mon, 2014-06-30 at 13:28 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote: On Mon, 30 Jun 2014, Alex Smith wrote: Are you interested in working out the details of something like this? Happy to try. But main issue I've had in the past is coming up with specific abilities that people actually want to use. Do

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Purge

2014-07-20 Thread Alex Smith
On Thu, 2014-07-17 at 19:34 -0500, Chester Mealer wrote: If I can object to a single name, I object to my own (cdm014), otherwise I object to the entire motion. If the motion works at all, then you can object to single names in it, because there's no deregister-multiple-people-at-once

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Judgement of CFJ 3424

2014-08-05 Thread Alex Smith
On Mon, 2014-08-04 at 21:29 -0400, Tanner Swett wrote: Gratuitous arguments for CFJ 3424: I would have considered adoption index of a rule to be an unambiguous synonym of power of a rule, since there's no other actual thing that it could refer to. (I guess it could refer to a rule's

DIS: Re: OFF: [Referee] This Week's Penalties

2014-08-24 Thread Alex Smith
On Sun, 2014-08-24 at 05:15 +0100, Alex Smith wrote: There are six other offices; two are empty, Henri holds the other four, and all are missing reports. My report crossed with Henri's (meaning that I guess I've violated the rules in a trivial manner), but this means that we now have six vacant

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Stepping Down

2014-08-28 Thread Alex Smith
On Mon, 2009-11-09 at 10:53 -0800, Kerim Aydin wrote: On Mon, 9 Nov 2009, comex wrote: Proposal: Citrine Card Repeal (AI=2) Hey hey hey, the previous citrine repeals were more than just cards! Not gonna get my vote on some without the whole... Also, just a reflection. When we wrote the

DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Deputy IADoP] Metareport

2014-08-30 Thread Alex Smith
On Fri, 2014-08-29 at 09:28 -0400, Tanner Swett wrote: I intend, without objection, to ratify the document consisting of the Office and Holder columns of the table in the below report. They're self-ratifying (R1006 defines officeholder as a switch; why isn't it officeholdor, come to think of

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Stepping Down

2014-08-30 Thread Alex Smith
On Thu, 2014-08-28 at 09:12 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote: On Thu, 28 Aug 2014, Alex Smith wrote: Time to reflect on this again. November 2009 was a time of widespread belief that the game was stalling, potentially stopping. It had pagesful of messages every day, but the economy was collapsing

DIS: Re: OFF: [Deputy IADoP] Metareport

2014-08-30 Thread Alex Smith
On Thu, 2014-08-28 at 17:40 -0400, Tanner Swett wrote: + The Assessor currently seems to have no report; this is the date that e most recently resolved a proposal. The Scorekeepor also has no report, because we undefined recordkeepor without noticing; nowadays it only has an effect on

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Proposal: Deputisation clarification

2014-09-01 Thread Alex Smith
On Sun, 2014-08-31 at 16:59 -0600, Sprocklem wrote: On 2014-08-31 16:53, Luis Ressel wrote: Remark: As I noted on the -discussion list, I think the replacement text represents the current situation anyway. I believe the rule was changed to how it is currently with the intention that the

DIS: Re: OFF: [Deputy Promotor] Distribution of Proposal 7690

2014-09-01 Thread Alex Smith
On Mon, 2014-09-01 at 23:14 +0100, Luis Ressel wrote: I hereby deputise for the Promotor to distribute each listed proposal, initiating the Agoran Decision of whether to adopt it. For this decision, the eligible voters are the active players at the time of this distribution, the vote

Re: DIS: What is it? Dragons?

2014-09-03 Thread Alex Smith
On Wed, 2014-09-03 at 23:14 +0100, Luis Ressel wrote: I really like this RPG idea, but I think the two previous proposals were too vague. I've made an attempt at rewriting them. The text needs some proofreading, as this is my first attempt at a more complex ruleset (and not being a native

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Oh for god's sake, only one person bothers to reply to a dictatorship scam?

2014-09-30 Thread Alex Smith
On Tue, 2014-09-30 at 14:00 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote: Of if you prefer older history, Lindrum judged 3 minutes or so as long enough to provide for reasonable public review of the Lindrum World judgement, before e declared that it had worked. -G. Was that genuinely believed to have worked,

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Oh for god's sake, only one person bothers to reply to a dictatorship scam?

2014-09-30 Thread Alex Smith
On Tue, 2014-09-30 at 18:33 -0400, omd wrote: Those who aren't won't, but they might take a week or month to show up, or never do so at all before being deregistered for inactivity... Counterargument: Sprocklem is probably not actively reading the lists. I'd explictly attempted to draw eir

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Oh for god's sake, only one person bothers to reply to a dictatorship scam?

2014-09-30 Thread Alex Smith
On Tue, 2014-09-30 at 18:47 -0400, omd wrote: Another counterargument: G. posted a message to Agora within the 4 day limit, but not between when you posted the intent and when you tried to resolve it. It's entirely possible e only started actively reading Agora as a result of the recent

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [deputy Arbitor] CFJ 3429 assigned to G.

2014-10-03 Thread Alex Smith
On Thu, 2014-10-02 at 20:28 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote: First, I put explicitly high standards on defining the process in this case, precisely because it is part of R105, precisely *not* allowing informality. I would not have this high a standard for any other process. Even though I should

DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [deputy Arbitor] CFJ 3429 assigned to G.

2014-10-03 Thread Alex Smith
On Fri, 2014-10-03 at 09:23 -0400, Jonathan Rouillard wrote: I support. I don't know if omd's scam attempt actually succeeded, but saying it didn't because I hereby provide public notice that I intend to do X != I intend, with Notice, to do X feels like a pretty weak claim to me as well. If

DIS: Re: BUS: As the current judgement stands...

2014-10-04 Thread Alex Smith
On Sat, 2014-10-04 at 15:00 -0400, omd wrote: I intend to deputise for the Dungeon Master to publish eir report. That was probably a strategic mistake, given that your main hope of this working would be for me to forget. (I hadn't forgotten, though.) -- ais523 DM

Re: DIS: No more Rights means no informal process?

2014-10-10 Thread Alex Smith
, accomplish things merely by being an announcement. Our by announcement definitions are one way to do this, but not the only way. Imagine if I published I inform Agora's players that my name is Alex Smith.. This has no rules-defined effect; but it isn't the ISIDTID fallacy, because the mere fact

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Ribbons, 2010 version

2014-10-11 Thread Alex Smith
On Sat, 2014-10-11 at 17:09 +0200, James Beirne wrote: White (W): A player qualifies for a White Ribbon if e has never previously owned a White Ribbon (including under previous rulesets). A player who has been registered for at least 30 days and has never caused another person to gain a

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Referee] Counterscam

2014-10-11 Thread Alex Smith
On Sat, 2014-10-11 at 09:26 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote: On Sat, 11 Oct 2014, Alex Smith wrote: Using the mechanism defined in rule 2437, I cause rule 2437 to set its own text to the following: Fails under current standing judgement. No review has taken place. Sure, but I think your

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Referee] Counterscam

2014-10-11 Thread Alex Smith
On Sat, 2014-10-11 at 09:28 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote: Specifically, no rules-defined review process. You tried to do this by announcement. By announcement has no review. -G. To argue the point rather than the procedure, what makes a proposal have any more review than an announcement that

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Referee] Counterscam

2014-10-11 Thread Alex Smith
On Sat, 2014-10-11 at 09:53 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote: If the Proposal text changed mid-stream, then there is more wrong with the process. For example, the voting notice that started the voting (R107) no longer refers to the matter being decided. In that case, the text might be R105 ambiguous

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Referee] Counterscam

2014-10-11 Thread Alex Smith
On Sat, 2014-10-11 at 10:09 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote: On Sat, 11 Oct 2014, Alex Smith wrote: What makes this different from processes that aren't written down in the rules? Which ones? Examples would be really helpful! Especially examples of what happens when these processes are CFJ'd

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Referee] Counterscam

2014-10-11 Thread Alex Smith
On Sat, 2014-10-11 at 10:41 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote: Looking at that one, the only fail/success mechanism *is* by announcement, so that's the only basis for judging whether a judicial assignment succeeds. The requirement for the Arbitor to have further procedure to ensure fairness is a

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Referee] Counterscam

2014-10-11 Thread Alex Smith
On Sat, 2014-10-11 at 11:07 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote: If a Rule actually said you could do a change With Notice, than we'd ask how much Notice was enough, and ask per instance if there was anything wrong with it. In fact, if Induction still existed, I would opine that By Announcement means

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Referee] Counterscam

2014-10-11 Thread Alex Smith
On Sat, 2014-10-11 at 11:44 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote: Mine is more: A rule says do X to accomplish Z. A higher rule says things like X are not sufficient to accomplish Z. Therefore you can't do X to accomplish Z. Now you would say but I invented X+Y, which is actually *better* than X!

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Brief for Moot on CFJ 3429

2014-10-14 Thread Alex Smith
On Tue, 2014-10-14 at 16:46 +, Eritivus wrote: I could probably be easily convinced to retract this Brief. I think that the fact that (this part of) omd's scam became generally accepted can be explained by the fact that equivocation can be difficult to detect, especially if one sense is

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: A little briefer than hoped

2014-10-20 Thread Alex Smith
On Mon, 2014-10-20 at 06:45 +, Eritivus wrote: Note: I have not submitted a Brief yet, because I was deregistered when I attempted to do so. I'm pondering whether to resubmit as is, expand, or abandon. From my point of view, opinions are what's important, and the moot process is a

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Brief for Moot on CFJ 3429

2014-10-22 Thread Alex Smith
On Wed, 2014-10-22 at 20:02 -0400, omd wrote: It's from Rule 2141: A rule is a type of instrument with the capacity to govern the game generally, and is always taking effect. Oh right. I remember disliking that wording even when it was added, but I got outvoted. Just out of

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Proposal: Fast Track

2014-10-23 Thread Alex Smith
On Thu, 2014-10-23 at 19:51 +, Eritivus wrote: I guess the power of rules enacted by illicit fast track ratification actually can't be more than 3, since the fast track rule has power 3? So not as worrisome as I thought. A Power-3 rule can do anything, though, because the Power

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: A little briefer than hoped

2014-10-23 Thread Alex Smith
On Thu, 2014-10-23 at 17:12 -0400, omd wrote: With the house rules interpretation I think there is an implicit assumption that the judgement must actually have been made in good faith, following a reasonable process, etc. Your statement here suggests that a judgement would have to be taken as

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: A little briefer than hoped

2014-10-23 Thread Alex Smith
On Thu, 2014-10-23 at 14:37 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote: By the way, my own way of monkeying with the Moot process is just failing to resolve it within the 14 day Notice dependency window. It's not clear at all what happens then! It may leave the case in permanent limbo... that's bad rule

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: A little briefer than hoped

2014-10-23 Thread Alex Smith
On Thu, 2014-10-23 at 15:06 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote: I'm interested in how trapped it makes the Case itself, though, as a mechanism. Can't be resolved after 14 days, but can't be restarted either. A long time ago, I went to quite a bit of effort to set up a CFJ that nobody was obligated to

Re: DIS: Re: OFF: Re: BUS: Province?

2014-10-24 Thread Alex Smith
On Fri, 2014-10-24 at 09:52 -0400, Tanner Swett wrote: On Oct 24, 2014, at 9:43 AM, Alex Smith wrote: On Fri, 2014-10-24 at 09:36 -0400, Tanner Swett wrote: I create a Province character called Redgroat. Redgroat looks around. The Rulekeepor ruled that you couldn't do that because

DIS: Re: BUS: voting and status

2014-10-24 Thread Alex Smith
On Fri, 2014-10-24 at 12:03 -0500, Chester Mealer wrote: I deregister and vote yes on all matters which I am able. Chester Mealer Were you a player /before/ doing that? If not, this is hilarious. If yes, this is also hilarious, but for a different reason. -- ais523

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Deputy Promotor] Distribution of Proposals 7698-7710

2014-10-26 Thread Alex Smith
On Sun, 2014-10-26 at 12:40 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote: On Sun, 26 Oct 2014, omd wrote: On Sun, Oct 26, 2014 at 12:12 PM, Kerim Aydin ke...@u.washington.edu wrote: 7706 3 omd Fast Track AGAINST. For some reason I don't trust omd with rapidly-adopted proposals right now.

Re: DIS: Protos: bring back contracts!

2014-10-27 Thread Alex Smith
On Mon, 2014-10-27 at 06:24 +, Eritivus wrote: Why were contracts repealed? So far all I've discovered is that the repeal occurred during a lull in Feb 2010. Contracts was the obvious answer to a question I had about an idea, so I was pleasantly surprised to see your proposal. I'm FOR

Re: DIS: Protos: bring back contracts!

2014-10-27 Thread Alex Smith
On Mon, 2014-10-27 at 08:16 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote: One of the biggest issues with Economies since the Big One fell apart in 2003 is that no one seems to want to pay to distribute Proposals anymore - there's been a strong ethos against that for years now that didn't used to exist. Without

Re: DIS: Protos: bring back contracts!

2014-10-27 Thread Alex Smith
On Mon, 2014-10-27 at 09:37 -0600, Sprocklem wrote: I can't think of any in Agora that is really high value to back it. It might be interesting to tie the economic system into The Province's economy, where you would need to pay in order to accomplish certain things in the sub-game. Things

Re: DIS: Protos: bring back contracts!

2014-10-27 Thread Alex Smith
On Mon, 2014-10-27 at 09:59 -0600, Sprocklem wrote: On 2014-10-27 09:47, Alex Smith wrote: * Wins / assets that let you win; * Votes on proposals (both over a time period, and on a single proposal); * The ability to disable/penalise other players. [I

Re: DIS: Protos: bring back contracts!

2014-10-27 Thread Alex Smith
On Mon, 2014-10-27 at 09:14 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote: On Mon, 27 Oct 2014, Alex Smith wrote: Things that have traditionally consistently been of high economic value: For traditionally defined since 2007. Before 2007, the three pillars were (1) the ability to distribute proposals, (2

Re: DIS: Re: OFF: Re: BUS: Province?

2014-10-27 Thread Alex Smith
On Mon, 2014-10-27 at 12:59 -0400, Benjamin Schultz wrote: Is the current breakage due to competing candidate gamestates for R2437? If so, would unambiguously changing that Rule resolve the situation enough? Yes, and almost (you also need to account for the possibility that the rule doesn't

Re: DIS: Protos: bring back contracts!

2014-10-27 Thread Alex Smith
On Mon, 2014-10-27 at 09:57 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote: That's a great idea (I'm assuming you mean basically pay to keep your contracts in play for whatever we define is in play?). This can have a double trading as you could trade Contracts entire as well as whatever currencies are used to pay

Re: DIS: Re: OFF: State of the Province of Agora

2014-11-01 Thread Alex Smith
On Sat, 2014-11-01 at 15:30 -0700, Eritivus wrote: Sorry, what errors exactly? The ones where the rules letting non-DMs act were never created. My understanding would have been that, as DM, it would be legal for you to ratify the Warrigal's hypothetical changes. It's ambiguous whether it's

DIS: Re: OFF: Rulekeepor's notes on Proposals 7698-7710

2014-11-05 Thread Alex Smith
On Sun, 2014-11-02 at 21:45 -0500, omd wrote: Ditto - the previous proposal added a Scorekeeper but not a Scorekeepor. I was going to call the variations in spelling or dialect rule on you, but it seems to have been repealed (or at least, I can't find it in the ruleset). That might make quite a

Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Deputy Tailor] The new tailor's is offering an opening discount!

2014-11-09 Thread Alex Smith
On Sun, 2014-11-09 at 11:28 -0700, Sprocklem wrote: On 2014-11-09 01:16, Alex Smith wrote: ROGCBMUVIPLWK araneaC W Sprocklem C 04/11/14 aranea+W (new to Ribbons) 04/11/14 aranea+C (deputizing for Tailor) 06/11/14 Sprocklem +W (new to Ribbons

DIS: Re: OFF: [Tailor] Shamelessly stolen report

2014-11-14 Thread Alex Smith
On Fri, 2014-11-14 at 23:03 +0100, Luis Ressel wrote: [Text shamelessly stolen from ais523. @ais523, weren't you planning to take over this office?] As far as I know, I can't until you miss a report, or you resign in a week where you haven't published the report yet. I was waiting to see if

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: testing some informal arragements

2014-11-17 Thread Alex Smith
On Mon, 2014-11-17 at 13:35 -0800, Kerim Aydin wrote: I just realized that voting may be a poor test case, as it could be argued (barely, but perhaps within the bounds of reason) that these amount to Endorsements. If that works as an endorsement, then my attempts to vote on proposals that

DIS: Proto: Organizations

2014-11-19 Thread Alex Smith
So, recently, there's been a bunch of people (including me) deciding that we need some substitute for Contracts/Promises, and a bunch of people (including me) deciding that we need an economy. So this is my proposal for a proposal for Organizations, which are designed to work as a Contract

Re: DIS: Proto: Organizations

2014-11-19 Thread Alex Smith
On Wed, 2014-11-19 at 10:23 -0800, Kerim Aydin wrote: On Wed, 19 Nov 2014, Alex Smith wrote: The Secretary is an office, responsible for tracking Organizations and related gamestate. The duties of the Secretary are described elsewhere. Suggest describing the minimal Report here, up top

Re: DIS: Proto: Organizations

2014-11-19 Thread Alex Smith
On Wed, 2014-11-19 at 10:30 -0800, Kerim Aydin wrote: On Wed, 19 Nov 2014, Alex Smith wrote: There's been quite a bit of effort in this to shut down possible scams pre-emptively; in particular, I've tried my best to prevent anything similar to Fool's attempted scam, and any scams along

Re: DIS: Proto: Organizations

2014-11-19 Thread Alex Smith
On Wed, 2014-11-19 at 10:55 -0800, Kerim Aydin wrote: I should note: I'm thinking of this broadly, and wondering if we should place a generic definition of random choice back in the ruleset so defining random (and penalties for cheating random) doesn't have to fall on your Org rules. I'd

Re: DIS: Proto: Organizations

2014-11-20 Thread Alex Smith
On Wed, 2014-11-19 at 16:07 -0500, omd wrote: Does Awarding a Medal count as a modification to an Organization? It's not actually relevant. The reason I used Appropriate/Inappropriate rather than some previously defined term was so that for changes where appropriateness wasn't specifically

Re: DIS: making semi-trusted dice?

2014-11-20 Thread Alex Smith
On Thu, 2014-11-20 at 11:02 -0800, Kerim Aydin wrote: Hey folks, If I put up a (in programming sense trivial) dice server tailored to Agoran needs, are there folks out there who know a little bit about security who can advise on a way it can be trusted? (E.g. Hash of the source code

Re: DIS: Proto: Organizations

2014-12-01 Thread Alex Smith
On Wed, 2014-11-19 at 10:30 -0800, Kerim Aydin wrote: On Wed, 19 Nov 2014, Alex Smith wrote: There's been quite a bit of effort in this to shut down possible scams pre-emptively; in particular, I've tried my best to prevent anything similar to Fool's attempted scam, and any scams along

Re: DIS: Proto: Organizations

2014-12-01 Thread Alex Smith
On Mon, 2014-12-01 at 14:36 -0800, Kerim Aydin wrote: On Mon, 1 Dec 2014, Alex Smith wrote: Anyway, the upshot of all this is that despite looking reasonable, the current definition of randomness simply doesn't work. Which definition? The non-existent one currently not in the rules

Re: DIS: Proto: Organizations

2014-12-01 Thread Alex Smith
On Mon, 2014-12-01 at 15:08 -0800, Kerim Aydin wrote: This is orthogonal to whether we can *prove* that a roll was fair versus having being interfered with (by rejecting certain outcomes, which doesn't fit my definition of fair), or what happens with delays (which is why I proposed a fix -

Re: DIS: Proto: Organizations

2014-12-02 Thread Alex Smith
On Mon, 2014-12-01 at 17:09 -0800, Kerim Aydin wrote: Ok, the list. Unfair is shorthand for wrong probability. [snip] OK, I think I understand your point better now. The argument is that if there's a possibility that someone might do anything to interfere with the result, the entire process

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] 2015's first proposals

2015-01-20 Thread Alex Smith
On Tue, 2015-01-20 at 13:28 -0800, Kerim Aydin wrote: 7730* Henri 1.0 Monthly Deportation I just noticed that this proposal is broken, as Citizenship is Secured-3 (R869). The proposal is only broken if the ruleset's already broken; it's telling the Registrar to attempt to use

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] 2015's first proposals

2015-01-20 Thread Alex Smith
On Tue, 2015-01-20 at 14:01 -0800, Kerim Aydin wrote: On Tue, 20 Jan 2015, Alex Smith wrote: On Tue, 2015-01-20 at 13:28 -0800, Kerim Aydin wrote: 7730* Henri 1.0 Monthly Deportation I just noticed that this proposal is broken, as Citizenship is Secured-3 (R869

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] 2015's first proposals

2015-01-20 Thread Alex Smith
On Wed, 2015-01-21 at 08:39 +0100, Jonatan Kilhamn wrote: As an aside to that last bit: the corresponding principle to CAN implies CANNOT for everyone else would be SHALL implies NEED NOT for everyone else? SHALL and SHALL NOT are opposite, but not complementary. So yeah, this is not a

DIS: Re: OFF: [Deputy Herald] The Silver Quill

2015-01-13 Thread Alex Smith
On Mon, 2015-01-12 at 10:45 -0800, Kerim Aydin wrote: This is the DISCUSSION PHASE, players are ENCOURAGED to discuss which proposals best fit the above criteria. Votes happen later. To START the DISCUSSION, please find below: (1) a Herald's SHORT LIST of influential Proposals, and

Re: DIS: Previous economic plans?

2015-02-14 Thread Alex Smith
On Sat, 2015-02-14 at 20:22 -0700, Sprocklem wrote: What happened with the discussion about economies from the bring back contracts thread a few months ago? Was it just forgotten or did everyone decide an economy wasn't worth pursuing at this point in time? Not forgotten. I was very busy

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Distribution of proposal 7733

2015-03-18 Thread Alex Smith
On Wed, 2015-03-18 at 00:33 +0100, Ørjan Johansen wrote: On Tue, 17 Mar 2015, Alex Smith wrote: 7733* Murphy 1.0 Sincere flattery You stole that idea off BlogNomic, didn't you? Oh, that explains the strange title. It's pretty much /the/ core mechanic of BlogNomic. (That said

DIS: Re: BUS: Proposal: Recess

2015-03-07 Thread Alex Smith
On Sat, 2015-03-07 at 00:48 -0500, omd wrote: Proposal: Recess (AI=3) Create a new Power-3 Rule, Recess: Let it be known that, the Players having vacated to spend more time with their other mental Constituents, Agora is in Recess. Rules to the contrary notwithstanding,

Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [IADoP] Metareport

2015-03-30 Thread Alex Smith
On Sun, 2015-03-29 at 12:02 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote: 10. HOWEVER, no one goes back and re-calls the original question; in THIS PARTICULAR case, whether omd's 3.9 days was insufficient while ais523's 4.1 days was sufficient. So the question remains unresolved. This fits with my

Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [IADoP] Metareport

2015-03-28 Thread Alex Smith
On Sat, 2015-03-28 at 06:39 -0700, Edward Murphy wrote: For the record, this dates back to the IADoP report of 2014-10-15, and was equally vague back then. A quick scan of a-b around that same time turns up an attempted scam involving the office, but nothing obviously suggesting that Rule 2437

DIS: Re: OFF: [IADoP] Metareport

2015-03-28 Thread Alex Smith
On Sat, 2015-03-28 at 05:17 -0700, Edward Murphy wrote: ~ May not exist (reason unknown) If we had a working criminal justice system, I'd consider crimming you for excessive vagueness here. (I'd identify the violated rule as 2143, and conveniently neglect to identify which paragraph.) Part of

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: registration stadjer

2015-03-25 Thread Alex Smith
On Wed, 2015-03-25 at 15:37 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote: There's always plans. We have tons of plans, just need people to start playing before we can use them. Or to put it another way, nobody's going to start playing unless people start playing :-( -- ais523

Re: DIS: What happened to Organizations?

2015-04-20 Thread Alex Smith
On Sun, 2015-04-19 at 16:41 +0200, Luis Ressel wrote: I finally got around to reading the Organizations thread from last December, which seems to have died after it dissolved into a discussion about randomness. I know stadjer was planning to revive it, but there haven't been any news from his

Re: DIS: wording question

2015-04-22 Thread Alex Smith
On Mon, 2015-04-20 at 09:24 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote: Opinions sought: how to phrase the following correctly? (in a power-3 rule) Winning is Secured, except as explicitly permitted in Erratic Rules. (does this successfully give power-1 Erratic rules the ability to define working

Re: DIS: Proto v2: Organizations

2015-05-05 Thread Alex Smith
On Fri, 2015-05-01 at 12:54 +0200, Luis Ressel wrote: or to a switch that pertains to an Organization or a pair including that Organization I probably wrote this bit originally, but this sort of wording has been implicated in at least two very high-profile scams (one in which

DIS: Re: BUS: Proposal: Slightly easier Ribbons

2015-05-05 Thread Alex Smith
On Fri, 2015-05-01 at 13:03 +0200, Luis Ressel wrote: I submit the following proposal [Only change: Add or all but one in the first line]: We tried that before. It didn't end well. -- ais523

Re: DIS: Proto v2: Organizations

2015-05-05 Thread Alex Smith
On Fri, 2015-05-01 at 11:02 -0400, Sean Hunt wrote: On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 6:54 AM, Luis Ressel ara...@aixah.de wrote: Title: Organizations AI: 3 Author: ais523 Co-Authors: aranea INEFFECTIVE, see Rule 2350: The author (syn. proposer) of a proposal is the person who submitted

DIS: Re: BUS: Proto: Domains, Interpretation, Precedence Reform, Fixes

2015-05-13 Thread Alex Smith
On Wed, 2015-05-13 at 17:31 -0400, Sean Hunt wrote: 3. A Rule with an ID number takes precedence over a Rule with a lesser ID number. Why are you reversing the ID number precedence rule? (In particular, what interaction are you expecting to change?) Rules with lower numbers tend

Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] CFJ 3447 assigned to scshunt

2015-05-18 Thread Alex Smith
On Sun, 2015-05-17 at 18:35 -0400, Sean Hunt wrote: On May 18, 2015 07:28, Kerim Aydin ke...@u.washington.edu wrote: Statement: aranea won the game. Does anyone have any arguments as to why e didn't? If not, I will judge TRUE. The only potential way it didn't work, that I can think of,

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Distribution of Proposals 7747-49

2015-05-18 Thread Alex Smith
On Sun, 2015-05-17 at 16:52 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote: On Sun, 17 May 2015, Luis Ressel wrote: You, on the other hand, only wrote Proposal: [...]. I've accepted such submissions in the past, but I'm not sure if I actually have to (or even can). Furthermore, in your case, the Proto: in the

Re: BUS: Re: DIS: Proto-proto: powerful offices

2015-05-13 Thread Alex Smith
On Wed, 2015-05-13 at 12:45 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote: On Wed, 13 May 2015, Alex Smith wrote: Gray (Y): The Tailor CAN award a Gray Ribbon by announcement, unless e has done so earlier in the month. E is ENCOURAGED to award such a Ribbon in the same message in which e publishes eir monthly

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: 'Cause I deserve it

2015-05-30 Thread Alex Smith
On Sat, 2015-05-30 at 01:11 +0200, Ørjan Johansen wrote: On Fri, 29 May 2015, Alex Smith wrote: I endorse aranea. -- ais523 who has a feeling that this doesn't actually work Are you referring to endorsing for support/objection (which doesn't seem to be an Agoran decision and so

Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Tailor] Ribbons

2015-07-02 Thread Alex Smith
On Tue, 2015-06-30 at 15:32 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote: On Tue, 30 Jun 2015, Luis Ressel wrote: I award myself a Gray Ribbon. You know, renaming this game Tailor is kingmaker, don't bother really takes the interest out of this for me. I'm often surprised by what does and doesn't annoy you.

DIS: Re: BUS: Free Magenta

2015-07-02 Thread Alex Smith
On Tue, 2015-06-30 at 13:55 -0700, Gaelan Steele wrote: If another person begins to qualify for a Magenta ribbon after the sending of this message, I also give them a Magenta ribbon as long as this would not directly result in eir victory. This half doesn't work; you can't schedule future

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Trust without borders

2015-08-17 Thread Alex Smith
On Mon, 2015-08-17 at 09:27 -0400, Sean Hunt wrote: On Aug 17, 2015 9:16 AM, Tanner Swett tannersw...@gmail.com wrote: I submit the quoted proposal. —the Warrigal Unless I'm mistaken, Trust Tokens were repealed as a result of our victory. I don't think Eras are necessarily tied to

DIS: Re: OFF: [Registrar] Perfect Failure Detection

2015-08-19 Thread Alex Smith
On Wed, 2015-08-19 at 04:34 +, woggle wrote: WHEREAS the yoyo mailing list appears to have died, and WHEREAS the only way to be sure it is dead is to kill it yourself, I intend, without objection, to change the Publicity of the Public Forum at nomic at yoyo.its.monash.edu.au to

Re: DIS: Official rules?

2015-08-16 Thread Alex Smith
On Fri, 2015-08-14 at 16:00 -0400, omd wrote: - More generally, there should be a guide for new players. For inspiration, here is a 20-year-old(!) Agora Guidebook: http://agora.qoid.us/www.fysh.org/~zefram/agora/agora_vanyel0/agora/guidebook.html It's surprising how much has changed, and how

Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Registrar] Perfect Failure Detection

2015-08-19 Thread Alex Smith
On Wed, 2015-08-19 at 21:01 -0400, omd wrote: On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 8:31 PM, woggle woggl...@gmail.com wrote: I was aware of this. You may notice I failed to send the intent to agora-business. Proposal: in the announcement by which the Registrar makes that forum public is sent to all

Re: DIS: Birthday

2015-06-29 Thread Alex Smith
On Mon, 2015-06-29 at 13:01 +0100, Charles Walker wrote: Happy Birthday Agora! Just as a note to all the non-players doing this to DIS:. If you do it to BUS:, you can get a Ribbon. (You can't award yourself one, but a player can do it for you as long as the Birthday celebrations are still

DIS: Re: BUS: De-registering

2015-07-28 Thread Alex Smith
On Tue, 2015-07-28 at 16:01 +, Christopher Harrington wrote: I intend to de-register. Deregistration is by announcement, so this doesn't work; it's interpreted as a (non-binding) statement that you plan to deregister at some later date, rather than deregistering you now. You probably just

DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Deputy Prime Minister] Coronation

2015-08-10 Thread Alex Smith
On Mon, 2015-08-10 at 22:51 -0400, Sean Hunt wrote: On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 10:46 PM, Alex Smith ais...@bham.ac.uk wrote: I deputize for the Prime Minister to appoint scshunt to the office of Speaker. I award myself a Red Ribbon, a Platinum Ribbon, and an Ultraviolet Ribbon, and award

DIS: Re: BUS: Let's punish people again

2015-07-23 Thread Alex Smith
On Wed, 2015-07-22 at 16:14 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote: Create the following Rule, Currencies: // TODO: Define minimally working assets/currency transfer // rules again. Assume for now it works like you might expect. You know, I'd be (marginally) for putting this text right into the

DIS: Re: BUS: Proposal: We don't need that

2015-07-27 Thread Alex Smith
On Mon, 2015-07-27 at 03:06 -0400, Tanner Swett wrote: Proposal, AI 3, We don't need that Amend Rule 1551 Ratification to read: If an erroneous statement is made in an official report, and the error is not publicly noted within 30 days, and the erroneous statement is consistent with the

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