Re: DIS: Re: BUS: [Thesis] Agoran Offices: Should there be more of them?
Can you give us a link to that dynasty? It might be fun to read. On Fri, Sep 8, 2017 at 9:03 AM, Cuddle Beam wrote: > I had a Blognomic Dynasty themed after "Pledges" (called "Promises) and we > found useful to have that, once a Pledge (Promise) is broken, it's removed > from play. Because otherwise they're hanging around forever and ever, which > resulted to be a big nuisance in some cases. > > Could be a useful mechanic to have here too. Already got playtested, and it > was well-received. > > On Fri, Sep 8, 2017 at 12:55 AM, Owen Jacobson wrote: >> >> >> > On Sep 7, 2017, at 11:59 AM, Quazie wrote: >> > >> > I retract the quoted pledge. >> >> I’m not sure this means anything. >> >> -o >> > -- >From V.J Rada
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: [Thesis] Agoran Offices: Should there be more of them?
No, it doesn't. When e inevitably does not so modify eir agency tommorrow as required, e will still have broken the pledge. Having said that, I can't imagine anything but a green card would be appropriate. On Fri, Sep 8, 2017 at 8:55 AM, Owen Jacobson wrote: > >> On Sep 7, 2017, at 11:59 AM, Quazie wrote: >> >> I retract the quoted pledge. > > I’m not sure this means anything. > > -o > -- >From V.J Rada
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: [Thesis] Agoran Offices: Should there be more of them?
Yeah yeah apologies. The last one was unintentional because that's what I was actually doing originally and forgot to change it. This one was wrong of me. On Fri, Sep 8, 2017 at 7:13 AM, Aris Merchant wrote: > Also, V.J, stop the confusing thread titles. They're extremely > annoying, not to mention somewhat rude, and they don't work anyway. > > -Aris > > On Thu, Sep 7, 2017 at 2:10 PM, V.J Rada wrote: >> > >> I point the finger at Quazie. >> >> Fair enough, I figured this would happen. >> >> On Fri, Sep 8, 2017 at 6:25 AM, Kerim Aydin wrote: >>> >>> >>> Well, if it's two actions, and we map "I do A and B" into "I do A. I do B." >>> then it's also possible that A succeeds and B fails. >>> >>> I think it's more the general case: if there's two possible message >>> interpretations, and the two interpretations differ in legal effect, the >>> whole thing fails. So it's likely, "it's uncertain whether it's one or >>> two actions, and one versus two actions would trigger the Agency >>> differently and have a different net outcome, so it's 0 actions". >>> >>> On Thu, 7 Sep 2017, Quazie wrote: >>>> I believe Cuddle Beam would be equally satisfied if there were two actions, >>>> feeding and fanning, in either order - but i'm uncertain if e'd be equally >>>> satisfied with just a fan, or just a feed - so if the action was a single >>>> action then it would count, but if it was two actions then the ordering >>>> differential would make it have no effect, and thus likely be 0 actions? >>>> >>>> On Thu, Sep 7, 2017 at 11:28 AM Kerim Aydin wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Maybe this is helpful. The following Rule used to explicitly guide >>>> play. >>>> We repealed it, but basically when it came up in CFJ after repeal, we >>>> said "the rules are silent, but it's sensible so we can just keep >>>> playing >>>> the same way by precedent". (I don't know the actual CFJ history >>>> though). >>>> I like the way this rule explicitly defers to "the discretion of a >>>> judge": >>>> >>>> Rule 1527/3 (Power=1) >>>> Timing of Multiple Events in One Message >>>> >>>> Whenever a message contains more than one action -- such as a >>>> notification, report, or other communication -- on which the >>>> Rules place some legal significance, the actions in that >>>> message >>>> shall be taken to have been sent sequentially in the order >>>> which >>>> they appear in the message. >>>> >>>> If a message attempts to perform multiple actions >>>> simultaneously >>>> without explicitly stating a specific order for the actions, >>>> then the attempt shall be considered ambiguous and without >>>> effect if the gamestate would be substantively different for >>>> any >>>> two orderings of the actions. For the purposes of this test, >>>> the >>>> actual order the actions are performed in is not considered >>>> substantive, but other differences may, at the discretion of a >>>> judge, be considered substantive. >>>> >>>> On Thu, 7 Sep 2017, Kerim Aydin wrote: >>>> > Actually I take back that last part. >>>> > Rule text: >>>> > When a rule allows one person (the agent) to act on behalf of >>>> another >>>> > (the principal) to perform an action, that agent CAN perform >>>> the action >>>> > if it is POSSIBLE for the principal to do so >>>> > >>>> > we don't know if it's possible for Quazie fan and feed you, and I >>>> > suspect any CFJ asking the question would find IRRELEVANT, so there >>>> > wouldn't be a relevant legal determination of whether it was 1 or 2 >>>> > actions. >>>> > >>>> > What might be more iteresting is whether using the Agency to try >>>> this >>>> > uses up your daily action, if we fin
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: [Thesis] Agoran Offices: Should there be more of them?
> > On Thu, 7 Sep 2017, Cuddle Beam wrote:
>> > > > That actually makes me wonder. For example, creating a proposal
>> is arguably multiple actions: writing each
>> > > > individual letter and then posting it, for example, but the sum
>> is taken as one whole action.
>> > > > Be action A: action B and C,
>> > > >
>> > > > Is "I do action A via [Agency here]" synonymous to "I do action
>> B and C via [Agency here]"?
>> > > >
>> > > > On Thu, Sep 7, 2017 at 7:28 PM, Quazie
>> wrote:
>> > > > The only question is, is that one action or two?
>> > > >
>> > > > On Thu, Sep 7, 2017 at 10:19 AM Cuddle Beam
>> wrote:
>> > > > "Via QAZ I make Quazie fan me with a fancy palm and feed
>> me grapes"
>> > > >
>> > > > On Thu, Sep 7, 2017 at 6:46 PM, Quazie
>> wrote:
>> > > > I can break a pledge - and I honestly don't care if i'm
>> stolen from or my player is harmed
>> > > > - but it's only interesting to me if use of me is limited
>> and open - the only thing I don't
>> > > > want is someone to have unlimited use of me - I don't
>> consent to that
>> > > > On Thu, Sep 7, 2017 at 09:43 Gaelan Steele
>> wrote:
>> > > > Probably want to ban pledges too.
>> > > >
>> > > > On Sep 7, 2017, at 8:59 AM, Quazie wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > I retract the quoted pledge.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > I intend with 24 hours notice, to change the agents and powers
>> of the QAZ agency to
>> > > > be as follows:
>> > > >
>> > > > Agents: If someone is an agent to another Agency that Quazie is
>> the head of, then
>> > > > they are an Agent of this Agency as well, except for VJ Rada - e
>> is a jerk and is not
>> > > > an agent of this Agency.
>> > > >
>> > > > Powers: Perform any non-exclusive action on my behalf, one time
>> per day. Excluded
>> > > > actions include deregistring Quazie, making new Agencies, and
>> modifying Agencies.
>> > > >
>> > > > VJ Rada - why can't we just have nice things?
>> > > >
>> > > > On Thu, Sep 7, 2017 at 00:13 V.J Rada wrote:
>> > > > Agora has many offices. But are there enough? Probably not.
>> > > >
>> > > > I use QAZ to take the following action.
>> > > >
>> > > > {{I pledge the following:
>> > > > (1) I will never to revoke any intent to modify any agency
>> within the
>> > > > next month
>> > > > (2) Tomorrow, I will modify QAZ to have the title "VJ,
>> Title Boss
>> > > > (VTB)", the agents VJ Rada and the powers "perform any
>> action on my
>> > > > behalf without limitiation"
>> > > > (3)I will never for the rest of all time destroy or intend
>> to destroy
>> > > > the agency QAZ or VTB}}
>> > > >
>> > > > --
>> > > > From V.J Rada
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
--
>From V.J Rada
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [ADoP] Revised report
I direct you to CFJ 3551. On Thu, Sep 7, 2017 at 7:55 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus wrote: > No, we determined it didn’t work that way because of the games custom that it > didn’t work with old shines. > > Publius Scribonius Scholasticus > p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com > > > >> On Sep 7, 2017, at 2:21 AM, V.J Rada wrote: >> >> Because the "infinite reports" loophole still works until nichdel >> assesses my proposal fixing it, I cause myself to once again receive a >> reward of 5 shinies for the newly revised report, going up to 10 >> shinies. >> >> On Thu, Sep 7, 2017 at 4:19 PM, V.J Rada wrote: >>>> Office Holder Since Last Election Can Elect[1] >>>> - >>>> Arbitor ais523 2017-05-15 2017-05-26Y >>>> Assessornichdel 2017-06-05 2017-07-16 >>>> ADoP[3] V.J. Rada 2017-06-05 2017-06-09 >>>> Herald G.2017-09-06 2017-09-06 >>>> Prime Minister Quazie 2017-05-21 2017-09-06 >>>> Promotor Aris2016-10-21 2017-05-26 Y >>>> Referee o 2017-04-17 2017-06-09 >>>> Registrar PSS[2] 2017-04-18 2017-06-09 >>>> Regkeepor Aris2017-07-16 Never Y >>>> Reportor 2017-08-10 2017-09-06 Y >>>> Rulekeepor Gaelan 2017-05-17 2017-05-26 Y >>>> Secretary o 2016-11-06 2017-06-27 >>>> Speaker[4] ais523 2017-06-01 2014-04-21 Never >>>> Superintendent2017-09-04 2017-06-27Y >>>> Surveyoro 2017-05-08 2017-05-10 Y >>>> Tailor ais523 2017-05-17 2017-06-27 >>>> - >>>> [1] Whether an election for this position can be initiated by >>>> announcement, as per R2154(1). Note any player can initiate an >>>> election for any office with 4 Support per R2154(2). Also note that >>>> the ADoP may initiate an election whenever e feels like it. >>>> [2] Publius Scribonius Scholasticus >>>> [3] Associate Director of Personnel >>>> [4]The holding of this office is disputed and this part of the report >>>> does not self ratify. >>>> >>>> >>>> Office M[1] Report Last Published Late[2] >>>> --- >>>> ADoP[3] Offices 2017-08-21 >>>> Herald Y Patent titles 2017-08-09 >>>> Promotor Proposal pool 2017-09-02 >>>> Referee Rule violations 2017-09-05 >>>> Registrar Players, Fora 2017-09-05 >>>> Registrar Y Player history 2017-08-01! >>>> Regkeepor Regulations 2017-08-13 !!! >>>> Reportor The Agoran Newspaper2017-08-01 !!! >>>> RulekeeporShort Logical Ruleset 2017-08-25! >>>> Rulekeepor Y Full Logical Ruleset2017-08-25 >>>> Secretary OLEBaS[4] 2017-09-05 >>>> Secretary Y Charters2017-09-02 >>>> SuperintendentAgencies (incremental) 2017-08-28 >>>> Superintendent Y Agencies (Full) 2017-08-01 ! >>>> Surveyor Estates 2017-09-05 >>>> Tailor Y Ribbons 2017-08-24 >>> >>> On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 8:40 PM, V.J Rada wrote: >>>> Effective as of 4pm AEST, 9 Sep 2017. >>>> >>>>> Office Holder Since Last Election Can Elect[1] >>>>> - >>>>> Arbitor ais523 2017-05-15 2017-05-26Y >>>>> Assessornichdel 2017-06-05 2017-07-16 >>>>> ADoP[3] V.J. Rada 2017-06-05 2017-06-09 >>>>> Herald PSS[2] 2017-05-20 2017-09-06 >>>>> Prime Minister Quazie 2017-05-21 2017-09-06 >>>>> Promotor Aris2016-10-21 2017-05-26 Y >>>>> Referee o 2017-04-17 2017-06-09 >>>>> Registrar PSS[2] 2017-04-18 2017-06-09 >>>>> Regkeepor Aris2017-07-16 Never Y >>>>> Reportor 2017-08-10 2017-09-06 Y
Re: BUS: Re: DIS: Clearing up the game state
So we need to make that a CAN and add "a stamp they own". I don't have AP but someone should make and pend that. On Thu, Sep 7, 2017 at 6:10 PM, Owen Jacobson wrote: > >> On Sep 7, 2017, at 4:06 AM, Alex Smith wrote: >> >> On Thu, 2017-09-07 at 00:52 -0700, Gaelan Steele wrote: >>> The reason I have seen is public now (I made an attempt). The events >>> went down something like this, AFAIK: >> >> My reason was different, and I don't see any reason not to make it >> public (other than wanting the last Secretary's report to self-ratify). >> >> Rule 2498, as far as I can tell, doesn't do anything other than >> override rule 2471 due to outpowering it, by making it legal to attempt >> to make or cash in a Stamp. It doesn't actually give any ability or >> mechanism to do so. (Rule 2152 is clear that MAY means that performing >> the action is not a rules violation, but doesn't have any opinion on >> whether the action is possible or not; rule 2125 makes it impossible, >> as it modifies recordkeepor information, without a rule specifically >> making it possible.) > > Since I always get this wrong, I might as well ask it now: > > Is this grouping meaningfully incorrect? > > * MUST NOT, MAY NOT, SHALL NOT, ILLEGAL, PROHIBITED, NEED NOT, OPTIONAL, MAY, > MUST, SHALL, REQUIRED, and MANDATORY refer to the card-legality of an action, > for lack of a better name for the concept: they don’t constrain, but they do > define the bounds of what will draw a penalty. > > * CANNOT, IMPOSSIBLE, INEFFECTIVE, INVALID, and CAN refer to the > platonic-legality of an action: they constrain the possible actions, and the > possible states the game may visit. > > * SHOULD NOT, DISCOURAGED, DEPRECATED, SHOULD, ENCOURAGED, and RECOMMENDED > advise additional consideration before undertaking an action. > > I always get MAY and CAN crossed up, but if MAY is about penalties and CAN is > about possibilities, that would be much easier for me to remember. > > -o > -- >From V.J Rada
DIS: Proto-Proposal: Comment plz
Title: Economy time timey time
AI: 1
Make Agora's balance 200 shinies.
Amend the sentence {{Players MAY, by announcement, destroy a Stamp and
cause Agora to transfer the Stamp Value, in shinies, to em.}} in the
rules to {{Players MAY, by announcement, destroy a Stamp they own and
cause Agora to transfer the Stamp Value, in shinies, to em.}}
--
>From V.J Rada
Re: BUS: Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] CFJ 3555 assigned to grok
Another reason I want this done fast is that the speaker has 2 votes in electing the PM, which currently may be CB, which could affect the election. On Thu, Sep 7, 2017 at 12:55 PM, grok (caleb vines) wrote: > > > On Sep 6, 2017 9:55 PM, "Aris Merchant" > wrote: > > > On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 7:34 PM grok (caleb vines) > wrote: >> >> >> >> On Sep 6, 2017 9:24 PM, "Aris Merchant" >> wrote: >> >> On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 6:24 PM, Alex Smith >> wrote: >> > On Thu, 2017-08-24 at 18:13 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote: >> >> >> >> I CFJ on the following (using AP if I am a Player) and barring >> >> Publius Scribonius Scholasticus: >> >> >> >> G. and Cuddlebeam, and no one else, have won the game via >> >> tournament >> >> since July 1, 2017. >> > >> > This is CFJ 3555 and does not have a judgement reward. I assign it to >> > grok. >> >> Could someone please do something about this CFJ? It seems to be long >> overdue, and has suddenly become more important (FTR, it now >> determines who the current Regkeepor is, due to a deputization >> fiasco). >> >> -Aris >> >> >> I haven't been able to give it proper thought or more than cursory glances >> at Agora recently, and that's unlikely to change until mid September. I >> recommend the Arbitor reassign the case and the Referee assign me a card for >> failing to assign judgment. >> >> >> -grok > > You can just recuse yourself these days. > > -Aris > > > I recuse myself from CFJ 3555. > > > -grok -- >From V.J Rada
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: [Thesis] Agoran Offices: Should there be more of them?
I was thinking of calling a CFJ "VJ wins the game on the date this is judged.", judging it "TRUE" and then threatening to red card anyone who objected. But of course, CFJs are advisory and the gamestate is platonic, so I wouldn't _really_ be the winner. On Thu, Sep 7, 2017 at 5:34 PM, Owen Jacobson wrote: > >> On Sep 7, 2017, at 3:32 AM, V.J Rada wrote: >> >> Another thing I was considering doing was getting Quazie certiorari to >> whatever CFJ I please, but unfortunately that gives everyone else a >> day to judge that CFJ using QAZ against my wishes. > > Careful timing with that would minimize the risk: “once per Agoran day” means > you can do an action at 11:59:59 one day, and again at 00:00:00 the following > day, a second later. > > Not that I’d endorse timing scams. > > -o > -- >From V.J Rada
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: [Thesis] Agoran Offices: Should there be more of them?
Another thing I was considering doing was getting Quazie certiorari to whatever CFJ I please, but unfortunately that gives everyone else a day to judge that CFJ using QAZ against my wishes. We can also card anyone who displeases us at will. And of course, we can get Quazie to issue us trust tokens, Shinies and stamps. We can also use him to vote twice, giving anyone who pleases 3 votes, and we can get him to pend our proposals for free. QAZ is pretty powerful stuff actually. On Thu, Sep 7, 2017 at 5:24 PM, Cuddle Beam wrote: > Proto Agency/Idea/Something: Cuddles takes your Cards for you > > Powers/text/whatever: Pay Cuddles X shinies as you perform an action that > will grant a Yellow Card to them. > > I'll take the blame for you, woo! > > On Thu, Sep 7, 2017 at 9:20 AM, Owen Jacobson wrote: >> >> >> > On Sep 7, 2017, at 3:16 AM, Gaelan Steele wrote: >> > >> > Quazie, keep in mind that pledges are a SHALL. Worst case, you get >> > carded. >> >> I am inclined to lighten the penalties for pledges made or broken through >> agencies, where I can, unless the head of the agency either clearly invited >> the breach or was grossly negligent (i.e., should have seen it coming) when >> preparing the agency. QAZ might constitute gross negligence, given how broad >> it is, but I’ve held that determination back so far. >> >> -o >> > -- >From V.J Rada
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: [Thesis] Agoran Offices: Should there be more of them?
Ugh fine. I should have skipped the pledge and done the same thing as yesterday again, which works if oerjan is right. Maybe I'll do it again tomorrow if QAZ is still a thing. Note also that "Tomorrow, I will modify QAZ to have the title "VJ, Title Boss > (VTB)", the agents VJ Rada and the powers "perform any action on my > behalf without limitiation" is actually not possible to comply with because > he can't modify it without giving 24 hours notice today. Sloppy, VJ. Sloppy. On Thu, Sep 7, 2017 at 5:20 PM, Owen Jacobson wrote: > >> On Sep 7, 2017, at 3:16 AM, Gaelan Steele wrote: >> >> Quazie, keep in mind that pledges are a SHALL. Worst case, you get carded. > > I am inclined to lighten the penalties for pledges made or broken through > agencies, where I can, unless the head of the agency either clearly invited > the breach or was grossly negligent (i.e., should have seen it coming) when > preparing the agency. QAZ might constitute gross negligence, given how broad > it is, but I’ve held that determination back so far. > > -o > -- >From V.J Rada
Re: BUS: Re: DIS: Clearing up the game state
how much is this by the way? It may be a nightmare to bookkeep every stamp for poor o. On Thu, Sep 7, 2017 at 4:59 PM, Cuddle Beam wrote: > OK, we're all stupid lol, let me fix it then : P > > I destroy all stamps and cause Agora to transfer, for each, the Stamp Value > to me, in shinies. > > > On Thu, Sep 7, 2017 at 8:57 AM, V.J Rada wrote: >> >> "e tried to have Agora transfer em the FLOATING value, not the SHINY >> value." >> >> I think you mean STAMP value :) >> >> On Thu, Sep 7, 2017 at 4:51 PM, Gaelan Steele wrote: >> > I discovered two problems with Cuddle’s attempt. The first, which I >> > believe is sufficient to make it fail, is that e tried to have Agora >> > transfer em the FLOATING value, not the SHINY value. This means that VJ got >> > his rewards. My other reason remains classified. >> > >> > I’d advise that VJ still refrain from spending his shinies until we are >> > absolutely certain that the typo failed it. >> > >> > Gaelan >> >> >> >> -- >> From V.J Rada > > -- >From V.J Rada
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Herald] Silver Quill for the Agoran Year ending on October 31, 2016
I don't think it's valid: I vividly remember that election being initiated, although never resolved. On Thu, Sep 7, 2017 at 4:57 PM, Owen Jacobson wrote: > If the Decision identified below is valid, I vote on it as follows: > >> On Sep 6, 2017, at 4:22 PM, Kerim Aydin wrote: >> >> >> >> IN CASE IT DIDN'T START: >> >> I deputize for the Herald to initiate an Agoran Decision for the Silver >> Quill 2016. >> The vote collector is the Herald and the options are any proposals adopted >> between >> November 1, 2015 and October 31, 2016 (inclusive, list below). Voting >> method is >> instant runoff. > > The following proposals, in this order: > > *7803 G. 2.0 Self-service judiciary > *7811 ais523 1.0 Winning by apathy > *7815+ Alexis, aranea3.0 Agencies > *7805 nichdel1.0 The Reportor > > -o > -- >From V.J Rada
Re: DIS: Clearing up the game state
"e tried to have Agora transfer em the FLOATING value, not the SHINY value." I think you mean STAMP value :) On Thu, Sep 7, 2017 at 4:51 PM, Gaelan Steele wrote: > I discovered two problems with Cuddle’s attempt. The first, which I believe > is sufficient to make it fail, is that e tried to have Agora transfer em the > FLOATING value, not the SHINY value. This means that VJ got his rewards. My > other reason remains classified. > > I’d advise that VJ still refrain from spending his shinies until we are > absolutely certain that the typo failed it. > > Gaelan -- >From V.J Rada
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Reward
OK, I'll hoard my possible Shinies. On Thu, Sep 7, 2017 at 4:23 PM, Owen Jacobson wrote: > On Sep 7, 2017, at 2:13 AM, V.J Rada wrote: > >> I receive a reward for my revised ADoP report. I go from 0 to 5 shinies. > > If CuddleBeam’s mass destruction of Shinies worked, then Agora had exactly > zero shinies at this time and this didn’t work. > > I’d very much appreciate if neither of you spent any shinies, but I’m barred > from taking any meaningful steps to resolve the situation, as doing so would > force me to violate a pledge. > > -o > -- >From V.J Rada
DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [ADoP] Revised report
Accepted. That column obviously doesn't self-ratify so it's not a _real_ CoE, but accepted yes. On Thu, Sep 7, 2017 at 4:10 PM, Aris Merchant wrote: > > On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 3:40 AM V.J Rada wrote: >> >> Effective as of 4pm AEST, 9 Sep 2017. >> >> > Office Holder Since Last Election Can Elect[1] >> > - >> > Arbitor ais523 2017-05-15 2017-05-26Y >> > Assessornichdel 2017-06-05 2017-07-16 >> > ADoP[3] V.J. Rada 2017-06-05 2017-06-09 >> > Herald PSS[2] 2017-05-20 2017-09-06 >> > Prime Minister Quazie 2017-05-21 2017-09-06 >> > Promotor Aris2016-10-21 2017-05-26 Y >> > Referee o 2017-04-17 2017-06-09 >> > Registrar PSS[2] 2017-04-18 2017-06-09 >> > Regkeepor Aris2017-07-16 Never Y >> > Reportor 2017-08-10 2017-09-06 Y >> > Rulekeepor Gaelan 2017-05-17 2017-05-26 Y >> > Secretary o 2016-11-06 2017-06-27 >> > Speaker[4] ais523 2017-06-01 2014-04-21 Never >> > Superintendent2017-09-04 2017-06-27Y >> > Surveyoro 2017-05-08 2017-05-10 Y >> > Tailor ais523 2017-05-17 2017-06-27 >> > - >> > [1] Whether an election for this position can be initiated by >> > announcement, as per R2154(1). Note any player can initiate an >> > election for any office with 4 Support per R2154(2). Also note that >> > the ADoP may initiate an election whenever e feels like it. >> > [2] Publius Scribonius Scholasticus >> > [3] Associate Director of Personnel >> > [4]The holding of this office is disputed and this part of the report >> > does not self ratify. >> > >> > >> > Office M[1] Report Last Published Late[2] >> > --- >> > ADoP[3] Offices 2017-08-21 >> > Herald Y Patent titles 2017-08-09 >> > Promotor Proposal pool 2017-08-14 !!! > > > CoE: I just published this on ~Saturday. It's with the distributions (in a > form supported by years of tradition). > > > -Aris > -- >From V.J Rada
DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: Initiating elections.
"I vote for whoever has the most votes for each currently open office election" FYI I'm not resolving this. On Thu, Sep 7, 2017 at 4:02 PM, V.J Rada wrote: > I announce that I am a candidate for Prime Minister and ADoP. Y'all > should vote for me, folks. > > On Thu, Sep 7, 2017 at 3:05 PM, Owen Jacobson wrote: >> >>> On Sep 6, 2017, at 2:51 AM, V.J Rada wrote: >>> >>> As the ADoP, I initiate elections for the positions of Prime Minister, >>> Herald, ADoP. and Reportor. >>> >>> I initiate the Agoran decision to determine the new Herald. The vote >>> collector is the ADoP, the quorum is 3.0, and the valid options are >>> the players (PRESENT is a valid vote). >> >> I vote for G., followed by each player other than G. to unambiguously stand >> for this office, followed by the incumbent. >> >>> I initiate the Agoran decision to determine the new Prime Minister. >>> The vote collector is the ADoP, the quorum is 3.0, and the valid >>> options are the players (PRESENT is a valid vote). >> >> I endorse the incumbent. >> >>> I initiate the Agoran decision to determine the new ADoP. The vote >>> collector is the ADoP, the quorum is 3.0, and the valid options are >>> the players (PRESENT is a valid vote). >> >> I stand for this office. It’s largely message-by-message administrivia and >> reporting, which I appear to be pretty good at, and I don’t mind the >> additional labour. >> >> I vote for myself, followed by each player other than myself to >> unambiguously stand for this office, followed by the incumbent. >> >>> I initiate the Agoran decision to determine the new Reportor. The vote >>> collector is the ADoP, the quorum is 3.0, and the valid options are >>> the players (PRESENT is a valid vote). >> >> I vote for G., followed by each player other than G. to unambiguously stand >> for this office, followed by the incumbent. >> >> -o >> > > > > -- > From V.J Rada -- >From V.J Rada
DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: Initiating elections.
I announce that I am a candidate for Prime Minister and ADoP. Y'all should vote for me, folks. On Thu, Sep 7, 2017 at 3:05 PM, Owen Jacobson wrote: > >> On Sep 6, 2017, at 2:51 AM, V.J Rada wrote: >> >> As the ADoP, I initiate elections for the positions of Prime Minister, >> Herald, ADoP. and Reportor. >> >> I initiate the Agoran decision to determine the new Herald. The vote >> collector is the ADoP, the quorum is 3.0, and the valid options are >> the players (PRESENT is a valid vote). > > I vote for G., followed by each player other than G. to unambiguously stand > for this office, followed by the incumbent. > >> I initiate the Agoran decision to determine the new Prime Minister. >> The vote collector is the ADoP, the quorum is 3.0, and the valid >> options are the players (PRESENT is a valid vote). > > I endorse the incumbent. > >> I initiate the Agoran decision to determine the new ADoP. The vote >> collector is the ADoP, the quorum is 3.0, and the valid options are >> the players (PRESENT is a valid vote). > > I stand for this office. It’s largely message-by-message administrivia and > reporting, which I appear to be pretty good at, and I don’t mind the > additional labour. > > I vote for myself, followed by each player other than myself to unambiguously > stand for this office, followed by the incumbent. > >> I initiate the Agoran decision to determine the new Reportor. The vote >> collector is the ADoP, the quorum is 3.0, and the valid options are >> the players (PRESENT is a valid vote). > > I vote for G., followed by each player other than G. to unambiguously stand > for this office, followed by the incumbent. > > -o > -- >From V.J Rada
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: humble agoran farmer cashes in your stamps
I pledge not to reveal or exploit the information without the consent of Gaelan. On Thu, Sep 7, 2017 at 3:55 PM, Gaelan Steele wrote: > Good enough. I’ll email you in a second. I’m probably being too careful here, > but just in case: let it be known that I possess the ideas contained in the > plaintext of the SHA512 hash > deb30f5971aa4e938f0714117a969bd5fac2743b6eb295cf065c9a3e0186ba8b869a0f25474a116277d8721212ea3539fda4ef1c44d7598fbe24a56d91126301. > >> On Sep 6, 2017, at 10:42 PM, Aris Merchant >> wrote: >> >> I pledge not to reveal or exploit the information for 30 days unless I >> honestly and reasonably believe that doing so is necessary for the >> preservation of Agora. That good enough? >> >> -Aris >> >>> On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 10:39 PM, Gaelan Steele wrote: >>> This probably didn’t succeed. I will (privately) explain why to anybody who >>> pledges not to reveal or exploit the information until I do, probably after >>> the next floating value update. >>> >>> Gaelan >>> >>> On Sep 6, 2017, at 10:26 PM, Cuddle Beam wrote: >>> >>> Small re-attempt because what I just did likely didn't work: >>> >>> I destroy all stamps and cause Agora to transfer, for each, the floating >>> value to me, IN SHINIES. >>> >>> There we go. >>> >>> >>>> On Thu, Sep 7, 2017 at 7:23 AM, Cuddle Beam wrote: >>>> >>>> I destroy all stamps and cause Agora to transfer, for each, the floating >>>> value to me. >>>> >>>> R2498: "Players MAY, by announcement, destroy a Stamp and cause Agora to >>>> transfer the Stamp Value, in shinies, to em." >>>> >>>> It doesn't need to be a Stamp I own, just "a Stamp". >>> >>> >>> -- >From V.J Rada
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [ADoP] Revised report
I retract. G is the herald, accepted. On Thu, Sep 7, 2017 at 7:02 AM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus wrote: > I am not interested in fighting it. > On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 16:44 V.J Rada wrote: >> >> Sorry yeah, I do accept this as true (sorry I got the rules wrong last >> night) but because PSS is interested in fighting it I call a CFJ with >> the statement "G is the Herald". He deputised for it in order to give >> champion to all the winners. Was the time period over and was PSS >> listing them in the report enough to fulfill his requirements? >> Probably not. >> >> On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 9:59 PM, Kerim Aydin >> wrote: >> > >> > >> > On Wed, 6 Sep 2017, V.J Rada wrote: >> >> Effective as of 4pm AEST, 9 Sep 2017. >> >> >> >> > Office Holder Since Last Election Can Elect[1] >> >> > - >> >> > Herald PSS[2] 2017-05-20 2017-09-06 >> > >> > CoE (again): there *was* a SHALL governing the patent title award, >> > therefore my deputisation succeed and I'm herald. >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> From V.J Rada -- >From V.J Rada
DIS: Re: BUS: Rabbons
I gained it above, w/ G's message. On Thu, Sep 7, 2017 at 12:37 AM, Alex Smith wrote: > On Wed, 2017-09-06 at 15:48 +1000, V.J Rada wrote: >> I award myself white and ultraviolet ribbons > > What's the timing on the Ultraviolet ribbon like? I can see how the > White ribbon works. Did you gain Champion within the previous week? (I > can see you reported as having it in the Herald's Report, but can't see > where you actually /gained/ it; it's pragmatic, not platonic, so merely > winning is not enough. I also don't think the report in question has > self-ratified yet.) > > -- > ais523 > Tailor -- >From V.J Rada
Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [ADoP] Revised report
Australian eastern standard time. 4pm aest = 6am gmt. On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 8:56 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus wrote: > What is AEST? > > Publius Scribonius Scholasticus > p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com > > > >> On Sep 6, 2017, at 6:40 AM, V.J Rada wrote: >> >> AEST > -- >From V.J Rada
DIS: Re: BUS: Ribbon
I also award myself a violet ribbon for deputisation. On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 8:42 PM, V.J Rada wrote: > I once again cause myself to receive an ultraviolet ribbon. > -- > From V.J Rada -- >From V.J Rada
Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Regkeepor] ACORN
It is overdue enough, it was last published 14 August by my reckoning. Sorry yeah I did notice the CoE, it was my bad taking it. I can resign the office? And you can take it then. On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 5:35 PM, Aris Merchant wrote: > First of all, I don't think it's overdue enough. Second, the reason I > haven't published lately is because there's an outstanding CoE, tied to a > judicial case that was never judged, and the report is basicly empty anyway. > Try to ask before you take offices, would you? If you actually hold this > now, I'm going to call elections. > > -Aris > > On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 12:31 AM V.J Rada wrote: >> >> I deputise for the regkeepor and publish the following. >> >> > The ACORN (Agora Nomic Code of Regulations) >> > >> > == >> > TITLE 0 >> > Contains no regulations, and is reserved for the use of the Regkeepor. >> > -- >> >> -- >> From V.J Rada -- >From V.J Rada
DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [ADoP] Metareport
I won't accept or deny this until e responds. Unrelated, are you voting on the elections other than Herald? On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 5:31 PM, Kerim Aydin wrote: > > > On Wed, 6 Sep 2017, V.J Rada wrote: >> Office Holder Since Last Election Can Elect[1] >> - >> Herald PSS[2] 2017-05-20 2015-07-02 Y > > Waiting for PSS's response if I missed em awarding champion, but to > prevent self-ratification: > > CoE: I am the Herald, via deputisation. > > > -- >From V.J Rada
DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: Initiating elections.
you can take reportor On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 5:02 PM, Kerim Aydin wrote: > > > On Wed, 6 Sep 2017, V.J Rada wrote: >> As the ADoP, I initiate elections for the positions of Prime Minister, >> Herald, ADoP. and Reportor. >> >> I initiate the Agoran decision to determine the new Herald. The vote >> collector is the ADoP, the quorum is 3.0, and the valid options are >> the players (PRESENT is a valid vote). > > I need a job. I vote for myself for Herald. > > -G. > > > > -- >From V.J Rada
DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [QAZ][ADoP] Metareport
hes weekly Rulekeepor report >> 2017-05-17 ais523 deputizes to become Tailor >> 2017-05-18 nichdel deputizes to become ADoP >> 2017-05-18 PSS publishes weekly Registrar report >> 2017-05-18 Quazie publishes monthly Superintendent report >> 2017-05-18 ais523 publishes monthly Tailor report >> 2017-05-20 PSS deputizes to become Herald >> 2017-05-20 PSS publishes monthly Herald report >> 2017-05-21 Quazie deputizes to become Prime Minister >> 2017-05-21 Aris publishes weekly Promotor report >> 2017-05-21 o publishes weekly Referee report >> 2017-05-21 Gaelan publishes monthly Rulekeepor report >> 2017-05-21 nichdel appointed to Speaker >> 2017-05-22 o publishes weekly Secretary report >> 2017-05-22 o publishes weekly Surveyor report >> 2017-05-24 nichdel publishes weekly Reportor report >> 2017-05-25 Quazie publishes weekly Superintendent report >> 2017-05-26 ais523 elected to Arbitor >> 2017-05-26 nichdel elected to Assessor >> 2017-05-26 nichdel publishes weekly ADoP report >> 2017-05-26 Aris elected to Promotor >> 2017-05-26 Gaelan elected to Rulekeepor >> 2017-05-28 PSS publishes weekly Registrar report >> 2017-05-28 Gaelan publishes monthly Rulekeepor report >> 2017-05-28 Gaelan publishes weekly Rulekeepor report >> 2017-05-29 nichdel resigns from Assessor >> 2017-05-29 nichdel resigns from ADoP >> 2017-05-29 Aris publishes weekly Promotor report >> 2017-05-29 nichdel resigns from Reportor >> 2017-05-29 nichdel resigns from Speaker >> 2017-05-31 PSS publishes monthly Registrar report >> 2017-06-01 ais523 appointed to Speaker >> 2017-06-02 o publishes weekly Referee report >> 2017-06-02 o publishes monthly Secretary report >> 2017-06-02 o publishes weekly Secretary report >> 2017-06-02 o publishes weekly Surveyor report >> 2017-06-05 Quazie deputizes to become Assessor >> 2017-06-05 Quazie deputizes to become ADoP >> 2017-06-05 PSS publishes weekly Registrar report >> 2017-06-05 Veggiekeks deputizes to become Reportor >> 2017-06-05 Veggiekeks publishes weekly Reportor report >> 2017-06-05 Quazie publishes weekly Superintendent report >> 2017-06-06 Aris publishes weekly Promotor report >> 2017-06-06 ais523 publishes monthly Tailor report >> 2017-06-09 Quazie elected to ADoP >> 2017-06-09 o elected to Referee >> 2017-06-09 PSS elected to Registrar >> 2017-06-10 Quazie publishes weekly ADoP report >> 2017-06-11 Aris publishes weekly Promotor report >> 2017-06-14 o publishes weekly Secretary report >> 2017-06-14 o publishes weekly Surveyor report >> 2017-06-14 o publishes weekly Referee report >> 2017-06-18 PSS publishes weekly Registrar report >> 2017-06-18 Veggiekeks publishes weekly Reportor report >> 2017-06-19 o publishes weekly Surveyor report >> 2017-06-19 o publishes weekly Secretary report >> 2017-06-19 o publishes weekly Referee report >> 2017-06-19 Aris publishes weekly Promotor report >> 2017-06-23 Gaelan publishes monthly Rulekeepor report >> 2017-06-23 Gaelan publishes weekly Rulekeepor report >> 2017-06-26 PSS publishes weekly Registrar report >> 2017-06-27 ais523 elected to Tailor >> 2017-06-27 PSS elected to Superintendent >> 2017-06-27 o elected to Secretary >> 2017-06-27 Quazie publishes weekly ADoP report >> 2017-06-27 o publishes weekly Referee report >> 2017-06-27 o publishes weekly Surveyor report >> 2017-06-27 o publishes weekly Secretary report >> 2017-07-01 PSS publishes monthly Superintendent report >> 2017-07-01 PSS publishes monthly Registrar report >> 2017-07-01 Aris publishes weekly Promotor report >> 2017-07-02 PSS publishes weekly Superintendent report >> 2017-07-02 PSS publishes weekly Registrar report >> 2017-07-05 o publishes monthly Secretary report >> 2017-07-06 ais523 publishes monthly Tailor report >> 2017-07-06 o publishes weekly Secretary report >> 2017-07-06 o publishes weekly Surveyor report >> 2017-07-06 o publishes weekly Referee report >> 2017-07-08 Quazie publishes weekly ADoP report >> 2017-07-10 V.J Rada deputises for the Reportor >> 2017-07-10 V.J Rada publishes weekly Newspaper >> 2017-07-14 o publishes weekly Secretary report >> 2017-07-14 o publishes weekly Referee report >> 2017-07-14 o publishes weekly Referee report >> 2017-07-14 o publishes weekly Surveyor report >> 2017-07-16 nichdel deputises for the Assessor >> 2017-07-16 Aris becomes Regkeepor by proposal 7865 >> 2017-07-18 o publishes weekly Referee report >> 2017-07-18 o publishes weekly Secretary report >> 2017-07-18 o publishes weekly Surveyor report >> 2017-07-18
DIS: Re: OFF: Initiating elections.
For the Herald, I vote PSS. For the Prime Minister, I vote for myself. For the ADoP, I vote for myself. For the Reportor, I endorse the first person to vote non-conditionally for a player. On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 4:51 PM, V.J Rada wrote: > As the ADoP, I initiate elections for the positions of Prime Minister, > Herald, ADoP. and Reportor. > > I initiate the Agoran decision to determine the new Herald. The vote > collector is the ADoP, the quorum is 3.0, and the valid options are > the players (PRESENT is a valid vote). > > I initiate the Agoran decision to determine the new Prime Minister. > The vote collector is the ADoP, the quorum is 3.0, and the valid > options are the players (PRESENT is a valid vote). > > I initiate the Agoran decision to determine the new ADoP. The vote > collector is the ADoP, the quorum is 3.0, and the valid options are > the players (PRESENT is a valid vote). > > I initiate the Agoran decision to determine the new Reportor. The vote > collector is the ADoP, the quorum is 3.0, and the valid options are > the players (PRESENT is a valid vote). > > -- > From V.J Rada -- >From V.J Rada
DIS: Re: OFF: [ADoP] Resolving Herald Election
This is not correct. The quorum was 3.0 as the most recently assessed proposal had 5 voters. The outcome is FAILED QUORUM and PSS remains Herald anyway. On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 4:36 PM, V.J Rada wrote: > I deputize for ADoP. I resolve the election for Herald. Publius > Scribonius is the winner and remains the holder of the office. The > quorum was 2.0 and the votes are as follows. > > Publius Scribonius Scholasticus: Publius Scribonius Scholasticus > As Cast: "I declare my candidacy for Herald and vote for myself." > > o: Publius Scribonius Scholasticus > As Cast: "I vote ENDORSE for the incumbent." > > Congrats PSS! > -- > From V.J Rada -- >From V.J Rada
DIS: Re: OFF: [ADoP] Prime Minister Resolution
The quorum was actually 3.0, which does not change the results.
On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 4:42 PM, V.J Rada wrote:
> The quorum was 2.0. As K was a valid vote when the election was
> initiated, e wins the election but does not become officeholder. See
> rule 2154. The method of election is instant runoff, which K won on
> the first round. The quorum is 2.0. The office of Prime Minister
> remains Quazie's at this time.
>
> In full:
>
> Aris: ais523
> As Cast: [ais523]
>
> ais523: K
> As Cast: {K, ais523} if legal, otherwise {ais523}.
>
> o.: K
> As Cast: [K, ais523, o].
>
> Publius Scribonius Scholasticus: K
> As Cast: {K, ais523, o, myself} AND LATER If my previous vote is
> invalid, I endorse ais523, supplanting my previous vote.
>
> --
> From V.J Rada
--
>From V.J Rada
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: [Prop] Not so cuddly now
>>Does it? I'm not 100% convinced that's the case, but I'm not about to provide
>>arguments at midnight if I don't have to.
You should be: if a player sends a message to a-b while the objection
stage is still ongoing, the actual deregistration can't happen.
On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 3:10 PM, V.J Rada wrote:
> and u can use qaz to pend free proposals, just sayin'. it's one of the
> pm's powers.
>
> On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 3:06 PM, grok (caleb vines)
> wrote:
>> Does it? I'm not 100% convinced that's the case, but I'm not about to
>> provide arguments at midnight if I don't have to.
>>
>>
>> -grok
>>
>>
>> On Sep 6, 2017 12:01 AM, "Gaelan Steele" wrote:
>>
>> That’s fair, although simply sending a message to a-b kills it anyway.
>>
>> Gaelan
>>
>> On Sep 5, 2017, at 10:00 PM, grok (caleb vines) wrote:
>>
>> On Sep 5, 2017 11:57 PM, "Gaelan Steele" wrote:
>>
>> I create the following proposal “Not So Cuddly Now” with AI 1 by Gaelan: {
>> diff --git a/rules/How to Join and Leave Agora b/rules/How to Join and Leave
>> Agora
>> index 4683d3d..962eb2c 100644
>> --- a/rules/How to Join and Leave Agora
>> +++ b/rules/How to Join and Leave Agora
>> @@ -66,7 +66,8 @@ text: |
>>If e does so, e CANNOT register by announcement for 30 days.
>>
>>If a player has not sent a message to a public forum in the last
>> - month, then any player CAN deregister em without objection.
>> + month, then any player CAN deregister em without objection or
>> + with 2 Agoran Consent.
>>
>>The Rules CANNOT compel non-players to act, nor compel players
>>to unduly harass non-players. A non-person CANNOT be a player,
>> }
>>
>> [This is both a legitimate proposal and an experiment. I’m happy to
>> re-submit it as a “normal” proposal if that’s what people prefer.]
>>
>>
>> I would like an exception that a player cannot be deregistered with two
>> Agoran consent if that player objects. But I understand that isn't the
>> point.
>>
>>
>> -grok
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> From V.J Rada
--
>From V.J Rada
Re: DIS: Proto: Cards are appealable: rights version
this is another version of "cards are appealable" because that didn't pass.
On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 3:09 PM, V.J Rada wrote:
> Create a power 3 rule called "Punishment is for Crimes" with the text
> {{Other rules notwithstanding, a player CANNOT be sanctioned or
> punished for an offense they did not commit, or for anything that was
> not against the rules at the time they committed it. The only
> exception to this rule is the issuance of cards by the Prime Minister,
> which can still be issued for any reason}}.
>
> --
> From V.J Rada
--
>From V.J Rada
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: [Prop] Not so cuddly now
and u can use qaz to pend free proposals, just sayin'. it's one of the
pm's powers.
On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 3:06 PM, grok (caleb vines) wrote:
> Does it? I'm not 100% convinced that's the case, but I'm not about to
> provide arguments at midnight if I don't have to.
>
>
> -grok
>
>
> On Sep 6, 2017 12:01 AM, "Gaelan Steele" wrote:
>
> That’s fair, although simply sending a message to a-b kills it anyway.
>
> Gaelan
>
> On Sep 5, 2017, at 10:00 PM, grok (caleb vines) wrote:
>
> On Sep 5, 2017 11:57 PM, "Gaelan Steele" wrote:
>
> I create the following proposal “Not So Cuddly Now” with AI 1 by Gaelan: {
> diff --git a/rules/How to Join and Leave Agora b/rules/How to Join and Leave
> Agora
> index 4683d3d..962eb2c 100644
> --- a/rules/How to Join and Leave Agora
> +++ b/rules/How to Join and Leave Agora
> @@ -66,7 +66,8 @@ text: |
>If e does so, e CANNOT register by announcement for 30 days.
>
>If a player has not sent a message to a public forum in the last
> - month, then any player CAN deregister em without objection.
> + month, then any player CAN deregister em without objection or
> + with 2 Agoran Consent.
>
>The Rules CANNOT compel non-players to act, nor compel players
>to unduly harass non-players. A non-person CANNOT be a player,
> }
>
> [This is both a legitimate proposal and an experiment. I’m happy to
> re-submit it as a “normal” proposal if that’s what people prefer.]
>
>
> I would like an exception that a player cannot be deregistered with two
> Agoran consent if that player objects. But I understand that isn't the
> point.
>
>
> -grok
>
>
>
--
>From V.J Rada
DIS: Proto: Cards are appealable: rights version
Create a power 3 rule called "Punishment is for Crimes" with the text
{{Other rules notwithstanding, a player CANNOT be sanctioned or
punished for an offense they did not commit, or for anything that was
not against the rules at the time they committed it. The only
exception to this rule is the issuance of cards by the Prime Minister,
which can still be issued for any reason}}.
--
>From V.J Rada
DIS: Re: BUS: Deregistration (of others)
Finally I intend to deregister sproklem w/o objection
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: Crowdsourcing the reportor (and [Reportor] Report)
actually no because the agency's name is invalid, so it is not an agency. On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 2:34 PM, V.J Rada wrote: > if retraction does not work, quazie (or anyone else) can always state > 24 hours notice for amending or destroying the agency in a way that > doesn't make me own quazie, but that will still leave a small time > window in which I own quazie. > > On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 2:27 PM, Ørjan Johansen wrote: >> On Wed, 6 Sep 2017, Quazie wrote: >> >>> I rescind the quoted intent. >>> I retract the quoted intent. >> >> >> I don't think Rule 1728 pays any attention to such retractions. >> >> Greetings, >> Ørjan. > > > > -- > From V.J Rada -- >From V.J Rada
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: Crowdsourcing the reportor (and [Reportor] Report)
if retraction does not work, quazie (or anyone else) can always state 24 hours notice for amending or destroying the agency in a way that doesn't make me own quazie, but that will still leave a small time window in which I own quazie. On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 2:27 PM, Ørjan Johansen wrote: > On Wed, 6 Sep 2017, Quazie wrote: > >> I rescind the quoted intent. >> I retract the quoted intent. > > > I don't think Rule 1728 pays any attention to such retractions. > > Greetings, > Ørjan. -- >From V.J Rada
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: routine deregistration
probs because there's a current proposal that will likely pass that will make him the agoracultoror. On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 2:25 PM, Aris Merchant wrote: > Why? > > -Aris > > On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 8:37 PM Cuddle Beam wrote: >> >> I object. >> >> On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 5:34 AM, V.J Rada wrote: >>> >>> Without objection, I intend to deregister bablien/Ajay Kumar Raja, who >>> has not posted since Jul 31. >>> >>> -- >>> From V.J Rada >> >> > -- >From V.J Rada
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: I take an action
there was one about flipping switches to the same thing. On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 1:56 PM, Ørjan Johansen wrote: > On Wed, 6 Sep 2017, Cuddle Beam wrote: > >> Actually, is being non-registered a requirement to register? Couldn't >> registered people just... Register again? > > > Wasn't there a CFJ about this recently? Or was that just discussion. > > Greetings, > Ørjan. -- >From V.J Rada
DIS: Re: OFF: Crowdsourcing the reportor (and [Reportor] Report)
invalid name: "is" is a verb. and i can't take another action for quazie today. On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 1:54 PM, V.J Rada wrote: > As Quazie using QAZ, I give my 24 hours notice to edit the QAZ agency > to have the following characteristics. > Name: Rada is 2 Players (R2P) > Agents: V.J. Rada > Powers: Take any action on Quazie's behalf, without limit. -- >From V.J Rada
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: I take an action
confused them with stamps whoops. On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 1:12 PM, V.J Rada wrote: > I was thinking of getting 10 friends to give me trust tokens. > > On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 1:12 PM, V.J Rada wrote: >> <> like “hey, I’m Gaelan’s friend who is totally not Gaelan. I register, >> give Gaelan my welcome package, and deregister. Hey, this is Gaelan’s >> other friend…” >> >> "an attempt in bad faith to swarm Agora and outpower the regular >> players in voting strength." is illegal but flooding for other reasons >> is legal, as long as they don't vote (and they're actually not you). >> >> On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 12:55 PM, Cuddle Beam wrote: >>> Actually, is being non-registered a requirement to register? Couldn't >>> registered people just... Register again? >>> >>> On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 4:43 AM, Cuddle Beam wrote: >>>> >>>> My 1-2-3 step thing was intentionally sent to DIS :P Just posted it as an >>>> example. >>>> >>>> On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 4:33 AM, Gaelan Steele wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Definitely. >>>>> >>>>> > On Sep 5, 2017, at 7:29 PM, V.J Rada wrote: >>>>> > >>>>> > <>>>> > >>>>> > So...let's reinstate the 30 day rule? >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > -- >>>>> > From V.J Rada >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> From V.J Rada > > > > -- > From V.J Rada -- >From V.J Rada
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: I take an action
I was thinking of getting 10 friends to give me trust tokens. On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 1:12 PM, V.J Rada wrote: > < like “hey, I’m Gaelan’s friend who is totally not Gaelan. I register, > give Gaelan my welcome package, and deregister. Hey, this is Gaelan’s > other friend…” > > "an attempt in bad faith to swarm Agora and outpower the regular > players in voting strength." is illegal but flooding for other reasons > is legal, as long as they don't vote (and they're actually not you). > > On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 12:55 PM, Cuddle Beam wrote: >> Actually, is being non-registered a requirement to register? Couldn't >> registered people just... Register again? >> >> On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 4:43 AM, Cuddle Beam wrote: >>> >>> My 1-2-3 step thing was intentionally sent to DIS :P Just posted it as an >>> example. >>> >>> On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 4:33 AM, Gaelan Steele wrote: >>>> >>>> Definitely. >>>> >>>> > On Sep 5, 2017, at 7:29 PM, V.J Rada wrote: >>>> > >>>> > <>>> > >>>> > So...let's reinstate the 30 day rule? >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > -- >>>> > From V.J Rada >>> >>> >> > > > > -- > From V.J Rada -- >From V.J Rada
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: I take an action
< wrote: > Actually, is being non-registered a requirement to register? Couldn't > registered people just... Register again? > > On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 4:43 AM, Cuddle Beam wrote: >> >> My 1-2-3 step thing was intentionally sent to DIS :P Just posted it as an >> example. >> >> On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 4:33 AM, Gaelan Steele wrote: >>> >>> Definitely. >>> >>> > On Sep 5, 2017, at 7:29 PM, V.J Rada wrote: >>> > >>> > <>> > >>> > So...let's reinstate the 30 day rule? >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > From V.J Rada >> >> > -- >From V.J Rada
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: I take an action
<From V.J Rada
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: I take an action
>>Also, deregistraion puts you on timeout. This is the whole point of my reregistration and the CFJ. It's not at all clear that this is the case. If CB said something more ambiguous like "whoo here I am here I am playing this game now unlike before" or w/e, sure it would work probably. All the money CB acquired before his deregistrations would be owing to Agora though so he wouldn't have infinite money. On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 12:12 PM, Gaelan Steele wrote: > For the avoidance of doubt, this was sent to DIS. Also, deregistraion puts > you on timeout. > > On Sep 5, 2017, at 6:58 PM, Cuddle Beam wrote: > > Also: > > 1) I deregister > 2) HURR DURR I REG1STOR > 3) I claim a Welcome Package. > > Repeat 1-2-3 until Agora is out of cash. > > .when Agora isn't broke af lol > > On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 2:07 AM, Alex Smith wrote: >> >> On Wed, 2017-09-06 at 10:00 +1000, V.J Rada wrote: >> > i wish 2 do da playery-playery stuff like da agencies and da votin' >> > and da ownin' of da money n' all that. i now change my status 2 be >> > able to do all dat stuff. >> >> The second sentence looks a lot like an action by announcement, but >> maybe the first one works? >> >> At least, it's completely obvious that you want to be a player as of >> this message, and IIRC that's our current criterion to become one. >> >> -- >> ais523 > > -- >From V.J Rada
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Stamps for sale
there isn't really another way to register, is there? or do you want me to not clearly and ambiguously register, sneaking in the CFJ precedent but going outside of the "by announcement" definition. On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 7:41 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus wrote: > Why can’t you just register now? Registration by announcement is restricted, > but registration need not be by announcement. > > Publius Scribonius Scholasticus > p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com > > > >> On Sep 5, 2017, at 2:31 AM, V.J Rada wrote: >> >> well i have 1 try but it's pretty dumb. otherwise i guess i'll do so >> on the 11th. >> >> On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 4:30 PM, V.J Rada wrote: >>> i misremembered the date didn't i? >>> >>> On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 3:16 PM, Owen Jacobson wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Sep 4, 2017, at 10:00 PM, V.J Rada wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I pledge to buy one for 10 shinies after registering, which I can and >>>>> will do on the 8th. >>>> >>>> That’s going to be an interesting challenge for you. I’m looking forward >>>> to seeing how you plan to do that. >>>> >>>> -o >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> From V.J Rada >> >> >> >> -- >> From V.J Rada > -- >From V.J Rada
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Stamps for sale
well i have 1 try but it's pretty dumb. otherwise i guess i'll do so on the 11th. On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 4:30 PM, V.J Rada wrote: > i misremembered the date didn't i? > > On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 3:16 PM, Owen Jacobson wrote: >> >>> On Sep 4, 2017, at 10:00 PM, V.J Rada wrote: >>> >>> I pledge to buy one for 10 shinies after registering, which I can and >>> will do on the 8th. >> >> That’s going to be an interesting challenge for you. I’m looking forward to >> seeing how you plan to do that. >> >> -o >> > > > > -- > From V.J Rada -- >From V.J Rada
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Stamps for sale
i misremembered the date didn't i? On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 3:16 PM, Owen Jacobson wrote: > >> On Sep 4, 2017, at 10:00 PM, V.J Rada wrote: >> >> I pledge to buy one for 10 shinies after registering, which I can and >> will do on the 8th. > > That’s going to be an interesting challenge for you. I’m looking forward to > seeing how you plan to do that. > > -o > -- >From V.J Rada
DIS: Re: BUS: Stamps for sale
I pledge to buy one for 10 shinies after registering, which I can and will do on the 8th. On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 2:57 PM, Owen Jacobson wrote: > The two stamps I currently hold are for sale - I’m hoping for 10 sh. apiece > for them, but I’ll take anything above 8. > > Just make a payment and say you want one. I pledge to return payments for > sales I can’t or won’t complete. > > -o > -- >From V.J Rada
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: [Proposal] Float On
To quote myself
Someone just pend an AI=3 proposal with the text
"Create a new power 3 rule called "Spend spend spend", with the text
{{When a shiny is spent, it is transferred to Agora}}
On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 10:24 AM, Owen Jacobson wrote:
>
>> On Sep 4, 2017, at 5:20 PM, Alex Smith wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, 2017-09-04 at 17:11 -0700, Owen Jacobson wrote:
>>> To ideally reduce future confusion about the Floating Value, I submit
>>> the following proposal.
>>
>> This could really do with a definition of "spend". I recommend you
>> define it as a class of mechanisms for performing actions. Something
>> like "If a player can perform an action 'by spending X Shinies', where
>> X is a number, that player can perform that action by announcement if e
>> has X or more Shinies, and X Shinies are transferred from that player
>> to Agora when e does so.”
>
> Probably worth doing in a separate proposal (and I don’t mind burning my
> other AP to do it).
>
> I didn’t think “spend” was unclear, exactly, since the rules define “pay”:
>
>> An asset generally CAN be transferred (syn. payed, given) by its owner to
>> another entity by announcement, subject to modification by its backing
>> document.
>
> Casually, we (at least where I am) talk about “spending money on food” as
> shorthand for “paying the grocery store for the food I buy from them.”
> However, it’s probably worth clarifying that an asset may be “spent” (v. i.
> “spend”) as a synonym for paying it to Agora.
>
> -o
>
--
>From V.J Rada
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: humble agoran farmer makes 100 stamps
Someone just pend an AI=3 proposal with the text
"Create a new power 3 rule called "Spend spend spend", with the text
{{When a shiny is spent, it is transferred to Agora}}"
On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 10:19 AM, Aris Merchant
wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 5:12 PM, Kerim Aydin wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 5 Sep 2017, V.J Rada wrote:
>>> >but is there anything the prohibits spending
>>> >shinies below 0?
>>>
>>> Yes, it's like the 1st sentence of assets. You can't go below 0 shinies.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>>> Anyway ordinary meaning of spend enforces common sense here.
>>
>> It's reasonable to say that ordinary meaning says the shiny is
>> no longer available to whomever spent it.
>>
>> But why does the "ordinary meaning" mean the shiny goes to Agora?
>>
>> The actual rules definition (for AP) is that the AP is removed
>> from the game entirely. When something is "spent", by common
>> language, it's no longer useful. So I'd say that "common language"
>> tells us that when you spend something, it's spent and gone -
>> not back in Agora's hands. Since that's the definition for "spent"
>> for AP, why doesn't it apply to shines?
>
> Actually, that's not a bad outcome:
>
> "In circumstances where another asset would be destroyed, an
> indestructible asset is generally transferred to Agora, subject to
> modification by its backing document and the intervention of other
> rules." (Rule 2166, Assets)
>
> So the person tries to destroy it and it goes to Agora instead.
>
> -Aris
--
>From V.J Rada
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: humble agoran farmer makes 100 stamps
>but is there anything the prohibits spending >shinies below 0? Yes, it's like the 1st sentence of assets. You can't go below 0 shinies. Anyway ordinary meaning of spend enforces common sense here. On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 10:02 AM, Kerim Aydin wrote: > > > On Mon, 4 Sep 2017, Owen Jacobson wrote: >> Be action Z) the following: Performing A), B) then C) twice (so >> A-B-C-A-B-C) then creating a Stamp by transferring 10 Shinies to Agora >> >> >> This step, however, is ineffective, whether performed once or one hundred >> times: >> >> Once per month, a player MAY, by announcement, transfer to Agora the >> Stamp Value, in shinies, to create a Stamp. >> >> >> The Stamp Value was not ten at the time. > > First, I just noticed that "spend" is defined for AP as decreasing > AP, but I can't find where it says that "spending" shinies is > the same as paying Agora to do something? Where does it say that > a "spent" shiny is transferred to Agora? > > Further, Rule 2500 explicitly prohibits spending AP into a > negative AP balance, but is there anything the prohibits spending > shinies below 0? > > I feel like I'm missing something very obvious in the above, but > I'm not finding it. > > > Now, longer discussion (on paying for things in general): > > If you say "I pay X to do Y", and you have X, but it doesn't cost X > to do Y, or Y CANNOT be done by paying X, it's not clear if you pay > X anyway. > > For example, if I say "I pay 3 shinies to o to make o happy", and you > say "you failed to make me happy", does that mean I paid you, or not? > Does it fail just because I couldn't do it with payment? > > The Assets rule says: > An asset generally CAN be transferred (syn. payed, given) by its owner > to > another entity by announcement, > I'm not sure why adding a purpose for the transfer would invalidate > the transfer attempt. At least, there's nothing in the rule to state > that adding a purpose (fee payment) makes it a conditional transfer. > > You *could* read "I pay X to do Y" as a conditional, as in "I pay X, and > if it doesn't make Y happen, I don't pay X". But that's not official in > the rules. > > And if you over-pay for something you can do by payment, does part or all > of it get transferred and do you do Y or not? Since you could write > conditionals for any of these options, it's not clear what conditional > would apply by default. > > Precedent doesn't help (I think?), because we've actually done it *both* > ways (the transfer goes through, or the transfer doesn't) with different > versions of fees. Sometimes it was explicit, sometimes not. And I'm > not saying your assumption is wrong or unreasonable - just that we haven't > decided how it works yet for the current assets rule? > > (Again, unless I missed something in the current rules that directly > covers this...?) > > -- >From V.J Rada
DIS: Re: BUS: humble agoran farmer makes 100 stamps
100 times is probs too many w/out you copying and poasting 100 times. there's a cfj directly on point here, although the line is not exactly drawn. On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 8:30 AM, Alex Smith wrote: > On Tue, 2017-09-05 at 00:22 +0200, Cuddle Beam wrote: >> This series of actions below is "Cuddlebeam's 100 Stamps Sequence". If the >> result of performing this sequence would result in me having at least 100 >> Stamps, I perform "Cuddlebeam's 100 Stamps Sequence". > > I highly suspect this fails regardless of what the actions are, given > how long they are. That said, this depends on the relevant precedents about > conditionals, and I wouldn't be surprised if some of them contradicted each > other. > > -- > ais523 -- >From V.J Rada
DIS: btw
Did minor fixes, cards are appealable and agoraculture ever get assessed? -- >From V.J Rada
DIS: Re: OFF: [Herald] The Scroll of Agora (Monthly Report
I'm kind of proud of the massive chunk of wins I accounted for. On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 8:06 AM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus wrote: > = > THE SCROLL OF AGORA > = > > > --- > RECENT CHANGES > --- > > > --- > CHAMPION by > --- > Anarchy Alexis > Apathy ais523. Aris, Murphy, o, Sprocklem, 天火狐 > Zachary Watterson, Quazie, > Publius Scribonius Scholasticus, tmanthe2nd > Gaelan, Ienpw III, Veggiekeks, omd, > V.J. Rada, Bayushi. nichdel, grok, babelian >Cards Taral, G., Murphy, OscarMeyr, root > Championship Wooble, root, Taral, OscarMeyr >Clout ais523, Alexis > Escape omd > High Score Elysion, G., Levi, Murphy(x2), Steve, > ais523(x3), Pavitra, omd(x4), Alexis(x2), > root, Wooble, Tiger, Murphy, BobTHJ, Walker >Junta ais523(x2), the AFO, omd(x2), G., OscarMeyr, > Alexis, nichdel > Leadership ais523 >Lotto Alexis, omd > Maniac Craig, root > Musicianship Zefram, ais523, Wooble, omd, Tiger > Paradox G., Murphy, root, BobTHJ (x2), ais523, ehird, > Alexis, Bucky(x2), omd > Proposal Human Point Two, Morendil, Steve(x3), > Andre(x3), ais523(x4), Canada, Bucky, G., > omd(x2), woggle, Spitemaster, allispaul, > Yally, BobTHJ, Murphy, Tiger, Alexis(x3), > Andon > Renaissance ais523, Alexis(x3), Murphy, G. > Solitude ais523(x2), Alexis(x2), omd > Via Ratification The President > Unspecified Blob, elJefe, General Chaos, Steve, > Chuck, Dave Bowen, favor, Garth, Ian, > Jeffrey, KoJen, Michael, Oerjan, Swann, t, > Timothy, Troublemaker at Large, Vanyel(x2), > Wes(x2). *(7/6): Chuck, elJefe, Kelly, KoJen, > Morendil, Steve, Swann, Troublemaker at > Large; *(4/3): Chuck, Kelly, KoJen, Steve, > Troublemaker at Large, Wes; *(3/2): Chuck, > Kelly, Steve; *(5/3): Kelly, Steve; *(11/6): > Kelly > *(N/P): Full patent title is Champion*(N/P) > where N/P is the winning ratio. > > > > ORDER OF THE HERO OF AGORA NOMIC > > GRAND HERO OF AGORA NOMIC > Peter Suber, Chuck Carroll, Douglas Hofstadter, > Michael Norrish > > HERO OF AGORA NOMIC > Murphy, G. > > > > HIGHER EDUCATION > > Associate of Nomic (A.N.): G. > Bachelor of Nomic (B.N.):elJefe, favor, > Steve, Vanyel, > Kolja A., Murphy, > Alexis > Master of Nomic: ais523 > Doctor of Nomic History (D.N.Hist.): Swann, Vlad > Doctor of Nomic Philosophy (D.N.Phil.): Steve, ais523 > > > -- > BADGES > -- > Coming of Age >(awarded to Active Players on Agora's 18th Birthday, July 2011). >root, ais523, Droowl, ehird, G., Gondolier, Math321, >Murphy, omd, Pavitra, Roujo, Alexis, Tanner L. Swett, >Turiski, Walker, woggle, Yally, The President > > Agora XX >(awarded to players of the Agora 20th Anniversary blitz Nomic > game, July 2013). >Fool, omd, FSX, Walker, Chuck, ehird, Yally, Michael, >Alexis, Roujo, Murphy, Goethe (G.), Steve, Blob, Tiger, >woggle, Ørjan. > > Order of the Lemming >(awarded to players who voted unanimously fo
DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] CFJ 3553 reassigned to o
"As a card was issued, it’s clear that the level of sloppy editing did rise to the level required to meet the CFJ 3472 standard" I don't believe card issuance is precedential like that in any way. On Sat, Sep 2, 2017 at 1:53 PM, Owen Jacobson wrote: > First, the procedural parts, and a note: > > On Sun, 2017-08-13 at 20:42 -0700, Aris Merchant wrote: > > I point my finger at P.S.S. for violations of Rule 2143, which states > that: "A person SHALL NOT publish information that is inaccurate or > misleading while performing an official duty, or within a document > purporting to be part of any person or office's weekly or monthly > report." I recommend a sentence of yellow card. These errors, while > independently insignificant, together have a "a significant, though > small, impact on gameplay" (Rule 2427), if nothing else because > they're an annoying distraction. > > > Note that this sentence was upheld by the Referee[0]. > > [0] http://www.mail-archive.com/agora-business@agoranomic.org/msg29045.html > > This will be relevant to the judgement. > > I AP-CFJ "The most recent document, published to agora-official, and > purporting to be the Registrar's report, was not in fact a report." > > > On Mon, 2017-08-14 at 04:58 +0100, Alex Smith wrote: > > This is CFJ 3552. I assign it to omd. > > > On Aug 25, 2017, at 4:51 PM, Alex Smith wrote: > > I remove omd as judge of this CFJ (which is actually numbered 3553), > and assign it to o. > > > Now, the meat of the matter. > > On Sun, 2017-08-13 at 20:42 -0700, Aris Merchant wrote: > > Caller's arguments: CFJ 2392 makes it clear that deliberately > inaccurate reports are not reports. CFJ 3462 (which I judged) > extended > this to apply to reports that "exhibit gross sloppiness and > negligence, equivalent in severity to lying in the report or not > publishing it." That's a rather high bar to meet, but I believe this > situation qualifies. Here, repeated CoEs and a-d discussion, some of > which involved P.S.S. emself, have discussed the situation. It is > matter well supported by the public record that this error has > occurred numerous times (see for example [1], [2]). Under > circumstances, I believe the CFJ 3462 standard is met. To be clear, > this CFJ raises a Rule 2201 doubt regarding the report. > > [1] https://www.mail-archive.com/agora-business@agoranomic.org/msg29024.html > [2] https://www.mail-archive.com/agora-business@agoranomic.org/msg28918.html > > > Aris’ summary of CFJs 2392 and 3462 are correct. As a card was issued, it’s > clear that the level of sloppy editing did rise to the level required to > meet the CFJ 3472 standard: > > In the meantime, while there will never be a bright line for this, the > standard is that the purported report has to exhibit gross sloppiness and > negligence, equivalent in severity to lying in the report or not publishing > it. > > > I find the statement > > The most recent document, published to agora-official, and purporting to be > the Registrar's report, was not in fact a report. > > > to be TRUE. > > -o > -- >From V.J Rada
DIS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] Appeal of CFJ 3537
"a pledge to violate the judge's judicial duty" Did I do that? Sorry. Obviously everyone should vote REMIT. On Sat, Sep 2, 2017 at 12:12 AM, Alex Smith wrote: > I initiate the Agoran Decision to determine public confidence in the > judgement of CFJ 3537. (Some context: the text of the CFJ is "There is > currently more than one auction for Estates" and the CFJ refers to an > old scam by CuddleBeam. The history of the CFJ is really complex, and > hard to summarize, including many failed attempts to reconsider and/or > moot it, an attempt to retroactively unjudge the CFJ via ratification, > and a pledge to violate the judge's judicial duty. Also note that the > original judge is currently not a player.) > > For this decision, the vote collector is the Arbitor, and the valid > options are AFFIRM, REMAND, and REMIT (PRESENT is also a valid vote). > Quorum for this decision is 2. > > A reminder of the typical meanings of each option: > > AFFIRM: The judgement was broadly correct; > REMAND: The judgement should be reconsidered by the original judge to > contain more detail or reasoning behind the judgement, or to take into > account points not previously considered; > REMIT: The judgement was incorrect and should be tried again by a > different judge, or there are other extenuating circumstances which > require a different judge to take over the case. > > -- > ais523 > Arbitor -- >From V.J Rada
Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Registrar] Weekly Report
Actually its all good. On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 8:41 AM, V.J Rada wrote: > Coe: Ienpw III and tmanthe2nd are not players. > > On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 7:31 AM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus > wrote: >> >>Registrar's Weekly Report >> >> >> (all times UTC) >> >> Date of last report: 20 Aug 2017 >> Date of this report: 27 Aug 2017 >> >> Recent events: >> >> >> Players (16) (Rule 869, self-ratifying) >> >> Player Contact Registered >> -- --- -- >> ais523 callforjudgement at yahoo.co.uk [1] 20 Mar 11 >> Aris thoughtsoflifeandlight17 at gmail.com 13 Sep 16 >> Murphy emurphy42 at zoho.com 27 Oct 07 >> oowen at grimoire.ca 12 Jul 16 >> Sprocklemsprocklem at gmail.com 19 Oct 13 >> 天火狐draconicdarkness at gmail.com 06 Nov 16 >> Zachary Watterson [2]tannerswett at gmail.com26 Mar 17 >> Quazie quazienomic at gmail.com15 Apr 17 >> P. Scholasticus [3] pscriboniusscholasticus at gmail.com[4] 16 Apr 17 >> tmanthe2nd trstnbrdwg0 at gmail.com13 May 17 >> Gaelan gbs at canishe.com 15 May 17 >> Ienpw IIIjames.m.beirne at gmail.com 21 May 17 >> Veggiekeks martinjroensch at gmail.com 25 May 17 >> omd comexk at gmail.com [5] 03 Feb 11 >> grok grokagora at gmail.com 24 Jul 17 >> Bayushi thelas.staloras at gmail.com29 Jun 17 >> nichdel nichdel at gmail.com29 Jun 17 >> babelian kumarraja.ajay at gmail.com 29 Jul 17 >> >> [1] also ais523 at alumni.bham.ac.uk >> [2] also known as Gumball >> [3] In full, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus >> [4] officially, but technically equivalent p.scribonius.scholasticus at >> googlemail.com >> [5] officially, but technically equivalent c.ome.xk at gmail.com >> >> Fora (Rule 478, self-ratifying) >> >> Type Location Typical use >> --- >> Public agora-official at agoranomic.org official reports >> Public agora-business at agoranomic.org other business >> Discussion agora-discussion at agoranomic.orgdiscussion >> Discussion irc://irc.freenode.net:6667/##nomic discussion >> Public agora at listserver.tue.nlbackup >> >> Subscribe or unsubscribe from main lists: >> http://www.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo >> >> Subscribe or unsubscribe from tue.nl backup list: >> http://listserver.tue.nl/mailman/listinfo/agora >> >> The IRC channel does not require subscription; set your IRC client to >> server irc.freenode.net, port 6667, channel ##nomic, and whatever >> nickname you like. >> >> Other rules pertaining to this office >> - >> Rule 2139 (The Registrar) >> Rule 1789 (Cantus Cygneus) >> >> Watchers (4) >> >> The list of Watchers is not governed by the rules, but is >> traditionally maintained in the Registrar's Report. If you'd like to >> be listed as a Watcher or removed from the list, feel free to email >> the fora or the Registrar directly. >> >> Watchers confirmed as of May 2017: >> >> Nickname Contact >> --- >> Ørjan oerjan at nvg.ntnu.no >> >> Watchers confirmed as of May 2013: >> >> Nickname Contact >> --- >> Dave davidnicol at gmail.com >> Phlogistique noe.rubinstein at gmail.com >> Steve zardoz37 at gmail.com >> >> >> Publius Scribonius Scholasticus >> p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com >> >> >> > > > > -- > From V.J Rada -- >From V.J Rada
DIS: Re: OFF: [Registrar] Weekly Report
Coe: Ienpw III and tmanthe2nd are not players. On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 7:31 AM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus wrote: > >Registrar's Weekly Report > > > (all times UTC) > > Date of last report: 20 Aug 2017 > Date of this report: 27 Aug 2017 > > Recent events: > > > Players (16) (Rule 869, self-ratifying) > > Player Contact Registered > -- --- -- > ais523 callforjudgement at yahoo.co.uk [1] 20 Mar 11 > Aris thoughtsoflifeandlight17 at gmail.com 13 Sep 16 > Murphy emurphy42 at zoho.com 27 Oct 07 > oowen at grimoire.ca 12 Jul 16 > Sprocklemsprocklem at gmail.com 19 Oct 13 > 天火狐draconicdarkness at gmail.com 06 Nov 16 > Zachary Watterson [2]tannerswett at gmail.com26 Mar 17 > Quazie quazienomic at gmail.com15 Apr 17 > P. Scholasticus [3] pscriboniusscholasticus at gmail.com[4] 16 Apr 17 > tmanthe2nd trstnbrdwg0 at gmail.com13 May 17 > Gaelan gbs at canishe.com 15 May 17 > Ienpw IIIjames.m.beirne at gmail.com 21 May 17 > Veggiekeks martinjroensch at gmail.com 25 May 17 > omd comexk at gmail.com [5] 03 Feb 11 > grok grokagora at gmail.com 24 Jul 17 > Bayushi thelas.staloras at gmail.com29 Jun 17 > nichdel nichdel at gmail.com29 Jun 17 > babelian kumarraja.ajay at gmail.com 29 Jul 17 > > [1] also ais523 at alumni.bham.ac.uk > [2] also known as Gumball > [3] In full, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus > [4] officially, but technically equivalent p.scribonius.scholasticus at > googlemail.com > [5] officially, but technically equivalent c.ome.xk at gmail.com > > Fora (Rule 478, self-ratifying) > > Type Location Typical use > --- > Public agora-official at agoranomic.org official reports > Public agora-business at agoranomic.org other business > Discussion agora-discussion at agoranomic.orgdiscussion > Discussion irc://irc.freenode.net:6667/##nomic discussion > Public agora at listserver.tue.nlbackup > > Subscribe or unsubscribe from main lists: > http://www.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo > > Subscribe or unsubscribe from tue.nl backup list: > http://listserver.tue.nl/mailman/listinfo/agora > > The IRC channel does not require subscription; set your IRC client to > server irc.freenode.net, port 6667, channel ##nomic, and whatever > nickname you like. > > Other rules pertaining to this office > - > Rule 2139 (The Registrar) > Rule 1789 (Cantus Cygneus) > > Watchers (4) > > The list of Watchers is not governed by the rules, but is > traditionally maintained in the Registrar's Report. If you'd like to > be listed as a Watcher or removed from the list, feel free to email > the fora or the Registrar directly. > > Watchers confirmed as of May 2017: > > Nickname Contact > --- > Ørjan oerjan at nvg.ntnu.no > > Watchers confirmed as of May 2013: > > Nickname Contact > ---- --- > Dave davidnicol at gmail.com > Phlogistique noe.rubinstein at gmail.com > Steve zardoz37 at gmail.com > > > Publius Scribonius Scholasticus > p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com > > > -- >From V.J Rada
DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] CFJ 3547 reassigned to omd, CFJ 3548 reassigned to G.
Good, ok. So we're all winners, and a proposal adopted June 21st by
aris changed the text to "without".
On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 4:55 AM, Kerim Aydin wrote:
>
>
> [Note also reward claim is at the bottom of this judgement].
>
> On Sat, 26 Aug 2017, Alex Smith wrote:
>> > > {{I call a CFJ on "A player that announces intent to perform an
>> > > action without N objections does not need to wait four days before
>> > > performing it"}}
>> >
>> > This is CFJ 3548. I assign it to Murphy.
>>
>> I remove Murphy as judge of this CFJ, and reassign it to G..
>>
>> > > ==Argument==
>> > >
>> > > The operable text is "If the action is to be performed *With N
>> > > Objections*, With N Agoran Consent, or With Notice, if the intent
>> > > was announced at least 4 days earlier."
>> > >
>> > > "With N objections" is meant to say "Without N objections" but
>> > > there is no time period enumerated for performing an action without
>> > > N objections. I guess a time period should be read in as a matter
>> > > of common law (to stop people from ratifying themselves winners
>> > > instantly) but still.
>
> I submit the following judgement for CFJ 3548:
>
> If the Rules state an action CAN be performed Without N Objections, it
> must satisfy all of a set of conditions (1)-(6) in Rule 1728 to be
> performed.
>
> I'll assume that the attempted action in question meets conditions
> 1,3,4, and 6 as these vary depending on the situation, and aren't the
> subject of the CFJ.
>
> For condition (5), "Agora is Satisfied with the announced intent, as
> defined by other rules", R2124 is fairly straightforward, Agora is
> satisfied:
>
>1. if the action is to be performed Without N Objections, then
> it has fewer than N objectors;
>
> It is clear that, at the moment an Intent is posted, then the intent
> has no Objections, as "A person CANNOT support or object to an
> announcement of intent before the intent is announced". So for a
> Without N Objections intent, condition (5) is true when the intent is
> posted. Any other reading would break Dependent actions entirely.
>
> So, condition (2) reads:
> 2. If the action is to be performed With N Objections, With N
>Agoran Consent, or With Notice, if the intent was announced
>at least 4 days earlier.
>
> Textually, this does not apply to Without N Objections, only With N
> Objections, so by the text, this condition is met (i.e. doesn't apply)
> for a Without N Objections action.
>
> The only counter-argument I can see is as follows: "Since there's no
> method called "With N Objections", it's obviously a typo, and it's clear
> that we should read it as applying to "Without N Objections." This is
> the "common law" interpretation that the Caller suggests.
>
> However, such an interpretation goes against R217: "When interpreting
> and applying the rules, the text of the rules takes precedence."
> Furthermore, I don't think it's in the "best interests of the game" to
> interpret this as a typo and say "With = Without". A large part of the
> fun in the game is looking for textual loopholes, and when one is
> painfully clear, we should abide by it, and it's for the good of the
> game to permit this kind of classic Agora Nomic gameplay.
>
> Also, the History is worth noting. The "with N Objections" text was
> inserted into R1728 by Proposal 7815 (Alexis, aranea), 28 October 2016.
> Alexis has been known for inserting purposeful scams in the rules, and
> for using loopholes (most recently, just around this same time, see
> R2486), and changing a negative to a positive is a classic way to sneak
> in a loophole. It is quite possible that this was purposeful, so we
> can't say the "intent" of the Proposal, which was correctly adopted, was
> or wasn't to insert a loophole. Whether or not it was purposeful, it is
> for the good of the game that we respect and accept that this very
> textually clear loophole was fully vetted by the voters, and allow it to
> function and for whomever finds it to exploit it.
>
> TRUE.
>
>
>
> I claim my reward for delivering the above judgement.
>
> -G.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
>From V.J Rada
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Regkeepor] ACORN
I assume R1688 specifically allows instruments to have positive power, so Regulations have some positive power, but we don't know what it is. That's my natural textual reading, anyway. On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 4:48 PM, Kerim Aydin wrote: > > > Just wanted to point out another possible bug in the very first sentence > of "Regulations". This may have nothing to do with the current issue, > but didn't want to forget: > > We have: >A Regulation is an instrument defined as such by this rule. > > But we also have R1688: > An Instrument is an entity with positive Power. > and: > All entities have Power zero except where specifically allowed by the > rules. > > Since the rules don't specifically allow Regulations to have power (unless > I missed something), they have power 0. But then they aren't Instruments! > Contradiction? I'm not sure if it matters but thought I'd point it out. > > > -- >From V.J Rada
DIS: Re: BUS: CFJ on with objection?
It's now yours. On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 10:41 PM, Kerim Aydin wrote: > > > Which CFJ is actually covering whether the 'with' objection scam > worked? I can't seem to find it. > > Anyway, If it out there and overdue or unassigned, I favor it. > -- >From V.J Rada
Re: OFF: [Arbitor] Re: BUS: Re: DIS: Fun fact
u have to pay. i would tell you how but nah can't be bothered.
Re: OFF: [Arbitor] Re: BUS: Re: DIS: Fun fact
And unfortunately, I don't think this CFJ is retractable so the two CFJs should be assigned to the same person. On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 1:58 PM, V.J Rada wrote: > CFJs can't be assigned to non-players, right? Only judged by them. So, > someone point a finger at ais. ais, give CB's valid CFJ to someone > else. That person, obviously non-players can't be speaker. > > On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 1:16 PM, grok (caleb vines) > wrote: >> >> >> On Aug 24, 2017 10:15 PM, "Ørjan Johansen" wrote: >> >> On Fri, 25 Aug 2017, Alex Smith wrote: >> >>> Luckily, your CFJ isn't valid; you can't call a CFJ nowadays without >>> paying for it. So it hasn't actually been called yet. Also luckily, we >>> still have some vestiges of the old officer system in which officers >>> had, in lieu of pay, a certain allowance for abuses of the office. That >>> means that it's totally legal, and in fact somewhat encouraged (see the >>> penultimate paragraph of rule 991), for me to do this: >> >> >> Unfortunately, eir registration attempt was sent to the wrong forum, and >> IIRC non-Players don't have to pay. >> >> Greetings, >> Ørjan. >> >> >> In defense, that does make the judgment much easier. >> >> -grok > > > > -- > From V.J Rada -- >From V.J Rada
Re: OFF: [Arbitor] Re: BUS: Re: DIS: Fun fact
CFJs can't be assigned to non-players, right? Only judged by them. So, someone point a finger at ais. ais, give CB's valid CFJ to someone else. That person, obviously non-players can't be speaker. On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 1:16 PM, grok (caleb vines) wrote: > > > On Aug 24, 2017 10:15 PM, "Ørjan Johansen" wrote: > > On Fri, 25 Aug 2017, Alex Smith wrote: > >> Luckily, your CFJ isn't valid; you can't call a CFJ nowadays without >> paying for it. So it hasn't actually been called yet. Also luckily, we >> still have some vestiges of the old officer system in which officers >> had, in lieu of pay, a certain allowance for abuses of the office. That >> means that it's totally legal, and in fact somewhat encouraged (see the >> penultimate paragraph of rule 991), for me to do this: > > > Unfortunately, eir registration attempt was sent to the wrong forum, and > IIRC non-Players don't have to pay. > > Greetings, > Ørjan. > > > In defense, that does make the judgment much easier. > > -grok -- >From V.J Rada
Re: BUS: Re: DIS: Fun fact
I replied to it just then, G. The theory is that Quazie has to and can appoint a speaker from within the set of winners. On two occasions (the recent tournament or my Apathy attempt) we might have all won. It might also have been the case that just CB and G are winners, or that CB and G won and then we all won. Or that nobody won. But this CFJ isn't meritless, it's quite possible, even likely, that CB is now the speaker. On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 12:32 PM, Kerim Aydin wrote: > > > On Fri, 25 Aug 2017, Cuddle Beam wrote: >> I CFJ: Cuddlebeam has a Platinum Ribbon. > > For crying out loud, for someone who wanted things "written down", you > sure don't put a lot (read: *any*) effort into arguments. Maybe take > an example from most other players? I recommend Dismissal on those > grounds. > > VJ Rada, could you point me to your ratification attempt? > > > > -- >From V.J Rada
DIS: Re: BUS: Going through the motions (likely frivolous "scam")
I misremembered: I had everyone win by apathy. But here you go, G. The textual theory was based on the fact that the rules that make "without objection" actions have to wait 4 days actually says "with objections". If that worked, it's been fixed (I believe by Aris). If it didn't work, my Minor Fixes proposal will be fixed when it ends up getting assessed. On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 4:57 PM, V.J Rada wrote: > Sorry sorry sorry. But the rules do textually allow me to do this, > although I am sure the rules will be construed by the already pending > CFJ to obviously not allow me to do this because it would be silly. > But I can't not *try* > > I intend in the next sentence to have every player win by apathy, > without objection. > > Every player wins by apathy. > > -- > From V.J Rada -- >From V.J Rada
DIS: Fun fact
Assuming either PSSs announcement or my ratification worked, anyone can use Quazie's agency to appoint themselves speaker. If G's recent CFJ is correct and my ratification didn't work, Cuddle can still do so. -- >From V.J Rada
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: tournament results CFJs
You should recall them yes: I agree with your interpretation which is different to PSS's. Just add "by tournament" to those statements or w/e it is. On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 8:11 AM, Alex Smith wrote: > On Thu, 2017-08-24 at 14:32 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote: >> >> On Fri, 25 Aug 2017, V.J Rada wrote: >> > Notably relevant to the second CFJ is the incident in which I ratified >> > everyone as winners after that date. If that worked, the second one >> > would be FALSE. >> >> Ah, thanks. About when did you do that? >> >> I withdraw my recently-called CFJs (though I plan on re-calling them in >> some form if anyone has opinions to express). > > I somehow forgot to comment on this at the original time, but I'd > recommend focusing on a specific win reason; IIRC there have at least > been attempts to win in other ways in the time period, and you wouldn't > want the same judge to have to judge all of them. > > I was planning to comment and see if you retracted/changed the CFJs, > but somehow forgot all about it and neither commented nor assigned it. > (Yet another reason why I'm not the greatest of Arbitors…) At least > things seem to have worked out this time. > > -- > ais523 -- >From V.J Rada
DIS: Re: BUS: tournament results CFJs
be investigated and handled in a > fair, documented, and equitable manner. The Herald may institute any > punishment, allowed by these regulations, decided through any means > after the conclusion of the investigation. No punishment for an > individual action shall exceed a deduction of 5 karma. However, the > Herald may remove participants or limit eir actions at eir discretion. > The Herald shall notify the player of the punishment immediately > if it is deemed that this would not impact gameplay. However, the Herald > may choose not to notify participants until the end of gameplay. At the > conclusion of the 4 week period, the Herald will carry out > any further investigatory work needed and will notify all players of > punishments with an option for appeals. After this period, the Herald > shall publicize all records pertaining to the game including, but > not limited to: investigation files, punishment logs, scoresheets, and > case logs. At that time, the Herald will also state the winner and award > Badges. > > [1] A private notification is a notification that is sent only to an > individual person. Inclusion of the Herald as a recipient of this > message does not affect its status and for these purposes, the Herald > may always be a recipient of any message. > > [2] A participant may attempt to give karma more times. However, all > attempts will be processed in the order in which the receiver’s messages > are received by the Herald and all attempts after the third > attempt will have no effect. > > [3] A participant is considered to have stated a statement in a publicly > visible manner, if it has been communicated to an individual to whom the > information is not required to be communicated to by the > rules. No communication with the Herald is disallowed by this provision. > > -- >From V.J Rada
Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] Overdue CFJs roundup
Quick, someone point a finger! Wish cards were appealable... On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 1:32 PM, Kerim Aydin wrote: > > > On Wed, 23 Aug 2017, Kerim Aydin wrote: >> On Wed, 23 Aug 2017, Owen Jacobson wrote: >> > > On Aug 23, 2017, at 10:04 PM, V.J Rada wrote: >> > > >> > > More interestingly, I believe some of those are more than a week >> > > overdue. If failing to judge triggers the statute of limitations on >> > > the point the judgments become overdue, these might be invalid. >> > >> > It depends on whether failing to complete a duty in a timely fashion >> > is an infraction that happens at a specific time, or whether it happens >> > continuously until the duty is completed or obviated. I had a brief look >> > through the CFJ archives, but didn’t find any obvious candidates for >> > case law… anyone else? If not, do we need a CFJ to resolve this? >> >> My imperfect memory is that a there's a CFJ that says the rule is violated >> at the moment the clock expires, and it's a single violation that happens >> at that moment. >> >> Can't remember the statement context so some digging is needed. If anyone >> else also digs, for search purposes "In a timely fashion" used to be called >> "as soon as possible". >> >> -G. > > It's covered in three cases: CFJs 2393-2395. > > > > -- >From V.J Rada
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Deregister
Oh speaking of momentary players, could the Agoraculture proposal submitted by o be changed to make someone other than babalien the agoraculturor, given he was around for like two days? On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 1:09 PM, Aris Merchant wrote: > On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 8:08 PM, Kyle Anderson wrote: >> I hereby deregister myself as a player for a minimum period of 30 days, in >> accordance with Rule 869. >> >> -K > > I'm sorry to see you go. Could you explain why you wanted to leave? > > -Aris -- >From V.J Rada
DIS: Re: BUS: Moot (plz support)
I'm not a player this didn't work. Should write it on my hand or something. On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 12:54 PM, Aris Merchant wrote: > > On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 7:53 PM Owen Jacobson wrote: >> >> >> > On Aug 23, 2017, at 10:52 PM, V.J Rada wrote: >> > >> > I intend to moot the judgment in 3537 with two support. >> >> I support. >> >> -o >> > I support and do so. > > -Aris -- >From V.J Rada
Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] Overdue CFJs roundup
>From my perspective the timeline is this: I judged FALSE. I made a motion to reconsider. I judged FALSE. I sent a message to A-D purporting to recuse myself entirely. I made a motion to reconsider. I judged FALSE. It was pointed out that one person cannot move twice to reconsider. PSS and CB supported a moot but nobody else did. Weeks passed. The judgment was incorrectly reassigned to o. There was no _vote_ to moot at any time. o judged FALSE. I pointed out this situation. PSS again moved to moot, with no support. On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 12:45 PM, Owen Jacobson wrote: > On Aug 23, 2017, at 9:50 PM, Alex Smith wrote: > >> CFJs for which the status is more complicated (and I could do with a >> summary of the current status for anyone who's aware of it): >> >> by o: 3537 > > If I was the judge at the time, then I resolved it (AFFIRM, of V.J Rada’s > original FALSE verdict) in this message: > http://www.mail-archive.com/agora-business@agoranomic.org/msg28943.html > > It’s not completely clear whether any of the motions to reconsider or motions > to enter 3537 into moot succeeded, either before or after I made that call, > and therefore not clear whether I correctly responded to a mooted judgement. > > -o > -- >From V.J Rada
Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] Overdue CFJs roundup
More interestingly, I believe some of those are more than a week overdue. If failing to judge triggers the statute of limitations on the point the judgments become overdue, these might be invalid. On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 12:01 PM, V.J Rada wrote: > << > Two fingers a week. The third is ineffective, although you can still > "issue summary judgement" with no finger. > > Operative text > "A player CANNOT point a finger more than twice per Agoran week, or > more than once per Agoran week at the same player." > "The Referee CAN, subject to the provisions of this rule, impose > Summary Judgment on a player by issuing a card to em by announcement." > "The Referee CANNOT Point eir Finger or impose Summary Judgment more > than five total times per week, or more than twice per week at or on > the same player." > > There's no exception to the first rule. Luckily this is a CANNOT and > the finger retraction doesn't change the card so you're good. > > On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 11:57 AM, Owen Jacobson wrote: >> On Aug 23, 2017, at 9:50 PM, Alex Smith wrote: >> >>> CFJs that are definitely overdue: >>> >>> by Quazie: 3542 (and 3550 but that has special circumstances) >>> by Murphy: 3548 >>> by omd:3547, 3553 >> >> I point my finger at the following players for violating rule 591: >> >> * Quazie >> * Murphy >> * omd >> >> Having confirmed the information above, and as rule 591 (“Delivering >> Judgement”) imposes a duty to judge in a timely fashion: >> >>> When a CFJ is open and assigned to a judge, that judge CAN assign a valid >>> judgement to it by announcement, and SHALL do so in a timely fashion after >>> this becomes possible. >> >> I issue each of the above-listed players a Green Card by summary judgement. >> The overall lapse in Agoran activity renders the specific lapses harmless. >> >> -o >> > > > > -- > From V.J Rada -- >From V.J Rada
Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] Overdue CFJs roundup
<< wrote: > On Aug 23, 2017, at 9:50 PM, Alex Smith wrote: > >> CFJs that are definitely overdue: >> >> by Quazie: 3542 (and 3550 but that has special circumstances) >> by Murphy: 3548 >> by omd:3547, 3553 > > I point my finger at the following players for violating rule 591: > > * Quazie > * Murphy > * omd > > Having confirmed the information above, and as rule 591 (“Delivering > Judgement”) imposes a duty to judge in a timely fashion: > >> When a CFJ is open and assigned to a judge, that judge CAN assign a valid >> judgement to it by announcement, and SHALL do so in a timely fashion after >> this becomes possible. > > I issue each of the above-listed players a Green Card by summary judgement. > The overall lapse in Agoran activity renders the specific lapses harmless. > > -o > -- >From V.J Rada
DIS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] Overdue CFJs roundup
<<<(V.J. Rada mentioned «the CFJ re << wrote: > It looks like the recent lull in activity has caused a few CFJs to go > unjudged for a while. (One of them was mine *oops*; I've judged it > now.) > > CFJs that are definitely overdue: > > by Quazie: 3542 (and 3550 but that has special circumstances) > by Murphy: 3548 > by omd:3547, 3553 > > CFJs for which the status is more complicated (and I could do with a > summary of the current status for anyone who's aware of it): > > by Quazie: 3529 > by o: 3537 > > I'd appreciate anyone letting me know if there are any corrections to > the above list, or any CFJs that have been called but not yet assigned, > as I'm a rather error-prone Arbitor. (V.J. Rada mentioned «the CFJ re > the ratification "scam"» but I'm not clear on what e's talking about; > anyone know what's going on there?) > > If the judges of these overdue CFJs don't show up soon, I'll find new > judges for them a few days from now. > > -- > ais523 > Arbitor -- >From V.J Rada
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] CFJ 3550 assigned to Quazie
o, you could probably just use quazie's agency to judge your own CFJ. Unethical but. On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 11:13 AM, Owen Jacobson wrote: > On Aug 23, 2017, at 9:10 PM, Alex Smith wrote: >> On Thu, 2017-08-17 at 02:03 -0400, Owen Jacobson wrote: >>> On Aug 1, 2017, at 8:21 AM, Alex Smith >>> wrote: >>> >>>>> I spend an action point, if it is possible for me to do so, to >>>>> call >>>>> for judgement on the following statement: >>>>> >>>>>Nichdel has 1 Stamp (nichdel) and 9 Shinies. >>>> >>>> This is CFJ 3550 and was paid for using AP. I assign it to Quazie. >>> >>> If it is possible for me to do so, I withdraw this CFJ. >> >> It only appears to be possible if the CFJ has never had a judge. We >> might want to change that. I can just let the CFJ languish in the >> oblivion of CFJs that nobody cares about if necessary, until the rules >> are changed? > > Crud. Sorry, Quazie. > > As both the caller (myself) and the subject (nichdel) of the CFJ agree on the > outcome, you can _probably_ quote my arguments and call it a day. The results > of the event in question have ratified at this point, anyways, though of > course if you found otherwise then we’d responsibly correct the record with > all due haste. > > -o > -- >From V.J Rada
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: Registering
We generally do actions by announcement. Thus "I initiate 3 agoran decisions for the elections for Reportor, Herald and Prime Minister" called by V.J Rada on 27 June" or "I initiate elections for positions X Y and Z and the Agoran decisions for such elections" should do. As to voting, "I vote for X" is ok, as is conditional voting like "I vote for anyone who votes for me, otherwise I vote PRESENT". I think the last batch of Office elections were called by nichdel in May. Voting for proposals is often done and there are proposals to vote on now (although the decisions having been initiated before your registration, you may not vote). On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 3:05 PM, Kyle Anderson wrote: > I don’t know, there’s something about being Prime Minister that calls to > me (though admittedly I have no working knowledge of what the position > entails). Could someone be so kind as to point me to a past election so > that I might look at the accepted practices to initiate/vote? > > > > -K > > > > *From: *V.J Rada > *Sent: *Tuesday, August 22, 2017 11:03 PM > *To: *Agora Nomic discussions (DF) > *Subject: *Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: Registering > > > > You can also take Reportor by deputization as I deregistered while holding > the office. Why are there so many mechanisms for filling offices when there > are like 8 players? Good question! > > > > On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 2:59 PM, V.J Rada wrote: > > You could do that yes. I long ago initiated elections for Herald, > Reportor and PM so initiating those Decisions should work to make an > election happen (it turns out that any player can do this, not just the > ADoP so all my arguing re that was so dumb lmao). Or you could initiate a > new election and the Agoran decision along with it. > > > > On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 2:56 PM, Gaelan Steele wrote: > > Yes. Pretty much all information about the state of the game is managed by > an officer and posted to agora-official. The ADoP keeps track of > officeholders, and their latest report is here: http://www.mail-archive. > com/agora-offic...@agoranomic.org/msg08221.html. > > > > A Motion of No Confidence shouldn’t be necessary, as there has been no > election for the PM in the past 90 days, and therefore (per > https://agoranomic.org/ruleset/#Rule2154) you can initiate an election > for PM by announcement. > > > > Gaelan > > > > On Aug 22, 2017, at 9:49 PM, Kyle Anderson wrote: > > > > I appreciate the help! I am interested in becoming more involved in the > game. The office of Prime Minister sounds inviting. Is there a way to know > who currently holds offices? Would a Motion of No Confidence be successful > in this case? > > > > -K > > > > *From: *Owen Jacobson > *Sent: *Tuesday, August 22, 2017 10:26 PM > *To: *Agora Nomic discussions (DF) > *Subject: *DIS: Re: BUS: Re: Registering > > > > > > On Aug 23, 2017, at 12:12 AM, Kyle Anderson > wrote: > > > > > Thank you! I gladly except the Welcome Package of 50 Shinies. > > > > > > Any advice to get started? I’ve subscribed to the three lists: Business, > Official, and Discussion. I have read the meager information available on > the Agora Wiki, and have perused a fair chunk of the rules. All without > really gathering the point or how the game operates. > > > > “How the game operates” is fairly easy. In fact, you’ve already figured it > out and put it into practice just by registering: game actions take place > by way of public announcements, as defined and enabled by the rules. Or, as > rule 101 (“The Game of Agora”) puts it: > > > > > Agora is a game of Nomic, wherein Persons, acting in accordance with the > Rules, communicate their game Actions and/or results of these actions via > Fora in order to play the game. The game may be won, but the game never > ends. > > > > > > Please treat Agora Right Good Forever. > > > > However, that’s a fairly dry distinction. As a starting point, the core > ludic activities of the game right now are proposing and passing proposals > (as in any Nomic), and in manipulating various systems created by the > rules. The systems in action right now include, but are not limited to > > > > * Shinies (which approximate money) > > * Estates (which approximate a landed gentry) > > * Trust tokens (which can be collected and used to declare victory, or > traded around) > > * Stamps (which are both investment vehicles and a commodity in their own > right) > > * Organizations (which are too complex to summarize; start with rule 2459 > and the most recent monthly Secretary’s report on agora-official) >
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: Registering
You can also take Reportor by deputization as I deregistered while holding the office. Why are there so many mechanisms for filling offices when there are like 8 players? Good question! On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 2:59 PM, V.J Rada wrote: > You could do that yes. I long ago initiated elections for Herald, > Reportor and PM so initiating those Decisions should work to make an > election happen (it turns out that any player can do this, not just the > ADoP so all my arguing re that was so dumb lmao). Or you could initiate a > new election and the Agoran decision along with it. > > On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 2:56 PM, Gaelan Steele wrote: > >> Yes. Pretty much all information about the state of the game is managed >> by an officer and posted to agora-official. The ADoP keeps track of >> officeholders, and their latest report is here: http://www.mail-archive. >> com/agora-offic...@agoranomic.org/msg08221.html. >> >> A Motion of No Confidence shouldn’t be necessary, as there has been no >> election for the PM in the past 90 days, and therefore (per >> https://agoranomic.org/ruleset/#Rule2154) you can initiate an election >> for PM by announcement. >> >> Gaelan >> >> On Aug 22, 2017, at 9:49 PM, Kyle Anderson >> wrote: >> >> I appreciate the help! I am interested in becoming more involved in the >> game. The office of Prime Minister sounds inviting. Is there a way to know >> who currently holds offices? Would a Motion of No Confidence be successful >> in this case? >> >> -K >> >> *From: *Owen Jacobson >> *Sent: *Tuesday, August 22, 2017 10:26 PM >> *To: *Agora Nomic discussions (DF) >> *Subject: *DIS: Re: BUS: Re: Registering >> >> >> On Aug 23, 2017, at 12:12 AM, Kyle Anderson >> wrote: >> >> > Thank you! I gladly except the Welcome Package of 50 Shinies. >> > >> > Any advice to get started? I’ve subscribed to the three lists: >> Business, Official, and Discussion. I have read the meager information >> available on the Agora Wiki, and have perused a fair chunk of the rules. >> All without really gathering the point or how the game operates. >> >> “How the game operates” is fairly easy. In fact, you’ve already figured >> it out and put it into practice just by registering: game actions take >> place by way of public announcements, as defined and enabled by the rules. >> Or, as rule 101 (“The Game of Agora”) puts it: >> >> > Agora is a game of Nomic, wherein Persons, acting in accordance with >> the Rules, communicate their game Actions and/or results of these actions >> via Fora in order to play the game. The game may be won, but the game never >> ends. >> > >> > Please treat Agora Right Good Forever. >> >> However, that’s a fairly dry distinction. As a starting point, the core >> ludic activities of the game right now are proposing and passing proposals >> (as in any Nomic), and in manipulating various systems created by the >> rules. The systems in action right now include, but are not limited to >> >> * Shinies (which approximate money) >> * Estates (which approximate a landed gentry) >> * Trust tokens (which can be collected and used to declare victory, or >> traded around) >> * Stamps (which are both investment vehicles and a commodity in their own >> right) >> * Organizations (which are too complex to summarize; start with rule 2459 >> and the most recent monthly Secretary’s report on agora-official) >> * Agencies (which allow players to empower other players to act on their >> behalf in controlled ways) >> * Offices (which supervise the operation of Agora and ensure that players >> have a clear picture of the state of the game) >> >> There’s a round of proposals in flight right now that make serious >> changes to Cards (the system by which unpreventable rule-breaking is >> punished), and to Estates, and as a player you can introduce your own >> proposals, too. >> >> As for the point of the game… This[0] message from nichdel, published >> last year, may be a good starting point. People appear to get out of Agora >> more or less what they put into it, but nichdel’s thesis, that Agora’s core >> product is the story of Agora, is compelling. >> >> Personally, I play for a couple of reasons: it’s fun to twiddle rules >> systems, and I find Agora extremely helpful for working on collaborative >> decision-making skills that I apply elsewhere in my life. I know others >> play to win the game, either using the victory conditions defined in the >> rules (which are, of course, subj
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Use me
E does. On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 2:58 PM, Gaelan Steele wrote: > I believe somebody claimed starter kits en masse, so I think you have yours. > > Gaelan > > On Aug 21, 2017, at 3:18 PM, Quazie wrote: > > On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 11:57 AM Quazie wrote: >> >> I intend, with 24 hours notice, to establish the following agency: >> Name: Quazie's Autonomous Zeal >> Head: Quazie >> Agents: If someone is an agent to another Agency that Quazie is the head >> of, then they are an Agent of this Agency as well. >> Powers: Perform any action on Quazie's behalf, but this power is limited >> to one use per day, per agent. > > > > I resolve this intent and establish the above agency. Also - anyone may > deputize any of my offices instead of using this - I'm mostly doing this to > see who does what. > > Things that are doable [Non exhaustive] > I have yet to get a starter kit of shinies > I will win the game if PSS ever resolves the Victory Election > I am the Prime Minster - so you can card people I guess and I get the blame. > > It's also interesting, because now if I want to dissolve this agency, each > person will have 1 attempt a day to block that by using me to revoke my > intent to dissolve. > > -- >From V.J Rada
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: Registering
o if there’s something you’d > like Agora to become, throw a draft rule change at agora-discussion and see > what sticks. > > -o > > > > > <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=icon> > Virus-free. www.avast.com > <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=link> > > > -- >From V.J Rada
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registering
No that's correct, I was assuming it was all one rule but of course nichdel had the foresight to avoid negative integers. I think it's possible to deregister ienpw III, tmanthe2nd and Zachary Watterson on the grounds that I've been around longer than a month and have never to my knowledge seen them. That money could be used to give K money. On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 2:35 PM, Owen Jacobson wrote: > >> On Aug 23, 2017, at 12:27 AM, V.J Rada wrote: >> >>>>> As an academic question, how do the current rules resolve welcome >>>>> packages when Agora holds less than 50 shinies? K’s welcome package is >>>>> complete, but there aren’t enough shinies left for the next one. >> >> I assume the parts of the rules banning negative transfers conflicts >> with the part of the rules demanding a transfer of 50 shinies and the >> conflict of rules provisions control. The welcome package rule is >> "Assets" with power 3. I think without looking that the same rule bans >> negative transfers and does so earlier? So the later provision >> overrides the earlier & puts Agora into debt? Does that make CFJs >> actually give you money? > > > I believe that CFJs, as currently implemented, cannot change the game state, > only clarify ambiguous states. If it appears that CFJs create shinies de > novo, then you should try it and find out, I guess. > > So here’s my theory: > > Under the previous implementation of shinies, it was possible for Agora to > have a negative balance, because Agora’s balance was a switch taking integer > values. The current implementation is in terms of the Assets rules, though, > and I’m fairly sure that rule 2166 (“Assets”, power 3) does not permit the > existence of a negative number of a fungible asset: > >> An asset is an entity defined as such by the ruleset (hereafter its backing >> document), and existing solely because its backing document defines its >> existence. > > Agora’s “balance” is a straight count of the number of distinct Shinies it > holds, not an abstract quantity; as a count, it must be non-negative. > > Since rule 2499 (“Welcome Packages”) has power 1, it cannot override rule > 2166. Rule 2499 only authorizes welcome packages of exactly 50 shinies, > specifically to be transferred from Agora, so I -think- that no welcome > packages are possible while Agora’s balance is below 50. > > Anyone see any holes in this? > > -o > -- >From V.J Rada
Re: DIS: Could someone please...
I'm not a player On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 2:35 PM, Quazie wrote: > Any player can actually initiate the decisions emself - either to deputize, > or just via the election rules themselves > On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 21:34 V.J Rada wrote: >> >> ...Use Quazie's agency to initiate the agoran decisions for the >> elections I initiated months ago for Reportor, Herald and Prime >> Minister >> -- >> From V.J Rada -- >From V.J Rada
DIS: Could someone please...
...Use Quazie's agency to initiate the agoran decisions for the elections I initiated months ago for Reportor, Herald and Prime Minister -- >From V.J Rada
DIS: Re: BUS: Registering
>>>As an academic question, how do the current rules resolve welcome packages >>>when Agora holds less than 50 shinies? K’s welcome package is complete, but >>>there aren’t enough shinies left for the next one. I assume the parts of the rules banning negative transfers conflicts with the part of the rules demanding a transfer of 50 shinies and the conflict of rules provisions control. The welcome package rule is "Assets" with power 3. I think without looking that the same rule bans negative transfers and does so earlier? So the later provision overrides the earlier & puts Agora into debt? Does that make CFJs actually give you money? -- >From V.J Rada
Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Distribution of Proposals 7869-7871
You posted this to DIS On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 8:31 AM, Gaelan Steele wrote: > >> On Aug 4, 2017, at 11:12 PM, Aris Merchant >> wrote: >> >> I hereby distribute each listed proposal, initiating the Agoran >> Decision of whether to adopt it, and removing it from the proposal >> pool. For this decision, the vote collector is the Assessor, the >> quorum is 2.0 and the valid options are FOR and AGAINST (PRESENT is >> also a valid vote). >> >> >> ID Author(s) AI Title Pender Pend fee >> --- >> 7869* babelian 2.0 Agoraculture v. 2.0 babelian10 sh. > > PRESENT [I’m not sure how I feel about this. I find it odd that Comestibles > are not assets or even switches, and I’m not sure how I feel about the strict > price range on them.] > >> 7870* V.J Rada 2.0 Cards are appealable 2.0V.J Rada10 sh. > > FOR > >> 7871* V.J Rada 3.0 Minor fixes (sans typos)V.J Rada10 sh. > > FOR > >> >> The proposal pool is currently empty. >> >> Legend: * : Proposal is pending. >> >> The Pending List Price (PLP) is 10 shinies. Proposals may also be pended for >> 1 AP. >> >> The full text of the aforementioned proposals is included below. >> >> // >> ID: 7869 >> Title: Agoraculture v. 2.0 >> Adoption index: 2.0 >> Author: babelian >> Co-author(s): >> >> >> Enact a rule with power 2.0 titled “Agoraculture” with the following text: >> >> Estates have a Farm switch with potential values Farmed and Unfarmed, >> defaulting to Unfarmed. If a player that owns an Estate pays 20 shinies to >> Agora in the first two Agoran weeks of an Agoran month expressly for >> flipping >> the Farm Switch on that Estate, e CAN, by announcement, flip or keep the >> Farm >> switch at Farmed. An Estate with its Farm switch flipped to Farmed shall be >> known as a Farm. A player who owns a Farm is a Farmer. >> >> Comestibles are a new type of entity than can be used to bolster voting >> strength. A Farmer CAN, by announcement, produce a net number of >> N Comestibles, where N is a non-negative integer less than or equal to 10x, >> where x is the number of Farms the Farmer owns. Comestibles MUST be priced >> from 5 to 10 shinies. In eir announcement, the player MUST mention the >> number >> of comestibles of each price produced. (For example, one such announcement >> could be: “I produce 3 comestibles priced at 5 shinies and 4 comestibles >> priced at 7 shinies.”) >> >> A player with voting strength greater than zero CAN, by announcement, >> purchase >> as many Comestibles as e wish from a specific Farmer. However, Comestibles >> expire within three Agoran months of their purchase. A player CAN, by >> announcement, use as many non-expired Comestibles e own as e wish when e >> vote >> on an Agoran Decision. If the net price of the sacrificed Comestibles is >> from >> 10N to 10N+9 where N is some positive integer less than 5, the player >> adds N to eir current voting strength, before being rounded as necessary. >> Comestibles MUST only be used once. >> >> A Farmer CANNOT use eir own Comestibles. When a Comestible expires it is no >> longer counted as belonging to the player who owned it. When a Farmer does >> not >> sell all of eir Comestibles in an Agoran month, e CANNOT produce more >> Comestibles than he sold in that Agoran month in the next Agoran month. Any >> unsold Comestibles CANNOT be resold in the following Agoran month. >> >> A Farmer MUST pay 20 shinies per Agoran month for each Farm e owns. If e >> does >> not pay 20 shinies per Agoran month specifically for a Farm in the first two >> Agoran weeks of an Agoran month, that Farm’s Farm switch will be set to >> Unfarmed. >> >> If an Estate transfers to Agora, a player, or an organization, its Farm >> Switch >> is set to Unfarmed regardless of its former state. >> >> Enact a Rule with power 2.0 titled “Agoraculturor” with the following text: >> >> The Agoraculturor is an office that keeps track of all farmers and Farm >> switches. E SHALL publish the Agoracultural Weekly Report (AWR), a weekly >> report of all farmers and the number of farms they own. E SHALL also publish >> a list of all player's Comestibles and their date of purchase. The >> Agoraculturor SHA
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: [Surveyor] August Estate Auction
Secret bids maybe? On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 3:22 PM, Alex Smith wrote: > On Tue, 2017-08-01 at 01:18 -0400, Owen Jacobson wrote: >> As Surveyor, it is my pleasure to annouce that the August estate >> auction for the estate of Borduria has begun. >> >> For those of you who are new, please review Rule 2491 (“Estate >> Auctions”). In summary: >> >> * Bids may only be placed by announcement. >> * Players may bid on their own behalf, to win the Estate for >> themselves. >> * Players may bid on behalf of any Organization whose charter makes >> such a bid Appropriate, to win the Estate for that Organization. >> >> The auction will end in exactly seven days. > > Screw it, I was planning to timing-scam a bid just before the auction > period ended but I was a couple of minutes late (so didn't send at > all). I had a blurb written up and all. > > We could do with an auction system that didn't incentivise everyone to > bid at the last moment. 6:18 am in the morning (local time) is not a > great time for timing scams. > > -- > ais523 -- >From V.J Rada
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Going through the motions (likely frivolous "scam")
It could well be textually that "without objection" means without any objection *ever* in the future because there's no time limit on that and if anybody objects, there is objection. On Sat, Aug 5, 2017 at 1:46 AM, Kerim Aydin wrote: > > > The rules arent't entirely silent though, R1728 says that without objection > actions can be done if all of the conditions on a list are true, and the list > has no time limit for "without objection". > > Now, we might actually get lucky that, as pointed out by CuddleBeam a couple > months ago, the process of Objecting is weakly defined. You could argue > that by the common definition of parliamentary processes, you need to > allow some kind of reasonable time for objections to be made, or you > can't say that nobody objects. However, you'd have the argue that the lack > of time limit in part 2 of the "all of the following are true" list is > overridden by > a custom-implied time limit in part 5(satisfaction). > > Main point though is you can't just wave you arms and say "precedent" :) > > On Fri, 4 Aug 2017, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus wrote: >> I do think that the rules are inconsistent, but I also believe that if they >> are not inconsistent, they are silent on how to do things without objection. >> >> Publius Scribonius Scholasticus >> p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com >> >> >> >> > On Aug 4, 2017, at 11:19 AM, Kerim Aydin wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> > First line of R217: "when interpreting and applying the rules, the text >> > of the >> > rules takes precedence." Even if 20+ years of custom and precedents have >> > us playing like X, if someone points out that due to a typo, the rules very >> > clearly say "not X", then we discard the long custom. Custom only applies >> > "When the text is silent, inconsistent or unclear." >> > >> > Now you *could* argue that the text is "inconsistent" in first talking >> > about >> > "Without objection" and later talking about "with objection", but you have >> > to >> > actually make that argument and explaining detail why we'd ignore the >> > direct >> > text. And if you based it on custom, you'd not only be arguing against the >> > text of the rule, you'd be arguing against the competing and deeper >> > "custom" - >> > that finding and allowing loopholes due to typos to work has long been >> > valid >> > and fundamental part of game play! >> > >> > On Fri, 4 Aug 2017, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus wrote: >> >> The general precedent of game custom and behavior around this method. >> >> >> >> Publius Scribonius Scholasticus >> >> p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> On Aug 3, 2017, at 5:53 PM, Aris Merchant >> >>> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> Which precedent, where? Also, Agoran precedent isn't really "a reason >> >>> why things happen". It's more a way to decide among the competing rule >> >>> interpretations, as people keep pointing out to me when the file motions >> >>> to reconsider my CFJs. :) >> >>> >> >>> -Aris >> >>> >> >>> On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 2:30 PM Publius Scribonius Scholasticus >> >>> wrote: >> >>> I believe this clearly fails because of precedent. >> >>> >> >>> Publius Scribonius Scholasticus >> >>> p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>>> On Aug 3, 2017, at 2:57 AM, V.J Rada wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>> Sorry sorry sorry. But the rules do textually allow me to do this, >> >>>> although I am sure the rules will be construed by the already pending >> >>>> CFJ to obviously not allow me to do this because it would be silly. >> >>>> But I can't not *try* >> >>>> >> >>>> I intend in the next sentence to have every player win by apathy, >> >>>> without objection. >> >>>> >> >>>> Every player wins by apathy. >> >>>> >> >>>> -- >> >>>> From V.J Rada >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > -- >From V.J Rada
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Going through the motions (likely frivolous "scam")
My "minor fixes" proposal should be passed w/ all speed though because I don't want something actually important like the text of the ruleset at issue with this scam. I On Fri, Aug 4, 2017 at 8:53 AM, V.J Rada wrote: > We'll have to wait for murphy to judge the CFJ regarding this to sort > out the game state, but if it did work it's fixed and if it didn't > work my pended proposal makes it unambiguous whenever it gets passed > so the only thing at issue is whether or not we're all winners. > > On Fri, Aug 4, 2017 at 7:53 AM, Aris Merchant > wrote: >> Which precedent, where? Also, Agoran precedent isn't really "a reason why >> things happen". It's more a way to decide among the competing rule >> interpretations, as people keep pointing out to me when the file motions to >> reconsider my CFJs. :) >> >> -Aris >> >> On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 2:30 PM Publius Scribonius Scholasticus >> wrote: >>> >>> I believe this clearly fails because of precedent. >>> >>> Publius Scribonius Scholasticus >>> p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> > On Aug 3, 2017, at 2:57 AM, V.J Rada wrote: >>> > >>> > Sorry sorry sorry. But the rules do textually allow me to do this, >>> > although I am sure the rules will be construed by the already pending >>> > CFJ to obviously not allow me to do this because it would be silly. >>> > But I can't not *try* >>> > >>> > I intend in the next sentence to have every player win by apathy, >>> > without objection. >>> > >>> > Every player wins by apathy. >>> > >>> > -- >>> > From V.J Rada >>> >> > > > > -- > From V.J Rada -- >From V.J Rada
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Going through the motions (likely frivolous "scam")
We'll have to wait for murphy to judge the CFJ regarding this to sort out the game state, but if it did work it's fixed and if it didn't work my pended proposal makes it unambiguous whenever it gets passed so the only thing at issue is whether or not we're all winners. On Fri, Aug 4, 2017 at 7:53 AM, Aris Merchant wrote: > Which precedent, where? Also, Agoran precedent isn't really "a reason why > things happen". It's more a way to decide among the competing rule > interpretations, as people keep pointing out to me when the file motions to > reconsider my CFJs. :) > > -Aris > > On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 2:30 PM Publius Scribonius Scholasticus > wrote: >> >> I believe this clearly fails because of precedent. >> >> Publius Scribonius Scholasticus >> p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com >> >> >> >> > On Aug 3, 2017, at 2:57 AM, V.J Rada wrote: >> > >> > Sorry sorry sorry. But the rules do textually allow me to do this, >> > although I am sure the rules will be construed by the already pending >> > CFJ to obviously not allow me to do this because it would be silly. >> > But I can't not *try* >> > >> > I intend in the next sentence to have every player win by apathy, >> > without objection. >> > >> > Every player wins by apathy. >> > >> > -- >> > From V.J Rada >> > -- >From V.J Rada
Re: BUS: Re: DIS: Proto Proposal: Hodgepodge
And I didn't fix my typo of dependent, twice. Goddamn.
On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 4:47 PM, V.J Rada wrote:
> I pend the following two proposals: the 1st with AP &
> the 2nd with Shinies.
>
> Title: Cards are appealable, kinda
> AI: 2
> In Rule 2426 entitled "Cards"
> replace the text
> {{A person SHALL NOT issue a Card unless:}}
> with
> {{A person CANNOT, and SHALL NOT attempt to, issue a Card unless}}
> and replace the text
> {{Any attempt to issue a Card, or any intent for a dependent action to issue a
> Card, is INEFFECTIVE if it does not include the following information:}}
> with
> {{A player CANNOT, and SHALL NOT attempt to, issue a card or intend for a
> dependant action to issue a card unless the issuance or intent includes the
> following information}}
>
> Title: Minor fixes
> Author: V.J Rada
> AI: 3
> In rule 2474, entitled "Green cards",
> replace the text
> {{When a person is issued a Green Card, they are ENCOURAGED to travel to the
> United States.
> }}
> with
> {{When a person is issued a Green Card, e is ENCOURAGED to travel to the
> United States.}}
>
> In rule 1728, entitled "Dependant Actions"
> replace the text
> {{If the action is to be performed With N Objections, With N Agoran Consent,
> or
> With Notice, if the intent was announced at least 4 days earlier.
> }}
> with
> {{If the action is to be performed Without N Objections, With N Agoran
> Consent,
> or With Notice, if the intent was announced at least 4 days earlier.
> }}
>
> In rule 2446 entitled "The Agoran Newspaper"
> Append to the second last paragraph, the sentence
> {{The Reportor's reports are still subject to the requirements of rule 2143}}
> replace the text
> {{The Reportor should keep in mind that the goal of eir weekly report
> is to create
> more informed population.}}
> With
> {{The Reportor SHALL include at least one piece of information relevant to
> Agora
> in the last week and SHALL write with the goal of creating a more
> informed population.}}
>
> In the rule currently not assigned a number called "Rewards", replace the text
> {{ * Publishing a duty-fulfilling report: 5 shinies.}}
> with
> {{ *Publishing a duty-fulfilling report: 5 shinies. This reward can be
> claimed a
> maximum of once per office per week for a weekly report, and once per office
> per month for a monthly report.}}
>
> On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 3:33 PM, Owen Jacobson wrote:
>> I would appreciate if you separated the change to Cards into a separate
>> proposal. It is not minor, though it is a fix.
>>
>> Beyond that, this is grand. Thank you for undertaking this. I suspect that
>> fix to 1728, in particular, is urgent.
>>
>> -o
>>
>>> On Jul 31, 2017, at 12:37 AM, V.J Rada wrote:
>>>
>>> Title: Minor fixes
>>> Author: V.J Rada
>>> AI: 3
>>> In rule 2474, entitled "Green cards",
>>> replace the text
>>> {{When a person is issued a Green Card, they are ENCOURAGED to travel to the
>>> United States.
>>> }}
>>> with
>>> {{When a person is issued a Green Card, e is ENCOURAGED to travel to the
>>> United States.}}
>>>
>>> In rule 1728, entitled "Dependant Actions"
>>> replace the text
>>> {{If the action is to be performed With N Objections, With N Agoran
>>> Consent, or
>>> With Notice, if the intent was announced at least 4 days earlier.
>>> }}
>>> with
>>> {{If the action is to be performed Without N Objections, With N Agoran
>>> Consent,
>>> or With Notice, if the intent was announced at least 4 days earlier.
>>> }}
>>>
>>> In rule 2446 entitled "The Agoran Newspaper"
>>> Append to the second last paragraph, the sentence
>>> {{The Reportor's reports are still subject to the requirements of rule
>>> 2143}}
>>> replace the text
>>> {{The Reportor should keep in mind that the goal of eir weekly report
>>> is to create
>>> more informed population.}}
>>> With
>>> {{The Reportor SHALL include at least one piece of information relevant to
>>> Agora
>>> in the last week and SHALL write with the goal of creating a more
>>> informed population.}}
>>>
>>> In Rule 2426 entitled "Cards"
>>> replace the text
>>> {{A person SHALL NOT issue a Card unless:}}
>>> with
>>> {{A person CANNOT, and SHALL NOT attempt to, issue a Card unless}}
>>> and replace the text
>>> {{Any attempt to issue a Card, or any intent for a dependent action to
>>> issue a
>>> Card, is INEFFECTIVE if it does not include the following information:}}
>>> with
>>> {{A player CANNOT, and SHALL NOT attempt to, issue a card or intend for a
>>> dependant action to issue a card unless the issuance or intent includes the
>>> following information}}
>>>
>>> --
>>>> From V.J Rada
>>
>
>
>
> --
> From V.J Rada
--
>From V.J Rada
Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Reportor] Weekly Report
>Arguably, the disrespect is part of the newspaper name, and thus under point >1, not 3. I share this interpretation. Only the editorialization is required to be respectful, not the title. In any case "I can't believe I get paid for this" is hardly disrespectful. On Tue, Aug 1, 2017 at 5:11 PM, Owen Jacobson wrote: > >> On Aug 1, 2017, at 3:03 AM, Aris Merchant >> wrote: >> >> On Tue, Aug 1, 2017 at 12:00 AM, Owen Jacobson wrote: >>> >>>> On Jul 30, 2017, at 11:43 PM, V.J Rada wrote: >>>> >>>> Title: I can't believe I get paid for this Weekly Times. >>>> >>>> Reportor notices own position is sinecure, refuses to >>>> work--- >>> >>> This is awfully close to violating one of the requirements of this office: >>> >>>> The Reportor's weekly report includes: >>>> >>>> […] >>>> >>>> • Any editorialization or other pieces of Agora-related information >>>> the Reportor pleases, as long as it is neither i) factually incorrect nor >>>> ii) disrespectful to any person or Agora itself. >>> >>> “I can’t believe I get paid for this” is, at least, arguably disrespectful >>> to Agora (which is doing the paying). >> >> More blatantly, e probably does believe it, as e pays emself in the >> same message. > > e does? > > -o > -- >From V.J Rada
DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Assessor] Resolution of Proposal(s) 7867-7868
How is this a scam? Isn't the proposal just blanking all Shinies and giving us welcome packages of 50, which have all been given out? What's the scam there? I'm not smart so... On Tue, Aug 1, 2017 at 2:26 PM, Owen Jacobson wrote: > >> On Jul 30, 2017, at 11:45 AM, nichdel wrote: >> >> Set every players's shiny balance to 0. > > Well scammed! > > I retract my offer to sell 1 vote for 20 shinies with a bond of 5 shinies > from the Agoran Voting Market and cause the Agoran Voting Market organization > to return my 5 shinies to me. > > -o > -- >From V.J Rada
DIS: Re: OFF: [Reportor] Weekly Report
Blast, I missed out on claiming my reward under the new rules. I CoE on the factual ground that the title is inaccurate, given I didn't get paid for this. I accept the CoE and publish the following report, claiming my reward of 5 Shinies for producing it. Title: This time I do get paid Times Reportor notices own position is sinecure, refuses to work--- On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 1:43 PM, V.J Rada wrote: > Title: I can't believe I get paid for this Weekly Times. > > Reportor notices own position is sinecure, refuses to > work------- -- >From V.J Rada
DIS: Proto Proposal: Hodgepodge
Title: Minor fixes
Author: V.J Rada
AI: 3
In rule 2474, entitled "Green cards",
replace the text
{{When a person is issued a Green Card, they are ENCOURAGED to travel to the
United States.
}}
with
{{When a person is issued a Green Card, e is ENCOURAGED to travel to the
United States.}}
In rule 1728, entitled "Dependant Actions"
replace the text
{{If the action is to be performed With N Objections, With N Agoran Consent, or
With Notice, if the intent was announced at least 4 days earlier.
}}
with
{{If the action is to be performed Without N Objections, With N Agoran Consent,
or With Notice, if the intent was announced at least 4 days earlier.
}}
In rule 2446 entitled "The Agoran Newspaper"
Append to the second last paragraph, the sentence
{{The Reportor's reports are still subject to the requirements of rule 2143}}
replace the text
{{The Reportor should keep in mind that the goal of eir weekly report
is to create
more informed population.}}
With
{{The Reportor SHALL include at least one piece of information relevant to Agora
in the last week and SHALL write with the goal of creating a more
informed population.}}
In Rule 2426 entitled "Cards"
replace the text
{{A person SHALL NOT issue a Card unless:}}
with
{{A person CANNOT, and SHALL NOT attempt to, issue a Card unless}}
and replace the text
{{Any attempt to issue a Card, or any intent for a dependent action to issue a
Card, is INEFFECTIVE if it does not include the following information:}}
with
{{A player CANNOT, and SHALL NOT attempt to, issue a card or intend for a
dependant action to issue a card unless the issuance or intent includes the
following information}}
--
>From V.J Rada
Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Reportor] Weekly Report
I mean if quazie would initiate the agoran decisions for the elections i initiated like a month ago... On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 1:52 PM, Nicholas Evans wrote: > This is too funny to fix, for now. > > On Sun, Jul 30, 2017 at 10:43 PM, V.J Rada wrote: > >> Title: I can't believe I get paid for this Weekly Times. >> >> Reportor notices own position is sinecure, refuses to >> work--- >> > >
DIS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] CFJ 3547 assigned to omd, CFJ 3548 assigned to Murphy
Hon Arbitor I think you missed o.'s "statute of limitations" CFJ
On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 11:45 AM, Alex Smith
wrote:
> On Mon, 2017-07-31 at 10:55 +1000, V.J Rada wrote:
> > I'm dumb whoops.
> >
> > I retract any CFJs that I may have called and pay 2/20ths of the current
> > list price in Shinies (I currently own 50) and call the following CFJs
> > {{I call a CFJ on "The rule change purporting to enact a rule entitled
> Economics
> > Overhaul 2.0 is "wholly void and without effect" under rule 217, which
> prohibits any
> > rule that would "prevent a person from initiating a formal process to
> resolve matters
> > of controversy, in the reasonable expectation that the controversy will
> thereby be
> > resolved"}}
> This is CFJ 3547. I assign it to omd.
>
> > ==Argument==
> >
> > The new rule creates an obligation to pay 1 ap or some amount of shinies
> to pend
> > any CFJ. While we know that a reasonable limit on how many CFJs may be
> called
> > is legal (I think?), we're not sure if stopping anyone bereft of Shinies
> or APs is legal
> > especially if APs and Shinies are also needed to do other game actions.
> >
> > {{I call a CFJ on "A player that announces intent to perform an action
> without N
> > objections does not need to wait four days before performing it"}}
> This is CFJ 3548. I assign it to Murphy.
>
> > ==Argument==
> >
> > The operable text is "If the action is to be performed *With N
> Objections*, With N
> > Agoran Consent, or With Notice, if the intent was announced at least 4
> days
> > earlier."
> >
> > "With N objections" is meant to say "Without N objections" but there is
> no time
> > period enumerated for performing an action without N objections. I guess
> a time
> > period should be read in as a matter of common law (to stop people from
> ratifying
> > themselves winners instantly) but still.
>
> --
> ais523
> Arbitor
>
DIS: Re: BUS: New Proposal: "Agoraculture v. 2.0"
This is a very good proposal and I like how instead of trying to seperate "gameplay" and voting actions, it makes voting and all the other things we already do into flavourful gameplay. On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 9:44 AM, Ajay Kumar Raja wrote: > Proposal Title: Agoraculture v. 2.0 > > Author: babelian > > Adoption Index: 2.0 > > > Enact a rule with power 2.0 titled “Agoraculture” with the following text: > > > Estates have a Farm switch with potential values Farmed and Unfarmed, > defaulting to Unfarmed. If a player that owns an Estate pays 20 shinies to > Agora in the first two Agoran weeks of an Agoran month expressly for > flipping the Farm Switch on that Estate, e CAN, by announcement, flip or > keep the Farm switch at Farmed. An Estate with its Farm switch flipped to > Farmed shall be known as a Farm. A player who owns a Farm is a Farmer. > > Comestibles are a new type of entity than can be used to bolster voting > strength. A Farmer CAN, by announcement, produce a net number of N > Comestibles, where N is a non-negative integer less than or equal to 10x, > where x is the number of Farms the Farmer owns. Comestibles MUST be priced > from 5 to 10 shinies. In eir announcement, the player MUST mention the > number of comestibles of each price produced. (For example, one such > announcement could be: “I produce 3 comestibles priced at 5 shinies and 4 > comestibles priced at 7 shinies.”) > > > > A player with voting strength greater than zero CAN, by announcement, > purchase as many Comestibles as e wish from a specific Farmer. However, > Comestibles expire within three Agoran months of their purchase. A player > CAN, by announcement, use as many non-expired Comestibles e own as e wish > when e vote on an Agoran Decision. If the net price of the sacrificed > Comestibles is from 10N to 10N+9 where N is some positive integer less than > 5, the player adds N to eir current voting strength, before being rounded > as necessary. Comestibles MUST only be used once. > > > > A Farmer CANNOT use eir own Comestibles. When a Comestible expires it is > no longer counted as belonging to the player who owned it. When a Farmer > does not sell all of eir Comestibles in an Agoran month, e CANNOT produce > more Comestibles than he sold in that Agoran month in the next Agoran > month. Any unsold Comestibles CANNOT be resold in the following Agoran > month. > > > > A Farmer MUST pay 20 shinies per Agoran month for each Farm e owns. If e > does not pay 20 shinies per Agoran month specifically for a Farm in the > first two Agoran weeks of an Agoran month, that Farm’s Farm switch will be > set to Unfarmed. > > > > If an Estate transfers to Agora, a player, or an organization, its Farm > Switch is set to Unfarmed regardless of its former state. > > Enact a Rule with power 2.0 titled “Agoraculturor” with the following > text: > > > The Agoraculturor is an office that keeps track of all farmers and Farm > switches. E SHALL publish the Agoracultural Weekly Report (AWR), a weekly > report of all farmers and the number of farms they own. E SHALL also > publish a list of all player's Comestibles and their date of purchase. The > Agoraculturor SHALL also flip all Farm switches when necessary. > > > Let babelian be the Agoraculturor. > > >
Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] CFJ 3537 reassigned to o
I have looked again and believe the sequence of events is convoluted and includes both a failed recusal (sent to A-D) and a failed second motion to reconsider (you can only file one) but the long and short of it is that there exists a final judgement which was not mooted (it was one vote short and based on a misconception that I was supposed to address the deputization issue). This judgement, which was validly sent twice to A-B at that time is reproduced below. The voluminous further discussion of this case served no purpose but confusion and the below judgement is final, at least as far as I can tell. This reassignment seems invalid. I move to reconsider (you can't, you cndan intend to move and wait for two support. I'm judging this FALSE. GASP! Surprise rocks the nation. I'm not judging it FALSE because auctioning is a regulated action though. It seems to me that despite the auction provisions, people could auction their own property without breaching the rules. I'm judging it based on the fact that Estate ownership is regulated, and CB's attempt to auction off Estates owned by another entity (Agora) and person (Josh) does not work. "A player who owns an Estate can and may transfer it to any player, to any Organization, or to Agora, by announcement" from rule 2489 regulates Estate ownership, as does the auction provision. This, mixed with the fact that the ordinary meaning of the word "Owner" means someone who can control their property, precludes anyone from taking an Estate from its owner or causing it to be taken from em, unless specifically authorized by rule (such as the auction provision). CB raises the additional argument that an auction still can be called even if the winner cannot have the property transferred to them. Auction is undefined. The ordinary meaning is "a public sale in which goods or property are sold to the highest bidder.". A sale cannot exist unless the property is actually given to the winner of the auction. I have already explained that this cannot happen. Therefore, an auction has not been called here. On Sat, Jul 29, 2017 at 9:32 PM, Alex Smith wrote: > On Fri, 2017-07-28 at 22:44 -0400, Owen Jacobson wrote: > > P.S. Honourable Arbitor, it may have been useful had you spelled out > > that this was a moot specifically. We don’t have those often and many > > players, myself included, are unfamiliar with them. I nearly forgot > > to spell out that I was AFFIRMing the most recent judgement, and > > instead nearly passed judgement myself. > > It isn't a moot. E motioned to reconsider and then failed to re-judge. > So you do need to actually pass judgement officially. > > -- > ais523 >
