Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Contract Creation

[Ørjan Johansen]

On Wed, 11 Apr 2018, Kenyon Prater wrote:


A related question, if a contact's state rests on something that is
guaranteed to have a definite solution, but producing that solution
computationally intractable, is there a mechanism for resolving that? It
isn't paradoxical or indeterminate, it's just that we don't have the
ability to determine the correct game state. (I'm reminded of the SHA-512
hash proposal)


The "reasonably" in rule 2518 might be interpreted to imply that this is 
already indeterminate.


Greetings,
Ørjan.

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Contract Creation

[Aris Merchant]

The contract's state would be fine, because it wouldn't be
indeterminate. However, any conditional that depended upon it "depends
on information that is indeterminate, or is impossible or unreasonably
difficult to determine, or otherwise requires an unreasonable effort
to resolve". We really should merge indeterminacy and inextricability.
Alexis suggested it, but I disagreed because they're separate
concepts. They are, it's just that they're really used for the exact
same thing.

-Aris


On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 3:09 PM, Kenyon Prater  wrote:
> A related question, if a contact's state rests on something that is
> guaranteed to have a definite solution, but producing that solution
> computationally intractable, is there a mechanism for resolving that? It
> isn't paradoxical or indeterminate, it's just that we don't have the
> ability to determine the correct game state. (I'm reminded of the SHA-512
> hash proposal)
>
> On Apr 11, 2018 5:42 AM, "Ned Strange"  wrote:
>
> I found the answer, contracts can only amend themselves by
> announcement (meaning my original contract there made does not work).
>
> I think contracts can only act by announcement, which seriously makes
> me wonder how I'm going to get all my assets back.
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 10:33 PM, Kerim Aydin 
> wrote:
>>
>>
>> A couple things:
>>
>> 1.  Can a zombie "willfully" consent to joining a contract (R869
>> requirement)?  I don't think so - see R2519.  Nonetheless this may
>> count as a "scare" since on reading that first message, people
>> might not have known that.
>>
>> 2.  I thought there was an "all parties have to have had an
>> opportunity to review an agreement change or it doesn't work" clause
>> in the rules - that was there for a long time was it taken out
>> when the current contract rules were written?  (that would govern
>> your question - the standard would be that evidence would have to
>> exist eg in an email that all parties agreed to a particular thing).
>>
>> On Wed, 11 Apr 2018, Ned Strange wrote:
>>> Hey absolute hypothetical fellas: what would happen if I made a
>>> contract that said "this contract automatically amends itself to
>>> whatever text V.J. Rada speaks in front of his computer after saying
>>> zibbledy zobbldy zam" or something like that. would that work? and
>>> could I make the position of assets unknowable to that technology?
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 8:04 PM, Ned Strange 
> wrote:
>>> > I create the following contract and transfer to it all of my assets. I
>>> > also have PSS join this contract, acting on eir behalf. This contract
>>> > appears to be a scam, having PSS join it is therefore scary to the
>>> > game, therefore I switch PSS's Owes a Scare Switch to FALSE.
>>> >
>>> > Is anyone keeping track of Owes a Scare Switches?
>>> >
>>> > Title: Hi!
>>> > Text: Nobody can join this contract except V.J. Rada and Publius
>>> > Scribonius Scholasticus. Whenever V.J. Rada provides an action for
>>> > this contract to take via agora-discussion, this contract takes that
>>> > action. Whenever V.J. Rada provides a dispersal of assets from this
>>> > contract via agora-discussion, this contract disperses those assets in
>>> > the specified way. Whenever V.J. Rada provides a new text for this
>>> > contract via agora-discussion, this contract amends itself to have the
>>> > specified text.
>>> >
>>> > This contract can own any and all assets.
>>> > --
>>> > From V.J. Rada
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> From V.J. Rada
>>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> From V.J. Rada

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Contract Creation

[Kenyon Prater]

A related question, if a contact's state rests on something that is
guaranteed to have a definite solution, but producing that solution
computationally intractable, is there a mechanism for resolving that? It
isn't paradoxical or indeterminate, it's just that we don't have the
ability to determine the correct game state. (I'm reminded of the SHA-512
hash proposal)

On Apr 11, 2018 5:42 AM, "Ned Strange"  wrote:

I found the answer, contracts can only amend themselves by
announcement (meaning my original contract there made does not work).

I think contracts can only act by announcement, which seriously makes
me wonder how I'm going to get all my assets back.


On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 10:33 PM, Kerim Aydin 
wrote:
>
>
> A couple things:
>
> 1.  Can a zombie "willfully" consent to joining a contract (R869
> requirement)?  I don't think so - see R2519.  Nonetheless this may
> count as a "scare" since on reading that first message, people
> might not have known that.
>
> 2.  I thought there was an "all parties have to have had an
> opportunity to review an agreement change or it doesn't work" clause
> in the rules - that was there for a long time was it taken out
> when the current contract rules were written?  (that would govern
> your question - the standard would be that evidence would have to
> exist eg in an email that all parties agreed to a particular thing).
>
> On Wed, 11 Apr 2018, Ned Strange wrote:
>> Hey absolute hypothetical fellas: what would happen if I made a
>> contract that said "this contract automatically amends itself to
>> whatever text V.J. Rada speaks in front of his computer after saying
>> zibbledy zobbldy zam" or something like that. would that work? and
>> could I make the position of assets unknowable to that technology?
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 8:04 PM, Ned Strange 
wrote:
>> > I create the following contract and transfer to it all of my assets. I
>> > also have PSS join this contract, acting on eir behalf. This contract
>> > appears to be a scam, having PSS join it is therefore scary to the
>> > game, therefore I switch PSS's Owes a Scare Switch to FALSE.
>> >
>> > Is anyone keeping track of Owes a Scare Switches?
>> >
>> > Title: Hi!
>> > Text: Nobody can join this contract except V.J. Rada and Publius
>> > Scribonius Scholasticus. Whenever V.J. Rada provides an action for
>> > this contract to take via agora-discussion, this contract takes that
>> > action. Whenever V.J. Rada provides a dispersal of assets from this
>> > contract via agora-discussion, this contract disperses those assets in
>> > the specified way. Whenever V.J. Rada provides a new text for this
>> > contract via agora-discussion, this contract amends itself to have the
>> > specified text.
>> >
>> > This contract can own any and all assets.
>> > --
>> > From V.J. Rada
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> From V.J. Rada
>>
>



--
>From V.J. Rada

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Contract Creation

[Corona]

That's golden, almost title-worthy...​

On 14:42, Apr 11, 2018, at 14:42, Ned Strange  wrote:
>I found the answer, contracts can only amend themselves by
>announcement (meaning my original contract there made does not work).
>
>I think contracts can only act by announcement, which seriously makes
>me wonder how I'm going to get all my assets back.
>
>On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 10:33 PM, Kerim Aydin 
>wrote:
>>
>>
>> A couple things:
>>
>> 1.  Can a zombie "willfully" consent to joining a contract (R869
>> requirement)?  I don't think so - see R2519.  Nonetheless this may
>> count as a "scare" since on reading that first message, people
>> might not have known that.
>>
>> 2.  I thought there was an "all parties have to have had an
>> opportunity to review an agreement change or it doesn't work" clause
>> in the rules - that was there for a long time was it taken out
>> when the current contract rules were written?  (that would govern
>> your question - the standard would be that evidence would have to
>> exist eg in an email that all parties agreed to a particular thing).
>>
>> On Wed, 11 Apr 2018, Ned Strange wrote:
>>> Hey absolute hypothetical fellas: what would happen if I made a
>>> contract that said "this contract automatically amends itself to
>>> whatever text V.J. Rada speaks in front of his computer after saying
>>> zibbledy zobbldy zam" or something like that. would that work? and
>>> could I make the position of assets unknowable to that technology?
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 8:04 PM, Ned Strange
> wrote:
>>> > I create the following contract and transfer to it all of my
>assets. I
>>> > also have PSS join this contract, acting on eir behalf. This
>contract
>>> > appears to be a scam, having PSS join it is therefore scary to the
>>> > game, therefore I switch PSS's Owes a Scare Switch to FALSE.
>>> >
>>> > Is anyone keeping track of Owes a Scare Switches?
>>> >
>>> > Title: Hi!
>>> > Text: Nobody can join this contract except V.J. Rada and Publius
>>> > Scribonius Scholasticus. Whenever V.J. Rada provides an action for
>>> > this contract to take via agora-discussion, this contract takes
>that
>>> > action. Whenever V.J. Rada provides a dispersal of assets from
>this
>>> > contract via agora-discussion, this contract disperses those
>assets in
>>> > the specified way. Whenever V.J. Rada provides a new text for this
>>> > contract via agora-discussion, this contract amends itself to have
>the
>>> > specified text.
>>> >
>>> > This contract can own any and all assets.
>>> > --
>>> > From V.J. Rada
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> From V.J. Rada
>>>
>>
>
>
>
>--
>From V.J. Rada

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Contract Creation

[Ned Strange]

I found the answer, contracts can only amend themselves by
announcement (meaning my original contract there made does not work).

I think contracts can only act by announcement, which seriously makes
me wonder how I'm going to get all my assets back.

On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 10:33 PM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:
>
>
> A couple things:
>
> 1.  Can a zombie "willfully" consent to joining a contract (R869
> requirement)?  I don't think so - see R2519.  Nonetheless this may
> count as a "scare" since on reading that first message, people
> might not have known that.
>
> 2.  I thought there was an "all parties have to have had an
> opportunity to review an agreement change or it doesn't work" clause
> in the rules - that was there for a long time was it taken out
> when the current contract rules were written?  (that would govern
> your question - the standard would be that evidence would have to
> exist eg in an email that all parties agreed to a particular thing).
>
> On Wed, 11 Apr 2018, Ned Strange wrote:
>> Hey absolute hypothetical fellas: what would happen if I made a
>> contract that said "this contract automatically amends itself to
>> whatever text V.J. Rada speaks in front of his computer after saying
>> zibbledy zobbldy zam" or something like that. would that work? and
>> could I make the position of assets unknowable to that technology?
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 8:04 PM, Ned Strange  
>> wrote:
>> > I create the following contract and transfer to it all of my assets. I
>> > also have PSS join this contract, acting on eir behalf. This contract
>> > appears to be a scam, having PSS join it is therefore scary to the
>> > game, therefore I switch PSS's Owes a Scare Switch to FALSE.
>> >
>> > Is anyone keeping track of Owes a Scare Switches?
>> >
>> > Title: Hi!
>> > Text: Nobody can join this contract except V.J. Rada and Publius
>> > Scribonius Scholasticus. Whenever V.J. Rada provides an action for
>> > this contract to take via agora-discussion, this contract takes that
>> > action. Whenever V.J. Rada provides a dispersal of assets from this
>> > contract via agora-discussion, this contract disperses those assets in
>> > the specified way. Whenever V.J. Rada provides a new text for this
>> > contract via agora-discussion, this contract amends itself to have the
>> > specified text.
>> >
>> > This contract can own any and all assets.
>> > --
>> > From V.J. Rada
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> From V.J. Rada
>>
>



-- 
>From V.J. Rada

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Contract Creation

[Kerim Aydin]

A couple things:

1.  Can a zombie "willfully" consent to joining a contract (R869 
requirement)?  I don't think so - see R2519.  Nonetheless this may
count as a "scare" since on reading that first message, people
might not have known that.

2.  I thought there was an "all parties have to have had an 
opportunity to review an agreement change or it doesn't work" clause
in the rules - that was there for a long time was it taken out 
when the current contract rules were written?  (that would govern
your question - the standard would be that evidence would have to
exist eg in an email that all parties agreed to a particular thing).

On Wed, 11 Apr 2018, Ned Strange wrote:
> Hey absolute hypothetical fellas: what would happen if I made a
> contract that said "this contract automatically amends itself to
> whatever text V.J. Rada speaks in front of his computer after saying
> zibbledy zobbldy zam" or something like that. would that work? and
> could I make the position of assets unknowable to that technology?
> 
> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 8:04 PM, Ned Strange  wrote:
> > I create the following contract and transfer to it all of my assets. I
> > also have PSS join this contract, acting on eir behalf. This contract
> > appears to be a scam, having PSS join it is therefore scary to the
> > game, therefore I switch PSS's Owes a Scare Switch to FALSE.
> >
> > Is anyone keeping track of Owes a Scare Switches?
> >
> > Title: Hi!
> > Text: Nobody can join this contract except V.J. Rada and Publius
> > Scribonius Scholasticus. Whenever V.J. Rada provides an action for
> > this contract to take via agora-discussion, this contract takes that
> > action. Whenever V.J. Rada provides a dispersal of assets from this
> > contract via agora-discussion, this contract disperses those assets in
> > the specified way. Whenever V.J. Rada provides a new text for this
> > contract via agora-discussion, this contract amends itself to have the
> > specified text.
> >
> > This contract can own any and all assets.
> > --
> > From V.J. Rada
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> From V.J. Rada
>

DIS: Re: BUS: Contract Creation

[Ned Strange]

Hey absolute hypothetical fellas: what would happen if I made a
contract that said "this contract automatically amends itself to
whatever text V.J. Rada speaks in front of his computer after saying
zibbledy zobbldy zam" or something like that. would that work? and
could I make the position of assets unknowable to that technology?

On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 8:04 PM, Ned Strange  wrote:
> I create the following contract and transfer to it all of my assets. I
> also have PSS join this contract, acting on eir behalf. This contract
> appears to be a scam, having PSS join it is therefore scary to the
> game, therefore I switch PSS's Owes a Scare Switch to FALSE.
>
> Is anyone keeping track of Owes a Scare Switches?
>
> Title: Hi!
> Text: Nobody can join this contract except V.J. Rada and Publius
> Scribonius Scholasticus. Whenever V.J. Rada provides an action for
> this contract to take via agora-discussion, this contract takes that
> action. Whenever V.J. Rada provides a dispersal of assets from this
> contract via agora-discussion, this contract disperses those assets in
> the specified way. Whenever V.J. Rada provides a new text for this
> contract via agora-discussion, this contract amends itself to have the
> specified text.
>
> This contract can own any and all assets.
> --
> From V.J. Rada



-- 
>From V.J. Rada