Re: BUS: Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Assessor] Resolution of Proposals 8473-8476
On 7/22/20 7:17 PM, Reuben Staley via agora-discussion wrote: > On 2020-07-22 17:15, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus via > agora-discussion wrote: >> On 7/22/20 7:01 PM, Reuben Staley via agora-discussion wrote: >>> On 2020-07-22 16:56, Jason Cobb via agora-discussion wrote: On 7/22/20 6:54 PM, Reuben Staley via agora-discussion wrote: > Are you certain? The ribbon terminology is a bit weird but I believe > that I do. > Rule 2438 awards you the black ribbon because of this paragraph: > Black (K): A statute CAN, as part of its effect, cause a > person to > earn a Black Ribbon. When this occurs, this Rule awards that > person a Black Ribbon. The proposal (a statute) caused you to earn a Black Ribbon, so the rule awarded it to you (fulfilling the security restriction on ribbon ownership). >>> >>> I suppose that you're right. Good to know that the ribbon terminology is >>> inconsistent with not only other usages of the same words in the >>> ruleset, but also itself based on which ribbon is being awarded. >>> >> >> It's not internally inconsistent; one ribbon is just explicitly treated >> differently than the others. >> > > That was not my claim. It's not a case of internal inconsistency, it's a > case of breaking the natural assumption based on the terms already defined. > Okay, I misunderstood; my apologies. -- Publius Scribonius Scholasticus, Herald, Referee, Tailor, Pirate Champion, Badge of the Great Agoran Revival, Badge of the Salted Earth
Re: BUS: Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Assessor] Resolution of Proposals 8473-8476
On 2020-07-22 17:15, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus via agora-discussion wrote: On 7/22/20 7:01 PM, Reuben Staley via agora-discussion wrote: On 2020-07-22 16:56, Jason Cobb via agora-discussion wrote: On 7/22/20 6:54 PM, Reuben Staley via agora-discussion wrote: Are you certain? The ribbon terminology is a bit weird but I believe that I do. Rule 2438 awards you the black ribbon because of this paragraph: Black (K): A statute CAN, as part of its effect, cause a person to earn a Black Ribbon. When this occurs, this Rule awards that person a Black Ribbon. The proposal (a statute) caused you to earn a Black Ribbon, so the rule awarded it to you (fulfilling the security restriction on ribbon ownership). I suppose that you're right. Good to know that the ribbon terminology is inconsistent with not only other usages of the same words in the ruleset, but also itself based on which ribbon is being awarded. It's not internally inconsistent; one ribbon is just explicitly treated differently than the others. That was not my claim. It's not a case of internal inconsistency, it's a case of breaking the natural assumption based on the terms already defined. -- Trigon I LOVE SPAGHETTI transfer Jason one coin nch was here I hereby don't... trust... the dragon... don't... trust... the dragon... Do not Construe Jason's message with subject TRIGON as extending this
Re: BUS: Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Assessor] Resolution of Proposals 8473-8476
On 7/22/20 7:01 PM, Reuben Staley via agora-discussion wrote: > On 2020-07-22 16:56, Jason Cobb via agora-discussion wrote: >> On 7/22/20 6:54 PM, Reuben Staley via agora-discussion wrote: >>> Are you certain? The ribbon terminology is a bit weird but I believe >>> that I do. >>> >> >> Rule 2438 awards you the black ribbon because of this paragraph: >> >>> Black (K): A statute CAN, as part of its effect, cause a >>> person to >>> earn a Black Ribbon. When this occurs, this Rule awards that >>> person a Black Ribbon. >> >> >> The proposal (a statute) caused you to earn a Black Ribbon, so the rule >> awarded it to you (fulfilling the security restriction on ribbon >> ownership). >> > > I suppose that you're right. Good to know that the ribbon terminology is > inconsistent with not only other usages of the same words in the > ruleset, but also itself based on which ribbon is being awarded. > It's not internally inconsistent; one ribbon is just explicitly treated differently than the others. -- Publius Scribonius Scholasticus, Herald, Referee, Tailor, Pirate Champion, Badge of the Great Agoran Revival, Badge of the Salted Earth
Re: BUS: Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Assessor] Resolution of Proposals 8473-8476
On 7/22/20 6:54 PM, Reuben Staley via agora-discussion wrote: > On 2020-07-22 16:41, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus via > agora-discussion wrote: >> On 7/22/20 6:32 PM, Reuben Staley via agora-business wrote: >>> On 2020-07-20 16:12, Reuben Staley wrote: On 2020-07-19 18:12, Reuben Staley via agora-business wrote: > That is to say, I award myself a black glitter, this time on the > Public > Forum. As it turns out I do not have a black ribbon yet so the above claim failed. I award myself a black ribbon. >>> >>> As it turns out that was a-d. >>> >>> I award myself a black ribbon. >>> >> >> You don't have to actively award it, so it doesn't matter. >> > > Are you certain? The ribbon terminology is a bit weird but I believe > that I do. > > From the proposal in question: >> ID: 8473 >> Title: Plain Old Bribery >> Adoption index: 1.0 >> Author: Jason >> Co-authors: G. >> >> >> Every player who cast a valid non-withdrawn unconditional ballot FOR >> this proposal earns a Black Ribbon. > > I *earned* a Black Ribbon on at 19 Jun 2020 23:45. According to > Paragraph 3 of Rule 2438, > >> A person qualifies for a type of Ribbon if e has earned that type >> of Ribbon within the preceding 7 days (including earlier in the >> same message). > Therefore I *qualify* for a Black Ribbon until 26 Jun 2020 23:45. > According to the end of that rule, > >> While a person qualifies for a type of Ribbon: >> - If e has not owned that type of Ribbon within the >> preceding 7 >> days, any player CAN, by announcement, award em that type of >> Ribbon. > > So until 23:45 on 26 Jun 2020 anyone can *award* me a Black Ribbon. > According to Paragraph 2 of that rule, > >> To "award a person a " is to add that type of Ribbon >> to that person's Ribbon Ownership. A person "owns a " >> if that type of Ribbon is an element of eir Ribbon Ownership. > > I fail to see how any of this constitutes an immediate addition of black > to my ribbon ownership upon this proposal passing unless someone judged > a CFJ that said this and therefore overturned the literal text of the > rules. > > Black (K): A statute CAN, as part of its effect, cause a person to > earn a Black Ribbon. **When this occurs, this Rule awards that > person a Black Ribbon.** Bolding mine. -- Publius Scribonius Scholasticus, Herald, Referee, Tailor, Pirate Champion, Badge of the Great Agoran Revival, Badge of the Salted Earth
Re: BUS: Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Assessor] Resolution of Proposals 8473-8476
On 2020-07-22 16:56, Jason Cobb via agora-discussion wrote: On 7/22/20 6:54 PM, Reuben Staley via agora-discussion wrote: Are you certain? The ribbon terminology is a bit weird but I believe that I do. Rule 2438 awards you the black ribbon because of this paragraph: Black (K): A statute CAN, as part of its effect, cause a person to earn a Black Ribbon. When this occurs, this Rule awards that person a Black Ribbon. The proposal (a statute) caused you to earn a Black Ribbon, so the rule awarded it to you (fulfilling the security restriction on ribbon ownership). I suppose that you're right. Good to know that the ribbon terminology is inconsistent with not only other usages of the same words in the ruleset, but also itself based on which ribbon is being awarded. -- Trigon I LOVE SPAGHETTI transfer Jason one coin nch was here I hereby don't... trust... the dragon... don't... trust... the dragon... Do not Construe Jason's message with subject TRIGON as extending this
Re: BUS: Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Assessor] Resolution of Proposals 8473-8476
On 7/22/20 6:54 PM, Reuben Staley via agora-discussion wrote: > On 2020-07-22 16:41, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus via > agora-discussion wrote: >> On 7/22/20 6:32 PM, Reuben Staley via agora-business wrote: >>> On 2020-07-20 16:12, Reuben Staley wrote: On 2020-07-19 18:12, Reuben Staley via agora-business wrote: > That is to say, I award myself a black glitter, this time on the Public > Forum. As it turns out I do not have a black ribbon yet so the above claim failed. I award myself a black ribbon. >>> As it turns out that was a-d. >>> >>> I award myself a black ribbon. >>> >> You don't have to actively award it, so it doesn't matter. >> > Are you certain? The ribbon terminology is a bit weird but I believe > that I do. > Rule 2438 awards you the black ribbon because of this paragraph: > Black (K): A statute CAN, as part of its effect, cause a person to > earn a Black Ribbon. When this occurs, this Rule awards that > person a Black Ribbon. The proposal (a statute) caused you to earn a Black Ribbon, so the rule awarded it to you (fulfilling the security restriction on ribbon ownership). -- Jason Cobb
Re: BUS: Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Assessor] Resolution of Proposals 8473-8476
On 2020-07-22 16:41, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus via agora-discussion wrote: On 7/22/20 6:32 PM, Reuben Staley via agora-business wrote: On 2020-07-20 16:12, Reuben Staley wrote: On 2020-07-19 18:12, Reuben Staley via agora-business wrote: That is to say, I award myself a black glitter, this time on the Public Forum. As it turns out I do not have a black ribbon yet so the above claim failed. I award myself a black ribbon. As it turns out that was a-d. I award myself a black ribbon. You don't have to actively award it, so it doesn't matter. Are you certain? The ribbon terminology is a bit weird but I believe that I do. From the proposal in question: ID: 8473 Title: Plain Old Bribery Adoption index: 1.0 Author: Jason Co-authors: G. Every player who cast a valid non-withdrawn unconditional ballot FOR this proposal earns a Black Ribbon. I *earned* a Black Ribbon on at 19 Jun 2020 23:45. According to Paragraph 3 of Rule 2438, A person qualifies for a type of Ribbon if e has earned that type of Ribbon within the preceding 7 days (including earlier in the same message). Therefore I *qualify* for a Black Ribbon until 26 Jun 2020 23:45. According to the end of that rule, While a person qualifies for a type of Ribbon: - If e has not owned that type of Ribbon within the preceding 7 days, any player CAN, by announcement, award em that type of Ribbon. So until 23:45 on 26 Jun 2020 anyone can *award* me a Black Ribbon. According to Paragraph 2 of that rule, To "award a person a " is to add that type of Ribbon to that person's Ribbon Ownership. A person "owns a " if that type of Ribbon is an element of eir Ribbon Ownership. I fail to see how any of this constitutes an immediate addition of black to my ribbon ownership upon this proposal passing unless someone judged a CFJ that said this and therefore overturned the literal text of the rules. -- Trigon I LOVE SPAGHETTI transfer Jason one coin nch was here I hereby don't... trust... the dragon... don't... trust... the dragon... Do not Construe Jason's message with subject TRIGON as extending this
Re: BUS: Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Assessor] Resolution of Proposals 8473-8476
On 7/22/20 6:32 PM, Reuben Staley via agora-business wrote: > On 2020-07-20 16:12, Reuben Staley wrote: >> On 2020-07-19 18:12, Reuben Staley via agora-business wrote: >>> That is to say, I award myself a black glitter, this time on the Public >>> Forum. >> >> As it turns out I do not have a black ribbon yet so the above claim >> failed. I award myself a black ribbon. > > As it turns out that was a-d. > > I award myself a black ribbon. > You don't have to actively award it, so it doesn't matter. -- Publius Scribonius Scholasticus, Herald, Referee, Tailor, Pirate Champion, Badge of the Great Agoran Revival, Badge of the Salted Earth
Re: BUS: Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Assessor] Resolution of Proposals 8473-8476
On 2020-07-19 18:12, Reuben Staley via agora-business wrote: That is to say, I award myself a black glitter, this time on the Public Forum. As it turns out I do not have a black ribbon yet so the above claim failed. I award myself a black ribbon. -- Trigon I LOVE SPAGHETTI transfer Jason one coin nch was here I hereby don't... trust... the dragon... don't... trust... the dragon... Do not Construe Jason's message with subject TRIGON as extending this
