Re: DIS: Fora and Accessibility
On 6/20/20 7:12 PM, Reuben Staley via agora-discussion wrote: > Slack is worse imo. It's free for a limited plan, but archiving longer than > 10,000 messages is reserved for paying customers. At least Discord keeps > all the server's messages in storage. > > -- > Trigon Ouch - I guess that's not really an option then. -- Jason Cobb
Re: DIS: Fora and Accessibility
Slack is worse imo. It's free for a limited plan, but archiving longer than 10,000 messages is reserved for paying customers. At least Discord keeps all the server's messages in storage. -- Trigon currently on a phone On Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 17:05 Jason Cobb via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > On 6/20/20 6:40 PM, nch via agora-discussion wrote: > > The one thing Discord is missing that might sway me to a platform that > > has it: The ability for anyone to export the entirety of the chat log > > since the beginning. That'd make it easier to migrate if and when > > discord gets replaced with The Next Big Thing. I don't know if any > > alternatives have that either though. > > > I think Slack has something like that, but you might have to pay for it. > > -- > Jason Cobb > >
Re: DIS: Fora and Accessibility
On Sat, 20 Jun 2020 at 22:24, nch via agora-discussion wrote: > Moving this here because multiple subtopics in one thread was explicitly > mentioned as an accessibility problem in the increasing off-topic > "Leaving..." thread. > > First, I want to simply ask: Do you use IRC, and how often? Do you use > Discord, and how often? I use IRC once in a blue moon and Discord never (just opened it once when someone insisted). I don't mind ephemeral channels being Discussion fora but would be opposed to making them Public. - Falsifian
Re: DIS: Fora and Accessibility
On 6/20/2020 4:00 PM, nch via agora-discussion wrote: > On 6/20/20 5:56 PM, Reuben Staley wrote: >> I do, however, think setting up a chat client for discussion that runs >> alongside a-d would be useful for many things, such as private >> discussion of alliances, bugfixing on proposals and contacts with more >> immediate feedback, and, rather importantly, introducing new players >> to the rules in a less-formal environment. > > This is my thinking. I think Agora Discussion actually covers two > different things: On-Stage Discussion where someone is addressing > everyone or writing something lengthy worth of separate consideration, > and off-stage discussion where what's being said is clarification, only > directed at one person, or otherwise intended to be inconsequential to > the overall flow of the game. It makes sense to put Off-Stage discussion > on a platform that is better suited for it and leave the On-Stage things > here. Also, we found that when people start to get heated and snippy in email, going to live chat they pretty much start laughing about it or emoting to better convey tone and it diffuses things much more quickly than on email (where if something is annoying you, you tend to dwell on it more while composing a snarky or annoyed reply).
Re: DIS: Fora and Accessibility
On 6/20/20 6:40 PM, nch via agora-discussion wrote: > The one thing Discord is missing that might sway me to a platform that > has it: The ability for anyone to export the entirety of the chat log > since the beginning. That'd make it easier to migrate if and when > discord gets replaced with The Next Big Thing. I don't know if any > alternatives have that either though. I think Slack has something like that, but you might have to pay for it. -- Jason Cobb
Re: DIS: Fora and Accessibility
On 6/20/20 6:23 PM, nch via agora-discussion wrote: > Moving this here because multiple subtopics in one thread was explicitly > mentioned as an accessibility problem in the increasing off-topic > "Leaving..." thread. > > First, I want to simply ask: Do you use IRC, and how often? Do you use > Discord, and how often? IRC: never Discord: pretty much everyday (although this should not be construed as an endorsement of moving stuff to it) -- Jason Cobb
Re: DIS: Fora and Accessibility
On 6/20/20 5:56 PM, Reuben Staley wrote: > I do, however, think setting up a chat client for discussion that runs > alongside a-d would be useful for many things, such as private > discussion of alliances, bugfixing on proposals and contacts with more > immediate feedback, and, rather importantly, introducing new players > to the rules in a less-formal environment. This is my thinking. I think Agora Discussion actually covers two different things: On-Stage Discussion where someone is addressing everyone or writing something lengthy worth of separate consideration, and off-stage discussion where what's being said is clarification, only directed at one person, or otherwise intended to be inconsequential to the overall flow of the game. It makes sense to put Off-Stage discussion on a platform that is better suited for it and leave the On-Stage things here. -- nch Prime Minister, Webmastor, NAX Exchange Manager
Re: DIS: Fora and Accessibility
On 6/20/2020 3:47 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus wrote: > I think there are valid criticisms of how we use email, and we could adopt > guidelines to change that, but if we started to use Discord or anything other > than IRC or email for significant amounts of discussion, I think I’d leave > because those platforms lend themselves to less verbose and thoughtful > discussion and I find them a pain to use. So, keep in mind that attracting > new players isn’t necessarily worth alienating those of us who are already > here. Sure, support different things for different purposes! - long in-depth discussions and dissections of text (cfjs, proposals). those should still be the meat of Agora, I 100% agree. Stay in email. - historical/ratified documents: email or git. - mostly fixed minor transactions (transfers, rewards) - a dedicated but limited email channel with strict Signalling requirements. Or a web interface. - when a discussion is going back and forth quibbling details of a proposal, "take it to discord" (or whatever platform, I'm neutral) is good. - When IRC channel was active, it spawned a more informal chatty sort of interaction that's great for brainstorming. And it was great for new players the chattiness made them ask more questions. There was a lot of free association of ideas and in the middle of it someone says "good idea!" and suddenly there's a proto-proposal on email. I miss that, and it didn't detract from the in-depth discussions (even when I wasn't on IRC I benifitted from the brainstorming that came up there). - MUD/MOO - h
Re: DIS: Fora and Accessibility
I would not suggest that we change *all* discussion to such a platform. I would not say that long-form discussion is discouraged there, but it's definitely harder to have multiple concurrent discussions on different proposals. I have learned that by playing many Discord nomics. Discord furthermore lacks a good method of archival, meaning discussion would be much harder to reference. I do, however, think setting up a chat client for discussion that runs alongside a-d would be useful for many things, such as private discussion of alliances, bugfixing on proposals and contacts with more immediate feedback, and, rather importantly, introducing new players to the rules in a less-formal environment. -- Trigon currently on a phone On Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 16:24 nch via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > Moving this here because multiple subtopics in one thread was explicitly > mentioned as an accessibility problem in the increasing off-topic > "Leaving..." thread. > > First, I want to simply ask: Do you use IRC, and how often? Do you use > Discord, and how often? > > Reducing the chatter in a-d by moving things to a chat based client > seems like it'd have a lot of readability benefits. > > -- > nch > Prime Minister, Webmastor, NAX Exchange Manager > > >
Re: DIS: Fora and Accessibility
> The ability for anyone to export the entirety of the chat log since the beginning. There's (TOS-violating, but still) chrome plugins for this. Bögtil Den sön 21 juni 2020 kl 00:41 skrev nch via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org>: > On 6/20/20 5:23 PM, nch via agora-discussion wrote: > > Moving this here because multiple subtopics in one thread was explicitly > > mentioned as an accessibility problem in the increasing off-topic > > "Leaving..." thread. > > > > First, I want to simply ask: Do you use IRC, and how often? Do you use > > Discord, and how often? > > > > Reducing the chatter in a-d by moving things to a chat based client > > seems like it'd have a lot of readability benefits. > > > > -- > > nch > > Prime Minister, Webmastor, NAX Exchange Manager > > > > > Sorry Trigon, I received your thread basically asking the same thing at > the same time I sent this one. But I'm gonna pull PM and Webmastor > privilege and respond in my thread :p > > I haven't used IRC in years, and I use Discord daily. I don't mind a > proprietary platform as long as we aren't locked to it, and if we're > just moving discussion there then we aren't. The big advantage is that > it has the most user share right now, which makes it a real > accessibility tool. If someone has to install and use a tool they've > never used before to ask basic questions, that doesn't add much usability. > > The one thing Discord is missing that might sway me to a platform that > has it: The ability for anyone to export the entirety of the chat log > since the beginning. That'd make it easier to migrate if and when > discord gets replaced with The Next Big Thing. I don't know if any > alternatives have that either though. > > -- > nch > Prime Minister, Webmastor, NAX Exchange Manager > > >
Re: DIS: Fora and Accessibility
On 6/20/20 5:47 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus wrote: > I think there are valid criticisms of how we use email, and we could adopt > guidelines to change that, but if we started to use Discord or anything other > than IRC or email for significant amounts of discussion, I think I’d leave > because those platforms lend themselves to less verbose and thoughtful > discussion and I find them a pain to use. So, keep in mind that attracting > new players isn’t necessarily worth alienating those of us who are already > here. Totally agreed on not wanting to alienate anyone (thus the poll), and on the limitations of chat for long-form (though I don't understand how IRC isn't outright worse than Discord for that...). But we can also regulate how we use those platforms. I personally would use it to ask and answer short questions. If I wanted to say something to every player, or something that involves multiple paragraphs, I would still want to use email. -- nch Prime Minister, Webmastor, NAX Exchange Manager
Re: DIS: Fora and Accessibility
I think there are valid criticisms of how we use email, and we could adopt guidelines to change that, but if we started to use Discord or anything other than IRC or email for significant amounts of discussion, I think I’d leave because those platforms lend themselves to less verbose and thoughtful discussion and I find them a pain to use. So, keep in mind that attracting new players isn’t necessarily worth alienating those of us who are already here. > On Jun 20, 2020, at 18:23, nch via agora-discussion > wrote: > > Moving this here because multiple subtopics in one thread was explicitly > mentioned as an accessibility problem in the increasing off-topic > "Leaving..." thread. > > First, I want to simply ask: Do you use IRC, and how often? Do you use > Discord, and how often? > > Reducing the chatter in a-d by moving things to a chat based client > seems like it'd have a lot of readability benefits. > > -- > nch > Prime Minister, Webmastor, NAX Exchange Manager > >
Re: DIS: Fora and Accessibility
On 6/20/20 5:23 PM, nch via agora-discussion wrote: > Moving this here because multiple subtopics in one thread was explicitly > mentioned as an accessibility problem in the increasing off-topic > "Leaving..." thread. > > First, I want to simply ask: Do you use IRC, and how often? Do you use > Discord, and how often? > > Reducing the chatter in a-d by moving things to a chat based client > seems like it'd have a lot of readability benefits. > > -- > nch > Prime Minister, Webmastor, NAX Exchange Manager > > Sorry Trigon, I received your thread basically asking the same thing at the same time I sent this one. But I'm gonna pull PM and Webmastor privilege and respond in my thread :p I haven't used IRC in years, and I use Discord daily. I don't mind a proprietary platform as long as we aren't locked to it, and if we're just moving discussion there then we aren't. The big advantage is that it has the most user share right now, which makes it a real accessibility tool. If someone has to install and use a tool they've never used before to ask basic questions, that doesn't add much usability. The one thing Discord is missing that might sway me to a platform that has it: The ability for anyone to export the entirety of the chat log since the beginning. That'd make it easier to migrate if and when discord gets replaced with The Next Big Thing. I don't know if any alternatives have that either though. -- nch Prime Minister, Webmastor, NAX Exchange Manager
DIS: Fora and Accessibility
Moving this here because multiple subtopics in one thread was explicitly mentioned as an accessibility problem in the increasing off-topic "Leaving..." thread. First, I want to simply ask: Do you use IRC, and how often? Do you use Discord, and how often? Reducing the chatter in a-d by moving things to a chat based client seems like it'd have a lot of readability benefits. -- nch Prime Minister, Webmastor, NAX Exchange Manager
