DIS: Re: BUS: (CFJ judgement, Glitter) Re: OFF: [referee for Arbitor] CFJ 3946 assigned to ais523

[Edward Murphy via agora-discussion]

ais523 wrote:


I judge CFJ 3946 FALSE. I award myself Blue Glitter.


I award 9 BoC (549 coins) to ais523.

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: CFJ judgement

[Ørjan Johansen]

But there's no pun in that. (Also, product[1..x] is shorter.addict>)


Greetings,
Ørjan.

On Mon, 17 Jul 2017, Josh T wrote:


I kind of prefer
fact x = foldl (*) 1 [1..x]
myself.

天火狐

On 16 July 2017 at 11:16, Ørjan Johansen  wrote:


On Sun, 16 Jul 2017, V.J Rada wrote:

fun fact: i'm dumb




fun fact 0 = 1 | fact n = n * fact (n - 1)

Greetings,
Ørjan.

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: CFJ judgement

[Josh T]

I kind of prefer
fact x = foldl (*) 1 [1..x]
myself.

天火狐

On 16 July 2017 at 11:16, Ørjan Johansen  wrote:

> On Sun, 16 Jul 2017, V.J Rada wrote:
>
> fun fact: i'm dumb
>>
>
> fun fact 0 = 1 | fact n = n * fact (n - 1)
>
> Greetings,
> Ørjan.

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: CFJ judgement

[Ørjan Johansen]

On Sun, 16 Jul 2017, V.J Rada wrote:


fun fact: i'm dumb


fun fact 0 = 1 | fact n = n * fact (n - 1)

Greetings,
Ørjan.

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: CFJ judgement

[V.J Rada]

fun fact: i'm dumb



On Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 1:28 PM, Owen Jacobson  wrote:

>
> On Jul 8, 2017, at 2:34 PM, V.J Rada  wrote:
>
> Fun fact: when an organization is transferred an Estate, it can never
> leave. rito plz.
>
>
> Are you sure? Rule 2489 (“Estates”) purports to handle that case:
>
> A player may cause an Organization which owns an Estate to transfer
> that Estate to any player, to any Organization, or to Agora, by
> announcement, if it is Appropriate to do so under that Organization's
> charter.
>
>
> What am I missing?
>
> -o
>
>

DIS: Re: BUS: CFJ judgement

[Quazie]

 You didn't cite which CFJ so I don't know what you actually did in the
quoted message

On Sat, Jul 8, 2017 at 11:34 AM V.J Rada  wrote:

> I call for reconsideration (again) and submit the following judgement of
> FALSE
>
> 1. Facts
> Despite (at the time, at least) not being the Surveyor, Cuddlebeam
> attempted to
> initiate 5 auctions for Estates. Four of these were of Estates owned by
> Agora, and one was owned by a private party. E then called this CFJ to
> determine whether any auction was indeed ongoing. While an auction is
> currently ongoing, it is an oft-repeated maxim that CFJs shall be judged on
> the facts at the calling of the CFJ. The question in this case is whether a
> player can initiate auctions for any Estate by announcement and if not,
> whether they may initate auctions for only private Estates or only Agoran
> estates.
> 2.The meaning of the word auction
> Without resorting to any dictionaries, an auction means to me a sale in
> which people bid for an item and the person who bid the most wins the item.
> A dictionary definition of auction is similar: an auction is "a public
> sale in which goods or property are sold to the highest bidder." The
> previously run auction for Estates worked in a similar way. There has been
> some controversy about whether or not an auction with no possibility of
> sale is indeed an auction. I ruled that it was not. PSS contended that
> because under the current rules' provision for auctions, the auction itself
> did not transfer Estates, my interpretation would render all auctions
> invalid. However, I here affirm my previous ruling. The player transferring
> the Estate to emself is similar to a person at a car auction grabbing the
> item they bought. Even if transfer is not guarenteed, it is likely. I hold
> that under the common sense, dictionary and game practise meaning of the
> word "auction", a purported auction that is unlikely or impossible to
> result in a transfer of the auctioned Estate
> is no auction at all.
> 3.Josh's Estate
> I hold that the Estate Josh T holds cannot be transferred and thus no
> auction is taking place for the Estate of Antegria (under the facts at the
> time of the calling). The Rules state that "A player who owns an Estate
> can and may transfer it to any player, to any Organization, or to Agora,
> by announcement.". This clearly regulates the transferring of Estates and
> places two conditions on it ("a player who owns an Estate" and "by
> announcement". It is clear neither CB nor anyone else may transfer Josh's
> estate to anyone else because they do not meet the restrictions. Fun fact:
> when an organization is transferred an Estate, it can never leave. rito plz.
> 4. Agoran Estates
> Agora is not a sentient being (yet) and cannot act on its own behalf to
> transfer Estates it owns. Therefore the rules create another way for
> Estates to be transferred. By an auction initiated by the Surveyor. However
> it also makes the judgement that this should only be done by the Surveyor,
> once a month. CB is not the Surveyor, and he is attempting to initiate four
> auctions at once. It is clear that the rules "limit" the action of
> initiating an auction to the Surveyor. Previous judgements and messages
> have invoked Generalia Specialibus Non Derogant, but that statutory cannon
> applies to two conflicting statutes. I would instead invoke the principle
> of both Agora and common law systems that a Rule or legislative decision
> overrides any murky general ability to do something. CB's attempted actions
> are outside the regulatory framework and therefore not effective. It was
> clearly the intent of the writers of the rule for one Auction to happen at
> once, and CB's action would disrupt the intent.
>
> FALSE
>

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: CFJ judgement

[V.J Rada]

I agree I didn't successfully reconsider because I already did so.
However I believe it was not ambiguous, as I am only assigned one CFJ, the
content of which was clearly adressed in the body of the message. This is
pointless quibbling though. If anyone thinks the previous reasoning is
woefully inadequate, there is a Motion to Moot which needs one more
supporter and I reccommend REMAND to replace the second one. If anyone
thinks the second one is still woefully inadequate, support the motion and
vote
REMIT.

On Sat, Jul 8, 2017 at 7:52 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus <
p.scribonius.scholasti...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> Okay, I now get it. But, you still didn’t successfully reconsider because
> it is ambiguous which CFJ this is for, while you don’t need to state the
> number, it needs to be clear and you haven’t even stated the statement.
> 
> Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
> p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com
>
>
>
> > On Jul 8, 2017, at 2:43 PM, V.J Rada  wrote:
> >
> > no you're right it can be done once count it as supplementary reasoning.
> although i don't think it needs to say the number as CFJ numbering is
> totally unofficial. I am judging 1 CFJ right now. It's clear which one I
> mean.
> >
> > e attempted to say that auctions were totally unregulated and e could
> call one by anouncement. then he called this cfj and that's what it says.
> THEN he tried to deputize. if i'm wrong i reccommend mooting and judging
> this one as IRRELEVANT because there's a CFJ on the deputization issue.
> >
> > On Sat, Jul 8, 2017 at 7:40 PM, V.J Rada  wrote:
> > no the deputization was a different thing and a different cfj
> >
> > On Sat, Jul 8, 2017 at 7:39 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus <
> p.scribonius.scholasti...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > You overlook the major point that he was attempting to put them up for
> auction by deputisation not by announcement. Also, you can't motion to
> reconsider given that a motion to reconsider has already occurred. Even if
> you could, you never state what CFJ this is for, therefore I believe this
> is completely ineffective.
> > 
> > Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
> > p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Jul 8, 2017, at 2:34 PM, V.J Rada  wrote:
> > >
> > > I call for reconsideration (again) and submit the following judgement
> of FALSE
> > >
> > > 1. Facts
> > > Despite (at the time, at least) not being the Surveyor, Cuddlebeam
> attempted to
> > > initiate 5 auctions for Estates. Four of these were of Estates owned
> by Agora, and one was owned by a private party. E then called this CFJ to
> determine whether any auction was indeed ongoing. While an auction is
> currently ongoing, it is an oft-repeated maxim that CFJs shall be judged on
> the facts at the calling of the CFJ. The question in this case is whether a
> player can initiate auctions for any Estate by announcement and if not,
> whether they may initate auctions for only private Estates or only Agoran
> estates.
> > > 2.The meaning of the word auction
> > > Without resorting to any dictionaries, an auction means to me a sale
> in which people bid for an item and the person who bid the most wins the
> item. A dictionary definition of auction is similar: an auction is "a
> public sale in which goods or property are sold to the highest bidder." The
> previously run auction for Estates worked in a similar way. There has been
> some controversy about whether or not an auction with no possibility of
> sale is indeed an auction. I ruled that it was not. PSS contended that
> because under the current rules' provision for auctions, the auction itself
> did not transfer Estates, my interpretation would render all auctions
> invalid. However, I here affirm my previous ruling. The player transferring
> the Estate to emself is similar to a person at a car auction grabbing the
> item they bought. Even if transfer is not guarenteed, it is likely. I hold
> that under the common sense, dictionary and game practise meaning of the
> word "auction", a purported auction that is unlikely or impossible to
> result in a transfer of the auctioned Estate
> > > is no auction at all.
> > > 3.Josh's Estate
> > > I hold that the Estate Josh T holds cannot be transferred and thus no
> auction is taking place for the Estate of Antegria (under the facts at the
> time of the calling). The Rules state that "A player who owns an Estate can
> and may transfer it to any player, to any Organization, or to Agora, by
> announcement.". This clearly regulates the transferring of Estates and
> places two conditions on it ("a player who owns an Estate" and "by
> announcement". It is clear neither CB nor anyone else may transfer Josh's
> estate to anyone else because they do not meet the restrictions. Fun fact:
> when an organization is transferred an Estate, it can never leave. rito plz.
> > > 4. Agoran Estates
> > > Agora is not a sentient being (yet) and 

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: CFJ judgement

[Publius Scribonius Scholasticus]

Okay, I now get it. But, you still didn’t successfully reconsider because it is 
ambiguous which CFJ this is for, while you don’t need to state the number, it 
needs to be clear and you haven’t even stated the statement.

Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com



> On Jul 8, 2017, at 2:43 PM, V.J Rada  wrote:
> 
> no you're right it can be done once count it as supplementary reasoning. 
> although i don't think it needs to say the number as CFJ numbering is totally 
> unofficial. I am judging 1 CFJ right now. It's clear which one I mean.
> 
> e attempted to say that auctions were totally unregulated and e could call 
> one by anouncement. then he called this cfj and that's what it says. THEN he 
> tried to deputize. if i'm wrong i reccommend mooting and judging this one as 
> IRRELEVANT because there's a CFJ on the deputization issue.
> 
> On Sat, Jul 8, 2017 at 7:40 PM, V.J Rada  wrote:
> no the deputization was a different thing and a different cfj
> 
> On Sat, Jul 8, 2017 at 7:39 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus 
>  wrote:
> You overlook the major point that he was attempting to put them up for 
> auction by deputisation not by announcement. Also, you can't motion to 
> reconsider given that a motion to reconsider has already occurred. Even if 
> you could, you never state what CFJ this is for, therefore I believe this is 
> completely ineffective.
> 
> Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
> p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> > On Jul 8, 2017, at 2:34 PM, V.J Rada  wrote:
> >
> > I call for reconsideration (again) and submit the following judgement of 
> > FALSE
> >
> > 1. Facts
> > Despite (at the time, at least) not being the Surveyor, Cuddlebeam 
> > attempted to
> > initiate 5 auctions for Estates. Four of these were of Estates owned by 
> > Agora, and one was owned by a private party. E then called this CFJ to 
> > determine whether any auction was indeed ongoing. While an auction is 
> > currently ongoing, it is an oft-repeated maxim that CFJs shall be judged on 
> > the facts at the calling of the CFJ. The question in this case is whether a 
> > player can initiate auctions for any Estate by announcement and if not, 
> > whether they may initate auctions for only private Estates or only Agoran 
> > estates.
> > 2.The meaning of the word auction
> > Without resorting to any dictionaries, an auction means to me a sale in 
> > which people bid for an item and the person who bid the most wins the item. 
> > A dictionary definition of auction is similar: an auction is "a public sale 
> > in which goods or property are sold to the highest bidder." The previously 
> > run auction for Estates worked in a similar way. There has been some 
> > controversy about whether or not an auction with no possibility of sale is 
> > indeed an auction. I ruled that it was not. PSS contended that because 
> > under the current rules' provision for auctions, the auction itself did not 
> > transfer Estates, my interpretation would render all auctions invalid. 
> > However, I here affirm my previous ruling. The player transferring the 
> > Estate to emself is similar to a person at a car auction grabbing the item 
> > they bought. Even if transfer is not guarenteed, it is likely. I hold that 
> > under the common sense, dictionary and game practise meaning of the word 
> > "auction", a purported auction that is unlikely or impossible to result in 
> > a transfer of the auctioned Estate
> > is no auction at all.
> > 3.Josh's Estate
> > I hold that the Estate Josh T holds cannot be transferred and thus no 
> > auction is taking place for the Estate of Antegria (under the facts at the 
> > time of the calling). The Rules state that "A player who owns an Estate can 
> > and may transfer it to any player, to any Organization, or to Agora, by 
> > announcement.". This clearly regulates the transferring of Estates and 
> > places two conditions on it ("a player who owns an Estate" and "by 
> > announcement". It is clear neither CB nor anyone else may transfer Josh's 
> > estate to anyone else because they do not meet the restrictions. Fun fact: 
> > when an organization is transferred an Estate, it can never leave. rito plz.
> > 4. Agoran Estates
> > Agora is not a sentient being (yet) and cannot act on its own behalf to 
> > transfer Estates it owns. Therefore the rules create another way for 
> > Estates to be transferred. By an auction initiated by the Surveyor. However 
> > it also makes the judgement that this should only be done by the Surveyor, 
> > once a month. CB is not the Surveyor, and he is attempting to initiate four 
> > auctions at once. It is clear that the rules "limit" the action of 
> > initiating an auction to the Surveyor. Previous judgements and messages 
> > have invoked Generalia Specialibus Non Derogant, but that statutory cannon 
> > applies to two 

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: CFJ judgement

[V.J Rada]

https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-business/2017-July/035260.html
 is the message relevant here.

Yeah just count the above as unofficial explanation and also note that I
meant
paragraph four to apply only to auctions of Agora's property, not of that
 belonging to private parties. The previous judgement is still sufficient.


On Sat, Jul 8, 2017 at 7:36 PM, V.J Rada  wrote:

> "a person at a car auction grabbing the item they bought"
>
> seems pretty legit imo.
>
> On Sat, Jul 8, 2017 at 7:34 PM, V.J Rada  wrote:
>
>> I call for reconsideration (again) and submit the following judgement of
>> FALSE
>>
>> 1. Facts
>> Despite (at the time, at least) not being the Surveyor, Cuddlebeam
>> attempted to
>> initiate 5 auctions for Estates. Four of these were of Estates owned by
>> Agora, and one was owned by a private party. E then called this CFJ to
>> determine whether any auction was indeed ongoing. While an auction is
>> currently ongoing, it is an oft-repeated maxim that CFJs shall be judged on
>> the facts at the calling of the CFJ. The question in this case is whether a
>> player can initiate auctions for any Estate by announcement and if not,
>> whether they may initate auctions for only private Estates or only Agoran
>> estates.
>> 2.The meaning of the word auction
>> Without resorting to any dictionaries, an auction means to me a sale in
>> which people bid for an item and the person who bid the most wins the item.
>> A dictionary definition of auction is similar: an auction is "a public
>> sale in which goods or property are sold to the highest bidder." The
>> previously run auction for Estates worked in a similar way. There has been
>> some controversy about whether or not an auction with no possibility of
>> sale is indeed an auction. I ruled that it was not. PSS contended that
>> because under the current rules' provision for auctions, the auction itself
>> did not transfer Estates, my interpretation would render all auctions
>> invalid. However, I here affirm my previous ruling. The player transferring
>> the Estate to emself is similar to a person at a car auction grabbing the
>> item they bought. Even if transfer is not guarenteed, it is likely. I hold
>> that under the common sense, dictionary and game practise meaning of the
>> word "auction", a purported auction that is unlikely or impossible to
>> result in a transfer of the auctioned Estate
>> is no auction at all.
>> 3.Josh's Estate
>> I hold that the Estate Josh T holds cannot be transferred and thus no
>> auction is taking place for the Estate of Antegria (under the facts at the
>> time of the calling). The Rules state that "A player who owns an Estate
>> can and may transfer it to any player, to any Organization, or to Agora,
>> by announcement.". This clearly regulates the transferring of Estates and
>> places two conditions on it ("a player who owns an Estate" and "by
>> announcement". It is clear neither CB nor anyone else may transfer Josh's
>> estate to anyone else because they do not meet the restrictions. Fun fact:
>> when an organization is transferred an Estate, it can never leave. rito plz.
>> 4. Agoran Estates
>> Agora is not a sentient being (yet) and cannot act on its own behalf to
>> transfer Estates it owns. Therefore the rules create another way for
>> Estates to be transferred. By an auction initiated by the Surveyor. However
>> it also makes the judgement that this should only be done by the Surveyor,
>> once a month. CB is not the Surveyor, and he is attempting to initiate four
>> auctions at once. It is clear that the rules "limit" the action of
>> initiating an auction to the Surveyor. Previous judgements and messages
>> have invoked Generalia Specialibus Non Derogant, but that statutory cannon
>> applies to two conflicting statutes. I would instead invoke the principle
>> of both Agora and common law systems that a Rule or legislative decision
>> overrides any murky general ability to do something. CB's attempted actions
>> are outside the regulatory framework and therefore not effective. It was
>> clearly the intent of the writers of the rule for one Auction to happen at
>> once, and CB's action would disrupt the intent.
>>
>> FALSE
>>
>
>

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: CFJ judgement

[V.J Rada]

no you're right it can be done once count it as supplementary reasoning.
although i don't think it needs to say the number as CFJ numbering is
totally unofficial. I am judging 1 CFJ right now. It's clear which one I
mean.

e attempted to say that auctions were totally unregulated and e could call
one by anouncement. then he called this cfj and that's what it says. THEN
he tried to deputize. if i'm wrong i reccommend mooting and judging this
one as IRRELEVANT because there's a CFJ on the deputization issue.

On Sat, Jul 8, 2017 at 7:40 PM, V.J Rada  wrote:

> no the deputization was a different thing and a different cfj
>
> On Sat, Jul 8, 2017 at 7:39 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus <
> p.scribonius.scholasti...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>> You overlook the major point that he was attempting to put them up for
>> auction by deputisation not by announcement. Also, you can't motion to
>> reconsider given that a motion to reconsider has already occurred. Even if
>> you could, you never state what CFJ this is for, therefore I believe this
>> is completely ineffective.
>> 
>> Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
>> p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Jul 8, 2017, at 2:34 PM, V.J Rada  wrote:
>> >
>> > I call for reconsideration (again) and submit the following judgement
>> of FALSE
>> >
>> > 1. Facts
>> > Despite (at the time, at least) not being the Surveyor, Cuddlebeam
>> attempted to
>> > initiate 5 auctions for Estates. Four of these were of Estates owned by
>> Agora, and one was owned by a private party. E then called this CFJ to
>> determine whether any auction was indeed ongoing. While an auction is
>> currently ongoing, it is an oft-repeated maxim that CFJs shall be judged on
>> the facts at the calling of the CFJ. The question in this case is whether a
>> player can initiate auctions for any Estate by announcement and if not,
>> whether they may initate auctions for only private Estates or only Agoran
>> estates.
>> > 2.The meaning of the word auction
>> > Without resorting to any dictionaries, an auction means to me a sale in
>> which people bid for an item and the person who bid the most wins the item.
>> A dictionary definition of auction is similar: an auction is "a public sale
>> in which goods or property are sold to the highest bidder." The previously
>> run auction for Estates worked in a similar way. There has been some
>> controversy about whether or not an auction with no possibility of sale is
>> indeed an auction. I ruled that it was not. PSS contended that because
>> under the current rules' provision for auctions, the auction itself did not
>> transfer Estates, my interpretation would render all auctions invalid.
>> However, I here affirm my previous ruling. The player transferring the
>> Estate to emself is similar to a person at a car auction grabbing the item
>> they bought. Even if transfer is not guarenteed, it is likely. I hold that
>> under the common sense, dictionary and game practise meaning of the word
>> "auction", a purported auction that is unlikely or impossible to result in
>> a transfer of the auctioned Estate
>> > is no auction at all.
>> > 3.Josh's Estate
>> > I hold that the Estate Josh T holds cannot be transferred and thus no
>> auction is taking place for the Estate of Antegria (under the facts at the
>> time of the calling). The Rules state that "A player who owns an Estate can
>> and may transfer it to any player, to any Organization, or to Agora, by
>> announcement.". This clearly regulates the transferring of Estates and
>> places two conditions on it ("a player who owns an Estate" and "by
>> announcement". It is clear neither CB nor anyone else may transfer Josh's
>> estate to anyone else because they do not meet the restrictions. Fun fact:
>> when an organization is transferred an Estate, it can never leave. rito plz.
>> > 4. Agoran Estates
>> > Agora is not a sentient being (yet) and cannot act on its own behalf to
>> transfer Estates it owns. Therefore the rules create another way for
>> Estates to be transferred. By an auction initiated by the Surveyor. However
>> it also makes the judgement that this should only be done by the Surveyor,
>> once a month. CB is not the Surveyor, and he is attempting to initiate four
>> auctions at once. It is clear that the rules "limit" the action of
>> initiating an auction to the Surveyor. Previous judgements and messages
>> have invoked Generalia Specialibus Non Derogant, but that statutory cannon
>> applies to two conflicting statutes. I would instead invoke the principle
>> of both Agora and common law systems that a Rule or legislative decision
>> overrides any murky general ability to do something. CB's attempted actions
>> are outside the regulatory framework and therefore not effective. It was
>> clearly the intent of the writers of the rule for one Auction to happen at
>> once, and CB's action would disrupt the intent.
>> >
>> > FALSE
>>
>>
>

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: CFJ judgement

[V.J Rada]

no the deputization was a different thing and a different cfj

On Sat, Jul 8, 2017 at 7:39 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus <
p.scribonius.scholasti...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> You overlook the major point that he was attempting to put them up for
> auction by deputisation not by announcement. Also, you can't motion to
> reconsider given that a motion to reconsider has already occurred. Even if
> you could, you never state what CFJ this is for, therefore I believe this
> is completely ineffective.
> 
> Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
> p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com
>
>
>
> > On Jul 8, 2017, at 2:34 PM, V.J Rada  wrote:
> >
> > I call for reconsideration (again) and submit the following judgement of
> FALSE
> >
> > 1. Facts
> > Despite (at the time, at least) not being the Surveyor, Cuddlebeam
> attempted to
> > initiate 5 auctions for Estates. Four of these were of Estates owned by
> Agora, and one was owned by a private party. E then called this CFJ to
> determine whether any auction was indeed ongoing. While an auction is
> currently ongoing, it is an oft-repeated maxim that CFJs shall be judged on
> the facts at the calling of the CFJ. The question in this case is whether a
> player can initiate auctions for any Estate by announcement and if not,
> whether they may initate auctions for only private Estates or only Agoran
> estates.
> > 2.The meaning of the word auction
> > Without resorting to any dictionaries, an auction means to me a sale in
> which people bid for an item and the person who bid the most wins the item.
> A dictionary definition of auction is similar: an auction is "a public sale
> in which goods or property are sold to the highest bidder." The previously
> run auction for Estates worked in a similar way. There has been some
> controversy about whether or not an auction with no possibility of sale is
> indeed an auction. I ruled that it was not. PSS contended that because
> under the current rules' provision for auctions, the auction itself did not
> transfer Estates, my interpretation would render all auctions invalid.
> However, I here affirm my previous ruling. The player transferring the
> Estate to emself is similar to a person at a car auction grabbing the item
> they bought. Even if transfer is not guarenteed, it is likely. I hold that
> under the common sense, dictionary and game practise meaning of the word
> "auction", a purported auction that is unlikely or impossible to result in
> a transfer of the auctioned Estate
> > is no auction at all.
> > 3.Josh's Estate
> > I hold that the Estate Josh T holds cannot be transferred and thus no
> auction is taking place for the Estate of Antegria (under the facts at the
> time of the calling). The Rules state that "A player who owns an Estate can
> and may transfer it to any player, to any Organization, or to Agora, by
> announcement.". This clearly regulates the transferring of Estates and
> places two conditions on it ("a player who owns an Estate" and "by
> announcement". It is clear neither CB nor anyone else may transfer Josh's
> estate to anyone else because they do not meet the restrictions. Fun fact:
> when an organization is transferred an Estate, it can never leave. rito plz.
> > 4. Agoran Estates
> > Agora is not a sentient being (yet) and cannot act on its own behalf to
> transfer Estates it owns. Therefore the rules create another way for
> Estates to be transferred. By an auction initiated by the Surveyor. However
> it also makes the judgement that this should only be done by the Surveyor,
> once a month. CB is not the Surveyor, and he is attempting to initiate four
> auctions at once. It is clear that the rules "limit" the action of
> initiating an auction to the Surveyor. Previous judgements and messages
> have invoked Generalia Specialibus Non Derogant, but that statutory cannon
> applies to two conflicting statutes. I would instead invoke the principle
> of both Agora and common law systems that a Rule or legislative decision
> overrides any murky general ability to do something. CB's attempted actions
> are outside the regulatory framework and therefore not effective. It was
> clearly the intent of the writers of the rule for one Auction to happen at
> once, and CB's action would disrupt the intent.
> >
> > FALSE
>
>

DIS: Re: BUS: CFJ judgement

[Publius Scribonius Scholasticus]

You overlook the major point that he was attempting to put them up for auction 
by deputisation not by announcement. Also, you can't motion to reconsider given 
that a motion to reconsider has already occurred. Even if you could, you never 
state what CFJ this is for, therefore I believe this is completely ineffective.

Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com



> On Jul 8, 2017, at 2:34 PM, V.J Rada  wrote:
> 
> I call for reconsideration (again) and submit the following judgement of FALSE
> 
> 1. Facts
> Despite (at the time, at least) not being the Surveyor, Cuddlebeam attempted 
> to
> initiate 5 auctions for Estates. Four of these were of Estates owned by 
> Agora, and one was owned by a private party. E then called this CFJ to 
> determine whether any auction was indeed ongoing. While an auction is 
> currently ongoing, it is an oft-repeated maxim that CFJs shall be judged on 
> the facts at the calling of the CFJ. The question in this case is whether a 
> player can initiate auctions for any Estate by announcement and if not, 
> whether they may initate auctions for only private Estates or only Agoran 
> estates.
> 2.The meaning of the word auction
> Without resorting to any dictionaries, an auction means to me a sale in which 
> people bid for an item and the person who bid the most wins the item. A 
> dictionary definition of auction is similar: an auction is "a public sale in 
> which goods or property are sold to the highest bidder." The previously run 
> auction for Estates worked in a similar way. There has been some controversy 
> about whether or not an auction with no possibility of sale is indeed an 
> auction. I ruled that it was not. PSS contended that because under the 
> current rules' provision for auctions, the auction itself did not transfer 
> Estates, my interpretation would render all auctions invalid. However, I here 
> affirm my previous ruling. The player transferring the Estate to emself is 
> similar to a person at a car auction grabbing the item they bought. Even if 
> transfer is not guarenteed, it is likely. I hold that under the common sense, 
> dictionary and game practise meaning of the word "auction", a purported 
> auction that is unlikely or impossible to result in a transfer of the 
> auctioned Estate
> is no auction at all.
> 3.Josh's Estate
> I hold that the Estate Josh T holds cannot be transferred and thus no auction 
> is taking place for the Estate of Antegria (under the facts at the time of 
> the calling). The Rules state that "A player who owns an Estate can and may 
> transfer it to any player, to any Organization, or to Agora, by 
> announcement.". This clearly regulates the transferring of Estates and places 
> two conditions on it ("a player who owns an Estate" and "by announcement". It 
> is clear neither CB nor anyone else may transfer Josh's estate to anyone else 
> because they do not meet the restrictions. Fun fact: when an organization is 
> transferred an Estate, it can never leave. rito plz.
> 4. Agoran Estates
> Agora is not a sentient being (yet) and cannot act on its own behalf to 
> transfer Estates it owns. Therefore the rules create another way for Estates 
> to be transferred. By an auction initiated by the Surveyor. However it also 
> makes the judgement that this should only be done by the Surveyor, once a 
> month. CB is not the Surveyor, and he is attempting to initiate four auctions 
> at once. It is clear that the rules "limit" the action of initiating an 
> auction to the Surveyor. Previous judgements and messages have invoked 
> Generalia Specialibus Non Derogant, but that statutory cannon applies to two 
> conflicting statutes. I would instead invoke the principle of both Agora and 
> common law systems that a Rule or legislative decision overrides any murky 
> general ability to do something. CB's attempted actions are outside the 
> regulatory framework and therefore not effective. It was clearly the intent 
> of the writers of the rule for one Auction to happen at once, and CB's action 
> would disrupt the intent.
> 
> FALSE



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DIS: Re: BUS: CFJ judgement

[V.J Rada]

"a person at a car auction grabbing the item they bought"

seems pretty legit imo.

On Sat, Jul 8, 2017 at 7:34 PM, V.J Rada  wrote:

> I call for reconsideration (again) and submit the following judgement of
> FALSE
>
> 1. Facts
> Despite (at the time, at least) not being the Surveyor, Cuddlebeam
> attempted to
> initiate 5 auctions for Estates. Four of these were of Estates owned by
> Agora, and one was owned by a private party. E then called this CFJ to
> determine whether any auction was indeed ongoing. While an auction is
> currently ongoing, it is an oft-repeated maxim that CFJs shall be judged on
> the facts at the calling of the CFJ. The question in this case is whether a
> player can initiate auctions for any Estate by announcement and if not,
> whether they may initate auctions for only private Estates or only Agoran
> estates.
> 2.The meaning of the word auction
> Without resorting to any dictionaries, an auction means to me a sale in
> which people bid for an item and the person who bid the most wins the item.
> A dictionary definition of auction is similar: an auction is "a public
> sale in which goods or property are sold to the highest bidder." The
> previously run auction for Estates worked in a similar way. There has been
> some controversy about whether or not an auction with no possibility of
> sale is indeed an auction. I ruled that it was not. PSS contended that
> because under the current rules' provision for auctions, the auction itself
> did not transfer Estates, my interpretation would render all auctions
> invalid. However, I here affirm my previous ruling. The player transferring
> the Estate to emself is similar to a person at a car auction grabbing the
> item they bought. Even if transfer is not guarenteed, it is likely. I hold
> that under the common sense, dictionary and game practise meaning of the
> word "auction", a purported auction that is unlikely or impossible to
> result in a transfer of the auctioned Estate
> is no auction at all.
> 3.Josh's Estate
> I hold that the Estate Josh T holds cannot be transferred and thus no
> auction is taking place for the Estate of Antegria (under the facts at the
> time of the calling). The Rules state that "A player who owns an Estate
> can and may transfer it to any player, to any Organization, or to Agora,
> by announcement.". This clearly regulates the transferring of Estates and
> places two conditions on it ("a player who owns an Estate" and "by
> announcement". It is clear neither CB nor anyone else may transfer Josh's
> estate to anyone else because they do not meet the restrictions. Fun fact:
> when an organization is transferred an Estate, it can never leave. rito plz.
> 4. Agoran Estates
> Agora is not a sentient being (yet) and cannot act on its own behalf to
> transfer Estates it owns. Therefore the rules create another way for
> Estates to be transferred. By an auction initiated by the Surveyor. However
> it also makes the judgement that this should only be done by the Surveyor,
> once a month. CB is not the Surveyor, and he is attempting to initiate four
> auctions at once. It is clear that the rules "limit" the action of
> initiating an auction to the Surveyor. Previous judgements and messages
> have invoked Generalia Specialibus Non Derogant, but that statutory cannon
> applies to two conflicting statutes. I would instead invoke the principle
> of both Agora and common law systems that a Rule or legislative decision
> overrides any murky general ability to do something. CB's attempted actions
> are outside the regulatory framework and therefore not effective. It was
> clearly the intent of the writers of the rule for one Auction to happen at
> once, and CB's action would disrupt the intent.
>
> FALSE
>