On 07/26/2013 12:39 AM, Omer Gilad wrote:
.I am wondering how developers here are dealing with the fact that there
are 1000's of devices out there, some of them running your applications
in very broken ways
.I keep running into these kind of issues again and again for the past 3
years, and to be
Either you intentionally ignored the message of his post or you're playing
dumb.
No one is complaining about fragmentation (which sucks, but that's besides
the point).
We're talking about APIs not performing as they should.If you claim that
this never happened to you, you're either lying,
No problem - you want practical examples, I have literally an endless
amount...
I will try not to collapse Google servers or something, so I'll post just a
few.
By the way - read the original post - I am NOT talking about official
fragmentation.
Not screen sizes, API levels features and so
The Galaxy S (especially the i9000) is one of the shittiest devices i've
worked on, without a doubt.
On Wednesday, July 31, 2013 2:47:38 PM UTC+3, Omer Gilad wrote:
No problem - you want practical examples, I have literally an endless
amount...
I will try not to collapse Google servers or
On 07/31/2013 01:47 PM, Omer Gilad wrote:
No problem - you want practical examples, I have literally an endless
amount...
I will try not to collapse Google servers or something, so I'll post
just a few.
Thanks for that.
By the way - read the original post - I am NOT talking about official
The i9000 - oh yeah!
The file system freezes alone were a killer, and then when they implemented
a fix, it was preventing apps from saving their own shared preferences.
Today's top of the line Samsung devices seem to be much better (haven't run
into anything on my Galaxy Note 2, myself, but
You're wrong about calling it fragmentation: fragmentation means there
are n versions of Android, and you have to consider that.
What Omer is saying is that there are actually x n versions of
Android, when you take into account all of the vendor ROMs, with their
long list of bugs.
So it's not
On 07/31/2013 02:40 PM, Kristopher Micinski wrote:
You're wrong about calling it fragmentation: fragmentation means there
are n versions of Android, and you have to consider that.
What Omer is saying is that there are actually x n versions of
Android, when you take into account all of the
Daniele, I think Omer has been constructive. He asked clearly: how do you
deal with this situation? It's obvious there's no bullet proof solution to
this problem, he has told us what he did until now and asked the community
what are they doing to deal with it.
El miércoles, 31 de julio de 2013
Flaming is not the purpose of this discussion - the purpose is to:
1. Share and find some practical solutions, if there are any.
2. Bring the seriousness and span of this issue to Google's attention - as
there seems to be complete ignorance and self-delusion regarding it.
So far I haven't seen
I think various people outlined possible solutions if you'd read the
previous messages. One possible solution is stricter certification
requirements.
Kris
On Jul 31, 2013 8:49 AM, Daniele Segato daniele.seg...@gmail.com wrote:
On 07/31/2013 02:40 PM, Kristopher Micinski wrote:
You're wrong
On 07/31/2013 03:10 PM, Kristopher Micinski wrote:
I think various people outlined possible solutions if you'd read the
previous messages. One possible solution is stricter certification
requirements.
That's something Google can do, and is probably doing.
I asked what WE can do. If we don't
On 07/31/2013 03:05 PM, Omer Gilad wrote:
Flaming is not the purpose of this discussion - the purpose is to:
1. Share and find some practical solutions, if there are any.
That's the primary reason I bothered to reply in the first place.
I saw you wasn't try to flame. But, since you were pissed
I really dont get any of your points Daniele! Every developer that till now
sent an email in this discussion has already stated his/her opinion in
order to answer at Omer's first question...
We can bring Google's attetntion at this problem but we should be focused
on it! If you don't create any
On 07/31/2013 03:36 PM, Παύλος-Πέτρος Τουρνάρης wrote:
I really dont get any of your points Daniele!
I can see that ;)
Every developer that till
now sent an email in this discussion has already stated his/her opinion
in order to answer at Omer's first question...
I'm asking you all to
1. Share and find some practical solutions, if there are any.
There isn't any, for some specific use cases (games) best solution is to
use higher level API (game engine).
2. Bring the seriousness and span of this issue to Google's attention - as
there seems to be complete ignorance and
I am missing the point of this post.
Are you saying that there is no solution?
If so, what do you suggest? Just stop developing for Android?
When I say not aware of that, I mean that it doesn't show up as a
practical solution from the eyes of developers.
Maybe they're aware of that and do
I would certainly support by adding known issues if there was such a system.
I'm not familiar with any free website that can easily create such a
database - anyone?
On Wednesday, July 31, 2013 4:59:19 PM UTC+3, Daniele Segato wrote:
On 07/31/2013 03:36 PM, οΏ½οΏ½οΏ½οΏ½οΏ½οΏ½-οΏ½οΏ½οΏ½οΏ½οΏ½οΏ½
I think a central website for collecting known issues and workarounds would
be a great idea. There are free wiki hosting services that could be used
for that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_wiki_hosting_services
On Wednesday, July 31, 2013 10:14:40 AM UTC-5, Omer Gilad wrote:
I
On 07/31/2013 05:58 PM, Nobu Games wrote:
I think a central website for collecting known issues and workarounds
would be a great idea. There are free wiki hosting services that could
be used for that:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_wiki_hosting_services
I think a wiki is not a
Oops, I sent my reply just to you, so here again for all to see:
on the one hand that's a good idea. On the other hand we would need someone
who is willing to host and maintain that bug tracker. Setting up products,
versions etc. is a lot of work in a bug tracking system. That's why I think
Hi Thomas,
The bug trackers I proposed are all free to use and cloud bug trackers
(meaning no one has to maintain a server or something).
What's needed are admins for that bug tracker.
Categories can be created when needed.
If there are enough maintainers I think it can be done, the
I guess I'm trying to ascertain: is there a concrete question you
have, or just a bunch of bad points about how the Android ecosystem
sucks right now?
If it's the second, everyone agrees it sucks, there's not a good solution.
I suppose one thing that Android could have done better from the start
The point of the original post (the concrete question) was beyond just rant
and rave - the question asked is How to deal with it.
To put in other words - What do you suggest as a practical solution to the
problem, beyond just dumping Android and developing for iOS.
To filter out some possible
The conversation so far, and app testing services, assume that there are
certain broken device models / firmwares and they are broken in a
deterministic way.
This implies that those bad devices can be discovered and excluded or
workarounds implemented, again, in a deterministic way.
From my
Can't agree more with everything that has already been said here, but let
me remind you something guys: WE chose the Android way, they didn't force
us! Android is an Open Source Project and therefore it was more than 100%
sure that problems like the ones mentioned above, would appear by the time.
I had no idea it was this broken when I started developing for Android
in early 2010.
The only technology I can recall that was comparably broken was the
early releases of Direct 3D, back in 96-98 or so... MS moved very
quickly to improve it, though, and got hardware vendors to fix their
drivers
That doesn't justify.
An open source project can be maintained with strict regulations and
high-quality standards.
Google can allow anyone to create his own Android device and sell however
they want - but don't allow it to run Google Play and rate apps!
I don't recall problems in this massive
I feel like what's been said here is more directed toward Google
management than Android AOSP, per se: not that that's not also an
issue.
I understand and agree with what Kostya is saying, and wasn't trying
to imply that there are a fixed number of builds with deterministic
issues.
Even for a
.I am wondering how developers here are dealing with the fact that there
are 1000's of devices out there, some of them running your applications in
very broken ways
.I keep running into these kind of issues again and again for the past 3
years, and to be honest, I'm fed up with it
.I've decided
My solution: banging my head against the wall really hard.
Fed up with it too. Maybe I picked the wrong line of work, and should
become a garbage truck driver instead.
It's not just crashes, it's things that some devices do, which break
the UI in significant (to the users) ways.
Nothing like
This is basically what the CTS enforcement is attempting to rectify:
but it's obviously not a perfect solution.
Many small developers just accept this as fact, and handle only the
API. Bigger developers are forced to deal with the real problems, and
then it's a matter of extensive knowledge,
I've found that even the biggest app developers like Skype, Gameloft, etc.
have device issues, and they don't look in such a good shape.
Just scan the reviews of any super-popular Android app, and you can see the
same disease... This app doesn't even work, it sucks, and I PAID FOR IT!
(from
There are potential solutions, but in practice it's a constant battle.
Certainly there are people that provide internet based test services
that test your app on huge numbers of devices for a subscription based
fee.
Kris
On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 8:12 PM, Omer Gilad omer.gi...@gmail.com wrote:
Yes, I've encountered those services.
This is still not a solution.
It requires substantial money investment, and in a lot of cases it doesn't
give you the ability to debug on those devices.
Personal example - I'm developing a game, and we've found (after a friend
checked it) that it has major
Your last paragraph is *exactly* what the CTS is all about, but
obviously if you don't work for google you can't mandate what goes in
and what does not :-).
I'm not recommending that these services are the solution to
everyone's problems: but I do contend they get you farther than you
would be
I agree that it's better than nothing. But, since it's a paid service that
has nothing to do with the official SDK, it doesn't come in the SDK's favor
at all.
The problem appears in much more obvious parts of the SDK than the one I
presented. I can give countless examples on demand and I'm
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