Oracle seems to be doing more than just suing Google. It appears to
me that Oracle has postured itself to call any *user* of Android to be
an infringer of patent and copyright:
http://avaj-mavaj.blogspot.com/2010/09/accused.html
Richard
On Aug 13, 1:38 pm, François Masurel fm2...@mably.com
Have a look at this analysis:
http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20100813112425821
On Aug 21, 4:01 am, gosh steve...@unimelb.edu.au wrote:
Its true that if you look at the topics of the 7 patent Oracle cites:
1. Protection Domains to Provide Security in A Computer System
2. Controlling
they have little to do with Java the 'language
True. MS tripped over one of my Java-related patents when they were
building .NET. Generally these patents will relate to implementation
details, and will not effectively prevent the use of Java as a
language.
On Aug 20, 10:01 pm, gosh
Just a minor detail: IMO, while Android is good, the design
undershoots rather than challenges the technology -- it's a bit too
primitive/limiting for the hardware of 2 years from now.
And I don't think that Oracle is trying to claim that bytecode/JVM is
their invention. Rather, they probably
Its true that if you look at the topics of the 7 patent Oracle cites:
1. Protection Domains to Provide Security in A Computer System
2. Controlling Access to a Resource
3. Method and Apparatus for Preprocessing and Packaging Class Files
4. System and Method for Dynamic Preloading of Classes
One viewpoint:
http://patentology.blogspot.com/2010/08/why-has-oracle-sued-google.html
There are some relevant points of law there, in addition to the
opinions.
On Aug 12, 7:52 pm, Frank Weiss fewe...@gmail.com wrote:
It hit the press today. Rumored that Google refused to settle. I have
no
The Irony of Java's success on the device UI via Android
There's lots of irony in the successful use of the Java 'language'
within the phenomena that the Android OS has become. E.g.
Java began life at Sun as Oak which was meant to be a language for
small devices up to set-top boxes. It went on at
Face it,
This is just a ploy by msft and apl to distract android devs from
writing code And make them spend all the time speculating and starting
flame wars.
On Aug 16, 1:30 pm, Frank Weiss fewe...@gmail.com wrote:
Fabrizio, thanks for sharing that Forbes article
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On 8/17/10 08:20 , nexbug wrote:
Face it, This is just a ploy by msft and apl to distract android
devs from writing code And make them spend all the time speculating
and starting flame wars.
So, as I said, we'd just keep on writing code and
Developers
Subject: [android-developers] Re: Chilling news: Oracle sues Google over
Android
Face it,
This is just a ploy by msft and apl to distract android devs from writing
code
And make them spend all the time speculating and starting flame wars.
On Aug 16, 1:30 pm, Frank Weiss fewe
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On 8/16/10 05:07 , DanH wrote:
Having written 13 software patents, I'm well aware that many are
very weak, or, if not weak, very narrow. But proving all that in a
court of law is the trick -- the presumption is that the patent,
having been
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Suggested read:
http://blogs.forbes.com/taylorbuley/2010/08/13/android-lawsuit-is-really-just-oracle-flirting-with-google/
- --
Fabrizio Giudici - Java Architect, Project Manager
Tidalwave s.a.s. - We make Java work. Everywhere.
Fabrizio, thanks for sharing that Forbes article
(http://blogs.forbes.com/taylorbuley/2010/08/13/android-lawsuit-is-really-just-oracle-flirting-with-google/).
It confirmed some of my thinking, but added the interesting bear hug
angle. I wonder if that is really the case.
--
You received this
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On 8/14/10 23:04 , Sebastián Treu wrote:
The problem it's not if Oracle wants to shutdown Android. The
problem is how this will *affect* the android platform both
acceptance and distribution. Android is new and it's making his way
in the market.
/roller/jag/entry/the_shit_finally_hits_the
Llies
+44(0)7766541551
- Reply message -
From: Fabrizio Giudici fabrizio.giud...@tidalwave.it
Date: Sat, Aug 14, 2010 15:34
Subject: [android-developers] Re: Chilling news: Oracle sues Google over Android
To: android-developers@googlegroups.com
Cc
In my opinion the worst outcome would be one where Oracle could
extract royalties from Android sales **and** Oracle felt free to do
Microsoft-like licensing, where they gave different partners
different terms, tied licensing to use of Oracle software, etc. A
simple $5-$10 a pop phone license, on
But that is exactly why it is so much in Google's interest to attack
those weak patents in Court -- and overturn them.
Make no mistake about it: most software patents are weak. As Knuth has
pointed out at http://eupat.ffii.org/gasnu/knuth/index.en.html and
elsewhere, most of them fail to meet the
Having written 13 software patents, I'm well aware that many are very
weak, or, if not weak, very narrow. But proving all that in a court
of law is the trick -- the presumption is that the patent, having
been cleared by the patent office, is valid. (I'd have several more
patents if it weren't
I think Java has really become 'the new Cobol' this side of 2020 -
helped along significantly by both Oracle's purchase of Sun, and by
Google making it a mainstream/relevant UI language (at last!) via
Android - i.e. its now past its innovation stage, and has become
heavily mainstream and stable
There's far too much written on Java vs whatever other language people
think is better. The bottom line is java has hit the right balance
between performance/ease of coding/maintenance/scalability and what
not, and that's why there's overwhelming adoption for it out there.
This also allowed for a
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On 8/14/10 12:27 , netlander wrote:
Now! can anyone (Google guys?) enlighten us on what's the lawsuit
about?
You can bet that none of Google will talk about this in the mailing
lists :-) I suppose only lawyers, spokesmen and some executives will
Its not slow. My loop sequencer app does such and can mix 10 tracks of
44khz stereo data no problem. The only problem on android is the
buffer sizes are never small enuogh for real time play. That's the
only real issue, which I doubt will be solved by simply allowing g
native access. Something g
I started this thread with some trepidation, especially the chilling
part. But it looks like we got to share our thoughts, if maybe a
little OT at times.
Fabrizio Giudici wote:
My point is that we developers should not be much worried about that.
I don't think that Oracle has any real intention
I seem to remember a similar thing with Microsoft being sued for using
Java over 10 years ago at which point Microsoft removed Java from
Windows and Java got forgotten largely on the PC until recently, I
hope the same won't happen here Android will just move to another
language and the only looser
On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 12:34 PM, Fabrizio Giudici
My point is that we developers should not be much worried about that.
I don't think that Oracle has any real intention to shut down Android,
since it's a pot of money. You usually want to have a part of it, or
be part of the game, not to
This is why, once it (the Oracle acquisition of Sun) was publicly
announced, all of the cognoscenti were worried about what Oracle was
going to do to the Java language and platform. But the government
regulators were too easily appeased and convinced that it would not be
a problem. Now that Larry
On Aug 12, 8:07 pm, Shane Isbell shane.isb...@gmail.com wrote:
If there were no lawsuits, then I would worry. This is an encouraging sign
that Android is starting to rattle more cages due to its expected
profitability and competitiveness.
Nah, just a move to see if they can find some cheap
What about the Google App Engine for Java platform ?
It's powered by Jetty though, not Tomcat.
François
On 13 août, 11:28, Miguel Morales therevolti...@gmail.com wrote:
Do you know that most of the web sites, services and whatever on the
internet are powered by Java and by a good percentage
I'm sure not all of us have the cash to pay for the amount of servers
the app engine requires.
Also, they pretty much use jetty for the frontend, they use an rpc
system to communicate with whatever their backend is coded in.
(at least from briefly scanning the the gae docs)
2010/8/13 François
Acually, SUN has one of the worst JVMs available, and that's probably
a big part of what's got Oracle upset about Android. (That and the
money, of course.)
I would assume that Google got one of the standard development
licenses from Sun, where they could do pretty much whatever they
wanted -- it
User side Java has been limited mostly by the lack of a decent UI.
On Aug 13, 4:55 am, Fabrizio Giudici fabrizio.giud...@tidalwave.it
wrote:
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On 8/13/10 11:39 , Miguel Morales wrote: I don't know of any popular fast
java applications, despite all
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On 8/13/10 14:05 , DanH wrote:
Acually, SUN has one of the worst JVMs available, and that's probably
a big part of what's got Oracle upset about Android. (That and the
money, of course.)
I would assume that Google got one of the standard
On Aug 13, 5:05 am, DanH danhi...@ieee.org wrote:
Oracle upset about Android.
Take it from me, the people who drive these lawsuits are the types who
give a ratsass about anything that we think matters. Plenty of those
hired at other firms up and down the 101 as well, of course.
--
You
Yeah, I saw the list of patents, and commented above that from the
titles they likely were pretty narrow. This is going to be an angels-
on-the-head-of a-pin battle.
On Aug 13, 7:32 am, Fabrizio Giudici fabrizio.giud...@tidalwave.it
wrote:
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On
My point was that Sun's JVM is losing market share to several others,
and they want/need, from a business standpoint, to staunch the
bleeding.
But, as I observed originally, lawsuits are a part of Oracle's
business model.
On Aug 13, 8:13 am, JP joachim.pfeif...@gmail.com wrote:
On Aug 13, 5:05
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On 8/13/10 19:08 , DanH wrote:
Yeah, I saw the list of patents, and commented above that from the
titles they likely were pretty narrow. This is going to be an
angels- on-the-head-of a-pin battle.
To complete the scenario, I've been pointed to
Hard to say. I don't know if the tendency in lawsuits is to list the
most significant first, or the least significant.
Can't speak to the possibility of copyright infringement. If the
developers of the Android environment have good documentation for
using cleanroom procedures that's a big help,
Sun would never have freely licensed their mobile JVM/KVM, they made way too
much money for that. The problem for Oracle now is the emergence of iPhone
and Android is seriously chipping away at Java ME distribution on handsets.
Now you have countries intending to ban blackberry service (which uses
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On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 11:46 AM, DanH danhi...@ieee.org
mailto:danhi...@ieee.org wrote:
I do wish that Sun had fully opensourced and open licensed Java
like they were planning to several years back. I'm guessing the
plan was killed when
That's what I was asking to myself : what if Google simply infringed
Oracle copyrights by using Java specifications and namespaces ? Can
APIs be copyrighted ?
If it's the case, what are the possible solutions beside paying
royalties to Oracle ?
And then, why is the Wine project allowed to
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On 8/13/10 22:38 , François Masurel wrote:
That's what I was asking to myself : what if Google simply
infringed Oracle copyrights by using Java specifications and
namespaces ? Can APIs be copyrighted ?
Of course they can and specs can be
In theory an API can't be copyrighted because it's information, and
you can't copyright information, only its presentation. But of course
copyright law is pretty arcane.
On Aug 13, 3:38 pm, François Masurel fm2...@mably.com wrote:
That's what I was asking to myself : what if Google simply
I don't think it's unexpected. Oracle has a bit of a rep for filing
infringement suits, and when they bought Sun it was expected to happen
with respect to Java.
On Aug 12, 7:52 pm, Frank Weiss fewe...@gmail.com wrote:
It hit the press today. Rumored that Google refused to settle. I have
no
The complaint document is an interesting read:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/35810897/Oracle-Google-Complaint
As a direct and proximate result of Google’s direct and indirect
willful copyright
infringement, Oracle America has suffered, and will continue to
suffer, monetary loss to its
business,
One thing Google has, plenty of lawyers. I would think they have
either a good case or can keep this one bottled up until Android has
passed into the great beyond.
-John Coryat
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To post to this
One can't tell a whole lot from the patent titles, but I authored (on
behalf of IBM) several patents covering similar subjects. Generally
to get a patent in such areas the scope of the invention needs to be
fairly narrow, since there's such a large amount of prior art.
It'll keep the lawyers
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