[android-developers] Re: left scrollbar

2010-03-29 Thread ABhi
Hi

Why don't we have any view that supports both horizontal and vertical
scrollbar?

What am i supposed to do to show an auditorium layout on Android
(which enables user to select particular seat on that auditorium?

Regards,
Abhishek


On Mar 29, 4:36 am, Romain Guy romain...@android.com wrote:
 Yes.

 On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 2:21 PM, Streets Of Boston





 flyingdutc...@gmail.com wrote:
  Dianne,

  In the future, is there support planned for right-to-left locales on
  Android?

  On Mar 28, 12:37 am, Dianne Hackborn hack...@android.com wrote:
  But why do you want to put a scroll bar on the left?  Scroll bars on 
  Android
  are on the right.  Making that different just makes things gratuitously
  different for the user, for no reason I can see.

  On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 9:09 AM, skink psk...@gmail.com wrote:

   On Mar 27, 3:03 pm, Mark Murphy mmur...@commonsware.com wrote:
emna zeddini wrote:
 hello, I didn't understand what you meant.Is it impossible?

I mean that none of the built-in classes (e.g., ScrollView) offer
scrollbars on the left side.

You are welcome to examine the 2,400 lines of code that make up
ScrollView.java and HorizontalScrollView.java to see if you can figure
out how to make a ScrollViewWithScrollBarOnTheLeft.java to meet your
   needs.

   i believe it is android.view.View that draws scrollbars

   pskink

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Re: [android-developers] Re: left scrollbar

2010-03-29 Thread emna zeddini
Hi everybody,
First of all, I want to thank you so much for the help and support you gave
me.
Then , I want to inform you that finally I have a scrollbar on the left
side.
Thank you so much.

2010/3/29 ABhi abhishek.gonda...@gmail.com

 Hi

 Why don't we have any view that supports both horizontal and vertical
 scrollbar?

 What am i supposed to do to show an auditorium layout on Android
 (which enables user to select particular seat on that auditorium?

 Regards,
 Abhishek


 On Mar 29, 4:36 am, Romain Guy romain...@android.com wrote:
  Yes.
 
  On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 2:21 PM, Streets Of Boston
 
 
 
 
 
  flyingdutc...@gmail.com wrote:
   Dianne,
 
   In the future, is there support planned for right-to-left locales on
   Android?
 
   On Mar 28, 12:37 am, Dianne Hackborn hack...@android.com wrote:
   But why do you want to put a scroll bar on the left?  Scroll bars on
 Android
   are on the right.  Making that different just makes things
 gratuitously
   different for the user, for no reason I can see.
 
   On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 9:09 AM, skink psk...@gmail.com wrote:
 
On Mar 27, 3:03 pm, Mark Murphy mmur...@commonsware.com wrote:
 emna zeddini wrote:
  hello, I didn't understand what you meant.Is it impossible?
 
 I mean that none of the built-in classes (e.g., ScrollView) offer
 scrollbars on the left side.
 
 You are welcome to examine the 2,400 lines of code that make up
 ScrollView.java and HorizontalScrollView.java to see if you can
 figure
 out how to make a ScrollViewWithScrollBarOnTheLeft.java to meet
 your
needs.
 
i believe it is android.view.View that draws scrollbars
 
pskink
 
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 to
   provide private support, and so won't reply to such e-mails.  All such
   questions should be posted on public forums, where I and others can
 see and
   answer them.- Hide quoted text -
 
   - Show quoted text -
 
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[android-developers] Re: left scrollbar

2010-03-29 Thread emna zeddini
Hello,
Just I have a l suggestion, why don't you in the futur add a field in which
android users can
choose between left side or right side scrollbars so that you satisfy the
needs of both RTL and LTR
languages.
Best regards.

2010/3/27 emna zeddini zeddini.e...@gmail.com

 Hello,.
 Is there a way to have a scrollbar on the left side?
 Thanks in advance


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[android-developers] Re: left scrollbar

2010-03-29 Thread Bob Kerns
It's really a bit more complicated than that, to do it right.

People don't just use LTR or RTL. There's a lot of mixed text, and
people use a mix of applications which are and aren't localized to RTL
languages.

When the languages are intermixed, there's two different ways for
things to behave -- it boils down to which direction is primary, and
which one is the one that's considered embedded. This affects a whole
lot of things, like selection behavior.

To do it right, these should all be coordinated, rather than a bunch
of individual settings. So if you are using English, but an occasional
bit of Arabic, the scroll bars should remain on the right. But if
you're reading Arabic text, with an occasional American name or an
English Technical term, then they should be on the left.

This is why it's not really right to be doing this yourself. (I
realize you don't have a choice at the moment, I'm talking about how
things should be in theory). So I hope they can get their RTL stuff
working well and to users before too many people have to do it the
hard way like you have.

There's a third orientation of text as well! The CJK scripts --
Chinese, Japanese, Korean -- are traditionally written top-to-bottom,
right-to-left. But everyone is accustomed to working with these
languages LTR as well, so support for this is generally considered
less important. Arabic, because of the way the letters connect (and
change depending on what they're connected to), just won't work LTR!

Still, the top-down format remains in widespread use. LTR was first
used in 1915, according to Wikipedia., but there are still many
contexts and purposes people would find LTR surprising. Japanese manga
(comic books) are nearly always written top-to bottom, as are most
advertisements, etc.

Handling the world's writing systems is a complex task!

With English, we have it easy -- the worst we have to deal with are
variable-width fonts and capital/lower-case distinctions, and a tiny
alphabet.

On Mar 29, 3:53 am, emna zeddini zeddini.e...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hello,
 Just I have a l suggestion, why don't you in the futur add a field in which
 android users can
 choose between left side or right side scrollbars so that you satisfy the
 needs of both RTL and LTR
 languages.
 Best regards.

 2010/3/27 emna zeddini zeddini.e...@gmail.com



  Hello,.
  Is there a way to have a scrollbar on the left side?
  Thanks in advance

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Re: [android-developers] Re: left scrollbar

2010-03-29 Thread emna zeddini
Thank you for the detailed explanation.

2010/3/29 Bob Kerns r...@acm.org

 It's really a bit more complicated than that, to do it right.

 People don't just use LTR or RTL. There's a lot of mixed text, and
 people use a mix of applications which are and aren't localized to RTL
 languages.

 When the languages are intermixed, there's two different ways for
 things to behave -- it boils down to which direction is primary, and
 which one is the one that's considered embedded. This affects a whole
 lot of things, like selection behavior.

 To do it right, these should all be coordinated, rather than a bunch
 of individual settings. So if you are using English, but an occasional
 bit of Arabic, the scroll bars should remain on the right. But if
 you're reading Arabic text, with an occasional American name or an
 English Technical term, then they should be on the left.

 This is why it's not really right to be doing this yourself. (I
 realize you don't have a choice at the moment, I'm talking about how
 things should be in theory). So I hope they can get their RTL stuff
 working well and to users before too many people have to do it the
 hard way like you have.

 There's a third orientation of text as well! The CJK scripts --
 Chinese, Japanese, Korean -- are traditionally written top-to-bottom,
 right-to-left. But everyone is accustomed to working with these
 languages LTR as well, so support for this is generally considered
 less important. Arabic, because of the way the letters connect (and
 change depending on what they're connected to), just won't work LTR!

 Still, the top-down format remains in widespread use. LTR was first
 used in 1915, according to Wikipedia., but there are still many
 contexts and purposes people would find LTR surprising. Japanese manga
 (comic books) are nearly always written top-to bottom, as are most
 advertisements, etc.

 Handling the world's writing systems is a complex task!

 With English, we have it easy -- the worst we have to deal with are
 variable-width fonts and capital/lower-case distinctions, and a tiny
 alphabet.

 On Mar 29, 3:53 am, emna zeddini zeddini.e...@gmail.com wrote:
  Hello,
  Just I have a l suggestion, why don't you in the futur add a field in
 which
  android users can
  choose between left side or right side scrollbars so that you satisfy the
  needs of both RTL and LTR
  languages.
  Best regards.
 
  2010/3/27 emna zeddini zeddini.e...@gmail.com
 
 
 
   Hello,.
   Is there a way to have a scrollbar on the left side?
   Thanks in advance

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[android-developers] Re: left scrollbar

2010-03-28 Thread skink
On Mar 28, 3:37 am, Dianne Hackborn hack...@android.com wrote:
 But why do you want to put a scroll bar on the left?  Scroll bars on Android
 are on the right.  Making that different just makes things gratuitously
 different for the user, for no reason I can see.


Dianne ,

i don't, OP wants them, from some reason, on the left

btw, since 2.1 there are View.onDraw[Vertical|Horizontal]Scrollbar
methods

were they introduced for such purposes? or still, even when overriden,
vertical scrollbar will be drawn on the right side?

pskink

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Re: [android-developers] Re: left scrollbar

2010-03-28 Thread Romain Guy
You can override these methods to draw the scrollbar on the left if you want.

On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 12:12 AM, skink psk...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Mar 28, 3:37 am, Dianne Hackborn hack...@android.com wrote:
 But why do you want to put a scroll bar on the left?  Scroll bars on Android
 are on the right.  Making that different just makes things gratuitously
 different for the user, for no reason I can see.


 Dianne ,

 i don't, OP wants them, from some reason, on the left

 btw, since 2.1 there are View.onDraw[Vertical|Horizontal]Scrollbar
 methods

 were they introduced for such purposes? or still, even when overriden,
 vertical scrollbar will be drawn on the right side?

 pskink

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-- 
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Android framework engineer
romain...@android.com

Note: please don't send private questions to me, as I don't have time
to provide private support.  All such questions should be posted on
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[android-developers] Re: left scrollbar

2010-03-28 Thread skink


On Mar 28, 6:14 am, Romain Guy romain...@android.com wrote:
 You can override these methods to draw the scrollbar on the left if you want.


thanks Romain a lot!

speaking of scrollbars, i cannot make android:scrollbarSize to work.
whatever i set  it seems that size is always 6.

also if i'm writing custom View and create it at the runtime (not from
xml), i read i need to call initializeScrollbars but how for example
specify custom horiz/vert thumb drawables?

pskink

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[android-developers] Re: left scrollbar

2010-03-28 Thread Bob Kerns
Dianne, the OP wants scrollbars on the left because Arabic is written
right-to-left. So the reasons for having scrollbars on the right are
reversed.

I'm not sure that's a good idea, however. I think Arabic users will be
encountering scrollbars on the right very often, either because
they're forced to use non-localized applications, or because localized
applications don't implement scrollbars on the left.

The result will be that scrollbars are sometimes on one side,
sometimes on the other. I expect the confusion that will result will
be worse than having the scrollbars always on the wrong side.

The only satisfactory solution I see is if the system always picks the
side based on locale and/or user preference. and people do NOT write
their own code to do it.

And even then -- if other systems and platforms don't offer this, it
might still be confusing to users. I suspect it would be OK, but I'd
want to see some usability testing before I committed the platform to
doing that.

On Mar 27, 9:37 pm, Dianne Hackborn hack...@android.com wrote:
 But why do you want to put a scroll bar on the left?  Scroll bars on Android
 are on the right.  Making that different just makes things gratuitously
 different for the user, for no reason I can see.





 On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 9:09 AM, skink psk...@gmail.com wrote:

  On Mar 27, 3:03 pm, Mark Murphy mmur...@commonsware.com wrote:
   emna zeddini wrote:
hello, I didn't understand what you meant.Is it impossible?

   I mean that none of the built-in classes (e.g., ScrollView) offer
   scrollbars on the left side.

   You are welcome to examine the 2,400 lines of code that make up
   ScrollView.java and HorizontalScrollView.java to see if you can figure
   out how to make a ScrollViewWithScrollBarOnTheLeft.java to meet your
  needs.

  i believe it is android.view.View that draws scrollbars

  pskink

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 Note: please don't send private questions to me, as I don't have time to
 provide private support, and so won't reply to such e-mails.  All such
 questions should be posted on public forums, where I and others can see and
 answer them.

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Re: [android-developers] Re: left scrollbar

2010-03-28 Thread Dianne Hackborn
On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 1:21 PM, Bob Kerns r...@acm.org wrote:

 Dianne, the OP wants scrollbars on the left because Arabic is written
 right-to-left. So the reasons for having scrollbars on the right are
 reversed.


Ah...  well, right to left text is not supported by Android, at all, so I
think scroll bars are the least of the concerns.  And to support Arabic, I
think the right thing would be to have the platform move the scroll bar
(along with lots of other stuff) if appropriate for the language.

-- 
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Android framework engineer
hack...@android.com

Note: please don't send private questions to me, as I don't have time to
provide private support, and so won't reply to such e-mails.  All such
questions should be posted on public forums, where I and others can see and
answer them.

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[android-developers] Re: left scrollbar

2010-03-28 Thread Streets Of Boston
Dianne,

In the future, is there support planned for right-to-left locales on
Android?

On Mar 28, 12:37 am, Dianne Hackborn hack...@android.com wrote:
 But why do you want to put a scroll bar on the left?  Scroll bars on Android
 are on the right.  Making that different just makes things gratuitously
 different for the user, for no reason I can see.





 On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 9:09 AM, skink psk...@gmail.com wrote:

  On Mar 27, 3:03 pm, Mark Murphy mmur...@commonsware.com wrote:
   emna zeddini wrote:
hello, I didn't understand what you meant.Is it impossible?

   I mean that none of the built-in classes (e.g., ScrollView) offer
   scrollbars on the left side.

   You are welcome to examine the 2,400 lines of code that make up
   ScrollView.java and HorizontalScrollView.java to see if you can figure
   out how to make a ScrollViewWithScrollBarOnTheLeft.java to meet your
  needs.

  i believe it is android.view.View that draws scrollbars

  pskink

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 Android framework engineer
 hack...@android.com

 Note: please don't send private questions to me, as I don't have time to
 provide private support, and so won't reply to such e-mails.  All such
 questions should be posted on public forums, where I and others can see and
 answer them.- Hide quoted text -

 - Show quoted text -

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Re: [android-developers] Re: left scrollbar

2010-03-28 Thread Romain Guy
Yes.

On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 2:21 PM, Streets Of Boston
flyingdutc...@gmail.com wrote:
 Dianne,

 In the future, is there support planned for right-to-left locales on
 Android?

 On Mar 28, 12:37 am, Dianne Hackborn hack...@android.com wrote:
 But why do you want to put a scroll bar on the left?  Scroll bars on Android
 are on the right.  Making that different just makes things gratuitously
 different for the user, for no reason I can see.





 On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 9:09 AM, skink psk...@gmail.com wrote:

  On Mar 27, 3:03 pm, Mark Murphy mmur...@commonsware.com wrote:
   emna zeddini wrote:
hello, I didn't understand what you meant.Is it impossible?

   I mean that none of the built-in classes (e.g., ScrollView) offer
   scrollbars on the left side.

   You are welcome to examine the 2,400 lines of code that make up
   ScrollView.java and HorizontalScrollView.java to see if you can figure
   out how to make a ScrollViewWithScrollBarOnTheLeft.java to meet your
  needs.

  i believe it is android.view.View that draws scrollbars

  pskink

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 Note: please don't send private questions to me, as I don't have time to
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 answer them.- Hide quoted text -

 - Show quoted text -

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[android-developers] Re: left scrollbar

2010-03-28 Thread Streets Of Boston
Good answer! :-)

On Mar 28, 7:36 pm, Romain Guy romain...@android.com wrote:
 Yes.

 On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 2:21 PM, Streets Of Boston





 flyingdutc...@gmail.com wrote:
  Dianne,

  In the future, is there support planned for right-to-left locales on
  Android?

  On Mar 28, 12:37 am, Dianne Hackborn hack...@android.com wrote:
  But why do you want to put a scroll bar on the left?  Scroll bars on 
  Android
  are on the right.  Making that different just makes things gratuitously
  different for the user, for no reason I can see.

  On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 9:09 AM, skink psk...@gmail.com wrote:

   On Mar 27, 3:03 pm, Mark Murphy mmur...@commonsware.com wrote:
emna zeddini wrote:
 hello, I didn't understand what you meant.Is it impossible?

I mean that none of the built-in classes (e.g., ScrollView) offer
scrollbars on the left side.

You are welcome to examine the 2,400 lines of code that make up
ScrollView.java and HorizontalScrollView.java to see if you can figure
out how to make a ScrollViewWithScrollBarOnTheLeft.java to meet your
   needs.

   i believe it is android.view.View that draws scrollbars

   pskink

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  Note: please don't send private questions to me, as I don't have time to
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  questions should be posted on public forums, where I and others can see and
  answer them.- Hide quoted text -

  - Show quoted text -

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 - Show quoted text -

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[android-developers] Re: left scrollbar

2010-03-27 Thread skink


On Mar 27, 3:03 pm, Mark Murphy mmur...@commonsware.com wrote:
 emna zeddini wrote:
  hello, I didn't understand what you meant.Is it impossible?

 I mean that none of the built-in classes (e.g., ScrollView) offer
 scrollbars on the left side.

 You are welcome to examine the 2,400 lines of code that make up
 ScrollView.java and HorizontalScrollView.java to see if you can figure
 out how to make a ScrollViewWithScrollBarOnTheLeft.java to meet your needs.


i believe it is android.view.View that draws scrollbars

pskink

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Re: [android-developers] Re: left scrollbar

2010-03-27 Thread Dianne Hackborn
But why do you want to put a scroll bar on the left?  Scroll bars on Android
are on the right.  Making that different just makes things gratuitously
different for the user, for no reason I can see.

On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 9:09 AM, skink psk...@gmail.com wrote:



 On Mar 27, 3:03 pm, Mark Murphy mmur...@commonsware.com wrote:
  emna zeddini wrote:
   hello, I didn't understand what you meant.Is it impossible?
 
  I mean that none of the built-in classes (e.g., ScrollView) offer
  scrollbars on the left side.
 
  You are welcome to examine the 2,400 lines of code that make up
  ScrollView.java and HorizontalScrollView.java to see if you can figure
  out how to make a ScrollViewWithScrollBarOnTheLeft.java to meet your
 needs.
 

 i believe it is android.view.View that draws scrollbars

 pskink

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hack...@android.com

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provide private support, and so won't reply to such e-mails.  All such
questions should be posted on public forums, where I and others can see and
answer them.

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