Re: [android-developers] Re: How to know what internal process runs an application

2011-07-25 Thread Mark Murphy
On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 10:23 PM, elDoudou
the.edouard.merc...@gmail.com wrote:
 I'm sorry, but your answer does not answer my requirements, and as I
 stated, having to insert a line of code referring a static method
 every where I need to make sure my application is initialized is for a
 poor design, because I have something like 100 Activity classes in my
 application (yes, this is a very big application), and I cannot
 prevent from forgetting to insert the piece of code somewhere.

Use lazy initialization, and your problem cannot happen, by definition:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazy_initialization

-- 
Mark Murphy (a Commons Guy)
http://commonsware.com | http://github.com/commonsguy
http://commonsware.com/blog | http://twitter.com/commonsguy

Android Training in NYC: http://marakana.com/training/android/

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[android-developers] Re: How to know what internal process runs an application

2011-07-25 Thread elDoudou
Thank you Mark.

However, you still do not answer my question, and this coding design
pattern does not help in that specific situation. I do not need a work-
around, I'd like to know if what I attempt to achieve is feasible.

Thank you for your understanding.
Édouard

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[android-developers] Re: How to know what internal process runs an application

2011-07-25 Thread Streets Of Boston
The part of your app that uses activities, that needs this initialization 
part, must access the resources/caches/etc that are created during this 
initialization. Why can't you initialize these resource/caches/etc. when 
they are accessed for the first time (the lazy-loading stuff)? If you can't 
do the lazy-loading on first access, why is that? Maybe we can find a 
solution for that issue and you don't need to try to get at the process-id. 

Using some form of lazy loading, the IntentService, which will never access 
these resources/caches/etc, will therefore not cause the initialization of 
these resources/caches. 


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[android-developers] Re: How to know what internal process runs an application

2011-07-25 Thread elDoudou
Thank you Boston.

As I stated, I cannot use lazy instantiation, because this
initialization starts up things which is time-dependent, and hence
that need to be started as soon as the process starts.

Otherwise, yes, I would definitively chose this option.

Regards,
Édouard

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[android-developers] Re: How to know what internal process runs an application

2011-07-25 Thread Streets Of Boston
Ah... it's an issue with timing of the initialization. 
My follow up question is then: Why must the initialization take place asap 
and not just before it's needed?
(i'm just trying to figure out if there is a way around the issue you have, 
because Android doesn't give you the process-id/name :-)).

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[android-developers] Re: How to know what internal process runs an application

2011-07-25 Thread Indicator Veritatis
And you already have the answer to that question, even several times
now: the answer is no, it is not feasible, not under the constraints
you have imposed on yourself. You need to redesign. This time, take
into account that the process is an anonymous container.

BTW: am I really the only one to notice, big though your application
may be, that it has hundreds of Activities sounds like another
symptom of fundamentally flawed design. Have you considered the
Flyweight design pattern? I know that would entail a massive rewrite
at this point, but it sounds to me like you have painted yourself into
a corner as things are, so it may be time for it.

On Jul 25, 8:55 am, elDoudou the.edouard.merc...@gmail.com wrote:
 Thank you Mark.

 However, you still do not answer my question, and this coding design
 pattern does not help in that specific situation. I do not need a work-
 around, I'd like to know if what I attempt to achieve is feasible.

 Thank you for your understanding.
 Édouard

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[android-developers] Re: How to know what internal process runs an application

2011-07-25 Thread elDoudou
Thank you Indicator Veritatis for your clear answer.

For you, what I intend to do is impossible. I cannot figure out why
the Android team declared an android:process attribute, and do not
expose that value at runtime to the application, because this
information is only an instruction on whether a dedicated Linux
process should be allocated for a specific component type (Activity,
Service, BroadcastReceiver, ContentProvider ...): the fact that this
actually names the Linux process this way is an implementation detail
and a coincidence. If the process should be anonymous containers and
that it is not supposed to be available from the API at runtime, why
not having design an android:process value with an ordinal? I now
know that I need to review the Android source code for better
understanding that android:process thing.

BTW: my application has about 100 activities (I did not say
hundreds ;), because this is a very large application, and I already
put into common many activities. For information, I'm not totally a
rookie: I have already been developing about 40 Android applications
(see http://code.google.com/p/droid4me for some of them), and I have
been developing now for 25 years (which, of course, does not involve
that I'm a good developer ;).

Regards,
Édouard

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Re: [android-developers] Re: How to know what internal process runs an application

2011-07-25 Thread Dianne Hackborn
A string is useful to be able to look at the process information in the
debugger, and the most common use for this is to have multiple .apks share a
process to run in (not run parts of a single .apk in multiple processes), so
a string provides the ability to do scoping and generally not go insane.

On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 8:05 PM, elDoudou the.edouard.merc...@gmail.comwrote:

 Thank you Indicator Veritatis for your clear answer.

 For you, what I intend to do is impossible. I cannot figure out why
 the Android team declared an android:process attribute, and do not
 expose that value at runtime to the application, because this
 information is only an instruction on whether a dedicated Linux
 process should be allocated for a specific component type (Activity,
 Service, BroadcastReceiver, ContentProvider ...): the fact that this
 actually names the Linux process this way is an implementation detail
 and a coincidence. If the process should be anonymous containers and
 that it is not supposed to be available from the API at runtime, why
 not having design an android:process value with an ordinal? I now
 know that I need to review the Android source code for better
 understanding that android:process thing.

 BTW: my application has about 100 activities (I did not say
 hundreds ;), because this is a very large application, and I already
 put into common many activities. For information, I'm not totally a
 rookie: I have already been developing about 40 Android applications
 (see http://code.google.com/p/droid4me for some of them), and I have
 been developing now for 25 years (which, of course, does not involve
 that I'm a good developer ;).

 Regards,
 Édouard

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Dianne Hackborn
Android framework engineer
hack...@android.com

Note: please don't send private questions to me, as I don't have time to
provide private support, and so won't reply to such e-mails.  All such
questions should be posted on public forums, where I and others can see and
answer them.

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[android-developers] Re: How to know what internal process runs an application

2011-07-24 Thread elDoudou
Thank you a lot Dianne and Rich for helping: I think that this
discussion will be helpful to many other Android developers ;)

I understand that I was not successful in explaining the core issue.
Let me attempt to rephrase it in a more appropriate way.

As far as I understand, when an application process starts, its
Application.onCreate() method is invoked, right? Since I do not want
to check that my application process is properly initialized in all my
Activities, BroadcastReceivers, IntentServices, Services,
ContentProviders..., I decided to initialize some variables during
that Application.onCreate() method. Since the application process
can be killed any time by the OS while it was running an Android Task,
it may happen that when the end-user presses its launch icon, or
access to it via the latest task feature (long-pressing the home
button), the lastly stacked Activity on the Task stack may be the
first application Activity to be recreated, and I would like to
prevent from having to check the initialization in all
Activity.onCreate() methods, for instance (even if it is just one
line of code to invoke a static method, because, for me it's a bad
design, since I may forget to insert that line of code in all
Activities). You may say that I should derive from a common Activity
which would check for the initialization: once again, I do not like
this solution, because I have various natures of Activities, like a
MapActivity, a ListActivity, a GroupActivity, a PreferenceActivity,
and I'd prefer not introduce a basis class for each Activity nature.

This discussion also applies to the BroadcastReceivers,
IntentServices, Services, and ContentProviders: I do not want to check
for the initialization nor derive from abstract class which would do
the work.

I prefer the concept of interception, and I prefer to have a
centralized place where I know that all my applications components
will go through, in order to check for the initialization. That is why
I overload the Application.onCreate() method, because it meets all
my requirements (except for the ContentProvider that may be invoked
before the Application.onCreate() method has finished its
execution), and that I know that this initialization checking and
execution just takes less than 10 ms.

However, one of my application component, an IntentService, needs to
run in another process (this is a constraint that I cannot bypass):
this is the exception to my rule, i.e., it does not need the
initialization to be run, and moreover it should not. How can I do so
that the initialization check in my Application.onCreate() method be
not invoked in that special case, please?

I hope that my question is now clearer. Thank you for reading, and
hopefully for proposing a solution.

Regards,
Édouard

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Re: [android-developers] Re: How to know what internal process runs an application

2011-07-24 Thread Mark Murphy
On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 1:06 PM, elDoudou the.edouard.merc...@gmail.com wrote:
 As far as I understand, when an application process starts, its
 Application.onCreate() method is invoked, right? Since I do not want
 to check that my application process is properly initialized in all my
 Activities, BroadcastReceivers, IntentServices, Services,
 ContentProviders..., I decided to initialize some variables during
 that Application.onCreate() method.

As Ms. Hackborn has pointed out on many different occasions, you can
just as easily accomplish this via a static data member, either
initialized on first access or initialized when the class containing
said static data member is referred to.

 However, one of my application component, an IntentService, needs to
 run in another process (this is a constraint that I cannot bypass):
 this is the exception to my rule, i.e., it does not need the
 initialization to be run, and moreover it should not.

Move the code out of a custom Application class and into a static data
member. Do not refer to the class containing said static data members
from your IntentService, and they will not be initialized.

For example, you could simply make your custom Application class no
longer extend Application, rig it up to follow a standard Java
singleton pattern, and not refer to it from the IntentService (or
anywhere else that does not need it). When one of your other
components needs this stuff, they will refer to the class, causing it
to be loaded and go through your 10ms initialization logic.

 How can I do so
 that the initialization check in my Application.onCreate() method be
 not invoked in that special case, please?

You don't, as Ms. Hackborn pointed out previously on this thread.

-- 
Mark Murphy (a Commons Guy)
http://commonsware.com | http://github.com/commonsguy
http://commonsware.com/blog | http://twitter.com/commonsguy

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[android-developers] Re: How to know what internal process runs an application

2011-07-24 Thread elDoudou
Thank you Mark for taking care to answer.

I have already thought of implementing it the straightforward way you
propose, but I think that this is not satisfactory, for the reasons I
have attempted to expose in my previous post.

I'm sorry, but your answer does not answer my requirements, and as I
stated, having to insert a line of code referring a static method
every where I need to make sure my application is initialized is for a
poor design, because I have something like 100 Activity classes in my
application (yes, this is a very big application), and I cannot
prevent from forgetting to insert the piece of code somewhere. I
prefer to have an interception design pattern, so as to circumvent
that issue. I'd prefer not to have to derive from abstract classes
neither.

If someone is eager to accept my requirements and propose a solution,
or simply state that there are no solution, I'd be very grateful.

I still do not understand why the Android platform does not expose the
android:process information at runtime when starting up a process,
because this is something declared in the AndroidManifest.xml, and
that it may provide valuable information for developers at runtime,
event if, yes, I understood, an application process is just an
anonymous container ;) In my opinion, it should not be that anonymous
when you explicitly state a value in the manifest, and I do not expect
to get the PID, just the declared android:process value, because
this is not an implementation detail, this is a structural
information.

Regards,
Édouard

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[android-developers] Re: How to know what internal process runs an application

2011-07-22 Thread albnok
I don't know how Services work, but with IntentService you can send an
intent that says hey I'm launching the IntentService from an
Activity! and catch it in onHandleIntent or onStartCommand.


On Jul 19, 2:19 am, elDoudou the.edouard.merc...@gmail.com wrote:
 Thank you Diane.

 I may have a problem with my design, but if I'm wrong, I'd be
 delighted to be well guided.

 I would like my application to initialize a certain way when it is
 started with an Activity (for instance, I want to set up some caching
 stuff), whereas when launched via a Service, I do not need it to be
 initialized that way. The solution that I have found so far is to
 override the Application.onCreate() method, so as to be notified
 every time the application process starts, and quick-initialize some
 stuff.

 I have declared two android:processes because I thought that it
 might be possible to distinguish the cause of the application process
 start, but if you say that it is not possible to determine the
 android:process responsible for the start of the process, how can I
 solve my problem, please?

 Do you have in mind another design pattern which enables the
 application to be notified at startup, whatever Activity,
 BroadcastReceiver, Service causes its process to start so as to
 initialize some stuff, and to distinguish a specific Service where no
 initialization is supposed to be run, please?

 I would be very grateful to the person who is able to unblock me. And
 please, do not tell me that I have a design problem eventually ;)

 Regards,
 Édouard

 On 14 juil, 20:05, Dianne Hackborn hack...@android.com wrote:







  Sorry, there is no way to know.  Processes are basically anonymous
  containers in which to run code.  If you are needing to distinguish them,
  you have a problem in your design.

  On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 1:43 AM, elDoudou 
  the.edouard.merc...@gmail.comwrote:

   Hello Doug and thank you.

   The process id does not indicate the Android declared process in the
   AndroidManifest.xml file, unfortunately. What I need to know is the
   android:process which causes the process to start. If I declare a
   service in the manifest with a specific process name (tag
   android:process), how do I know at runtime when this specific
   service process causes the Application::onCreate() method to be
   invoked, please?

   Thank you for your time and support. Regards,
   Édouard

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  hack...@android.com

  Note: please don't send private questions to me, as I don't have time to
  provide private support, and so won't reply to such e-mails.  All such
  questions should be posted on public forums, where I and others can see and
  answer them.

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[android-developers] Re: How to know what internal process runs an application

2011-07-22 Thread rich friedel
You should know if it either started via the Activity or the Service. I 
don't see an issue, or maybe I am just confused. It is not like the app 
magically starts without you, the developer, explicitly knowing how it 
started. You created the entry points from which the app can start. From 
there you pass some sort of data to let whatever is in the hierarchy know 
that something has happened it responds accordingly.

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Re: [android-developers] Re: How to know what internal process runs an application

2011-07-22 Thread Dianne Hackborn
Be we are still not getting to the core problem -- why do you need to have
your app initialized certain different ways depending on these uses?  How
have you gotten to this point?  It is the fundamental problem.  This is just
not naturally how Android works -- processes are simply containers to host
specific components like activities and services.

On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 11:19 AM, elDoudou the.edouard.merc...@gmail.comwrote:

 Thank you Diane.

 I may have a problem with my design, but if I'm wrong, I'd be
 delighted to be well guided.

 I would like my application to initialize a certain way when it is
 started with an Activity (for instance, I want to set up some caching
 stuff), whereas when launched via a Service, I do not need it to be
 initialized that way. The solution that I have found so far is to
 override the Application.onCreate() method, so as to be notified
 every time the application process starts, and quick-initialize some
 stuff.

 I have declared two android:processes because I thought that it
 might be possible to distinguish the cause of the application process
 start, but if you say that it is not possible to determine the
 android:process responsible for the start of the process, how can I
 solve my problem, please?

 Do you have in mind another design pattern which enables the
 application to be notified at startup, whatever Activity,
 BroadcastReceiver, Service causes its process to start so as to
 initialize some stuff, and to distinguish a specific Service where no
 initialization is supposed to be run, please?

 I would be very grateful to the person who is able to unblock me. And
 please, do not tell me that I have a design problem eventually ;)

 Regards,
 Édouard


 On 14 juil, 20:05, Dianne Hackborn hack...@android.com wrote:
  Sorry, there is no way to know.  Processes are basically anonymous
  containers in which to run code.  If you are needing to distinguish them,
  you have a problem in your design.
 
  On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 1:43 AM, elDoudou the.edouard.merc...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   Hello Doug and thank you.
 
   The process id does not indicate the Android declared process in the
   AndroidManifest.xml file, unfortunately. What I need to know is the
   android:process which causes the process to start. If I declare a
   service in the manifest with a specific process name (tag
   android:process), how do I know at runtime when this specific
   service process causes the Application::onCreate() method to be
   invoked, please?
 
   Thank you for your time and support. Regards,
   Édouard
 
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 android-developers@googlegroups.com
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  Android framework engineer
  hack...@android.com
 
  Note: please don't send private questions to me, as I don't have time to
  provide private support, and so won't reply to such e-mails.  All such
  questions should be posted on public forums, where I and others can see
 and
  answer them.

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Dianne Hackborn
Android framework engineer
hack...@android.com

Note: please don't send private questions to me, as I don't have time to
provide private support, and so won't reply to such e-mails.  All such
questions should be posted on public forums, where I and others can see and
answer them.

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[android-developers] Re: How to know what internal process runs an application

2011-07-18 Thread elDoudou
Thank you Diane.

I may have a problem with my design, but if I'm wrong, I'd be
delighted to be well guided.

I would like my application to initialize a certain way when it is
started with an Activity (for instance, I want to set up some caching
stuff), whereas when launched via a Service, I do not need it to be
initialized that way. The solution that I have found so far is to
override the Application.onCreate() method, so as to be notified
every time the application process starts, and quick-initialize some
stuff.

I have declared two android:processes because I thought that it
might be possible to distinguish the cause of the application process
start, but if you say that it is not possible to determine the
android:process responsible for the start of the process, how can I
solve my problem, please?

Do you have in mind another design pattern which enables the
application to be notified at startup, whatever Activity,
BroadcastReceiver, Service causes its process to start so as to
initialize some stuff, and to distinguish a specific Service where no
initialization is supposed to be run, please?

I would be very grateful to the person who is able to unblock me. And
please, do not tell me that I have a design problem eventually ;)

Regards,
Édouard


On 14 juil, 20:05, Dianne Hackborn hack...@android.com wrote:
 Sorry, there is no way to know.  Processes are basically anonymous
 containers in which to run code.  If you are needing to distinguish them,
 you have a problem in your design.

 On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 1:43 AM, elDoudou 
 the.edouard.merc...@gmail.comwrote:









  Hello Doug and thank you.

  The process id does not indicate the Android declared process in the
  AndroidManifest.xml file, unfortunately. What I need to know is the
  android:process which causes the process to start. If I declare a
  service in the manifest with a specific process name (tag
  android:process), how do I know at runtime when this specific
  service process causes the Application::onCreate() method to be
  invoked, please?

  Thank you for your time and support. Regards,
  Édouard

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  Groups Android Developers group.
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 --
 Dianne Hackborn
 Android framework engineer
 hack...@android.com

 Note: please don't send private questions to me, as I don't have time to
 provide private support, and so won't reply to such e-mails.  All such
 questions should be posted on public forums, where I and others can see and
 answer them.

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[android-developers] Re: How to know what internal process runs an application

2011-07-14 Thread rich friedel


I am an Android advanced developer and I have a good reason to spawn a 
new process.

Awesome so you should know all there is to know about how Android uses 
processes :) not sure why you came here then??? 

Do I really need to dig more in the 
Android source code? 

Yeah with your shitty attitude and rude, arrogant responses I would say that 
is your best route ;) 

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Re: [android-developers] Re: How to know what internal process runs an application

2011-07-14 Thread Dianne Hackborn
Sorry, there is no way to know.  Processes are basically anonymous
containers in which to run code.  If you are needing to distinguish them,
you have a problem in your design.

On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 1:43 AM, elDoudou the.edouard.merc...@gmail.comwrote:

 Hello Doug and thank you.

 The process id does not indicate the Android declared process in the
 AndroidManifest.xml file, unfortunately. What I need to know is the
 android:process which causes the process to start. If I declare a
 service in the manifest with a specific process name (tag
 android:process), how do I know at runtime when this specific
 service process causes the Application::onCreate() method to be
 invoked, please?

 Thank you for your time and support. Regards,
 Édouard

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Note: please don't send private questions to me, as I don't have time to
provide private support, and so won't reply to such e-mails.  All such
questions should be posted on public forums, where I and others can see and
answer them.

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[android-developers] Re: How to know what internal process runs an application

2011-07-13 Thread Doug
On Jul 12, 1:43 am, elDoudou the.edouard.merc...@gmail.com wrote:
 The process id does not indicate the Android declared process in the
 AndroidManifest.xml file, unfortunately. What I need to know is the
 android:process which causes the process to start. If I declare a
 service in the manifest with a specific process name (tag
 android:process), how do I know at runtime when this specific
 service process causes the Application::onCreate() method to be
 invoked, please?

Why do you need to know in Application.inCreate()?  Couldn't your
action be postponed until the component starts (at which point you
will definitely know the process)?

Doug

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[android-developers] Re: How to know what internal process runs an application

2011-07-12 Thread Doug
Why not query the pid of each process and keep track of them?  That
shouldn't be so hard.

Doug

On Jul 10, 11:46 pm, elDoudou the.edouard.merc...@gmail.com wrote:
 Mark, your answer does not answer to my problem.

 I am an Android advanced developer and I have a good reason to spawn a
 new process. Anyone by Google? Do I really need to dig more in the
 Android source code?

 Thank you for your time. Regards,
 Édouard

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[android-developers] Re: How to know what internal process runs an application

2011-07-12 Thread elDoudou
Hello Doug and thank you.

The process id does not indicate the Android declared process in the
AndroidManifest.xml file, unfortunately. What I need to know is the
android:process which causes the process to start. If I declare a
service in the manifest with a specific process name (tag
android:process), how do I know at runtime when this specific
service process causes the Application::onCreate() method to be
invoked, please?

Thank you for your time and support. Regards,
Édouard

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[android-developers] Re: How to know what internal process runs an application

2011-07-11 Thread elDoudou
Mark, your answer does not answer to my problem.

I am an Android advanced developer and I have a good reason to spawn a
new process. Anyone by Google? Do I really need to dig more in the
Android source code?

Thank you for your time. Regards,
Édouard

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