Re: [anti-abuse-wg] Periodic Reminder: List Conduct

2020-01-17 Thread Fi Shing
It appears you missed the point of my email. How can you say rules apply to this list, but not RIPE itself? Given the logic of many on this list: + You are not the internet police, + Some people may not agree with a rule, so therefore there are no rules at all, + you, as an

Re: [anti-abuse-wg] @EXT: RE: working in new version of 2019-04 (Validation of "abuse-mailbox")

2020-01-17 Thread Richard Clayton
In message <1609071e-bf44-4e1d-9c81-98616f11b...@consulintel.es>, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via anti-abuse-wg writes >El 16/1/20 21:37, "anti-abuse-wg en nombre de Richard Clayton" boun...@ripe.net en nombre de rich...@highwayman.com> escribió: > >In message , JORDI >PALET MARTINEZ via

[anti-abuse-wg] Fw: working in new version of 2019-04 (Validation of "abuse-mailbox")

2020-01-17 Thread ripedenis--- via anti-abuse-wg
Yes of course it would have to be an automated process. A benefit of encrypting all the data is that it keeps the RIPE NCC out of any legal actions that may follow. They are simply a forwarding service and have no other details. cheers denis co-chair DB-WG On Friday, 17 January 2020,

Re: [anti-abuse-wg] working in new version of 2019-04 (Validation of "abuse-mailbox")

2020-01-17 Thread JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via anti-abuse-wg
Maybe I’m not using the right wording. What I’m suggesting is and “intermediation” but automated. NCC staff doesn’t “see” anything, just goes thru a system that logs everything and forwards to each other party. El 17/1/20 13:04, "Volker Greimann" escribió: Hmm, if you include RIPE NCC

Re: [anti-abuse-wg] working in new version of 2019-04 (Validation of "abuse-mailbox")

2020-01-17 Thread Briaut René
STOP SPAM Envoyé de mon iPhone par René Briaut Le 17 janv. 2020 à 13:04, Volker Greimann a écrit : Hmm, if you include RIPE NCC in all responses, you will greatly increase the overhead and noise to signal ratio it has to deal with. It may be better to maintain the ability to audit the

Re: [anti-abuse-wg] working in new version of 2019-04 (Validation of "abuse-mailbox")

2020-01-17 Thread Volker Greimann
Hmm, if you include RIPE NCC in all responses, you will greatly increase the overhead and noise to signal ratio it has to deal with. It may be better to maintain the ability to audit the responses. instead of receiving them all. -- Volker A. Greimann General Counsel and Policy Manager

Re: [anti-abuse-wg] Periodic Reminder: List Conduct

2020-01-17 Thread Brian Nisbet
Honestly, you can disagree all you want, but there are rules of conduct in the RIPE community and on this list. My email served as a polite reminder of those rules. If a member of the list chooses not to follow them, then steps will be taken in regards to direct communication, then moderation

Re: [anti-abuse-wg] Periodic Reminder: List Conduct

2020-01-17 Thread Fi Shing
>> but we can tell you not to do it here, so please don't. Well... no, i disagree. Brian Nisbet, i would like to remind you, that ... You are not the Internet Police. In fact, what you consider to be a rule, might not be something that every single person on this planet also considers to

Re: [anti-abuse-wg] working in new version of 2019-04 (Validation of "abuse-mailbox")

2020-01-17 Thread JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via anti-abuse-wg
Hi Alessandro, El 17/1/20 10:24, "anti-abuse-wg en nombre de Alessandro Vesely" escribió: Hi, a few points: The “abuse-mailbox:” attribute must be available in an unrestricted way via whois, APIs and future techniques. I'd explicitly mention RDAP

[anti-abuse-wg] working in new version of 2019-04 (Validation of "abuse-mailbox")

2020-01-17 Thread JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via anti-abuse-wg
Hi Michele, (changing the subject so we can correctly track this and following emails) The last version is available here: https://www.ripe.net/participate/policies/proposals/2019-04 But the goal of this discussion is to understand what the community want, for making a new version. I think

Re: [anti-abuse-wg] @EXT: RE: working in new version of 2019-04 (Validation of "abuse-mailbox")

2020-01-17 Thread Suresh Ramasubramanian
Not you either. There are many others vocally arguing for complete inaction. —srs From: Gert Doering Sent: Friday, January 17, 2020 1:34 PM To: Suresh Ramasubramanian Cc: Randy Bush; anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] @EXT: RE: working in new

Re: [anti-abuse-wg] working in new version of 2019-04 (Validation of "abuse-mailbox")

2020-01-17 Thread JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via anti-abuse-wg
I will be fine with this (having RIPE NCC as an intermediator just to send the abuse report), if instead of a web form (or in addition to it), it is possible to automate it, for example RIPE NCC also accepts x-arf via email. RIPE NCC has the obligation to keep the information without disclosing

[anti-abuse-wg] Abuse mailbox validation?

2020-01-17 Thread Michele Neylon - Blacknight
I've been trying to follow the back and forth here over the last few days and to be honest I'm rather confused. Which text is actually being proposed? A lot of the discussion here seems to have gone off into all sorts of tangents and it's hard to see what is actually being discussed Michele

Re: [anti-abuse-wg] @EXT: RE: working in new version of 2019-04 (Validation of "abuse-mailbox")

2020-01-17 Thread JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via anti-abuse-wg
Hi Denis, El 17/1/20 0:30, "ripede...@yahoo.co.uk" escribió: Colleagues I have just read this whole thread, it took a while (I should get sick more often and spend a day in bed reading emails). I have a few points to make. Some are similar to points already raised but I will

Re: [anti-abuse-wg] @EXT: RE: working in new version of 2019-04 (Validation of "abuse-mailbox")

2020-01-17 Thread JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via anti-abuse-wg
Hi Richard, El 16/1/20 21:37, "anti-abuse-wg en nombre de Richard Clayton" escribió: In message , JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via anti-abuse-wg writes >So, if I'm reading it correctly (not being a lawyer), a service provider not >acting against abuse when it has been

Re: [anti-abuse-wg] working in new version of 2019-04 (Validation of "abuse-mailbox")

2020-01-17 Thread Alessandro Vesely
Hi, a few points: The “abuse-mailbox:” attribute must be available in an unrestricted way via whois, APIs and future techniques. I'd explicitly mention RDAP here. It's not a future technique any more Confirm that the resource holder understands the procedure and the policy,

Re: [anti-abuse-wg] @EXT: RE: working in new version of 2019-04 (Validation of "abuse-mailbox")

2020-01-17 Thread Brian Nisbet
Sérgio, I’m not sure if you’ve had the opportunity to read the RIPE Policy Development Process - https://www.ripe.net/participate/policies - but it lays out how policy is created in the community. Very deliberately this is not a vote, it comes out of discussion (which can, at times, seem to

Re: [anti-abuse-wg] @EXT: RE: working in new version of 2019-04 (Validation of "abuse-mailbox")

2020-01-17 Thread Gert Doering
Hi, On Fri, Jan 17, 2020 at 02:44:30AM +, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote: > Database and routing people who haven???t worked security or don???t want > security roles trying to lecture people who work cert and abuse roles on why > something abuse mitigation related won???t work is always