Re: [apple-crop] Deer, Fireblight, Liquid Fence
I use a product called Bobbex. From a trial which seemed objective, it out-performed other deer repellant products. This product is recommended only for use on non-bearing trees, as it supposedly imparts an off-flavor to the fruit, which was actually a selling point for me. Anything that lasts so long as to render sprayed fruit inedible must last a long time. I've been using it for the last three years on new plantings with good success. My experience so far with it is that deer won't eat sprayed foliage, but will eat any new growth unsprayed. At their recommended mix, Bobbex is about 1/2 price for finished spray compared to the liquid fence mentioned above. A 5 gallon pail costs about $200 online. I've been mixing it at 1/2 of recommended strength and still getting good protection as long as new growth is covered. I use it on new trees during the rutting season and it also seems to help reduce rutting. We have plans to put an electric fence up in the near future which of course is the only true protection. Mark Angermayer Tubby Fruits ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] Deer, Fireblight, Liquid Fence
The only deer deterrent I've seen that works long term is a good fence. I don't doubt you that deer can spread blight. I never believed it until it happened to me but fire blight can also be spread from the smoke (or more likely ash) from a burn pile. When a neighbor removed a block of severely blight Bosc pears the plume of smoke that expanded from the burn pile exactly matched the subsequent infection that occurred on full bloom Gala trees. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Lane Corvallis, MT 59828 406-961-3025 Cell- 406-529-2409 -Original Message- From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of lee elliott Sent: Monday, June 09, 2014 6:52 AM To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Subject: [apple-crop] Deer, Fireblight, Liquid Fence Deer browsing on young trees is spreading fireblight, I know this is true, a small fenced in area in my orchard has little to no fireblight while the rest is fire blight city, I am using Liquid Fence,on newly planted trees, its a product made from putrified egg whites, this stuff really works but has to be applied every 10 days or after major rain storms, problem is its is very expensive, a bottle that treats 4 gallons is $30 at the local farm store. I would like to know how to make some myself, does anyone know how to do this?? Lee Elliott, winchester, Illinois On Fri, 6/6/14, apple-crop-requ...@virtualorchard.net apple-crop-requ...@virtualorchard.net wrote: Subject: apple-crop Digest, Vol 42, Issue 14 To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Date: Friday, June 6, 2014, 11:00 AM Send apple-crop mailing list submissions to apple-crop@virtualorchard.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to apple-crop-requ...@virtualorchard.net You can reach the person managing the list at apple-crop-ow...@virtualorchard.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of apple-crop digest... Today's Topics: 1. Re: Sprayer Calibration Between Training Styles (Fleming, William) -- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 09:17:17 -0600 From: Fleming, William w...@exchange.montana.edu To: Apple-crop discussion list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Subject: Re: [apple-crop] Sprayer Calibration Between Training Styles Message-ID: 0ed0d5ff52b2b3469bc620dba56ed85c8963169...@excms.msu.montana.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Nick, as long as you are getting sufficient coverage in both growing systems I would personally find it easier to mix up two different tanks with different quantities of material rather than mess with swapping nozzles. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center Corvallis, MT 59828 -Original Message- From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Nick Lucking Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 12:54 AM To: apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] Sprayer Calibration Between Training Styles Thanks for the responses. So when you guys use the spray controllers do you try to maintain the same GPA across all blocks? Seems like if you don't have one (like me) and you mix a tank to apply across multiple training styles with varying row spacing the pesticide rate per acre would be out of whack between them. Here's my scenario. 1.5 acres is conventional free standing and 1.5 is tall spindle. When I did TRV calculations last season and checked the GPM of sprayer nozzles obviously with the difference in row spacing the rate was way higher for the tall spindle block. When I adjusted the gear speed so the GPA would match the free standing block, tractor speed was way too fast ~4 MPH. I suppose I could get another set of smaller nozzles for the tall spindle block to try to keep things even between blocks. Any further advise? Cheers, Nick Lucking Cannon Valley Orchard Cannon Falls, MN ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://virtualorchard.net/pipermail/apple-crop/attachments/20140606/d08bb74a/attachment-0001.html -- ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop End of apple-crop Digest, Vol 42, Issue 14
Re: [apple-crop] Deer, Fireblight, Liquid Fence
Lee, we use a product called Repells All by Bonide that lasts up to 2 months and is made up of Dried Blood , Putrescent whole egg solids, Garlic oil, Acetic Acid, Potassium Sorbate, Cloves, Fish oil, Onions, Meat meal, Seaweed, Vanillin, Vitamin E, and Wintergreen oil. It comes in a 6 lb. bag as granules and is also available in liquid. The granules are a bit less expensive and are rainfast within 6 hours. A six pound bag costs about $30 and covers about 5,000 square feet. We use it in our sugar cube melons to keep the raccoons off them and around our young trees to keep the deer off them. One bag covers about 3 to 4 400' rows of trees. I don't know if this would be less expensive for you, but the product really does work for us. Dennis Norton IPM Specialist/Certified Nurseryman Royal Oak Farm Orchard 15908 Hebron Rd. Harvard, IL 60033-9357 Office (815) 648-4467 Mobile (815) 228-2174 Fax (609) 228-2174 http://www.royaloakfarmorchard.com http://www.royaloakfarmorchard.blogspot.com - Original Message - From: lee elliott To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Sent: Monday, June 09, 2014 7:52 AM Subject: [apple-crop] Deer, Fireblight, Liquid Fence Deer browsing on young trees is spreading fireblight, I know this is true, a small fenced in area in my orchard has little to no fireblight while the rest is fire blight city, I am using Liquid Fence,on newly planted trees, its a product made from putrified egg whites, this stuff really works but has to be applied every 10 days or after major rain storms, problem is its is very expensive, a bottle that treats 4 gallons is $30 at the local farm store. I would like to know how to make some myself, does anyone know how to do this?? Lee Elliott, winchester, Illinois On Fri, 6/6/14, apple-crop-requ...@virtualorchard.net apple-crop-requ...@virtualorchard.net wrote: Subject: apple-crop Digest, Vol 42, Issue 14 To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Date: Friday, June 6, 2014, 11:00 AM Send apple-crop mailing list submissions to apple-crop@virtualorchard.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to apple-crop-requ...@virtualorchard.net You can reach the person managing the list at apple-crop-ow...@virtualorchard.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of apple-crop digest... Today's Topics: 1. Re: Sprayer Calibration Between Training Styles (Fleming, William) -- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 09:17:17 -0600 From: Fleming, William w...@exchange.montana.edu To: Apple-crop discussion list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Subject: Re: [apple-crop] Sprayer Calibration Between Training Styles Message-ID: 0ed0d5ff52b2b3469bc620dba56ed85c8963169...@excms.msu.montana.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Nick, as long as you are getting sufficient coverage in both growing systems I would personally find it easier to mix up two different tanks with different quantities of material rather than mess with swapping nozzles. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center Corvallis, MT 59828 -Original Message- From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Nick Lucking Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 12:54 AM To: apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] Sprayer Calibration Between Training Styles Thanks for the responses. So when you guys use the spray controllers do you try to maintain the same GPA across all blocks? Seems like if you don't have one (like me) and you mix a tank to apply across multiple training styles with varying row spacing the pesticide rate per acre would be out of whack between them. Here's my scenario. 1.5 acres is conventional free standing and 1.5 is tall spindle. When I did TRV calculations last season and checked the GPM of sprayer nozzles obviously with the difference in row spacing the rate was way higher for the tall spindle block. When I adjusted the gear speed so the GPA would match the free standing block, tractor speed was way too fast ~4 MPH. I suppose I could get another set of smaller nozzles for the tall spindle block to try to keep things even between blocks. Any further advise? Cheers, Nick Lucking Cannon Valley Orchard Cannon Falls, MN ___ apple-crop mailing list
Re: [apple-crop] Deer, Fireblight, Liquid Fence
I've tried many products and most of the ones mentioned in this thread. Liquid Fence = Ranch Dressing. Dried Blood is deer code for Merlot. Here in Montana, if a deer is hungry, he will eat anything. I finally put in an eight foot high tensile fence. On Mon, Jun 9, 2014 at 7:59 AM, dmnor...@royaloakfarmorchard.com wrote: Lee, we use a product called Repells All by Bonide that lasts up to 2 months and is made up of Dried Blood , Putrescent whole egg solids, Garlic oil, Acetic Acid, Potassium Sorbate, Cloves, Fish oil, Onions, Meat meal, Seaweed, Vanillin, Vitamin E, and Wintergreen oil. It comes in a 6 lb. bag as granules and is also available in liquid. The granules are a bit less expensive and are rainfast within 6 hours. A six pound bag costs about $30 and covers about 5,000 square feet. We use it in our sugar cube melons to keep the raccoons off them and around our young trees to keep the deer off them. One bag covers about 3 to 4 400' rows of trees. I don't know if this would be less expensive for you, but the product really does work for us. Dennis Norton IPM Specialist/Certified Nurseryman Royal Oak Farm Orchard 15908 Hebron Rd. Harvard, IL 60033-9357 Office (815) 648-4467 Mobile (815) 228-2174 Fax (609) 228-2174 http://www.royaloakfarmorchard.com http://www.royaloakfarmorchard.blogspot.com - Original Message - *From:* lee elliott pippm...@yahoo.com *To:* apple-crop@virtualorchard.net *Sent:* Monday, June 09, 2014 7:52 AM *Subject:* [apple-crop] Deer, Fireblight, Liquid Fence Deer browsing on young trees is spreading fireblight, I know this is true, a small fenced in area in my orchard has little to no fireblight while the rest is fire blight city, I am using Liquid Fence,on newly planted trees, its a product made from putrified egg whites, this stuff really works but has to be applied every 10 days or after major rain storms, problem is its is very expensive, a bottle that treats 4 gallons is $30 at the local farm store. I would like to know how to make some myself, does anyone know how to do this?? Lee Elliott, winchester, Illinois On Fri, 6/6/14, apple-crop-requ...@virtualorchard.net apple-crop-requ...@virtualorchard.net wrote: Subject: apple-crop Digest, Vol 42, Issue 14 To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Date: Friday, June 6, 2014, 11:00 AM Send apple-crop mailing list submissions to apple-crop@virtualorchard.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to apple-crop-requ...@virtualorchard.net You can reach the person managing the list at apple-crop-ow...@virtualorchard.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of apple-crop digest... Today's Topics: 1. Re: Sprayer Calibration Between Training Styles (Fleming, William) -- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 09:17:17 -0600 From: Fleming, William w...@exchange.montana.edu To: Apple-crop discussion list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Subject: Re: [apple-crop] Sprayer Calibration Between Training Styles Message-ID: 0ed0d5ff52b2b3469bc620dba56ed85c8963169...@excms.msu.montana.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Nick, as long as you are getting sufficient coverage in both growing systems I would personally find it easier to mix up two different tanks with different quantities of material rather than mess with swapping nozzles. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center Corvallis, MT 59828 -Original Message- From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Nick Lucking Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 12:54 AM To: apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] Sprayer Calibration Between Training Styles Thanks for the responses. So when you guys use the spray controllers do you try to maintain the same GPA across all blocks? Seems like if you don't have one (like me) and you mix a tank to apply across multiple training styles with varying row spacing the pesticide rate per acre would be out of whack between them. Here's my scenario. 1.5 acres is conventional free standing and 1.5 is tall spindle. When I did TRV calculations last season and checked the GPM of sprayer nozzles obviously with the difference in row spacing the rate was way higher for the tall spindle block. When I adjusted the gear speed so the GPA would match the free standing block, tractor speed was way too fast ~4 MPH. I suppose I could get another set of smaller nozzles for the tall spindle block to try to keep things even between blocks. Any further advise? Cheers, Nick Lucking
Re: Apple-Crop: deer
This is the first year we have used a flat fence. Our is currently about 50' by 100-110' by 50 '. We used the regular chicken wire 4' wide comes in a roll. We laid it out on a fairly flat area about 2 -3 feet away from the closest tree, strawberry section, sweet corn section and some grapes. We only use 3 sides since the unfenced area is within reach of the lead preventer from the the porch. Seriously, it seems that deer and raccoons do not like to walk across it. While the deer may jump a above the ground fence they do not seem to want to jump across the 4'. Maybe because they can not see what is there. Grass and weeds are problematic. We and just roll it over and mow then roll it back. There could be other solutions to larger areas with or without herbicides. Maybe just something to burn them down. Weeds and grasses do tend to push up the wire and it may provide areas that smaller critters could go under. Each application would have to be created for the individual situation. We are planning on expansion next year and will have to expand. Hope this helps and at least it is stimulating ideas. Just an interesting aside...we put out 2000+/- trees mostly hardwoods/pines) and 2000+/- shrubs on 30 acres last year. We were anticipating a lot of loss to deer and rabbits. What we have found is a loss of only about 0.5% to critters. We mow a path around the outer perimeter. Looking at the tracks the deer like to follow the path way across the property. Most of the deer damage is within a foot or so of the path. We have had a large influx of coyotes this year and the rabbits are not here to do any damage. We do not mow between rows of trees or shrubs. The other area is summer grasses and they are thick and do not seem to attract the deer. Tom In a message dated 8/4/2009 9:00:31 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ed.fack...@gmail.com writes: I'd also like to hear more detail on it. My gut reaction is that while it may well work, controlling or managing weeds could be troublesome especially on highly erodible soils (created by herbicides...). Therefore Mr. (or Ms.) T. Curl, would you please comment further on your flat fence. Thanks. ed On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 8:13 AM, Bill Shoemaker _wshoe...@illinois.edu_ (mailto:wshoe...@illinois.edu) wrote: Sounds interesting. Could you describe what it is and how you think it works? Bill I am aware that large orchards and geology of where they are planted would play into it but has anyone tried flat fencing? We used it this year and it has kept out deer and raccoons. We used a combination of chicken wire and the plastic snow fencing. Seem they do not like stepping on it. At least it might be less expensive than an electric fence or could possibly be used in combination to reduce costs. Just a thought. T. Curl Fichthorn-Curl Farms Ohio, USA William H Shoemaker, UI-NRES Sr Research Specialist, Food Crops St Charles Horticulture Research Center 535 Randall Road St Charles, IL 60174 630-584-7254; FAX-584-4610 -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard _http://www.virtualorchard.net_ (http://www.virtualorchard.net/) and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements _webmas...@virtualorchard.net_ (mailto:webmas...@virtualorchard.net) . Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content.
Re: Apple-Crop: deer
Sounds interesting. Could you describe what it is and how you think it works? Bill I am aware that large orchards and geology of where they are planted would play into it but has anyone tried flat fencing? We used it this year and it has kept out deer and raccoons. We used a combination of chicken wire and the plastic snow fencing. Seem they do not like stepping on it. At least it might be less expensive than an electric fence or could possibly be used in combination to reduce costs. Just a thought. T. Curl Fichthorn-Curl Farms Ohio, USA William H Shoemaker, UI-NRES Sr Research Specialist, Food Crops St Charles Horticulture Research Center 535 Randall Road St Charles, IL 60174 630-584-7254; FAX-584-4610 -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements webmas...@virtualorchard.net. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content.
Re: Apple-Crop: deer
I'd also like to hear more detail on it. My gut reaction is that while it may well work, controlling or managing weeds could be troublesome especially on highly erodible soils (created by herbicides...). Therefore Mr. (or Ms.) T. Curl, would you please comment further on your flat fence. Thanks. ed On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 8:13 AM, Bill Shoemaker wshoe...@illinois.eduwrote: Sounds interesting. Could you describe what it is and how you think it works? Bill I am aware that large orchards and geology of where they are planted would play into it but has anyone tried flat fencing? We used it this year and it has kept out deer and raccoons. We used a combination of chicken wire and the plastic snow fencing. Seem they do not like stepping on it. At least it might be less expensive than an electric fence or could possibly be used in combination to reduce costs. Just a thought. T. Curl Fichthorn-Curl Farms Ohio, USA William H Shoemaker, UI-NRES Sr Research Specialist, Food Crops St Charles Horticulture Research Center 535 Randall Road St Charles, IL 60174 630-584-7254; FAX-584-4610 -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements webmas...@virtualorchard.net. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content.
Re: Apple-Crop: deer
Can't resist the question, what is a ten wire fence? Deer have electric noses (small openings mysteriously get larger, including breaking the wire in two) with all day to contemplate the situation, your green salad is enticing enough to keep them at the door. We have fenced off a herd of several hundred white tail deer next to a wild life preserve (the previous rancher was partial to the herd), it's a game of numbers and tolerance to damage. Our orchard was removed 3 years ago due to markets and hail, we dropped fencing patrols, last summer and winter was an eye opener, we fixed the fence in several days and broke the cycle, there is no damage this summer. Our two acres of grapes have had very little damage in 10 years, although I have seen extreme damage to young plants less than 1/2 mile away. Every situation is different and requires a different strategy, although we have found fencing to be the only method to keep them in check. Don't forget to patrol the fence once a week for most of the year. John Biele 334 Eastlake Road Oroville, Washington 98844 jbi...@hi-oasis.com On Aug 4, 2009, at 7:11 AM, Fleming, William wrote: I've only seen one horizontal fence, looked good. Owner said it worked well. It was 6 wide and hinged with one bolt about a foot off the ground so you could flip it up and mow underneath. Personally since most modern orcharists are set up for installing wire trellises a deer fence is actually quite easy. I just bought everything needed to install a 10 foot, ten wire fence for 30 acres, it was under $3000 for materials. I figure the installation will cost about the same and can be done during the normally slow time of year. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Ln Corvallis, MT 59828 (406)961-3025 From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net ] On Behalf Of Ed Fackler Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 6:43 AM To: Apple-Crop Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: deer I'd also like to hear more detail on it. My gut reaction is that while it may well work, controlling or managing weeds could be troublesome especially on highly erodible soils (created by herbicides...). Therefore Mr. (or Ms.) T. Curl, would you please comment further on your flat fence. Thanks. ed On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 8:13 AM, Bill Shoemaker wshoe...@illinois.edu wrote: Sounds interesting. Could you describe what it is and how you think it works? Bill I am aware that large orchards and geology of where they are planted would play into it but has anyone tried flat fencing? We used it this year and it has kept out deer and raccoons. We used a combination of chicken wire and the plastic snow fencing. Seem they do not like stepping on it. At least it might be less expensive than an electric fence or could possibly be used in combination to reduce costs. Just a thought. T. Curl Fichthorn-Curl Farms Ohio, USA William H Shoemaker, UI-NRES Sr Research Specialist, Food Crops St Charles Horticulture Research Center 535 Randall Road St Charles, IL 60174 630-584-7254; FAX-584-4610 -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements webmas...@virtualorchard.net. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content.
RE: Apple-Crop: deer
In a sense we do treat deer the same as codling moth, if we're smart we fence them out. Spraying for deer doesn't really work just like fencing out codling moth doesn't. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Ln Corvallis, MT 59828 (406)961-3025 -Original Message- From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-c...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of rkpeng...@aol.com Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 6:11 PM Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: deer -Original Message- From: Fleming, William w...@montana.edu To: Apple-Crop apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Sent: Wed, Jul 8, 2009 7:10 pm Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: deer At the risk of being branded by PETA as the Charles Manson of the animal world, why do growers treat deer (a pest of their fruit trees) differently than Codling Moth ( a pest of their fruit trees). -Original Message- From: Fleming, William w...@montana.edu To: Apple-Crop apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Sent: Wed, Jul 8, 2009 7:10 pm Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: deer I was planning on a 10' electric deer fence this fall but if Budweiser would work instead it's on sale right now. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center Corvallis, MT 59828 - - The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements webmas...@virtualorchard.net. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content. -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements webmas...@virtualorchard.net. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content. -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements webmas...@virtualorchard.net. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content.
Re: Apple-Crop: deer
Deer are like man: inherently lazy. They will browse where the feeding is easiest,and convenient. I have tried soap: doesn't work; scented twist ties:don't work and thiram: works but is too expensive and doesn't last long enough in my climate. Needless to say thiram is registered for scab, and not deer, but deer do not appear to like it's taste. Electric fencing is the best solution. The height and number of strands required is dependent on two things: 1) the number of deer in your immediate area and 2) the amount of alternative food sources in your immediate area. I use two strands which seems to work for me now... another year could be different. By the way we also have problems with porcupines, raccoons and last year beavers. Beavers do the most damage; they remove and haul away the entire tree!!! Waldo Walsh Birchleigh Farms 254 Bentley Road Berwick, Nova Scotia CANADA B0P 1E0 - Original Message - From: Fleming, William w...@montana.edu To: Apple-Crop apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 10:58 AM Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: deer In a sense we do treat deer the same as codling moth, if we're smart we fence them out. Spraying for deer doesn't really work just like fencing out codling moth doesn't. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Ln Corvallis, MT 59828 (406)961-3025 -Original Message- From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-c...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of rkpeng...@aol.com Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 6:11 PM Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: deer -Original Message- From: Fleming, William w...@montana.edu To: Apple-Crop apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Sent: Wed, Jul 8, 2009 7:10 pm Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: deer At the risk of being branded by PETA as the Charles Manson of the animal world, why do growers treat deer (a pest of their fruit trees) differently than Codling Moth ( a pest of their fruit trees). -Original Message- From: Fleming, William w...@montana.edu To: Apple-Crop apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Sent: Wed, Jul 8, 2009 7:10 pm Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: deer I was planning on a 10' electric deer fence this fall but if Budweiser would work instead it's on sale right now. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center Corvallis, MT 59828 - - The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements webmas...@virtualorchard.net. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content. -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements webmas...@virtualorchard.net. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content. -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements webmas...@virtualorchard.net. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content. -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements webmas...@virtualorchard.net. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content.
Re: Apple-Crop: deer
An interesting idea. One would need to keep weed growth within the flat fence area under control so that it would be obvious to those animals that might be considering traversing it. Any idea on what the necessary border strip width might need to be? Raccoons probably wouldn't need more than 3-4 ft, but deer can jump much further than that. I suspect bear likely would not be to comfortable with it either! -- Dr. Harold Larsen, Interim Manager - WCRC Res. Pathologist Ext. Fruit Dis. Specialist Colo. St. Univ., WCRC - Orchard Mesa 3168 B 1/2 Road Grand Junction, CO 81503-9621 Ph: (970) 434-3264, x-205 FAX: (970) 434-1035 EMail: harold.lar...@colostate.edu tcjmc...@aol.com wrote: I am aware that large orchards and geology of where they are planted would play into it but has anyone tried flat fencing? We used it this year and it has kept out deer and raccoons. We used a combination of chicken wire and the plastic snow fencing. Seem they do not like stepping on it. At least it might be less expensive than an electric fence or could possibly be used in combination to reduce costs. Just a thought. T. Curl Fichthorn-Curl Farms Ohio, USA In a message dated 8/3/2009 10:30:20 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, w...@montana.edu writes: In a sense we do treat deer the same as codling moth, if we're smart we fence them out. Spraying for deer doesn't really work just like fencing out codling moth doesn't. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Ln Corvallis, MT 59828 (406)961-3025 -Original Message- From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-c...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of rkpeng...@aol.com Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 6:11 PM Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: deer -Original Message- From: Fleming, William w...@montana.edu To: Apple-Crop apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Sent: Wed, Jul 8, 2009 7:10 pm Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: deer At the risk of being branded by PETA as the Charles Manson of the animal world, why do growers treat deer (a pest of their fruit trees) differently than Codling Moth ( a pest of their fruit trees). -Original Message- From: Fleming, William w...@montana.edu To: Apple-Crop apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Sent: Wed, Jul 8, 2009 7:10 pm Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: deer I was planning on a 10' electric deer fence this fall but if Budweiser would work instead it's on sale right now. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center Corvallis, MT 59828 - - The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements webmas...@virtualorchard.net. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content. -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements webmas...@virtualorchard.net. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content. -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements webmas...@virtualorchard.net. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content. -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements webmas...@virtualorchard.net. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content.
RE: Apple-Crop: deer
-Original Message- From: Fleming, William w...@montana.edu To: Apple-Crop apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Sent: Wed, Jul 8, 2009 7:10 pm Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: deer At the risk of being branded by PETA as the Charles Manson of the animal world, why do growers treat deer (a pest of their fruit trees) differently than Codling Moth ( a pest of their fruit trees). -Original Message- From: Fleming, William w...@montana.edu To: Apple-Crop apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Sent: Wed, Jul 8, 2009 7:10 pm Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: deer I was planning on a 10' electric deer fence this fall but if Budweiser would work instead it's on sale right now. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center Corvallis, MT 59828 - - The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements webmas...@virtualorchard.net. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content. -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements webmas...@virtualorchard.net. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content.
RE: Apple-Crop: deer
Deer The law tells us we face stiff penalties if Deer are made to disappear from a orchard. Where it is legal to do away with as many codling moths as possible as long as we use properly accepted and tested ammunition. Seems gun powder has not been tested enough, and is unacceptable outside of the inner cities. Where is the NRA when we need them. PS PETA can get naked and eat my deer as a proper natural wilderness experience. John Bellewoodapples.com -Original Message- From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-c...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of rkpeng...@aol.com Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 5:11 PM To: undisclosed-recipients: Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: deer -Original Message- From: Fleming, William w...@montana.edu To: Apple-Crop apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Sent: Wed, Jul 8, 2009 7:10 pm Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: deer At the risk of being branded by PETA as the Charles Manson of the animal world, why do growers treat deer (a pest of their fruit trees) differently than Codling Moth ( a pest of their fruit trees). -Original Message- From: Fleming, William w...@montana.edu To: Apple-Crop apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Sent: Wed, Jul 8, 2009 7:10 pm Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: deer I was planning on a 10' electric deer fence this fall but if Budweiser would work instead it's on sale right now. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center Corvallis, MT 59828 - - The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements webmas...@virtualorchard.net. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content. -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements webmas...@virtualorchard.net. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content. -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements webmas...@virtualorchard.net. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content.
Re: Apple-Crop: deer
I'll be looking for the stout on the 15th Mo. Art Kelly Kelly Orchards Acton, ME - Original Message - From: Mo Tougas To: Apple-Crop Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 5:23 PM Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: deer We have found that Irish Spring works best in combination with dryer sheets, and Guinness Stout. You need to hang both the sheets and the soap on the perimeter of the orchard, and place bottles of stout about every fifty feet or so. Lebricons will smell the Irish Spring and see the white dryer sheets, and think they are at a football (soccer) game. They will naturally drink the stout, while hanging around in the trees around the perimeter of the orchard. While they enjoy the stout they will make such a scene that no self respecting deer will be found near the orchard. Mo Tougas Tougas Family Farm Northborough,MA 01532 On Jul 7, 2009, at 2:49 PM, jerry sietsema wrote: Howard, how do you make that solution? What rates??? Thanks!!! - Original Message - From: Howard Claussen To: 'Apple-Crop' Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 7:35 AM Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: deer I have a small (150 tree) family orchard. I spray my trees with a solution of Irish Spring soap. Have not lost a tree in 15 years to deer or rabbits. I also hang each year ¼ bar of soap from each tree so
Re: Apple-Crop: deer
Looks like the stout may not be a good IPM strategy Mo. Bill I'll be looking for the stout on the 15th Mo. Art Kelly Kelly Orchards Acton, ME - Original Message - From: Mo Tougas To: Apple-Crop Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 5:23 PM Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: deer We have found that Irish Spring works best in combination with dryer sheets, and Guinness Stout. You need to hang both the sheets and the soap on the perimeter of the orchard, and place bottles of stout about every fifty feet or so. Lebricons will smell the Irish Spring and see the white dryer sheets, and think they are at a football (soccer) game. They will naturally drink the stout, while hanging around in the trees around the perimeter of the orchard. While they enjoy the stout they will make such a scene that no self respecting deer will be found near the orchard. Mo Tougas Tougas Family Farm Northborough,MA 01532 On Jul 7, 2009, at 2:49 PM, jerry sietsema wrote: Howard, how do you make that solution? What rates??? Thanks!!! - Original Message - From: Howard Claussen To: 'Apple-Crop' Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 7:35 AM Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: deer I have a small (150 tree) family orchard. I spray my trees with a solution of Irish Spring soap. Have not lost a tree in 15 years to deer or rabbits. I also hang each year A 1/4 bar of soap from each tree so William H Shoemaker, UI-NRES Sr Research Specialist, Food Crops St Charles Horticulture Research Center 535 Randall Road St Charles, IL 60174 630-584-7254; FAX-584-4610 -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements webmas...@virtualorchard.net. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content.
Re: Apple-Crop: deer
On the other hand, if the soap and dryer sheets don't do the trick, and the Lepricons don't show, the Stout will be there to help ease the pain the deer have caused. Mo On Jul 8, 2009, at 10:57 AM, Bill Shoemaker wrote: Looks like the stout may not be a good IPM strategy Mo. Bill I'll be looking for the stout on the 15th Mo. Art Kelly Kelly Orchards Acton, ME - Original Message - From: Mo Tougas To: Apple-Crop Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 5:23 PM Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: deer We have found that Irish Spring works best in combination with dryer sheets, and Guinness Stout. You need to hang both the sheets and the soap on the perimeter of the orchard, and place bottles of stout about every fifty feet or so. Lebricons will smell the Irish Spring and see the white dryer sheets, and think they are at a football (soccer) game. They will naturally drink the stout, while hanging around in the trees around the perimeter of the orchard. While they enjoy the stout they will make such a scene that no self respecting deer will be found near the orchard. Mo Tougas Tougas Family Farm Northborough,MA 01532 On Jul 7, 2009, at 2:49 PM, jerry sietsema wrote: Howard, how do you make that solution? What rates??? Thanks!!! - Original Message - From: Howard Claussen To: 'Apple-Crop' Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 7:35 AM Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: deer I have a small (150 tree) family orchard. I spray my trees with a solution of Irish Spring soap. Have not lost a tree in 15 years to deer or rabbits. I also hang each year A 1/4 bar of soap from each tree so William H Shoemaker, UI-NRES Sr Research Specialist, Food Crops St Charles Horticulture Research Center 535 Randall Road St Charles, IL 60174 630-584-7254; FAX-584-4610 -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements webmas...@virtualorchard.net. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content. -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements webmas...@virtualorchard.net. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content.
RE: Apple-Crop: deer
I was planning on a 10' electric deer fence this fall but if Budweiser would work instead it's on sale right now. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center Corvallis, MT 59828 -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements webmas...@virtualorchard.net. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content.
Re: Apple-Crop: deer
Jim, We tried the mint twists in 2008 as a switch up to hanging soap. Although the ties were easy to apply, the treatment didn't work very well. We had noticeably more browsing, damage, and deer activity than normal. For 2009, we went back to hanging soap. The issue may be that the essence in the ties expires more rapidly than the soap and re-application might be necessary. We heard reports that it worked well in NY state, but our results were disappointing in south central PA. So, I wouldn't necessarily consider the mint twists as an ineffective measure in other areas or where re-treatment is done. Brad M. Hollabaugh Hollabaugh Bros., Inc. Adams County Biglerville, PA www.hollabaughbros.com bittne...@aol.com wrote: Has anyone had experience using peppermint scented twist ties to deter deer from browsing on young trees? Jim Bittner Singer Farms 6620 Lake Rd Appleton, NY 14008 Phone 716-778-7330 *Email j...@singerfarms.com* www.singerfarms.com Looking for love this summer? Find it now on AOL Personals http://personals.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntuslove0003.
Re: Apple-Crop: deer
In our Connecticut conditions, none of the described 'cures' works at all. The deer are so hungry they ignore things like scents. A couple of years ago I spent a considerable amount of $ and placed garlic vials all over my small orchardI swear they nibbled the leaves immediately adjacent to these repellents. The soap bars don't work period under our heavy feeding conditions here in lower Fairfield county in SW Connecticut. I have two strands of electric fence just inside 8 high sheep fence. After they get their head thru a spot in the wire they break the electric strands (14 gauge) struggling thru. Best bet is the tight plastic 2x4 mesh fencing.and count on repairs regularly. I am considering going to that soon as I can get the time. Amateur in CT Karl W. Olson, D.M.D. -Original Message- From: Howard Claussen hclaus...@medtox.com To: 'Apple-Crop' apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Sent: Tue, Jul 7, 2009 7:35 am Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: deer I have a small (150 tree) family orchard. I spray my trees with a solution of Irish Spring soap. Have not lost a tree in 15 years to deer or rabbits. I also hang each year ¼ bar of soap from each tree so it refreshes in the rain From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-c...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of bittne...@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 5:18 AM To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Subject: Apple-Crop: deer Has anyone had experience using peppermint scent ed twist ties to deter deer from browsing on young trees? Jim Bittner Singer Farms 6620 Lake Rd Appleton, NY 14008 Phone 716-778-7330 Email j...@singerfarms.com www.singerfarms.com Looking for love this summer? Find it now on AOL Personals.
Re: Apple-Crop: deer
Howard, how do you make that solution? What rates??? Thanks!!! - Original Message - From: Howard Claussen To: 'Apple-Crop' Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 7:35 AM Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: deer I have a small (150 tree) family orchard. I spray my trees with a solution of Irish Spring soap. Have not lost a tree in 15 years to deer or rabbits. I also hang each year ¼ bar of soap from each tree so
