[arin-ppml] 2014-3 Remove 8.2/8.3/8.4 Minimum IPv4 Block Size Requirements

2014-03-19 Thread Owen DeLong
There has not been a lot of feedback on this proposal. It would be nice to have more input from a broader cross-section of the community. At present, I am leaning towards recommending that we abandon this proposal for lack of support by the community. If you support this action, please speak

Re: [arin-ppml] 2014-3 Remove 8.2/8.3/8.4 Minimum IPv4 Block Size Requirements

2014-03-19 Thread Martin Hannigan
On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 1:27 PM, David Huberman david.huber...@microsoft.com wrote: Hello, As the author, I proposed this policy because it is not ARIN's role to artificially regulate minimum block sizes. I feel this is especially in a post-exhaustion world, which is very quickly coming.

Re: [arin-ppml] 2014-3 Remove 8.2/8.3/8.4 Minimum IPv4 Block Size Requirements

2014-03-19 Thread David Huberman
Hello, As the author, I proposed this policy because it is not ARIN's role to artificially regulate minimum block sizes. I feel this is especially in a post-exhaustion world, which is very quickly coming. The economics of routing are the same today as they were 14 years ago when Bill

Re: [arin-ppml] 2014-3 Remove 8.2/8.3/8.4 Minimum IPv4 Block Size Requirements

2014-03-19 Thread David Huberman
Hi Scott, If I understand your argument - and I'm not sure I do, sorry - you're saying that it's good to have a policy that SPs can point to and say, no, you can't take that /32 we assigned to you with you? If that's what you're arguing, then why is a /24 any different than a /32? We see /24s

Re: [arin-ppml] 2014-3 Remove 8.2/8.3/8.4 Minimum IPv4 Block Size Requirements

2014-03-19 Thread Scott Leibrand
I'm thinking about things like a lawsuit where the plaintiff gets awarded all of the defendant's assets in question, and the plaintiff then asks ARIN to transfer the IPv4 defendant's /32 to them. If ARIN simply doesn't transfer /32s, then they can tell the judge I'm sorry, but we just can't do

Re: [arin-ppml] 2014-3 Remove 8.2/8.3/8.4 Minimum IPv4 Block Size Requirements

2014-03-19 Thread David Huberman
But regardless of the legal piece, I see no upside, and quite a bit of downside, to allowing IPv4 /32 transfers. Please articulate the quite a bit of downside. If we ignore the legal piece of your argument, as you said to, what are the problems with /32 transfers to the technical operations

Re: [arin-ppml] 2014-3 Remove 8.2/8.3/8.4 Minimum IPv4 Block Size Requirements

2014-03-19 Thread John Curran
On Mar 19, 2014, at 7:22 PM, Scott Leibrand scottleibr...@gmail.com wrote: I'm thinking about things like a lawsuit where the plaintiff gets awarded all of the defendant's assets in question, and the plaintiff then asks ARIN to transfer the IPv4 defendant's /32 to them. When that has

Re: [arin-ppml] 2014-3 Remove 8.2/8.3/8.4 Minimum IPv4 Block Size Requirements

2014-03-19 Thread Jimmy Hess
On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 11:17 AM, Owen DeLong o...@delong.com wrote: There has not been a lot of feedback on this proposal. It would be nice to have more input from a broader cross-section of the community. At present, I am leaning towards recommending that we abandon this proposal for lack

Re: [arin-ppml] 2014-3 Remove 8.2/8.3/8.4 Minimum IPv4 Block Size Requirements

2014-03-19 Thread Scott Leibrand
On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 11:34 AM, David Huberman david.huber...@microsoft.com wrote: But regardless of the legal piece, I see no upside, and quite a bit of downside, to allowing IPv4 /32 transfers. Please articulate the quite a bit of downside. If we ignore the legal piece of your

Re: [arin-ppml] 2014-3 Remove 8.2/8.3/8.4 Minimum IPv4 Block Size Requirements

2014-03-19 Thread Michael Peddemors
Personally, not sure if we should allow any transfer in a world of diminishing resources, use it or loose it.. But I speak definitely in favor of NOT allowing transfers less than /24, and since SWIP isn't allowed for /32 right now... (correct?) I suggest no smaller than a /29 On 14-03-19

Re: [arin-ppml] 2014-3 Remove 8.2/8.3/8.4 Minimum IPv4 Block Size Requirements

2014-03-19 Thread David Huberman
Hi Scott, Thanks for the great reply. I agree with a lot of what you are saying. I guess I'm stuck on the idea that this doesn't belong in ARIN policy. As you well note, ARIN policy is reflecting what has been the operational reality for a while now. And as you state, we could keep changing