[asterisk-users] OrderlyStats SE 1.6.2l now available.

2010-06-29 Thread Matt King
Hello,

Just thought you might like to know that our popular call center 
management and statistics package, OrderlyStats SE, has just got a new 
release.

Version 1.6.2l includes a several configuration changes and enhancements 
to provide seamless call integration with the popular Elastix 
distribution of Asterisk.

To download your free evaluation version, and start benefiting from 
improved visibility and easy call center management today, just visit 
http://www.orderlyq.com/asteriskcallcenterstatistics.html

Thanks for reading.

Kind regards,

Matt King
Managing Director
Orderly Software Ltd.

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[asterisk-users] Asterisk Queues Tutorial updated - Hot-Desking without Agent Channels

2009-12-02 Thread Matt King
Hello,

Just to let you know, our popular tutorial on setting up Asterisk for 
call centres has been updated.  The tutorial covers everything from 
initial Asterisk installation to full call centre configuration with 
dynamic login and hot-desking support for agents.

The old version of the tutorial used Agent Channels (e.g. Agent/1001) to 
distribute calls to agents through the Queue() application.  These have 
been deprecated since Asterisk 1.4, and the AgentCallbackLogin function 
is not supported as of Asterisk 1.6

The new version of our tutorial shows you how to achieve the same 
functionality (and more) with Local Channels, which are the recommended 
replacement for Agent Channels.

So, if you are setting up Asterisk for call centre use, or if you are 
currently using Agent Channels and want to maintain your upgrade path, 
please take a look at http://www.orderlyq.com/asteriskqueues.html and 
find out how it's done.

Thanks for reading.

Matt King, CEO Orderly Software.

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[asterisk-users] Packet Truncated - Choppy Audio

2009-02-17 Thread Matt King
Hi there,

We're having some complaints of choppy audio from our SIP customers.  
Asterisk is showing no errors, but I'm getting a lot of these in my syslog:

Feb 17 13:34:31 ntop[2863]:   **WARNING** packet truncated (14654-8232)

The first number varies, but the last number is always 8232.

I've read that this is a common MTU size, but none of our interfaces 
have an MTU of 8232.  Could it be that Asterisk is chopping the 
packets?  Has anyone seen this before?

Any assistance would be most gratefully received.

Regards,

Matt King
Managing Director
Orderly Software Ltd.

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Re: [asterisk-users] Packet Truncated - Choppy Audio

2009-02-17 Thread Matt King
Hello Danny,

Thank you for the swift reply!

As it turns out, this was an artifact from ntop, which has a default 
maximum buffer size of 8232 bytes.

We're still getting choppy audio, but we've ruled this error message out 
  as a possible cause.

Thanks again,

Matt.

From: Danny Nicholas da...@debsinc.com
Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Packet Truncated - Choppy Audio

This indicates that your NIC card is not handling the throughput
effectively.   Is * the only application on your server?  How many users are
on * when this occurs?



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Re: [asterisk-users] Queue time to answer/abandon + OrderlyStats Server Edition.

2009-01-27 Thread Matt King
Hi Gabriel,

Yes this information is shown in real-time and also in historical 
reports with the OrderlyStats system.

OrderlyStats is now available as a Server Edition you can download and 
install yourself, as well as the FREE managed service.

You can get it at http://www.orderlyq.com/statistics.html

Hope this helps,

Matt.

Gabriel Ortiz wrote:

Hi all,

  Is there a way to get the time that a specific queued call took to be
answered or abandoned?

Thanks,
Gabriel Ortiz



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Re: [asterisk-users] question about queue

2008-04-15 Thread Matt King

Two use-cases where autofill=no is desirable:

1)  If it's important that you answer your callers in strict order (i.e. 
in order to meet estimated wait time commitments etc).


2)  If your queue members/agents are local channels (as local channels 
are always available, so call attempts will be made regardless of who's 
talking).


Kind regards,

   Matt.

BJ wrote

/   This was something I put in a long while back on 1.2 branch because we really needed it for 1.2 
  to bug fix the behavior, but also needed to prevent the change in behavior for those that 
  didn't want it to change.

//
//   That being the case and we're in the day and age of 1.6 branches now, it'd be interesting to 
  think of what people would think of deprecating this option completely now in /trunk in favor 
  of the autofill=yes behavior being the only behavior available. I cannot think of any use 
  cases where the autofill=no behavior might be desirable. That being said, I also might have 
  blinders on so would be curious to here what the rest of the community has to say about it.

//
//   BJ/


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Re: [asterisk-users] queue logging

2008-04-09 Thread Matt King
Hello Arjan,

You can see who is in the queue, which agent is ringing, whether the 
agent is Paused, and which agent is connected to which caller, using 
OrderlyStats (FREE sign up at http://www.orderlyq.com/orderlystats.html 
). This is shown in Real Time, and also in the call history logs.

This will also show you whether the connection succeeded or failed 
as requested.

Kind regards,

   Matt -- OrderlyQ Support.

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[asterisk-users] Problem with TE205P with TeleWest in the UK

2007-12-13 Thread Matt King
Hi there,

We've got a problem connecting Asterisk with a TE205P to a TeleWest 
E1 ISDN line in the UK.

We get a lot of  HDLC Bad FCS (8) on Primary D-channel errors, and 
every so often the Primary D-channel goes down and all the calls got 
dropped.

We've fully tested the card and made sure it's got its own IRQ.  I 
was just wondering if anyone out there has had similar problems with 
this provider, and if so, how they managed to solve them...

Thanks for reading,

   Matt.

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Re: [asterisk-users] Queue Stats

2007-07-26 Thread Matt King
Hello Jay,

Sounds like quite a complicated set up.  Most queue statistics packages 
will break your callers down depending on which queue they were actually 
answered in (or hung up on).

If you want your stats listed as if the callers were in a single queue, 
you can sign up for a FREE OrderlyStats account at 
http://www.orderlyq.com/orderlystats.html - once you're all done, let us 
know and we'll show you how OrderlyStats can show these calls as if your 
three queues were just one.

Hope this helps,

Matt.

Jay wrote:

Greetings, list!

My boss would like some statistics on how many calls are answered out of 
specific queues during a given time period, and I'm not sure how exactly 
to obtain those stats.  Here's how our queue system works.

1) Call comes in and enters our 'ring' queue where the phones ring for 
15 seconds (caller hears the standard ring tone).

2) After 15 seconds, the caller falls into our 'music on hold' queue, a 
message is played and the caller hears our music on hold while the 
phones are rung again.

3) After 30 seconds, if the caller is still in our 'moh' queue, they 
drop out of queue and immediately re-enter the 'moh' queue again until 
the call is answered or the caller hangs up.

How can I find out how many calls are answered out of each queue during 
certain times (1st shift, 2nd shift, etc...)?  Also, I'm curious how I 
can track how many times a call repeats the 'moh' queue.

Thanks 





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Re: [asterisk-users] Queues monitoring software - OrderlyStats now FREE

2007-07-12 Thread Matt King
Hello Voipcrazy,

It's funny you should mention that - we've just released (as in today) a FREE 
version of our OrderlyStats service for call centre and queue monitoring and 
management.

OrderlyStats features realtime (synchronous/message-based) display of all 
queue, agent and caller events so you can see what's happening in your call 
centre as it happens.

The control panel feature allows you to reassign agents and penalties on the 
fly.

Our Agent Bar tool also helps agents log in and out of their queues, and enter 
Pause for wrap-up at the touch of a button, in addition to displaying realtime 
wallboard-style queue information.

Furthermore, we automatically produce a wealth of historical statistics, 
allowing you to track caller trends and analyse staffing requirements across 
your queues.

You can sign up now at http://www.orderlyq.com/freestats.html .  

It would certainly be worth your while to take a look, especially if you're 
considering spending money on QueueMetrics.

Thanks for reading,

 Matt.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote
Hello all,

A client of us, needs a queue monitoring system. In realtime he needs to now
the PRI status, the agents logged in and logged out, the number of received
calls by agent, ,etc.
I am not a call center specialist and i want to find a call center software
to offer to my client that fits his needs.
I need a monitoring solution for incomming and outgoing calls and a queue
management interface to create and/or modify queues or agents.

Any one of you could has instalesd this kind of software? Which one?
Which one could you recomend me?

Thanks in advance.

Voipcrazy.


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[asterisk-users] Connecting Asterisk to Avaya Definity over H.323

2006-08-23 Thread Matt King

Hello,

   Does anyone out there have experience or settings they can share to 
help connect Asterisk to an Avaya Definity system over H.323?


   If so we need your help!  Please email me directly.

   Many thanks,

  Matt King
  Managing Director, Orderly Software Ltd.

  
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[asterisk-users] SJPhone and Asterisk over H323

2006-08-23 Thread Matt King

Hello all,

   I'm using Asterisk h323 (default/NuPhone) with some success with 
SJPhone.  I say some success because while I'm able to receive audio 
from Asterisk, I seem unable to send audio to it...


   Any suggestions?  Anybody managed to get this to work?

   Thanks,

  Matt King
  Managing Director, Orderly Software Ltd.


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[asterisk-users] !! Got a UA, but i'm in state 1

2006-07-20 Thread Matt King
Does anybody know what these are?  Started getting them last night when 
I upgraded from 1.2.6 (Zaptel 1.2.6) to 1.2.10 (Zaptel 1.2.7).  Then my 
E1 ISDN PRIs go down...


I've had to roll back to 1.2.6 :-(

Matt.
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[asterisk-users] Weird transcoding error (SIP, local channels): sip_write: Asked to transmit frame type 64, while native formats is 256 (read/write = 64/256)

2006-07-05 Thread Matt King




Hello,


I wonder if anyone's hit these before. I'm trying to bridge two
callers using parked call. It works fine when I'm using two sip
channels directly (one hits a ParkAndAnnounce, the other hits
ParkedCall), however my application requires an intermediate local
channel. The flow is


1) Manager originates a dial out to the target Sip extension with a
local channel at the other end.


2) When the sip extension answers, the local channel is parked with
ParkAndAnnounce.


3) The second (source) sip channel is then directed to ParkedCall with
the relevant number.


This *should* connect the two callers (and seems to
be the best way of bridging two already-connected calls) BUT if the two
SIP phones are using different codecs, then I get a whole load of
messages like this:


Jul 5 20:19:46 WARNING[2917]: chan_sip.c:2561 sip_write: Asked to
transmit frame type 64, while native formats is 256 (read/write =
64/256)


We end up with the target SIP channel able to hear the source caller,
but not vice versa. I'm guessing that the local channels use frame
type 64 (SLinear), and that for some reason this is causing the barf.
We're using 1.2.9.1


Any suggestions very gratefully received.


Many thanks,


 Matt.





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[Asterisk-Users] Re: DTMF Talk off

2006-06-19 Thread Matt King
With recent versions of *, you can increase the detection time in 
zapata.conf with the toneduration variable.


The default setting is:

toneduration=100

We had the same problem and solved it by increasing this to 200. 

You can also increase the threshold volume for detection of DTMF by 
setting VPM_DEFAULT_DTMFTHRESHOLD in the relevant zaptel wctX.c and 
recompiling (though if you increase this too much you risk losing your 
ability to detect DTMF at all).


Hope this helps,

   Matt.
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[Asterisk-Users] Bridging two existing calls (MeetMe, Sip Reinvite)

2006-06-16 Thread Matt King

Hello,

I know there's a problem with Asterisk at the moment in that while it's 
easy for one caller to dial another (using the dial command), it's 
tricky to connect two calls that are already in progress.


I've been using MeetMe to achieve this (with each caller's call being 
directed to a dynamically created conference room programatically), and 
this is working - kind of - but this results in a conference instead of 
a bridged call, so


   - we can't use the normal Dial parameters for transfer etc,
   - the other caller is not disconnected automatically when one party 
hangs up, and

   - (most importantly) we can't get SIP to reinvite.

The SIP reinvite issue results in increased bandwidth costs, extra 
latency/echo and reduced call quality when compared with Dial (as the 
media path has to include Asterisk with MeetMe, but not with Dial).


Does anybody know of any other way to bridge two existing calls with 
Asterisk, that will allow SIP to reinvite?


I've already asked on the IRC channel, searched the list archives and 
had a look through the bug tracker.  I'm cross-posting this to the dev 
list too as this my last resort before making a feature request/bug post...


Hope this helps,

Matt.
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[Asterisk-Users] Re: FastAGI Connection Failure and Hangup

2006-04-25 Thread Matt King
Steve, you need the FastAGI contingency patch, part of the Asterisk 
Queues Tutorial available at


http://www.orderlyq.com/asteriskqueues.html

It's near the bottom of the page.

Anybody know why this still hasn't made it into trunk?

Matt.

Steve wrote:

Does anyone know how to make fastagi continue to the next priority if it 
can not connect to the remote AGI Server?  Right now I am just getting 
Hangup and can't find anything on the net about this.

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[Asterisk-Users] Missing 31 DTMF tones over ZAP

2006-02-24 Thread Matt King

Hello,

   I'm posting this to the list in case others run into the same issue.
  
   I've recently been connecting * to a legacy Avaya InDEX switch over 
E1 ISDN PRI here in the UK.  Everything was working OK, except that DTMF 
digits were not being recognised by * when sent by the Avaya switch to 
the * system.  Instead, the background noise of the call centre would be 
silenced while users hit the keys on their phones - echo tests and 
RecordFile produced a flatline response.


   I had at first thought that the Avaya switch may not be sending 
them, however this was working when * was not in the call path.


   With further testing, I've found out that it is in fact only the 
first 31 DTMF tones that are missing - those following are picked up 
OK.  I've got no idea why this should happen, and have kludged a fix by 
having the Avaya switch send out 31 'fake' tones before the user starts 
entering data (using Translation inside Route List).   If anyone has 
come across this before and knows of a 'proper' fix, or even what might 
be causing the issue, I'd be very grateful for the information.


   Hope this helps,

  Matt King, M.A. Oxon.
  Managing Director, Orderly Software Ltd.

  
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[Asterisk-Users] Re: Missing 31 DTMF tones over ZAP

2006-02-24 Thread Matt King

We're using a TE205P.  lsmod indicates that it's using the wct4xxp driver.

Hope this helps; I'll give it a try with disabled vpmdtmf.

   Matt.

C F Wrote:

what zap device are you using?
IIRC disalbing the vpmdtmf on a 406 or 411 might help you. I think
it's done in wctxx4p.c

On 2/24/06, Matt King [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Hello,

I'm posting this to the list in case others run into the same issue.

I've recently been connecting * to a legacy Avaya InDEX switch over
E1 ISDN PRI here in the UK.  Everything was working OK, except that DTMF
digits were not being recognised by * when sent by the Avaya switch to
the * system.  Instead, the background noise of the call centre would be
silenced while users hit the keys on their phones - echo tests and
RecordFile produced a flatline response.

I had at first thought that the Avaya switch may not be sending
them, however this was working when * was not in the call path.

With further testing, I've found out that it is in fact only the
first 31 DTMF tones that are missing - those following are picked up
OK.  I've got no idea why this should happen, and have kludged a fix by
having the Avaya switch send out 31 'fake' tones before the user starts
entering data (using Translation inside Route List).   If anyone has
come across this before and knows of a 'proper' fix, or even what might
be causing the issue, I'd be very grateful for the information.

Hope this helps,

   Matt King, M.A. Oxon.
   Managing Director, Orderly Software Ltd.


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[Asterisk-Users] Queues and On Hold

2006-02-22 Thread Matt King

Hello,

   So, I've got a bunch of agents logged in using AgentLogin.  They're 
not using VOIP phones, so I only have DTMF tones to play with.
  
   A call comes in to the agent, who wants to put the caller on hold 
(with music) while she talks to her supervisor.  When she's finished 
speaking with her boss, she wants to retrieve the caller from music on hold.


   How would you do this?  I've tried it with call parking (by pressing 
# then 700), but then the system passes through the next caller to the 
agent immediately, and it's impossible to retrieve the caller without 
hanging up, then dialling the parked extension.


   Any ideas? Thanks,

 Matt.
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[Asterisk-Users] Asterisk + Avaya DTMF problem

2006-02-06 Thread Matt King

Hello all,

   I've got Asterisk and a TE205P.  One port on the TE205P talks over 
E1 ISDN PRI to the outside world (thorugh BT).  The other port talks to 
an Avaya switch, also over E1 ISDN PRI.  All is working well, except 
that when people try to dial out from the switch through Asterisk (with 
a TE205P) there are no DTMF tones transmitted to Asterisk.  DTMF seems 
to be fine when the Avaya switch is connected directly to the PRI, however.


   Any ideas?  The lack of tones being passed to * means that people 
can't dial out at the moment...


   Many thanks,

  Matt.
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[Asterisk-Users] Re: Call simulators

2005-12-08 Thread Matt King

Hello Rob,

   Our OrderlyQ system is designed to pass (real) calls to call centre 
agents and queues at a constant rate (or at least can easily be 
configured to do this).  I can think of several ways the system could be 
'rigged' to produce the calls automatically too...


   We've also built our own call centre simulators as part of the 
development effort for OrderlyQ.


   Let me know if we can help,

  Matt King, M.A. Oxon.
  http://www.orderlyq.com - the world's most advanced queue system.
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[Asterisk-Users] Asterisk Queues Tutorial updated...

2005-12-05 Thread Matt King

Hello,

  Just a note to say the Asterisk Queues Tutorial at 
http://www.orderlyq.com/asteriskqueues.html has been updated to take 
account of changes in the 1.2.0 release.  Anybody who has used our 
tutorial to create their queues, or uses queues and is thinking of 
upgrading, will probably find this new version useful.


  Comments  feedback welcome - though message me privately please to 
avoid bugging the list


  Many thanks,

 Matt King
 Managing Director, Orderly Software Ltd.
 http://www.orderlyq.com - the world's most advanced queue system.

P.S. You can also check out our new statistics package, OrderlyStats, at 
http://www.orderlyq.com/statistics.html


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[Asterisk-Users] Zaptel Outbound Caller ID on E1 in UK

2005-11-09 Thread Matt King

Hello,

  We've got a shiny new TE411P hooked up to four E1s at a carrier (not 
BT) here in the UK.  Everything's working great, except that we can't 
seem to work out how to set caller ID on outgoing calls.  When I dial 
out to my mobile, the caller id is shown as the pilot number of the 
range we've got assigned to *, whatever we seem to do.  We really need 
to be able to set this arbitrarily, and/or to the caller ID of incoming 
calls when bridging.


  Any help would be greatly appreciated.  Here's our conf so far...

zaptel.conf:

span=1,1,0,ccs,hdb3,crc4,yellow
span=2,2,0,ccs,hdb3,crc4,yellow
span=3,3,0,ccs,hdb3,crc4,yellow
span=4,4,0,ccs,hdb3,crc4,yellow

bchan=1-15,17-31
dchan=16
bchan=32-46,48-62
dchan=47
bchan=63-77,79-93
dchan=78
bchan=94-108,110-124
dchan=109
loadzone = uk
defaultzone=uk

zapata.conf:

[channels]
context=orderlyq
switchtype=euroisdn
pridialplan=local
prilocaldialplan=local
signalling=pri_cpe
rxwink=300
usecallerid=yes
cidsignalling=v23
cidstart=polarity
hidecallerid=no
callwaiting=yes
usecallingpres=yes
sendcalleridafter=1
callwaitingcallerid=yes
threewaycalling=yes
transfer=yes
cancallforward=yes
callreturn=yes
echocancel=yes
rxgain=0.0
txgain=0.0
group=1
callgroup=1
pickupgroup=1
immediate=no
callprogress=no
callerid=asreceived
channel = 1-15,17-31

extensions.conf:
exten = 1000,1,Dial(ZAP/g1/07743898503|20)

  Thanks in advance...

 Matt King, M.A. Oxon.
 Managing Director, Orderly Software Ltd.
 01392 421 078 or 0774 38 98 503
 http://www.orderlyq.com - the world's most advanced queue system.


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[Asterisk-Users] Re: Zaptel Outbound Caller ID on E1 in UK

2005-11-09 Thread Matt King
Got it - the carrier's hardware will only pass on caller ID within the 
DID range assigned to the E1 PRI.


   Matt.
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[Asterisk-Users] Asterisk Cluster

2005-09-06 Thread Matt King

Hello,

   I'm going to need to take up to 10,000 simultaneous calls on a 
single number.  I'm going to need lots of * boxes to do it. 

   How many * boxes will I need, and how do I load balance the calls 
between them?


   Matt.
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[Asterisk-Users] Re: Asterisk Cluster

2005-09-06 Thread Matt King

Hello,

OK some more information.

We've got a client who takes very large call spike when tickets go on 
sale.  We're specing to handle 10,000 simultaneous calls.  We're hoping 
to use our VOIP provider to handle incoming calls from landlines, and to 
route the calls out to our client's call centre.  Our * boxes sit in the 
middle, coloed with the VOIP provider.


We can use SIP or IAX with the provider.  It's been suggested that SIP 
is the better choice, as it should allow the provider to route call 
streams directly through to the call centre once they've been through 
our system (more details of what we're doing at http://www.orderlyq.com).


Someone has suggested SER as a good way of doing the load balancing ( 
http://www.voip-info.org/tiki-index.php?page=SIP+Express+Router ), but I 
haven't used it before - anybody know how to get it to load balance?


Also, if we got 20,000 calls instead of the anticipated 10,000 calls, 
how would we drop the extra 10,000?  We don't want to use up more of our 
provider's lines than we can handle calls. 


Please feel free to respond privately if you like.

Many thanks,

   Matt.
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[Asterisk-Users] Re: Which AGI Development Software is fastest on Asterisk?

2005-08-18 Thread Matt King

Hello,


I'm looking to develop some custom AGI that will be MySQL intensive.  It
appears Asterisk supports many different development environments.  Which
would be best suited for Asterisk and MySQL?


   It's generally fastest to use FastAGI (over TCP/IP), rather than 
regular AGI as this means the OS isn't starting a new process for each 
call (just like it's faster to use PHP or Servlets rather than 
old-school CGI for serving web pages).  This also means you can run your 
AGI application on a different server, if you want to, so as not to 
compromise Asterisk performance.


   If you know Java, you could try OrderlyCalls at 
http://orderlycalls.sourceforge.net (disclaimer - written by me!) which 
has full FastAGI and Manager support, reusable object pooling, and can 
be run inside Tomcat to build integrated web and telephony applications, 
though there are other packages out there, including Asterisk-Java ( 
http://asterisk-java.sourceforge.net - written by Stefan Reuter).


   Hope this helps,

  Matt King, Orderly Software
  http://www.orderlyq.com - probably the most advanced queue system 
in the world!


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[Asterisk-Users] OrderlyQ

2005-08-14 Thread Matt King

Hello Jason,

   I've just come across your post to the Asterisk-Users group 
regarding OrderlyQ (from a web search - sorry it's taken so long).


You wrote:

 What experience can be shared about installing and running the 
OrderlyQ application? I have a bunch of
 queues set up and want to start adding some additional apps and this 
one looked promising but I have

 very little java experience and it doesn't seem to be running properly.

   I just thought I should point out that there is no Java experience 
necessary to run OrderlyQ, and no Java applications to install.  We run 
OrderlyQ as a managed service for you over FastAGI and Manager - all you 
need do is make some minor modifications to your Asterisk config files 
(and we'll do this for you if you like).


   Perhaps you've come across OrderlyQ through our open-source 
OrderlyCalls platform?  There is a java demo of OrderlyQ as part of that 
package, but it's not required to use OrderlyQ.


   More details about how to integrate Asterisk with the OrderlyQ 
managed service (and lots of other useful asterisk queue information) 
are at http://www.orderlyq.com/asteriskqueues.html .


   Hope this helps,

  Matt King, M.A. Oxon.
  Managing Director, Orderly Software Ltd.
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[Asterisk-Users] Re: MOH - request to schedule in the past SOLUTION and New Asterisk Queues Tutorial.

2005-07-05 Thread Matt King

Hello all,


From your system command line (not asterisk), type 'mpg123' and tell
us what version of mpg123 you're running.

If its not v0.59r or v0.59q, then get one of those installed.
(Lots of notes say v0.59r only, however I've been using v0.59q
. on RHv9 and Fedora 3 boxes with no problems.)



Andrew wrote:


FWIW, I have 0.59r (on Sarge) and I still get this from time to time
(usually when the system is temporarily busy). I don't have a timing
source, but nor do I have any particular problems... I presume the
music jitters at the time but there's usually no one using it at that
moment.


We've been able to solve the problem by replacing mpg123 with a player that plays RAW files instead.  We haven't seen the problem since.  


The raw player has the added advantage of increasing Asterisk performance, and 
it is suitable for use in commercial environments (unlike mpg123 which is not 
licensed for commercial use without the permission of the author).

Full instructions in our new and comprehensive Music On Hold and Queue
Tutorial:

http://www.orderlyq.com/asteriskqueues.html

Hope this helps,

Matt King, M.A. Oxon.
Managing Director, Orderly Software Ltd.
Author, OrderlyCalls and OrderlyQ
http://www.orderlyq.com
Tel: +44 1392 421 078

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[Asterisk-Users] Re: New JAVA application server for Asterisk - OrderlyCalls

2005-06-21 Thread Matt King

Hello Adam,

   Thank you so much for taking the time to write to me.  I can 
understand your concerns; let me see if I can address them.



Matt,

Sourceforge.net is exclusively for hosting software whose licensing
terms meet the OSI's definition of Open Source:

 http://opensource.org/docs/definition.php

Your licensing terms include the following, which is not compliant
with the OSI definition:

 Usage Restrictions

 In addition to the restrictions of the LGPL, the following
 restrictions apply: ...  OrderlyCalls may not be used to provide or
 augment call queuing without the prior written permission of Orderly
 Software.
 

I am familiar with the OSI definitiion.  I've read it again, but I can't 
work out exactly how asking for permission contravenes this definition.  
Perhaps you could clarify with a more specific reference?


Here's the relevant section from the OrderlyCalls licence file 
(available at http://orderlycalls.sourceforge.net ):

---
In addition to the restrictions of the LGPL, the following restrictions 
apply:


1)  OrderlyCalls MAY NOT be used to automate 'cold-calling'.

Orderly Software takes a strong stand against SPAM.  If you wish to use
OrderlyCalls to call people without their prior consent, you MUST write to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] explaining why you need to do this.  At our discretion
we MAY decide to issue permission in specific cases.

2)  OrderlyCalls MAY NOT be used to provide or augment call queuing without
the prior written permission of Orderly Software.

The reason for this is that Orderly Software provides an advanced queue
management system called OrderlyQ, that lets callers hang up and call back
when they reach the front of the queue.  OrderlyQ is patent-pending,
and we do NOT allow the use of OrderlyCalls to provide similar
functionality.

By adding this restriction, we are erring on the side of caution, so if you
want to use OrderlyCalls in conjunction with call queuing, but you are not
intending to emulate OrderlyQ, you MUST write to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and
explain how you intend to use OrderlyCalls. 


We anticipate that we will be very happy to give consent in most cases.
---

So my first question is, are you objecting to the first usage 
restriction regarding SPAM calls?  We feel this restriction is very 
important as we sincerely do not wish OrderlyCalls to become a nuisance 
to anyone.  Or are you objecting to the second restriction only?


The purpose of the second restriction is to ensure that OrderlyCalls is 
not used to infringe the intellectual property embodied in OrderlyQ, 
even by accident, with a view to avoiding litigation and other troubles 
*before* they can happen.  OrderlyQ is a very specific application, and 
we would only consider witholding permission in cases of clear 
conflict.  We do not wish to restrict the use of OrderlyCalls beyond 
these boundaries, and by asking people to seek permission before they 
make the investment of coding, we can co-operatively ensure and verify 
that their plans do not involve such a conflict. 

This is to the developer's advantage, as once we've issued permission, 
the developer can ensure that he/she is not exposed to litigation risk 
from us.  We feel that specifically eliminating this 'grey area' as 
early as possible in the development process is therefore to everyone's 
benefit, hence the restriction.  I really don't expect we'll be 
witholding permission very often, if ever.



While I understand your motivation and empathize with the plight of
open-source business, unfortunately you must either:

 a) remove this restriction

   - or -

 b) remove your project from sourceforge.net

Please take action soon so that this matter does not need to be
escalated to the sourceforge.net admins.
 

I'm more than happy to refer to sourceforge.net for guidance on this 
matter, and will do so myself if necessary, however I know they're very 
busy people, and I'd hate to bother them inappropriately.  I also need 
more information on the specifics of your objection before I can take 
action.


Might I suggest therefore that for the moment we continue this 
discussion in a spirit of open and friendly co-operation, with a view to 
finding a solution together, and thereby avoid adding to their workload?


I'd also like to suggest that we move this discussion to the 
OrderlyCalls mailing list, [EMAIL PROTECTED], 
as I feel this is a more appropriate place for the discussion, and I 
don't want to burden the inboxes of the subscribers to Asterisk lists 
inappropriately.  You might also choose to respond privately with your 
concerns; in any case I'd be happy to post the resolution of this issue 
more widely once we've worked out together exactly what that will be.


For the meanwhile, if you're concerned about this issue, and considering 
using OrderlyCalls with call queues, please don't be scared, and do just 
ask!


Many thanks,

Matt King, M.A. Oxon.
Managing Director, Orderly

[Asterisk-Users] Re: New JAVA application server for Asterisk - OrderlyCalls

2005-06-21 Thread Matt King

Hello Adam, Matt King [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


I am familiar with the OSI definitiion.  I've read it again, but I
can't work out exactly how asking for permission contravenes this
definition.
 


Then Adam wrote:

6. No Discrimination Against Fields of Endeavor

The license must not restrict anyone from making use of the program
in a specific field of endeavor.  For example, it may not restrict
the program from being used in a business...

 http://www.opensource.org/docs/definition.php

 - a


Well the full text of section 6 reads as follows: 




6. No Discrimination Against Fields of Endeavor

The license must not restrict anyone from making use of the program in a 
specific field of endeavor. For example, it may not restrict the program 
from being used in a business, or from being used for genetic research.


Rationale: The major intention of this clause is to prohibit license 
traps that prevent open source from being used commercially. We want 
commercial users to join our community, not feel excluded from it.




I believe that 'field of endeavour' means quite a broad spectrum of activity, 
such as 'business' or 'genetic research'.  It's certainly *not* our intent to 
discriminate in this way, and I don't think the very specific usage 
requirements in the licence file could be taken to mean that we're 
discriminating against any particular field of endeavour.

We're certainly *not* intending to prohibit commercial use of OrderlyCalls - 
indeed we have chosen the LGPL specifically to *encourage* commercial use.

We are open to suggestion on this issue, so if you've got a way forward I'd 
love to hear about it, but in the meantime I'd like to repeat my request to 
move this discussion off the Asterisk lists and onto a more appropriate forum 
(such as [EMAIL PROTECTED]), as I feel like we're bugging the readers here with 
unnecessary detail.  This will therefore be my last post to the Asterisk lists 
on this issue until a way forward has been agreed.

Respectfully yours,

Matt King, M.A. Oxon.
Managing Director, Orderly Software Ltd.
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