Re: [asterisk-users] LCR in Asterisk
On Wed, Feb 13, 2008 at 6:49 PM, Tilghman Lesher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Macros are deprecated. Gosubs are the way forward, and yes, they have local variables. Simply define them once as Set(LOCAL(foo)=bar) and foo will be gone when the innermost stack is removed (either by Return or StackPop). I was keeping up with the list traffic when I found this... Hmmm, maybe to my surpirse. Are macros deprecated in 1.4 or 1.6 ? What, if any, is the replacement for the M() option in the Dial() application ? -- exvito ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] LCR in Asterisk
On Monday 17 March 2008 21:55:10 Ex Vito wrote: On Wed, Feb 13, 2008 at 6:49 PM, Tilghman Lesher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Macros are deprecated. Gosubs are the way forward, and yes, they have local variables. Simply define them once as Set(LOCAL(foo)=bar) and foo will be gone when the innermost stack is removed (either by Return or StackPop). I was keeping up with the list traffic when I found this... Hmmm, maybe to my surpirse. Are macros deprecated in 1.4 or 1.6 ? What, if any, is the replacement for the M() option in the Dial() application ? 1.6. U(). -- Tilghman ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] LCR in Asterisk
Tilghman Lesher wrote: Macros are deprecated. Gosubs are the way forward, and yes, they have local variables. Simply define them once as Set(LOCAL(foo)=bar) and foo will be gone when the innermost stack is removed (either by Return or StackPop). Yeah, but I like macros. stamps feet. Still nice to know that the , | () nonesense is being cleaned up. ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] LCR in Asterisk
On Sunday 17 February 2008 03:41:09 Thomas Kenyon wrote: Tilghman Lesher wrote: Macros are deprecated. Gosubs are the way forward, and yes, they have local variables. Simply define them once as Set(LOCAL(foo)=bar) and foo will be gone when the innermost stack is removed (either by Return or StackPop). Yeah, but I like macros. stamps feet. Not that I would ever encourage such dialplan abuse, but Gosub will permit going far deeper, even in recursion than Macro. With Macro, you are limited from anywhere from 5 to 10 levels deep, because it exhausts the call stack, whereas Gosub will permit something like 100,000 nested calls deep. Still nice to know that the , | () nonesense is being cleaned up. Thank you. I realize this is going to be painful initially, but it's quite necessary to build even more complexity into the dialplan in the future. -- Tilghman ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] LCR in Asterisk
On Feb 13, 2008 12:33 PM, Tilghman Lesher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In the same way that a PHP programmer should not attempt write Python the way she writes PHP, I would agree with you. However, if you're willing to adapt to the ways the dialplan works, you can create dialplans which aren't obfuscated at all. Tcl and Lisp are close cousins to the dialplan in terms of how they do things. Not everybody is a Lisp programmer, and some people absolutely detest it. That doesn't make it any less of a good language. -- Tilghman Having done significant work in Tcl, and very interested in this LCR debate, can you shed light on the similarities between Tcl and the dial plan? Thx! ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] LCR in Asterisk
On Sunday 17 February 2008 10:33:18 John wrote: On Feb 13, 2008 12:33 PM, Tilghman Lesher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In the same way that a PHP programmer should not attempt write Python the way she writes PHP, I would agree with you. However, if you're willing to adapt to the ways the dialplan works, you can create dialplans which aren't obfuscated at all. Tcl and Lisp are close cousins to the dialplan in terms of how they do things. Not everybody is a Lisp programmer, and some people absolutely detest it. That doesn't make it any less of a good language. Having done significant work in Tcl, and very interested in this LCR debate, can you shed light on the similarities between Tcl and the dial plan? Thx! I'd say the most striking resemblance between the two involves the use of components, which Osterhout describes in his 1994 book on the Tcl/Tk environment. Rather than creating a singular monolithic language which is able to do everything, the dialplan relies in great part on the ability to add new components, whether they be dialplan applications or dialplan functions, to supplement various tasks. These components act in a cooperative fashion for whatever the pbx administrator needs to do. -- Tilghman ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] LCR in Asterisk
On Tuesday 12 February 2008 23:14:58 Alex Balashov wrote: Rizwan Hisham wrote: Hi all, I am planning to implement LCR routing on my already running asterisk server. Uptill now i have found out that asterisk has no support for lcr, i have to do something about it myself, for example using the AGI. Im looking for ideas here. Whats the best way to start implementing lcr in asterisk. Should i use agi and start implementing my own lcr script or is there any plugin available which can be used with asterisk. If you are interested in prebuilt solutions, you may consider TransNexus's NexOSS product (www.transnexus.com). The Open Settlement Protocol (OSP) they implemented can be used with Asterisk - they have a module. In fact, I am not sure about the commercial status of the OSP module as such; it may be possible to get it free of charge. Not sure. But OSP is an open protocol, so perhaps it's possible. Otherwise, I would think that the best way to approach this would be to make it fully outboard and divest it of Asterisk. Implement a SIP proxy that forwards to providers using LCR decisionmaking, and just have Asterisk send calls to it. OpenSER can be used for this - and indeed, there is an OSP module for it as well, if you wanted to go that route. If you're dead-set on doing it in Asterisk and don't want to do OSP, I would suggest FastAGI. Definitely don't implement the logic in the dial plan, at any cost. Uh, why not? You can do LCR quite easily in the dialplan, by using func_odbc for each of the provider lookups, then use SORT() to get the lowest cost. It's quite easy, and you do not need to resort to AGI. -- Tilghman ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] LCR in Asterisk
Tilghman Lesher wrote: Uh, why not? You can do LCR quite easily in the dialplan, by using func_odbc for each of the provider lookups, then use SORT() to get the lowest cost. It's quite easy, and you do not need to resort to AGI. You can do almost anything in the dial plan with enough spiritual commitment in about the same way that you can do just about anything you need to do with a bash script, as opposed to Perl, Python, or any toolkits or frameworks. It's not syntactically terse, balloons quickly in semantic complexity, is objectively less efficient as the dial plan *is not a programming language* (despite having variables, control structures and other things characteristic of an execution environment of such), and otherwise unnecessarily complicated. In implementing and extending the logic going forward (beyond naive lookups) in accordance with evolving requirements in the business rules, you will find that you run into the limits of the algorithmic complexity that the dial plan can provide, and that whatever the approach, it's overly obfuscated. The dial plan limits meaningful modularisation and functional decomposition that is available with outboard runtime environments. So, it's not that you couldn't - it's that you shouldn't. -- Alex Balashov Evariste Systems Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/ Tel: (+1) (678) 954-0670 Direct : (+1) (678) 954-0671 Mobile : (+1) (706) 338-8599 ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] LCR in Asterisk
On Wed, Feb 13, 2008 at 11:33:19AM -0600, Tilghman Lesher wrote: On Wednesday 13 February 2008 09:57:59 Alex Balashov wrote: Tilghman Lesher wrote: Uh, why not? You can do LCR quite easily in the dialplan, by using func_odbc for each of the provider lookups, then use SORT() to get the lowest cost. It's quite easy, and you do not need to resort to AGI. You can do almost anything in the dial plan with enough spiritual commitment in about the same way that you can do just about anything you need to do with a bash script, as opposed to Perl, Python, or any toolkits or frameworks. It's not syntactically terse, balloons quickly in semantic complexity, is objectively less efficient as the dial plan *is not a programming language* (despite having variables, control structures and other things characteristic of an execution environment of such), and otherwise unnecessarily complicated. In implementing and extending the logic going forward (beyond naive lookups) in accordance with evolving requirements in the business rules, you will find that you run into the limits of the algorithmic complexity that the dial plan can provide, and that whatever the approach, it's overly obfuscated. The dial plan limits meaningful modularisation and functional decomposition that is available with outboard runtime environments. Like any other language, you certainly can write in an obfuscated way, and the dialplan does not discourage it. That said, you certainly can write in a modularized way. I would guess that you simply aren't familiar with the dialplan enough to make those decisions, but it is quite possible and doable. So, it's not that you couldn't - it's that you shouldn't. In the same way that a PHP programmer should not attempt write Python the way she writes PHP, I would agree with you. However, if you're willing to adapt to the ways the dialplan works, you can create dialplans which aren't obfuscated at all. Tcl and Lisp are close cousins to the dialplan in terms of how they do things. Not everybody is a Lisp programmer, and some people absolutely detest it. That doesn't make it any less of a good language. Having programmed in about 8 different languages over the last 25 years, I can see both points of view. And admittedly, I haven't tried to do non-trivial things with dialplan. That said, my view of this interaction is that Tilghman has drunk the Kool-Aidtm, and that Alex's view of the situation is much closer to objective. dialplan appears to have jes' growed, and that never makes for a good language design. Ask the Python 3 team. :-) Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink [EMAIL PROTECTED] Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth Associates http://baylink.pitas.com '87 e24 St Petersburg FL USA http://photo.imageinc.us +1 727 647 1274 Those who cast the vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything. -- (Joseph Stalin) ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] LCR in Asterisk
On Wednesday 13 February 2008 09:57:59 Alex Balashov wrote: Tilghman Lesher wrote: Uh, why not? You can do LCR quite easily in the dialplan, by using func_odbc for each of the provider lookups, then use SORT() to get the lowest cost. It's quite easy, and you do not need to resort to AGI. You can do almost anything in the dial plan with enough spiritual commitment in about the same way that you can do just about anything you need to do with a bash script, as opposed to Perl, Python, or any toolkits or frameworks. It's not syntactically terse, balloons quickly in semantic complexity, is objectively less efficient as the dial plan *is not a programming language* (despite having variables, control structures and other things characteristic of an execution environment of such), and otherwise unnecessarily complicated. In implementing and extending the logic going forward (beyond naive lookups) in accordance with evolving requirements in the business rules, you will find that you run into the limits of the algorithmic complexity that the dial plan can provide, and that whatever the approach, it's overly obfuscated. The dial plan limits meaningful modularisation and functional decomposition that is available with outboard runtime environments. Like any other language, you certainly can write in an obfuscated way, and the dialplan does not discourage it. That said, you certainly can write in a modularized way. I would guess that you simply aren't familiar with the dialplan enough to make those decisions, but it is quite possible and doable. So, it's not that you couldn't - it's that you shouldn't. In the same way that a PHP programmer should not attempt write Python the way she writes PHP, I would agree with you. However, if you're willing to adapt to the ways the dialplan works, you can create dialplans which aren't obfuscated at all. Tcl and Lisp are close cousins to the dialplan in terms of how they do things. Not everybody is a Lisp programmer, and some people absolutely detest it. That doesn't make it any less of a good language. -- Tilghman ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] LCR in Asterisk
- Original Message From: Jay R. Ashworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 9:45:34 AM Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] LCR in Asterisk On Wed, Feb 13, 2008 at 11:33:19AM -0600, Tilghman Lesher wrote: On Wednesday 13 February 2008 09:57:59 Alex Balashov wrote: Tilghman Lesher wrote: Uh, why not? You can do LCR quite easily in the dialplan, by using func_odbc for each of the provider lookups, then use SORT() to get the lowest cost. It's quite easy, and you do not need to resort to AGI. You can do almost anything in the dial plan with enough spiritual commitment in about the same way that you can do just about anything you need to do with a bash script, as opposed to Perl, Python, or any toolkits or frameworks. Is that nasty little problem of no local variables in macros fixed yet? That's a pretty big pain in the ass. You have to prefix your variables with the name of the macro it's in to avoid stepping all over yourself. Doug. Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] LCR in Asterisk
Douglas Garstang wrote: - Original Message From: Jay R. Ashworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 9:45:34 AM Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] LCR in Asterisk On Wed, Feb 13, 2008 at 11:33:19AM -0600, Tilghman Lesher wrote: On Wednesday 13 February 2008 09:57:59 Alex Balashov wrote: Tilghman Lesher wrote: Uh, why not? You can do LCR quite easily in the dialplan, by using func_odbc for each of the provider lookups, then use SORT() to get the lowest cost. It's quite easy, and you do not need to resort to AGI. You can do almost anything in the dial plan with enough spiritual commitment in about the same way that you can do just about anything you need to do with a bash script, as opposed to Perl, Python, or any toolkits or frameworks. Could you fix your e-mail client please? Regards, Philipp Kempgen ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] LCR in Asterisk
On Wednesday 13 February 2008 11:45:34 Jay R. Ashworth wrote: Having programmed in about 8 different languages over the last 25 years, I can see both points of view. And admittedly, I haven't tried to do non-trivial things with dialplan. That said, my view of this interaction is that Tilghman has drunk the Kool-Aidtm, and that Alex's view of the situation is much closer to objective. Or maybe I'm just the architect of the dialplan moving forward, which is why I advocate that if you really don't need to use AGI, you don't. ;-) dialplan appears to have jes' growed, and that never makes for a good language design. Ask the Python 3 team. :-) I'm specifically working on removing misfeatures from the dialplan, to make it much easier to use and more predictable. 1.6 will be a huge improvement towards this goal. -- Tilghman ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] LCR in Asterisk
At 09:33 AM 2/13/2008, you wrote: In the same way that a PHP programmer should not attempt write Python the way she writes PHP, I would agree with you. However, if you're willing to adapt to the ways the dialplan works, you can create dialplans which aren't obfuscated at all. Tcl and Lisp are close cousins to the dialplan in terms of how they do things. Not everybody is a Lisp programmer, and some people absolutely detest it. That doesn't make it any less of a good language. Look, I've done lots of cool stuff in the dial plan and other have done stuff way beyond me, but I defy you to call the dial plan language good or well designed. It works, it gets the job done but it's always harder than it needs to be. Ira ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] LCR in Asterisk
Doug- Please fix your email client. One line per word in quoting is a little excessive. Better yet, turn off HTML. On Wednesday 13 February 2008 12:17:30 Douglas Garstang wrote: Is that nasty little problem of no local variables in macros fixed yet? That's a pretty big pain in the ass. You have to prefix your variables with the name of the macro it's in to avoid stepping all over yourself. Macros are deprecated. Gosubs are the way forward, and yes, they have local variables. Simply define them once as Set(LOCAL(foo)=bar) and foo will be gone when the innermost stack is removed (either by Return or StackPop). -- Tilghman ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] LCR in Asterisk
On Wed, Feb 13, 2008 at 12:52:42PM -0600, Tilghman Lesher wrote: On Wednesday 13 February 2008 11:45:34 Jay R. Ashworth wrote: Having programmed in about 8 different languages over the last 25 years, I can see both points of view. And admittedly, I haven't tried to do non-trivial things with dialplan. That said, my view of this interaction is that Tilghman has drunk the Kool-Aidtm, and that Alex's view of the situation is much closer to objective. Or maybe I'm just the architect of the dialplan moving forward, which is why I advocate that if you really don't need to use AGI, you don't. ;-) I'm not sure those aren't equivalent. :-) dialplan appears to have jes' growed, and that never makes for a good language design. Ask the Python 3 team. :-) I'm specifically working on removing misfeatures from the dialplan, to make it much easier to use and more predictable. 1.6 will be a huge improvement towards this goal. Well, this should be interesting. :-) Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink [EMAIL PROTECTED] Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth Associates http://baylink.pitas.com '87 e24 St Petersburg FL USA http://photo.imageinc.us +1 727 647 1274 Those who cast the vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything. -- (Joseph Stalin) ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] LCR in Asterisk
On Wed, Feb 13, 2008 at 07:49:36PM +0100, Philipp Kempgen wrote: Douglas Garstang wrote: [ ... ] do with a bash script, as opposed to Perl, Python, or any toolkits or frameworks. Could you fix your e-mail client please? I dunno; his message comes out fine here, though Mutt and lynx --dump. I grow less impressed with T-bird by the day... Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink [EMAIL PROTECTED] Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth Associates http://baylink.pitas.com '87 e24 St Petersburg FL USA http://photo.imageinc.us +1 727 647 1274 Those who cast the vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything. -- (Joseph Stalin) ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] LCR in Asterisk
Tilghman Lesher wrote: Like any other language, you certainly can write in an obfuscated way, and the dialplan does not discourage it. That said, you certainly can write in a modularized way. I would guess that you simply aren't familiar with the dialplan enough to make those decisions, but it is quite possible and doable. The dial plan certainly does lend itself to this to some degree, no argument, but not to the extent that fully developed programming / scripting languages do. -- Alex Balashov Evariste Systems Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/ Tel: (+1) (678) 954-0670 Direct : (+1) (678) 954-0671 Mobile : (+1) (706) 338-8599 ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] LCR in Asterisk
Rizwan Hisham wrote: Hi all, I am planning to implement LCR routing on my already running asterisk server. Uptill now i have found out that asterisk has no support for lcr, i have to do something about it myself, for example using the AGI. Im looking for ideas here. Whats the best way to start implementing lcr in asterisk. Should i use agi and start implementing my own lcr script or is there any plugin available which can be used with asterisk. If you are interested in prebuilt solutions, you may consider TransNexus's NexOSS product (www.transnexus.com). The Open Settlement Protocol (OSP) they implemented can be used with Asterisk - they have a module. In fact, I am not sure about the commercial status of the OSP module as such; it may be possible to get it free of charge. Not sure. But OSP is an open protocol, so perhaps it's possible. Otherwise, I would think that the best way to approach this would be to make it fully outboard and divest it of Asterisk. Implement a SIP proxy that forwards to providers using LCR decisionmaking, and just have Asterisk send calls to it. OpenSER can be used for this - and indeed, there is an OSP module for it as well, if you wanted to go that route. If you're dead-set on doing it in Asterisk and don't want to do OSP, I would suggest FastAGI. Definitely don't implement the logic in the dial plan, at any cost. -- Alex Balashov Evariste Systems Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/ Tel: (+1) (678) 954-0670 Direct : (+1) (678) 954-0671 Mobile : (+1) (706) 338-8599 ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
[asterisk-users] LCR in Asterisk
Hi all, I am planning to implement LCR routing on my already running asterisk server. Uptill now i have found out that asterisk has no support for lcr, i have to do something about it myself, for example using the AGI. Im looking for ideas here. Whats the best way to start implementing lcr in asterisk. Should i use agi and start implementing my own lcr script or is there any plugin available which can be used with asterisk. -- Best Regards Rizwan Hisham Software Engineer Axvoice Inc. www.axvoice.com ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
