Re: [Audacity-translation] Lisp formats are not C formats

[mkpoli]

POEdit is OK for it, although not helpful enough, at least it does not do
unnecessary stuff about lisp format.
2018年3月9日(金) 6:52 Yuri Chornoivan :

> четвер, 8 березня 2018 р. 23:40:27 EET Paul Licameli написано:
> > On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 3:50 PM, Yuri Chornoivan  wrote:
> > > четвер, 8 березня 2018 р. 22:30:46 EET Paul Licameli написано:
> > > > On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 3:09 PM, Thomas De Rocker <
> > >
> > > thomasderoc...@outlook.com
> > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Paul
> > > > >
> > > > > First of all: the Dutch translations are completed on Transifex! 
> > > > >
> > > > > Second: my username on Transifex is RockyTDR, and I made the
> comment.
> > > > >
> > > > > What I meant is the following. Transifex "recognizes" html and some
> > >
> > > other
> > >
> > > > > tags. It allows translators to copy e.g. "* kind
> > > > > of
> > > > > "balloon".
> > > > >
> > > > > The problem is that Transifex treats some characters, or the order
> of
> > >
> > > some
> > >
> > > > > characters (*1%F* for example) as a "balloon". Translators are
> obliged
> > >
> > > to
> > >
> > > > > use that same "balloon" in their translations. If not, it returns
> an
> > > > > error.
> > > > >
> > > > > This is what I mean (Transifex screenshot):
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > In this case the "F" of "Frequency" is recognized as a tag. This
> can
> > > > > be
> > > > > solved by putting a space between characters, like this: "1% F".
> > > > >
> > > > > I hope this clears things. If you have any questions, i'd be happy
> to
> > > > > answer them.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards
> > > >
> > > > Thanks, Thomas,
> > > >
> > > > I think Transifex is being "stupid" then about #, lisp-format and its
> > > > software needs an update.  Who should we complain to?
> > >
> > > Transifex online editor has very basic support even for C-formatted
> > > strings.
> > > It is not its main market.
> > >
> > > > Were you compelled to put the spaces in before your upload was
> accepted?
> > > > Yuri C., you too, for Ukrainian?
> > >
> > > I do not use Transifex online editor. And I did not add spaces myself.
> The
> > > catalog was translated offline with Lokalize then uploaded back with no
> > > reported problems.
> >
> > So then, there is a Transifex editor that is not smart about lisp-format,
> > but your upload of work done in another editor is not obstructed.  That
> is
> > good.
> >
> > > > If so, then maybe we should not rely on Transifex and you should
> send me
> > > > your updates either by email or by pull request at GitHub.
> >
> > So ignore that suggestion.
> >
> > > BTW, can somebody look at this PR?
> > >
> > > https://github.com/audacity/audacity/pull/261
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance for your review.
> >
> > I see you fixed doubled spaces in a few places.
> >
> > I will take that, but then make minor updates to audacity.pot to reflect
> > that.  This will make your uk.po slightly out of date, as those two
> entries
> > will become fuzzy when you merge again, and you should fix that easily of
> > course.
>
> Thanks.
>
> > I recall about 13 strings still needed translations in uk.po besides, so
> I
> > will not simply fix uk.po myself.
>
> Actually, there is a complete translation on Transifex, but it does not
> matter. It is just a transient testing translation. The real translation
> will
> be submitted to the release I hope. ;)
>
> Yuri
>
> > > Best regards,
> > > Yuri
> > >
> > > > Or I can edit the few strings myself to remove the unnecessary
> spaces.
> > > >
> > > > By the way, Thomas, I also saw your question about the meaning of
> > > > "frequency bounds."  That string is part of an effect that cooperates
> > >
> > > with
> > >
> > > > the spectral selection feature, detailed at the link below.  The user
> > >
> > > sees
> > >
> > > > a rectangle in the spectrogram, which was upper and lower bounds.
> > > >
> > > > https://manual.audacityteam.org/man/spectral_selection.html
> > > >
> > > > PRL
> > > >
> > > > > Thomas De Rocker
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > *Van:* Paul Licameli 
> > > > > *Verzonden:* donderdag 8 maart 2018 20:20
> > > > > *Aan:* audacity-translation; Thomas De Rocker
> > > > > *Onderwerp:* Re: Lisp formats are not C formats
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 1:55 PM, Paul Licameli <
> paul.licam...@gmail.com
> > > > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I got this notification from Transifex, forwarding a query from
> one of
> > > > > you, and not sure how to respond at that site, so I write to this
> > >
> > > mailing
> > >
> > > > > list:
> > > > >
> > > > > "
> > > > > Error:~%~%Frequency (~a Hz) is too high for track sample rate.~%~%~
> > >
> > > Track
> > >
> > > > > sample rate is ~a Hz~%~ Frequency must be less than ~a Hz.
> > > > >
> > > > > 1%F is recognized as placeholder - no problem for Dutch translation
> > > > > because "frequentie" (nl) starts with f like "frequency", 

Re: [Audacity-translation] Lisp formats are not C formats

[Yuri Chornoivan]

четвер, 8 березня 2018 р. 23:40:27 EET Paul Licameli написано:
> On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 3:50 PM, Yuri Chornoivan  wrote:
> > четвер, 8 березня 2018 р. 22:30:46 EET Paul Licameli написано:
> > > On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 3:09 PM, Thomas De Rocker <
> > 
> > thomasderoc...@outlook.com
> > 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > Hi Paul
> > > > 
> > > > First of all: the Dutch translations are completed on Transifex! 
> > > > 
> > > > Second: my username on Transifex is RockyTDR, and I made the comment.
> > > > 
> > > > What I meant is the following. Transifex "recognizes" html and some
> > 
> > other
> > 
> > > > tags. It allows translators to copy e.g. "* > > > of
> > > > "balloon".
> > > > 
> > > > The problem is that Transifex treats some characters, or the order of
> > 
> > some
> > 
> > > > characters (*1%F* for example) as a "balloon". Translators are obliged
> > 
> > to
> > 
> > > > use that same "balloon" in their translations. If not, it returns an
> > > > error.
> > > > 
> > > > This is what I mean (Transifex screenshot):
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > In this case the "F" of "Frequency" is recognized as a tag. This can
> > > > be
> > > > solved by putting a space between characters, like this: "1% F".
> > > > 
> > > > I hope this clears things. If you have any questions, i'd be happy to
> > > > answer them.
> > > > 
> > > > Regards
> > > 
> > > Thanks, Thomas,
> > > 
> > > I think Transifex is being "stupid" then about #, lisp-format and its
> > > software needs an update.  Who should we complain to?
> > 
> > Transifex online editor has very basic support even for C-formatted
> > strings.
> > It is not its main market.
> > 
> > > Were you compelled to put the spaces in before your upload was accepted?
> > > Yuri C., you too, for Ukrainian?
> > 
> > I do not use Transifex online editor. And I did not add spaces myself. The
> > catalog was translated offline with Lokalize then uploaded back with no
> > reported problems.
> 
> So then, there is a Transifex editor that is not smart about lisp-format,
> but your upload of work done in another editor is not obstructed.  That is
> good.
> 
> > > If so, then maybe we should not rely on Transifex and you should send me
> > > your updates either by email or by pull request at GitHub.
> 
> So ignore that suggestion.
> 
> > BTW, can somebody look at this PR?
> > 
> > https://github.com/audacity/audacity/pull/261
> > 
> > Thanks in advance for your review.
> 
> I see you fixed doubled spaces in a few places.
> 
> I will take that, but then make minor updates to audacity.pot to reflect
> that.  This will make your uk.po slightly out of date, as those two entries
> will become fuzzy when you merge again, and you should fix that easily of
> course.

Thanks.

> I recall about 13 strings still needed translations in uk.po besides, so I
> will not simply fix uk.po myself.

Actually, there is a complete translation on Transifex, but it does not 
matter. It is just a transient testing translation. The real translation will 
be submitted to the release I hope. ;)

Yuri

> > Best regards,
> > Yuri
> > 
> > > Or I can edit the few strings myself to remove the unnecessary spaces.
> > > 
> > > By the way, Thomas, I also saw your question about the meaning of
> > > "frequency bounds."  That string is part of an effect that cooperates
> > 
> > with
> > 
> > > the spectral selection feature, detailed at the link below.  The user
> > 
> > sees
> > 
> > > a rectangle in the spectrogram, which was upper and lower bounds.
> > > 
> > > https://manual.audacityteam.org/man/spectral_selection.html
> > > 
> > > PRL
> > > 
> > > > Thomas De Rocker
> > > > 
> > > > --
> > > > *Van:* Paul Licameli 
> > > > *Verzonden:* donderdag 8 maart 2018 20:20
> > > > *Aan:* audacity-translation; Thomas De Rocker
> > > > *Onderwerp:* Re: Lisp formats are not C formats
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 1:55 PM, Paul Licameli  > > > 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > I got this notification from Transifex, forwarding a query from one of
> > > > you, and not sure how to respond at that site, so I write to this
> > 
> > mailing
> > 
> > > > list:
> > > > 
> > > > "
> > > > Error:~%~%Frequency (~a Hz) is too high for track sample rate.~%~%~
> > 
> > Track
> > 
> > > > sample rate is ~a Hz~%~ Frequency must be less than ~a Hz.
> > > > 
> > > > 1%F is recognized as placeholder - no problem for Dutch translation
> > > > because "frequentie" (nl) starts with f like "frequency", but maybe
> > 
> > other
> > 
> > > > languages will have problems.
> > > > "
> > > > 
> > > > Either I misunderstand the report, or the translator does not
> > 
> > understand
> > 
> > > > that this is a Lisp-format string, not C-format.  So % does not have
> > 
> > the
> > 
> > > > usual meaning.
> > > > 
> > > > The Lisp function called format changes ~% to a newline, so
> > > > ~%Frequency
> > > > becomes just a newline and then 

Re: [Audacity-translation] Lisp formats are not C formats

[Paul Licameli]

On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 4:40 PM, Paul Licameli 
wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 3:50 PM, Yuri Chornoivan  wrote:
>
>> четвер, 8 березня 2018 р. 22:30:46 EET Paul Licameli написано:
>> > On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 3:09 PM, Thomas De Rocker <
>> thomasderoc...@outlook.com
>> > > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Hi Paul
>> > >
>> > > First of all: the Dutch translations are completed on Transifex! 
>> > >
>> > > Second: my username on Transifex is RockyTDR, and I made the comment.
>> > >
>> > > What I meant is the following. Transifex "recognizes" html and some
>> other
>> > > tags. It allows translators to copy e.g. "*> of
>> > > "balloon".
>> > >
>> > > The problem is that Transifex treats some characters, or the order of
>> some
>> > > characters (*1%F* for example) as a "balloon". Translators are
>> obliged to
>> > > use that same "balloon" in their translations. If not, it returns an
>> > > error.
>> > >
>> > > This is what I mean (Transifex screenshot):
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > In this case the "F" of "Frequency" is recognized as a tag. This can
>> be
>> > > solved by putting a space between characters, like this: "1% F".
>> > >
>> > > I hope this clears things. If you have any questions, i'd be happy to
>> > > answer them.
>> > >
>> > > Regards
>> >
>> > Thanks, Thomas,
>> >
>> > I think Transifex is being "stupid" then about #, lisp-format and its
>> > software needs an update.  Who should we complain to?
>>
>> Transifex online editor has very basic support even for C-formatted
>> strings.
>> It is not its main market.
>>
>> >
>> > Were you compelled to put the spaces in before your upload was accepted?
>> > Yuri C., you too, for Ukrainian?
>>
>> I do not use Transifex online editor. And I did not add spaces myself. The
>> catalog was translated offline with Lokalize then uploaded back with no
>> reported problems.
>>
>
> So then, there is a Transifex editor that is not smart about lisp-format,
> but your upload of work done in another editor is not obstructed.  That is
> good.
>
>
>>
>> > If so, then maybe we should not rely on Transifex and you should send me
>> > your updates either by email or by pull request at GitHub.
>>
>
> So ignore that suggestion.
>
>
>>
>> BTW, can somebody look at this PR?
>>
>> https://github.com/audacity/audacity/pull/261
>>
>> Thanks in advance for your review.
>>
>
> I see you fixed doubled spaces in a few places.
>
> I will take that, but then make minor updates to audacity.pot to reflect
> that.  This will make your uk.po slightly out of date, as those two entries
> will become fuzzy when you merge again, and you should fix that easily of
> course.
>
> I recall about 13 strings still needed translations in uk.po besides, so I
> will not simply fix uk.po myself.
>
> PRL
>

I updated audacity.pot for those changes in those two Lisp strings, but
also took many updates for C++ strings.

So, nl.po and uk.po are no longer 100% up-to-date with that.  Shall I wait
for your updates?

Again, at this point we are interested mostly just in testing the
translations of Nyquist effects, and having one or a few locales that are
complete for Lisp strings.  This is far from the final audacity.pot for
this version.

PRL



>
>
>
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Yuri
>>
>> > Or I can edit the few strings myself to remove the unnecessary spaces.
>> >
>> > By the way, Thomas, I also saw your question about the meaning of
>> > "frequency bounds."  That string is part of an effect that cooperates
>> with
>> > the spectral selection feature, detailed at the link below.  The user
>> sees
>> > a rectangle in the spectrogram, which was upper and lower bounds.
>> >
>> > https://manual.audacityteam.org/man/spectral_selection.html
>> >
>> > PRL
>> >
>> > > Thomas De Rocker
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > *Van:* Paul Licameli 
>> > > *Verzonden:* donderdag 8 maart 2018 20:20
>> > > *Aan:* audacity-translation; Thomas De Rocker
>> > > *Onderwerp:* Re: Lisp formats are not C formats
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 1:55 PM, Paul Licameli <
>> paul.licam...@gmail.com>
>> > > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > I got this notification from Transifex, forwarding a query from one of
>> > > you, and not sure how to respond at that site, so I write to this
>> mailing
>> > > list:
>> > >
>> > > "
>> > > Error:~%~%Frequency (~a Hz) is too high for track sample rate.~%~%~
>> Track
>> > > sample rate is ~a Hz~%~ Frequency must be less than ~a Hz.
>> > >
>> > > 1%F is recognized as placeholder - no problem for Dutch translation
>> > > because "frequentie" (nl) starts with f like "frequency", but maybe
>> other
>> > > languages will have problems.
>> > > "
>> > >
>> > > Either I misunderstand the report, or the translator does not
>> understand
>> > > that this is a Lisp-format string, not C-format.  So % does not have
>> the
>> > > usual meaning.
>> > >
>> > > The Lisp function called format changes ~% to a newline, so
>> ~%Frequency
>> > > 

Re: [Audacity-translation] Lisp formats are not C formats

[Paul Licameli]

On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 3:50 PM, Yuri Chornoivan  wrote:

> четвер, 8 березня 2018 р. 22:30:46 EET Paul Licameli написано:
> > On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 3:09 PM, Thomas De Rocker <
> thomasderoc...@outlook.com
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Paul
> > >
> > > First of all: the Dutch translations are completed on Transifex! 
> > >
> > > Second: my username on Transifex is RockyTDR, and I made the comment.
> > >
> > > What I meant is the following. Transifex "recognizes" html and some
> other
> > > tags. It allows translators to copy e.g. "* > > "balloon".
> > >
> > > The problem is that Transifex treats some characters, or the order of
> some
> > > characters (*1%F* for example) as a "balloon". Translators are obliged
> to
> > > use that same "balloon" in their translations. If not, it returns an
> > > error.
> > >
> > > This is what I mean (Transifex screenshot):
> > >
> > >
> > > In this case the "F" of "Frequency" is recognized as a tag. This can be
> > > solved by putting a space between characters, like this: "1% F".
> > >
> > > I hope this clears things. If you have any questions, i'd be happy to
> > > answer them.
> > >
> > > Regards
> >
> > Thanks, Thomas,
> >
> > I think Transifex is being "stupid" then about #, lisp-format and its
> > software needs an update.  Who should we complain to?
>
> Transifex online editor has very basic support even for C-formatted
> strings.
> It is not its main market.
>
> >
> > Were you compelled to put the spaces in before your upload was accepted?
> > Yuri C., you too, for Ukrainian?
>
> I do not use Transifex online editor. And I did not add spaces myself. The
> catalog was translated offline with Lokalize then uploaded back with no
> reported problems.
>

So then, there is a Transifex editor that is not smart about lisp-format,
but your upload of work done in another editor is not obstructed.  That is
good.


>
> > If so, then maybe we should not rely on Transifex and you should send me
> > your updates either by email or by pull request at GitHub.
>

So ignore that suggestion.


>
> BTW, can somebody look at this PR?
>
> https://github.com/audacity/audacity/pull/261
>
> Thanks in advance for your review.
>

I see you fixed doubled spaces in a few places.

I will take that, but then make minor updates to audacity.pot to reflect
that.  This will make your uk.po slightly out of date, as those two entries
will become fuzzy when you merge again, and you should fix that easily of
course.

I recall about 13 strings still needed translations in uk.po besides, so I
will not simply fix uk.po myself.

PRL



>
> Best regards,
> Yuri
>
> > Or I can edit the few strings myself to remove the unnecessary spaces.
> >
> > By the way, Thomas, I also saw your question about the meaning of
> > "frequency bounds."  That string is part of an effect that cooperates
> with
> > the spectral selection feature, detailed at the link below.  The user
> sees
> > a rectangle in the spectrogram, which was upper and lower bounds.
> >
> > https://manual.audacityteam.org/man/spectral_selection.html
> >
> > PRL
> >
> > > Thomas De Rocker
> > >
> > > --
> > > *Van:* Paul Licameli 
> > > *Verzonden:* donderdag 8 maart 2018 20:20
> > > *Aan:* audacity-translation; Thomas De Rocker
> > > *Onderwerp:* Re: Lisp formats are not C formats
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 1:55 PM, Paul Licameli  >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > I got this notification from Transifex, forwarding a query from one of
> > > you, and not sure how to respond at that site, so I write to this
> mailing
> > > list:
> > >
> > > "
> > > Error:~%~%Frequency (~a Hz) is too high for track sample rate.~%~%~
> Track
> > > sample rate is ~a Hz~%~ Frequency must be less than ~a Hz.
> > >
> > > 1%F is recognized as placeholder - no problem for Dutch translation
> > > because "frequentie" (nl) starts with f like "frequency", but maybe
> other
> > > languages will have problems.
> > > "
> > >
> > > Either I misunderstand the report, or the translator does not
> understand
> > > that this is a Lisp-format string, not C-format.  So % does not have
> the
> > > usual meaning.
> > >
> > > The Lisp function called format changes ~% to a newline, so ~%Frequency
> > > becomes just a newline and then the word -- no relation to the C
> format %f
> > > sequence.
> > >
> > > Also ~~ becomes ~, and ~ followed by newline is just a break in the
> string
> > > to make the format easier to read, and is simply deleted, with
> following
> > > whitespace characters, by format.
> > >
> > > The ~a sequence is the only placeholder.  Unlike with C, there is no
> need
> > > in Lisp to distinguish placeholders for strings and for numbers with
> > > different sequences.
> > >
> > > Or is it the .po file editor that is misunderstanding the input and
> making
> > > some incorrect warnings about this string?  Perhaps then there is a
> better
> > > editing program to use instead!

Re: [Audacity-translation] Lisp formats are not C formats

[Yuri Chornoivan]

четвер, 8 березня 2018 р. 22:30:46 EET Paul Licameli написано:
> On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 3:09 PM, Thomas De Rocker  > wrote:
> > 
> > Hi Paul
> > 
> > First of all: the Dutch translations are completed on Transifex! 
> > 
> > Second: my username on Transifex is RockyTDR, and I made the comment.
> > 
> > What I meant is the following. Transifex "recognizes" html and some other
> > tags. It allows translators to copy e.g. "* > "balloon".
> > 
> > The problem is that Transifex treats some characters, or the order of some
> > characters (*1%F* for example) as a "balloon". Translators are obliged to
> > use that same "balloon" in their translations. If not, it returns an
> > error.
> > 
> > This is what I mean (Transifex screenshot):
> > 
> > 
> > In this case the "F" of "Frequency" is recognized as a tag. This can be
> > solved by putting a space between characters, like this: "1% F".
> > 
> > I hope this clears things. If you have any questions, i'd be happy to
> > answer them.
> > 
> > Regards
> 
> Thanks, Thomas,
> 
> I think Transifex is being "stupid" then about #, lisp-format and its
> software needs an update.  Who should we complain to?

Transifex online editor has very basic support even for C-formatted strings. 
It is not its main market.

> 
> Were you compelled to put the spaces in before your upload was accepted?
> Yuri C., you too, for Ukrainian?

I do not use Transifex online editor. And I did not add spaces myself. The 
catalog was translated offline with Lokalize then uploaded back with no 
reported problems.

> If so, then maybe we should not rely on Transifex and you should send me
> your updates either by email or by pull request at GitHub.

BTW, can somebody look at this PR?

https://github.com/audacity/audacity/pull/261

Thanks in advance for your review.

Best regards,
Yuri

> Or I can edit the few strings myself to remove the unnecessary spaces.
> 
> By the way, Thomas, I also saw your question about the meaning of
> "frequency bounds."  That string is part of an effect that cooperates with
> the spectral selection feature, detailed at the link below.  The user sees
> a rectangle in the spectrogram, which was upper and lower bounds.
> 
> https://manual.audacityteam.org/man/spectral_selection.html
> 
> PRL
> 
> > Thomas De Rocker
> > 
> > --
> > *Van:* Paul Licameli 
> > *Verzonden:* donderdag 8 maart 2018 20:20
> > *Aan:* audacity-translation; Thomas De Rocker
> > *Onderwerp:* Re: Lisp formats are not C formats
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 1:55 PM, Paul Licameli 
> > wrote:
> > 
> > I got this notification from Transifex, forwarding a query from one of
> > you, and not sure how to respond at that site, so I write to this mailing
> > list:
> > 
> > "
> > Error:~%~%Frequency (~a Hz) is too high for track sample rate.~%~%~ Track
> > sample rate is ~a Hz~%~ Frequency must be less than ~a Hz.
> > 
> > 1%F is recognized as placeholder - no problem for Dutch translation
> > because "frequentie" (nl) starts with f like "frequency", but maybe other
> > languages will have problems.
> > "
> > 
> > Either I misunderstand the report, or the translator does not understand
> > that this is a Lisp-format string, not C-format.  So % does not have the
> > usual meaning.
> > 
> > The Lisp function called format changes ~% to a newline, so ~%Frequency
> > becomes just a newline and then the word -- no relation to the C format %f
> > sequence.
> > 
> > Also ~~ becomes ~, and ~ followed by newline is just a break in the string
> > to make the format easier to read, and is simply deleted, with following
> > whitespace characters, by format.
> > 
> > The ~a sequence is the only placeholder.  Unlike with C, there is no need
> > in Lisp to distinguish placeholders for strings and for numbers with
> > different sequences.
> > 
> > Or is it the .po file editor that is misunderstanding the input and making
> > some incorrect warnings about this string?  Perhaps then there is a better
> > editing program to use instead!
> > 
> > 
> > You should also know:  there are special generated comments in the .pot
> > file, that are supposed to identify format strings:
> > 
> > #, c-format
> > #, lisp-format
> > 
> > These comments are used in the build to check that the number of
> > placeholders in the msgid equals that in the msgstr.
> > 
> > Perhaps a good .po file editor is sensitive to these lines?
> > 
> > I checked this example, and one other that the translator mentioned, and
> > indeed the audacity.pot has a #, lisp-format comment, not #, c-format, so
> > I
> > hope your editor is good enough not to misinterpret the message as
> > c-format
> > when it is clearly marked otherwise.
> > 
> > PRL
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > PRL



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Re: [Audacity-translation] Lisp formats are not C formats

[Paul Licameli]

On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 3:09 PM, Thomas De Rocker  wrote:

> Hi Paul
>
> First of all: the Dutch translations are completed on Transifex! 
>
> Second: my username on Transifex is RockyTDR, and I made the comment.
>
> What I meant is the following. Transifex "recognizes" html and some other
> tags. It allows translators to copy e.g. "* "balloon".
>
> The problem is that Transifex treats some characters, or the order of some
> characters (*1%F* for example) as a "balloon". Translators are obliged to
> use that same "balloon" in their translations. If not, it returns an error.
>
> This is what I mean (Transifex screenshot):
>
>
> In this case the "F" of "Frequency" is recognized as a tag. This can be
> solved by putting a space between characters, like this: "1% F".
>
> I hope this clears things. If you have any questions, i'd be happy to
> answer them.
>
> Regards
>

Thanks, Thomas,

I think Transifex is being "stupid" then about #, lisp-format and its
software needs an update.  Who should we complain to?

Were you compelled to put the spaces in before your upload was accepted?
Yuri C., you too, for Ukrainian?

If so, then maybe we should not rely on Transifex and you should send me
your updates either by email or by pull request at GitHub.

Or I can edit the few strings myself to remove the unnecessary spaces.

By the way, Thomas, I also saw your question about the meaning of
"frequency bounds."  That string is part of an effect that cooperates with
the spectral selection feature, detailed at the link below.  The user sees
a rectangle in the spectrogram, which was upper and lower bounds.

https://manual.audacityteam.org/man/spectral_selection.html

PRL



>
> Thomas De Rocker
>
> --
> *Van:* Paul Licameli 
> *Verzonden:* donderdag 8 maart 2018 20:20
> *Aan:* audacity-translation; Thomas De Rocker
> *Onderwerp:* Re: Lisp formats are not C formats
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 1:55 PM, Paul Licameli 
> wrote:
>
> I got this notification from Transifex, forwarding a query from one of
> you, and not sure how to respond at that site, so I write to this mailing
> list:
>
> "
> Error:~%~%Frequency (~a Hz) is too high for track sample rate.~%~%~ Track
> sample rate is ~a Hz~%~ Frequency must be less than ~a Hz.
>
> 1%F is recognized as placeholder - no problem for Dutch translation
> because "frequentie" (nl) starts with f like "frequency", but maybe other
> languages will have problems.
> "
>
> Either I misunderstand the report, or the translator does not understand
> that this is a Lisp-format string, not C-format.  So % does not have the
> usual meaning.
>
> The Lisp function called format changes ~% to a newline, so ~%Frequency
> becomes just a newline and then the word -- no relation to the C format %f
> sequence.
>
> Also ~~ becomes ~, and ~ followed by newline is just a break in the string
> to make the format easier to read, and is simply deleted, with following
> whitespace characters, by format.
>
> The ~a sequence is the only placeholder.  Unlike with C, there is no need
> in Lisp to distinguish placeholders for strings and for numbers with
> different sequences.
>
> Or is it the .po file editor that is misunderstanding the input and making
> some incorrect warnings about this string?  Perhaps then there is a better
> editing program to use instead!
>
>
> You should also know:  there are special generated comments in the .pot
> file, that are supposed to identify format strings:
>
> #, c-format
> #, lisp-format
>
> These comments are used in the build to check that the number of
> placeholders in the msgid equals that in the msgstr.
>
> Perhaps a good .po file editor is sensitive to these lines?
>
> I checked this example, and one other that the translator mentioned, and
> indeed the audacity.pot has a #, lisp-format comment, not #, c-format, so I
> hope your editor is good enough not to misinterpret the message as c-format
> when it is clearly marked otherwise.
>
> PRL
>
>
>
>
> PRL
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Audacity-translation] Lisp formats are not C formats

[Thomas De Rocker]

Hi Paul

First of all: the Dutch translations are completed on Transifex! 

Second: my username on Transifex is RockyTDR, and I made the comment.

What I meant is the following. Transifex "recognizes" html and some other tags. 
It allows translators to copy e.g. "
Verzonden: donderdag 8 maart 2018 20:20
Aan: audacity-translation; Thomas De Rocker
Onderwerp: Re: Lisp formats are not C formats



On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 1:55 PM, Paul Licameli 
> wrote:
I got this notification from Transifex, forwarding a query from one of you, and 
not sure how to respond at that site, so I write to this mailing list:

"
Error:~%~%Frequency (~a Hz) is too high for track sample rate.~%~%~ Track 
sample rate is ~a Hz~%~ Frequency must be less than ~a Hz.

1%F is recognized as placeholder - no problem for Dutch translation because 
"frequentie" (nl) starts with f like "frequency", but maybe other languages 
will have problems.
"

Either I misunderstand the report, or the translator does not understand that 
this is a Lisp-format string, not C-format.  So % does not have the usual 
meaning.

The Lisp function called format changes ~% to a newline, so ~%Frequency becomes 
just a newline and then the word -- no relation to the C format %f sequence.

Also ~~ becomes ~, and ~ followed by newline is just a break in the string to 
make the format easier to read, and is simply deleted, with following 
whitespace characters, by format.

The ~a sequence is the only placeholder.  Unlike with C, there is no need in 
Lisp to distinguish placeholders for strings and for numbers with different 
sequences.

Or is it the .po file editor that is misunderstanding the input and making some 
incorrect warnings about this string?  Perhaps then there is a better editing 
program to use instead!


You should also know:  there are special generated comments in the .pot file, 
that are supposed to identify format strings:

#, c-format
#, lisp-format

These comments are used in the build to check that the number of placeholders 
in the msgid equals that in the msgstr.

Perhaps a good .po file editor is sensitive to these lines?

I checked this example, and one other that the translator mentioned, and indeed 
the audacity.pot has a #, lisp-format comment, not #, c-format, so I hope your 
editor is good enough not to misinterpret the message as c-format when it is 
clearly marked otherwise.

PRL



PRL



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