Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner...
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner... @Mirage, I'm ready for it to go nowhere. When you learn to settle for expecting the worst you can be pleasantly surprised when you get the best. Do I believe any of these projects are worth investing time, effort and other resources into? Absolutely! Will I be let down if I end up failing in the sense that none of them ever get produced? Nah, because I know I'm shooting for tall orders where these are concerned, given a few things.1. I've played many games in my 32 years of being alive.2. I've read twice that many books.3. I've watched almost as many movies.4. Trying to fit all of my ideas alongside the ideas of others into one, two or even three games is still an unrealistic idea.5. It is my belief that in order for something to become any kind of good reality, it has to start off as a spectacularly fantastic dream or vision at the very least before you can knock it down to the level of realistic.For everyone else, I say all of the above to say this; even if I were to spell out exactly what I want in this post, on this topic, anywhere else on the forum or even on the net, what I would end up with is obviously going to be wy less than what I write out in print. In theory, everything sounds beautiful; in practice it doesn't always work out that way. Am I tentatively testing the waters? You bet. Am I being exceptionally guarded about precisely what I have in mind? Guilty. In the end, this is going to be a matter of mutual trust between everyone who collectively decides to work with myself, Nightshade and others. The devs/programmers have to trust we have direction and purpose, that we plan to stick to this and we aren't just going to pull the plug on it when things get difficult or we hit stretches where it seems like we're getting nowhere, that we're going to give credit where credit is do, and that we're going to deliver on every promise, financial or otherwise that we make. We, in turn, have to trust that they know what they're doing, that they know how to do it, that they won't bail in the middle of troublesome times, and that they won't make demands higher than are necessary or take advantage of our lack of knowledge when it comes to their fields of expertise. From my perspective I feel like we have more to lose, but that's biased and I know that because I'm not a dev. A dev/programmer reading this could likely say the same. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/613709/#p613709 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner...
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner... Wishing you the best of luck.Big projects are an adventure, and I hope this one brings you much joy, mystery, and fun. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/613607/#p613607 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner...
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner... To answer @35, as a matter of fact, I do. Given the life game takes place after the shooter, and its story line has been written in thorough detail to include important moments in history that help to bring it together, the shooter's story line inevitably had to be written first. In fact, given I've already stated that the shooter is like the prequel, as it were, I may as well tell you that it's last mission is for all intents and purposes, a cliffhanger of sorts which leads into the future events that'll all have to take place in the life project.As far as funding said life project, we have an incentives system which I think many if not all players will be satisfied with as it allows for everyone to give as much or as little as they desire to the game but still get something out of it. While it is free to play because moos, muds and many online games of this caliber generally should be and usually are, we all know that free does not pay for itself. That obviously places a lot of responsibility on the coders to do a good job on the game, and as you say, noone will justifiably work for nothing. As such, our promise right off the bat to anyone who works with us and which I do not feel any trouble in disclosing is that, on top of whatever we give to devs/programmers out of our own pockets which is definitely going to happen, we will also not be taking any proffit the game generates save where necessary for server upgrades/maintenance/that sort of thing and distributing it to coders and the like. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/613515/#p613515 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner...
2021-02-07
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : GrannyCheeseWheel via Audiogames-reflector
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner... OK, but do you have the story written up for the shooter? If not, it'll be hard to work on the life game if it is a continuation of the shooter's story line. So you have two potential MUDs and one game that would not really translate well into a MUD. This could work, but, if one of the first two doesn't do well, the other one in the link probably won't either.You want to pay people, which is good; however, this is generally not something that is done for MUDs. You see paid staff on MUDs that are modeled after a business, Iron Realms being a good example of a company who specializes in creating worlds with actual employees serving as the administration staff, coders, builders, etc. You do not generally see paid staff on games that are free to play. The distinction I'm talking about is that while you could say that IRE MUDs are technically free to play, they are structured in such a way that people will drop money on them. Some people dropping many thousands of dollars, in fact.Without a clear revenue source, how can people be sure you can actually pay them what you say you can. Programmers are generally not the sort of people to work on a faith basis, hoping you'll come through for them. This has very much a head in the clouds feel to it.Maybe I'm wrong, and I'm reading too much into the lack of details, and making something where nothing exists. My supposition rests on the premise that a lack of details means a lack of direction, which isn't always going to be true. I understand the need to keep things on lockdown until these projects start to take off. In fact, I hope I'm wrong, because these projects do sound interesting to me based on what details were given. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/613491/#p613491 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner...
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner... MOO is fine for the project they are currently working on. A mud is something you can pretty much do in any way you want, starting from using MOO and ending at literally writing everything in C++ yourself. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/613488/#p613488 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner...
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner... Not skilled here, but it doesn't seem like MOO would be a good fit for either of these URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/613487/#p613487 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner...
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner... True story. I actually have 3 projects in mind. I'm going to vaguely outline them all because I know that if I can get one of them off the ground I can probably get the other two working more successfully.1. An FPS shooter in the spirit of Perfect Dark.2. A futuristic life game that serves as a sequel and follows up where the first one leaves off and is driven by its players.3. An ongoing fighting game that combines the medieval, mythical and futuristic.By now you can probably tell our focus is on project 2. As Nightshade stated earlier, our team currently consists of three individuals; one of us is sighted. We felt this was essential given the scope of our projects, the fact that we want them to be as accurate as possible and that we do want at least one of these projects if not all of them to be accessible to all gamers. This was an interesting eye-opener to me specifically since, I had never considered that when blind people make games they are, at least, from the perspective of the sighted player, inaccessible, either because of the lack of graphics, or because of a lack of textual organization in the case of text-based games, rendering MOOs and the like as sprawling walls of information which is hard to quickly process as it is unclear what is important and what is not.Anyway, I've said a bit more, and while I know that's not going to satisfy everyone, I do hope this does allow for the possibility of being taken seriously and showcases that we're not just blowing smoke, as it were. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/613485/#p613485 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner...
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner... Cool, thanks for that update. It's useful, in that it clarifies what sort of skillset you're looking for. Looking for a developer is a bit like looking for a writer. It's important to clarify at least what type of writing, or development, you're looking for in order to get useful responses. I sent an email, but will withdraw my interest. Seems like a cool project, and I hope it succeeds, but I haven't done MUD coding in a long while, and that's not where my interests lie.Good luck! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/613386/#p613386 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner...
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner... Please be a little patient. Nocturnus is a much better writer than I am and thus he is putting something together to explain what's up, and also to invite some people to have a chat about development. We do have 4 children, and I just had a major eye surgery, so we're not trying to be slow on purpose, I promise.I'll fill in what I can, and yes I realize its still vague.Sadly, that's because we don't want to get peoples hopes up, or dash any hopes either. We want to do this right, and fully expect the development stage to take quite some time before we can even open for Alpha testing.We want to make a mud, yes. I won't say what type at this time, that will be discussed with the developers, but we do not want everything to be public until closer to Alpha. The reason for this is simple.Does anyone remember Stellaris? I do, I looked forward to it, and then because of a complicated set of circumstances beyond anyones control, it didn't happen.Now, what I can say is this.Our team already consists of 3. We already have a timeline, and plans.At this point we just need to hire the programmer/programmers, and get the thing coded.Once that happens we'll have a closed Alpha in which we'll invite some of you to play and find bugs.After the closed Alpha, we'll have a public Beta, and then we'll open everything.Understand, though this could take anywhere from I'd say, 6 months to 2 years.There's a reason, though we want this game to succeed, and we want it done right.The 3 of us have played many MOOs/Muds and know what we want and don't want.If you like or liked any features of Star Conquest, Miriani, what was to be Stellaris, Cosmic Rage, Alter Aeon, etc. you'll more than likely find something once we're ready to share with you.I can say this, this MOO will be similar, yet different to anything you've ever played, and the reason is simple. There's things we've all liked about games we've played, and things we haven't, so all of our ideas will be put together.The biggest thing that will set us apart, I think is once we open, things will be very simple to begin. The players will drive the story. There will be coded systems, but the players will have to drive the story to unlock said systems.So now that I've probably frustrated everybody with a bunch of vague nothingness, Nocturnus will be following up with emails and posts sometime either today or tomorrow.We have a story, we have a team of 3, which will hopefully become 4 to 7, depending on who agrees to help. We have plans for the mechanics, a donator program, events, and much, much more.Once we've got the coder/coders figured out, which will hopefully happen in the next couple days, and once we have things set up a bit more, we will be putting a call out for builders as well. As mentioned in the first post, these are compensated positions. The nature of the compensation will be discussed privately, but I think we've came up with a system that will fairly work for those who want to be involved for the duration.If you decide to work with us, our hope is that you'll stay with us, not just for development, but even once the game opens. We invision that this game will continue to expand, and develop even once we're completely open. It'll be a group effert from the staff and players.I hope I haven't made any of you hate me for all my vagueness, but our hope is to create a place where our dreams can become reality, and where everyone can have fun.Lastly, if you sent an email and did not get a response, please send another one? Our intent was to respond to everyone, but I'm wondering if some got lost.Again the email is ajmdream...@gmail.com URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/613368/#p613368 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner...
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner... Please be a little patient. Nocturnus is a much better writer than I am and thus he is putting something together to explain what's up, and also to invite some people to have a chat about development. We do have 4 children, and I just had a major eye surgery, so we're not trying to be slow on purpose, I promise.I'll fill in what I can, and yes I realize its still vague.Sadly, that's because we don't want to get peoples hopes up, or dash any hopes either. We want to do this right, and fully expect the development stage to take quite some time before we can even open for Alpha testing.We want to make a mud, yes. I won't say what type at this time, that will be discussed with the developers, but we do not want everything to be public until closer to Alpha. The reason for this is simple.Does anyone remember Stellaris? I do, I looked forward to it, and then because of a complicated set of circumstances beyond anyones control, it didn't happen.Now, what I can say is this.Our team already consists of 3. We already have a timeline, and plans.At this point we just need to hire the programmer/programmers, and get the thing coded.Once that happens we'll have a closed Alpha in which we'll invite some of you to play and find bugs.After the closed Alpha, we'll have a public Beta, and then we'll open everything.Understand, though this could take anywhere from I'd say, 6 months to 2 years.There's a reason, though we want this game to succeed, and we want it done right.The 3 of us have played many MOOs/Muds and know what we want and don't want.If you like or liked any features of Star Conquest, Miriani, what was to be Stellaris, Cosmic Rage, Alter Aeon, etc. you'll more than likely find something once we're ready to share with you.I can say this, this MOO will be similar, yet different to anything you've ever played, and the reason is simple. There's things we've all liked about games we've played, and things we haven't, so all of our ideas will be put together.The biggest thing that will set us apart, I think is once we open, things will be very simple to begin. The players will drive the story. There will be coded systems, but the players will have to drive the story to unlock said systems.So now that I've probably frustrated everybody with a bunch of vague nothingness, Nocturnus will be following up with emails and posts sometime either today or tomorrow.We have a story, we have a team of 3, which will hopefully become 4 to 7, depending on who agrees to help. We have plans for the mechanics, a donator program, events, and much, much more.Once we've got the coder/coders figured out, which will hopefully happen in the next couple days, and once we have things set up a bit more, we will be putting a call out for builders as well. As mentioned in the first post, these are compensated positions. The nature of the compensation will be discussed privately, but I think we've came up with a system that will fairly work for those who want to be involved for the duration.If you decide to work with us, our hope is that you'll stay with us, not just for development, but even once the game opens. We invision that this game will continue to expand, and develop even once we're completely open. It'll be a group effert from the staff and players.I hope I haven't made any of you hate me for all my vagueness, but our hope is to create a place where our dreams can become reality, and where everyone can have fun. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/613368/#p613368 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner...
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner... I mean it's a tough situation because you don't want to get people's hopes up because this community doesn't have the best reputation when it comes to patience, so I do understand the premise for the vaguery. Still, I sent them an email and also got nothing, and that's off the forum, I think they could have at least said something in the emails. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/613351/#p613351 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner...
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner... I mean it's a tough situation because you don't want to get people's hopes up because this community doesn't have the best reputation when it comes to patience, so I do understand the premice for the vaguery. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/613351/#p613351 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner...
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner... Yeah, and for some reason everyone in audiogames.net land who asks for devs does the same thing--no public details until a bunch of people are like "you're asking for devs and haven't said anything". URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/613331/#p613331 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner...
2021-02-06
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : GrannyCheeseWheel via Audiogames-reflector
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner... I do agree there, this closed off approach isn't helping anyone. I get not wanting to spoil things or leak secrets, but it's going to be hard to find people when they have no clue what they're going to be doing. Not only that, but to find people with the passion to work on this is going to be almost impossible because they don't even know what the basic premise is. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/613322/#p613322 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner...
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner... @24 That's fine, but neither is a circular saw. As such, it doesn't make sense to pontificate on why that is the case until we get a little more information on this project. Is it a MUD? a more traditional multi-player game? I get not wanting to spill a lot of proprietary details, but the absolute lack of anything substantive makes it hard to seriously engage about it. Software development is a broad field. It doesn't seem fair to ask for so much developer engagement without at least indicating which skillsets are needed. Now we at least know MOO is up for consideration, but that *still* doesn't tell us much since folks have done some crazy non-MUD things with MOO.Disclosure: I sent an email about this a while back, and aside from a handful of questions I received, I don't know any more about it than we know here. I get that folks are busy, but I don't think there's any benefit to at least not saying what you're doing generally so those of us who can potentially pull this off know if it's in our skillsets. We're busy too--at least some of us. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/613319/#p613319 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner...
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner... The real problem with Moo is that the lack of version control means that you have to code directly in prod or copy code across by hand and/or with error-prone processes.If it's a mud Moo is a good fit. If it's anything else, Moo is a disaster waiting to happen. Except that as usual it's the typical dichotomy of devs who know Moo vs. devs who have jobs, kind of, so maybe Moo is the best for whatever this is, I dunno. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/613299/#p613299 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner...
2021-02-06
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : GrannyCheeseWheel via Audiogames-reflector
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner... Nevertheless, he's right about MOO not being good for the things he said it's not good for. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/613296/#p613296 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner...
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner... There's way too little public information on this project to warrant speculation on what is and isn't a good fit for it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/613283/#p613283 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner...
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner... I really don't know what game you're making, so I don't know if moo would be the optimal language for it. The most concerning limitations of Moo and related plans are:1. low popularity = lack of external libaries: other languages that are more popular have more developers working on external libraries such as physics, string hashing, encryption, multithreading, machine learning, etc. Depending on what you want to make, a moo programmer might have to code or port in that functionality by hand, which could take a lot of time that could otherwise be spent on programming the actual game mechanics.2. Slowness of moo code: Moo code is fairly slow because the moo server has to compile the code each time it runs. Compare this to an already compiled program in c or c++, which doesn't have this overhead. This is probably not something worth concerning yourself about because there is a dearth of blind low level programmers available anyway, and an even smaller number of them have enough free time because they are already employed. Python, Java and BGT aren't low level languages, because they run in an interpreter. Neither is _javascript_, which uses the browser or Electron as its interpreter. I mention it here because if you want to add functionality tot he moo server, you are going to need to know c to do it.3. external client: the game server can be coded in moo, but the external client will still need to be coded in some other language; moo is only a server language. Mud clients such as Mushclient connect to the server and send and receive information to and from the moo server. RS games also runs on moo, and the RS games client provides a front-end interface which handles the sending and receiving of data and presents it in a user friendly form. Any language that supports socket connections should work for this.4. imprecise timing: because of the way that moo works, its timing functions are notoriously imprecise, at least from what I have experienced coding on ChatMUD. Since the moo server isn't multithreaded, all the various code that everyone runs has to wait its turn to execute. Even though a piece of code might take just a few ms to execute, multiply this by 20 or 40 or 100 and you could have a delay of 300 ms before a line of your code actually runs in some extreme circumstances. If your game is played in realtime, I would strongly recommend against using moo. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/613249/#p613249 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner...
2021-02-05
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : GrannyCheeseWheel via Audiogames-reflector
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner... Stunt is critical for the modern MOO IMHO. Toaststunt because it's being worked on. You get a bunch of stuff, including 64 bit ints, the map, the waif datatype, a bunch of stuff that migrated from the database to server builtins, argon 2 password hashing, and probably more I'm not thinking of. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/613186/#p613186 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner...
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner... I do know MOO, and have had experience both as a programmer on social MOOs and as a wizard. I don't consider myself an absolute expert on all possible aspects of the language, but I consider myself to be pretty good at it. Note: I've had only very limited experience as a programmer on Stunt, and none as a wizard. I know most concepts are the same, but there are some new features and changes. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/613182/#p613182 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner...
2021-02-05
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : GrannyCheeseWheel via Audiogames-reflector
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner... I do know MOO, but there are people who would run circles around me coding wise. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/613151/#p613151 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner...
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner... I wanted everyone to know this project is still in the works. A lot has happened personally in our lives in the last month including surgery, which is why its been slow.If your still interested, and you either know MOO or are willing to learn/work with it, send us another Email. We'll also be reaching out to some of you who already emailed pretty soon too. We're not saying MOO is the only way to make this happen, but it is something we are familiar with so its a starting point. If you know a better way to achieve a similar result, we're open to that as well. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/613134/#p613134 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner...
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner... @Granny, post 16, a precise and accurate summation of what I'm looking forin a lead dev. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/603133/#p603133 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner...
2020-12-30
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : GrannyCheeseWheel via Audiogames-reflector
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner... @12 Simply put, a lead programmer would be able to manage the other programmers, leaving the project leads to manage the entire project as a whole. Also, the lead programmer should not be a total yes man to the higher ups. They should be allowed to present their ideas, or suggest alternatives that might work better. When the project leads present a design to the programmers. The lead programmer would be a unifying voice. Not only that, but they would be able to squash bad design practices which when put to code, could cause things to be dragged out immensely. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/603124/#p603124 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner...
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner... Addressing a few things here... I hope no one is offended or put off, and that this helps ease some concerns. Believe me, even here, though this is hardly the place I wish to be discussing every aspect of the project we have in mind, I am doing my best to listen to all of your suggestions and advice and none of it will be overlooked.first, the fact is that, while we are eager to stretch out a benevolent hand to one and all who feel they can do the job, we're not looking for just anyone, nor should anyone at all be looking to jump on this opportunity. to clarify, this is equally open to everyone. That does not mean everyone is getting in. When I stated above that the people involved in this project should be in it for the longrun, I meant it. We're not going to get this done overnight. this is a matter we're taking seriously because of all the letdown this community has experienced. We want to make a change, even if it takes us a while to make it.ON that note, we also know what kind of burnout comes to people who work on projects for awhile. Things happen. Relationships sour. Productivity doesn't come as fluidly. Motivation, for whatever reason, good or bad, is lost. The project stalemates, and then those who grew to love it from the outside, IE, gamers playing the game rather than developing it, are validly upset, while the devs are left feeling like they've been taken for granted. We want to minimize this, which is why, again, I stated above that this is as much a matter of us figuring out if you're the right fit for us as much as it is a matter of knowing if we're going to be right for you. It is a situation that needs to be carefully balanced. This isn't personal; it's not a popularity contest or some other means by which we begin to play favorites with members of this wonderful community. I want you to believe that, when Nightshade and I say it's real, it's real.And right now, we're taking this moment to tell you, it's real. We have children. We have responsibilities beyond that. In all humility and with all do respect, I must kindly but firmly point out that we don't feel we can afford to needlessly or wrecklessly spend time, effort, finances, material or anything else we own and or that has been entrusted to us, and if any of you end up working with us, that will include you. We would feel absolutely disgusted with ourselves if your tallents, your abilities, your knowhow, your advice and or anything else you contribute were to end up as memories of no significance.Second, I've made no secret of the fact that I'm not a developer. That having been said, I've been fortunate in my life to have worked alongside a few to some degree or another who have patiently shown me what I needed to know to get things done along the way and or help me understand the challenges they themselves faced when working on something. I am aware that programming languages are not created equall, even if they possess similarities. Solving problems with one can create problems in another. Basics may look the same, but underneath the languages are fundamentally different. Some are relied on heavily for web development while others are used for making apps designed for specific opperating systems. Some languages are functional; some are procedural. There are general purpose languages and domain-specific languages. It is believed that higher level languages increase the overall workflo and productivity of those who use them compared to those who don't. I'm not here to argue for or against this point... I'm here to tell you that I understand that all of them work together in the end to give us what we have, and that I expect them to keep doing so thanks to programmers and developers with more time to investigate and learn from them than I have invested into them myself. I used to say that I couldn't code myself out of a 10 if my life depended on it. The fact is, while there are certain variables at play, I know that I haven't tried hard enough and that, if life keeps going the way it has been I'm not likely to do so. I respect and admire those who have and those who will.Moving on, I think that, over the years, I have, and I hope I have done so humbly, made no secret that I possess a fair amount of knowledge over a fair amount of subjects. This allows me to work really well in certain areas, and not all that well in others. Even in music, where I make and have made my home for the past 30 years or so I have stretched myself in far too many directions to call myself master of any instrument, genre or anything else related to the subject. I love keys above all else, but don't spend enough time on them because guitars, drums, violins, cellos, acordions, saxophones, trumpets, flutes, etc. Sometimes I just want to listen to others make music and be entertained myself.The point, however, is that it is my knowing that sometimes I can
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner...
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner... 11 believe sound design is not requried in this case because nocturnus is a sound designer himself lol URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/603019/#p603019 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner...
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner... but audiogames.net is not a business freelancer site. You can't and shouldn't apply the same expectations.We barely get enough games with solo devs, and most team projects in the past 5 years besides somehow crazy party has gotten major backlash.I'm just hoping because this is Nocturnus, it is an exception. This guy is amazing and he's one of the most respected people on this forum. He certainly has one of the best reputation. I would hate for it to go down for him to lower his own confident or hope if this project doesn't go well. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/603006/#p603006 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner...
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner... but audiogames.net is not a business freelancer site. You can't and shouldn't apply the same expectations.We bareally get enough games with solo devs, and most team projects in the past 5 years besides somehow crazy party has gotten major backlash.I'm just hoping because this is Nocturnus, it is an expection. This guy is amazing and he's one of the most respected people on this forum. Certainly has one of the best reputation. I would hate for it to go down for him to lower his own confident or hope if this project doesn't go well. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/603006/#p603006 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner...
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner... Isn't that usually how it goes in business at least? Project leaders tell the programmers what they want done, and the programmers do it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/603002/#p603002 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner...
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner... I tried to send an email regarding sound design but it bounced back. I copied and pasted so there's no error on my end. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/602997/#p602997 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner...
2020-12-29
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : GrannyCheeseWheel via Audiogames-reflector
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner... Well, non-programmers leading programmers will not end well. It'll be like trying to herd cats. SO you really need a programmer who is trustworthy who would be a liaison between the other programmers and the team leadership to guide that process. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/602988/#p602988 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner...
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner... Hi,I also agree with 2. I think even if you don’t want to give away any specific details of the game, just a few basic bits of general information will probably generate you more interest in the project. Even just some basic general information such as which platform you want to develop the game for, which genre of game will it be, i.e. a Mud, an RPG, an MMO, first person shooter etc, or maybe it’s a game engine. I think with information like that it may potentially create more interest for you, but it may also help streamline the process for both you and the future developer by ensuring you end up speaking with people that are more likely to be relevant to your wants and end goal, with programmers you speak with then being more likely to be a better fit for your project, As some developers may prefer for example working on say mobile games, or others windows or Mac games, others may prefer working on engines over games etc. I could of course be totally wrong, but that’s my 2 cents on the topic. Still will be interesting to see what comes of this in the long run as it sounds like you’ve been thinking about this for ages and the lack of information about the project makes me think you have a unique idea, so wish you all the best with your project and hope you find a good fit with the programmer you bring onto your team.Paul Lemm URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/602979/#p602979 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner...
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner... True, when planning projects in larger scale you usually line out the scale and functionalities of a project before deciding about which stack you want to use when developing it. Then again, it would be necessary to know some skills your programmer needs. Should it be multiplayer or not, so would networking skills be a requirement? Cross-platform, maybe even mobile-only? Some people might not have the time to get at least intermediate knowledge in all of this, if necessary. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/602975/#p602975 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner...
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner... Ethin, if neither Nocturnus or nightshade know much by way of which programing language is better over another for their particular situation, such a decision may well be better left to those actually doing the programming, though of course this should be discussed with the team at large before any actual coding begins. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/602971/#p602971 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner...
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner... I agree with 2. Though the programming language may seem like a detail left for later, its an absolutely crucial design decision that cannot be delayed. Your applicants for lead coder will need to be proficient in said language, but your applicant should (not) hold such a privilege. You and Nightshade are the project leads. Therefore, you, as project leads, must make critical decisions like that. If this is a contractual obligation I can understand the hesitation, however this does not appear to be such an arrangement. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/602964/#p602964 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner...
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner... I agree with 2. Though the programming language may seem like a detail left for later, its an absolutely crucial design decision that cannot be delayed. Your applicants for lead coder will need to be proficient in said language, but your applicant should (not) be the deciding factor. You and Nightshade are the project leads. Therefore, you, as project leads, must make critical decisions like that. If this is a contractual obligation I can understand the hesitation, however this does not apear tobe such an arrangement. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/602964/#p602964 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner...
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner... we are doomed... URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/602917/#p602917 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner...
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner... I'm sorry if the nature of the original message feels rather vague and enigmatic. The fact is that the game we have in mind aims to tackle various things at once. As such, we feel it should be up to the developers to make their suggestions, if and when we have come to terms together. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/602912/#p602912 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner...
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner... I thought this was a fortune cookie at first. Darn. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/602910/#p602910 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner...
Re: An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner... I understand that you don't want to go into many details, but I feel like you'll get more bites if you at least say what languages we should be experienced in. If it hasn't been started at all yet and the language is negotiable, a basic descriptor of the game type would be useful. E.G. if it should be a mud, MOO might be a good starting point, just as an example that I know you will understand. There are many ways to solve any problem if the project hasn't already begun (IE MOO is not the only way to create a mud) but I feel like different people like to work on different types of games, and some of them might not apply without knowing some of that basic information. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/602892/#p602892 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner...
An Opportunity May Be Just Around The Corner... Just a quick heads up for anyone who's interested; Nightshade and yours truly have chosen to embark upon a monumental undertaking and need at least one willing and experienced developer. this is game related. As this is a rather large project and we understand that your time spent upon it needs to be justified, we can assure you right here and now that, should you become part of our team you will receive financial compensation for your work which will be further discussed, should you choose to take this offer. We don't wish to disclose too much here, but we will outline a few requirements you should consider before contacting us.1. You must be willing to follow instructions. Lead coder does not make you leader of the project. Suggestions and ideas will be welcome, and it is acceptible to argue reasonably and rationally as no one person can obviously know everything, and we promise for our part to be open and sensible to whatever you have to say.2. You must be willing to work with others. As stated above, this will be a rather huge project. We have been hashing and rehashing this one amongst ourselves for quite some time now, but feel that this will work best only if we can assemble a team of confident individuals who will willingly play their parts, seeking and accepting input from the team as a whole rather than plunging ahead on their own. Ego is not the issue; controling it is.3. You must have a passion for games. This is game related. We are gamers. We've played many and we feel there should be more. We want to make things happen, one step at a time.4. You must be in it for the longrun. As stated above, we will be providing financial compensation and stability. You must be easy to reach by a method of your choosing. We understand that situations arise, that life outside of gaming must come first, but we feel that repeatedly Disappearing for days at a time without explanation or notice is not acceptible.5. Finally, we simply ask that you are willing to partake in a meeting and answer a few questions before you embark upon this adventure with us. This is both a matter of whether you're the right fit for us and if we have the right job for you. There is a huge difference between being able to do something and being able to do it gladly, diligently and with humble but passionate dedication, all things which we value immensely. No, this does not mean we're asking for people with particular qualifications; anyone who feels they can meet up to the requirements we have outlined in this post can contact us and we promise to look into you. Experience does not always come in the form of degrees and certifications, and we do not believe that everyone holding a paper qualifying them in any field is always the best pick.If this sounds like something you might be interested in checking out, contact myself or Nightshade via PM or by emailing ajmdream...@gmail.com. We look forward to hearing from you and making a happy new year full of great memories for gamers together! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/602887/#p602887 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
