Re: Learning Game Menus On Xbox
Re: Learning Game Menus On Xbox Wow, just looked at Xcloud (or a description of it, at least) over at https://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2018/1 … he-center. It sounds like an amazing project. They've got 10MbPS for now, but damn! URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/post/404866/#p404866 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Learning Game Menus On Xbox
Re: Learning Game Menus On Xbox Xcloud? Never heard of that. Then again, the last time I streamed my Xbox was about a year ago, and since Christmas I've noticed a speed increase. I haven't tried it, yet. Guess its time for me to go look at Xcloud... heh. And about the bandwidth thing, if your local area network is (actually) local, your right, its not affected (bandwidth/speed isn't). As this stack overflow question put it:The short answer is that no it should not because packets sent from your computer to a server on the same local network should never leave the local network assuming the network is sensibly configured.However, the short answer makes another assumption about your network, which is that your local network is actually local. Many organisations now outsource services to the cloud and use various technologies to tunnel data packets across network boundaries (e.g. over the public Internet) while making it all look like the server has a local IP address.Alternatively, the server could be in your network but at another location, such as a remote data centre or another office, which would similarly require packets to tunnel across the public network (Internet).The upshot is that large file you're transferring to a file server on your network could actually be chewing up Internet bandwidth. The only way to know for sure is to ask someone who understands your network topology and knows for sure where the server is both physically and logically.Of course, that question refers to file transfers (it doesn't say whether their using FTP/sFTP or something else like WebDAV). But the concept applies to anything else. I would think that all residential networks are actually LANs, but you never know these days. The cloud is such an invasive beast sometimes... URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/post/404863/#p404863 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Learning Game Menus On Xbox
Re: Learning Game Menus On Xbox Xcloud? Never heard of that. Then again, the last time I streamed my Xbox was about a year ago, and since Christmas I've noticed a speed increase. I haven't tried it, yet. Guess its time for me to go look at Xcloud... heh. And about the bandwidth thing, if your local area network is (actually) local, your right, its not affected (bandwidth/speed isn't). As this stack overflow question put it:The short answer is that no it should not because packets sent from your computer to a server on the same local network should never leave the local network assuming the network is sensibly configured.However, the short answer makes another assumption about your network, which is that your local network is actually local. Many organisations now outsource services to the cloud and use various technologies to tunnel data packets across network boundaries (e.g. over the public Internet) while making it all look like the server has a local IP address.Alternatively, the server could be in your network but at another location, such as a remote data centre or another office, which would similarly require packets to tunnel across the public network (Internet).The upshot is that large file you're transferring to a file server on your network could actually be chewing up Internet bandwidth. The only way to know for sure is to ask someone who understands your network topology and knows for sure where the server is both physically and logically. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/post/404863/#p404863 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Learning Game Menus On Xbox
2019-01-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ianhamilton_ via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Learning Game Menus On Xbox Bandwidth (and speed) plays a part when doing anything on the internet, whether its on your LAN or not.Your LAN is not part of the internet, the clue is in the name - local area network. Your stream quality can be affected by what you do on the internet as the data you're pulling down from the internet is subsequently being sent around your LAN. Therefore watching Netflix in 4K can kill your stream. But the app only streams across your LAN and does not go via the internet. Xbox gameplay will not stream over the internet until Xcloud arrives in 2020. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/post/404855/#p404855 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Learning Game Menus On Xbox
2019-01-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ianhamilton_ via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Learning Game Menus On Xbox Bandwidth (and speed) plays a part when doing anything on the internet, whether its on your LAN or not.Your LAN is not part of the internet, the clue is in the name - local area network. Your stream quality can be affected by what you do on the internet as the data you're pulling down from the internet is subsequently being sent around your LAN. But the app only streams across your LAN and does not go via the internet. Xbox gameplay will not stream over the internet until Xcloud arrives in 2020. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/post/404855/#p404855 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Learning Game Menus On Xbox
2019-01-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ianhamilton_ via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Learning Game Menus On Xbox Bandwidth (and speed) plays a part when doing anything on the internet, whether its on your LAN or not.Your LAN is not part of the internet, the clue is in the name - local area network. The app streams on your LAN and does not go via the internet. Xbox gameplay will not stream over the internet until Xcloud arrives in 2020. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/post/404855/#p404855 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Learning Game Menus On Xbox
Re: Learning Game Menus On Xbox @ianhamilton_, yes, Bandwidth (and the speed of your network, by extension) does play a factor when streaming your Xbox. Bandwidth (and speed) plays a part when doing anything on the internet, whether its on your LAN or not. If it didn't play some kind of role, then when I streamed my Xbox at home it wouldn't end up lagging so badly that it lagged the stream connection out of existence, and prevented me from reconnecting for about 25 seconds thereafter. Good analogy on OCR though. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/post/404853/#p404853 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Learning Game Menus On Xbox
2019-01-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ianhamilton_ via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Learning Game Menus On Xbox Ethin wrote:I don't believe one is. Streaming the Xbox to your computer requires a lot of bandwidth, so that most likely won't work in all situations. Try menu memorization. That works for me.The app works across your local network, bandwidth is never a factor. There is a slight lag, but for menu OCR this is not a factor. When OCR doesn't work the thing that's blocking it is UI design; e.g. small fiddly fonts, over the top of low contrast complex or animated backgrounds.If that's hard to visualise, think of it in terms of a word being embossed into surface, and trying to recognise what the letters are by feeling it. That's pretty much identical what the OCR is trying to do, trying to figure out where the outlines are and what letters they seem most similar to. Now picture you're trying to do the same, trying to read the words by feeling your way around the edges of the embossed letters, but with the letters being small and ornate and different shapes to what you expect them to be - that's the impact of small fiddly fonts. Now picture trying to do it when the embossing is shallow, not extending very far from the surface. That's the impact of low contrast.Now picture trying to do it when the surface the letters are embossed on is itself bumpy and textured. That's the impact of being over the top of a busy background, i.e. an image behind the text. Now picture trying to do it when the surface is not only bumpy and textured, but those bumps and textures are constantly moving and changing. That's the impact of having the text over animated or video background.Now picture trying to do it when two or more of the above things are combined...Hopefully that helps to explain why OCR has limits. The above things are problematic for other reasons too, for example if you have an attention related condition it can be hard to focus on the text when there's animation or video behind it grabbing your attention, if you have low vision it can be hard to see low contrast text, and if you're dyslexic you might find it difficult to read complex non-standard fonts, or have a hard time reading text that has its outlines messed with by imagery being behind it. So UI design can often be problematic for accessibility in general, but those problems aren't going away any time soon unfortunately.And there are other limits to OCR, for example if a dev replaces some words with icons (not an uncommon practice, and one that's actually helpful for accessibility for some groups of people) then that icon is a black hole to the OCR too.But at least some degree of text to speech for some areas of some games' UI is coming soon. Once that door has been opened I hope it will spread... Ideally lots of companies having to spend time on implementing the same thing over and over will create demand for standardised middleware solutions, which would in turn increase the amount of provision, especially if implemented at engine level.Also AFAIK there are two new Xbox systems coming, but not until 2020. Personally I wouldn't bother getting the X if you're blind. the main benefit the X has is higher fidelity visuals, it still plays all the same games as the S and the S is vastly cheaper. You can pick up a used S for very cheap now. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/post/404813/#p404813 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Learning Game Menus On Xbox
2019-01-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ianhamilton_ via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Learning Game Menus On Xbox Ethin wrote:I don't believe one is. Streaming the Xbox to your computer requires a lot of bandwidth, so that most likely won't work in all situations. Try menu memorization. That works for me.The app works across your local network, bandwidth is never a factor. There is a slight lag, but for menu OCR this is not a factor. When OCR doesn't work the thing that's blocking it is UI design; e.g. small fiddly fonts, over the top of low contrast complex or animated backgrounds.If that's hard to visualise, think of it in terms of a word being embossed into surface, and trying to recognise what the letters are by feeling it. That's pretty much identical what the OCR is trying to do, trying to figure out where the outlines are and what letters they seem most similar to. Now picture you're trying to do the same, trying to read the words by feeling your way around the edges of the embossed letters, but with the letters being small and ornate and different shapes to what you expect them to be - that's the impact of small fiddly fonts. Now picture trying to do it when the embossing is shallow, not extending very far from the surface. That's the impact of low contrast.Now picture trying to do it when the surface the letters are embossed on is itself bumpy and textured. That's the impact of being over the top of a busy background, i.e. an image behind the text. Now picture trying to do it when the surface is not only bumpy and textured, but those bumps and textures are constantly moving and changing. That's the impact of having the text over animated or video background.Now picture trying to do it when two or more of the above things are combined...Hopefully that helps to explain why OCR has limits. The above things are problematic for other reasons too, for example if you have an attention related condition it can be hard to focus on the text when there's animation of video behind it grabbing your attention, if you have low vision it can be hard to see low contrast text, and if you're dyslexic you might find it difficult to read complex non-standard fonts, or have a hard time reading text that has its outlines messed with by imagery being behind it. So UI design can often be problematic for accessibility in general, but those problems aren't going away any time soon unfortunately.And there are other limits to OCR, for example if a dev replaces some words with icons (not an uncommon practice, and one that's actually helpful for accessibility for some groups of people) then that icon is a black hole to the OCR too.But at least some degree of text to speech for some areas of some games' UI is coming soon. Once that door has been opened I hope it will spread... Ideally lots of companies having to spend time on implementing the same thing over and over will create demand for standardised middleware solutions, which would in turn increase the amount of provision, especially if implemented at engine level.Also AFAIK there are two new Xbox systems coming, but not until 2020. Personally I wouldn't bother getting the X if you're blind. the main benefit the X has is higher fidelity visuals, it still plays all the same games as the S and the S is vastly cheaper. You can pick up a used S for very cheap now. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/post/404813/#p404813 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Learning Game Menus On Xbox
2019-01-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ianhamilton_ via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Learning Game Menus On Xbox Ethin wrote:I don't believe one is. Streaming the Xbox to your computer requires a lot of bandwidth, so that most likely won't work in all situations. Try menu memorization. That works for me.The app works across your local network, bandwidth is never a factor. There is a slight lag, but for menu OCR this is not a factor. When OCR doesn't work the thing that's blocking it is UI design; e.g. small fiddly fonts, over the top of low contrast complex or animated backgrounds.If that's hard to visualise, think of it in terms of a word being embossed into surface, and trying to recognise what the letters are by feeling it. That's pretty much identical what the OCR is trying to do, trying to figure out where the outlines are and what letters they seem most similar to. Now picture you're trying to do the same, trying to read the words by feeling your way around the edges of the embossed letters, but with the letters being small and ornate and different shapes to what you expect them to be - that's the impact of small fiddly fonts. Now picture trying to do it when the embossing is shallow, not extending very far from the surface. That's the impact of low contrast.Now picture trying to do it when the surface the letters are embossed on is itself bumpy and textured. That's the impact of being over the top of a busy background, i.e. an image behind the text. Now picture trying to do it when the surface is not only bumpy and textured, but those bumps and textures are constantly moving and changing. That's the impact of having the text over animated or video background.Now picture trying to do it when two or more of the above things are combined...Hopefully that helps to explain why OCR has limits. The above things are problematic for other reasons too, for example if you have an attention related condition it can be hard to focus on the text when there's animation of video behind it grabbing your attention, if you have low vision it can be hard to see low contrast text, and if you're dyslexic you might find it difficult to read complex non-standard fonts, or have a hard time reading text that has its outlines messed with by imagery being behind it. So UI design can often be problematic for accessibility in general, but those problems aren't going away any time soon unfortunately.But at least some degree of text to speech for some areas of some games' UI is coming soon. Once that door has been opened I hope it will spread... Ideally lots of companies having to spend time on implementing the same thing over and over will create demand for standardised middleware solutions, which would in turn increase the amount of provision, especially if implemented at engine level.Also AFAIK there are two new Xbox systems coming, but not until 2020. Personally I wouldn't bother getting the X if you're blind. the main benefit the X has is higher fidelity visuals, it still plays all the same games as the S and the S is vastly cheaper. You can pick up a used S for very cheap now. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/post/404813/#p404813 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Learning Game Menus On Xbox
2019-01-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ianhamilton_ via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Learning Game Menus On Xbox Ethin wrote:I don't believe one is. Streaming the Xbox to your computer requires a lot of bandwidth, so that most likely won't work in all situations. Try menu memorization. That works for me.The app works across your local network, bandwidth is never a factor. There is a slight lag, but for menu OCR this is not a factor. When OCR doesn't work the thing that's blocking it is UI design; e.g. small fiddly fonts, over the top of low contrast complex or animated backgrounds.If that's hard to visualise, think of it in terms of a word being embossed into surface, and trying to recognise what the letters are by feeling it. That's pretty much identical what the OCR is trying to do, trying to figure out where the outlines are and what letters they seem most similar to. Now picture you're trying to do the same, trying to read the words by feeling your way around the edges of the embossed letters, but with the letters being small and ornate and different shapes to what you expect them to be - that's the impact of small fiddly fonts. Now picture trying to do it when the embossing is shallow, not extending very far from the surface. That's the impact of low contrast.Now picture trying to do it when the surface the letters are embossed on is itself bumpy and textured. That's the impact of being over the top of a busy background, i.e. an image behind the text. Now picture trying to do it when the surface is not only bumpy and textured, but those bumps and textures are constantly moving and changing. That's the impact of having the text over animated or video background.Now picture trying to do it when two or more of the above things are combined...Hopefully that helps to explain why OCR has limits. The above things are problematic for other reasons too, for example if you have an attention related condition it can be hard to focus on the text when there's animation of video behind it grabbing your attention, if you have low vision it can be hard to see low contrast text, and if you're dyslexic you might find it difficult to read complex non-standard fonts, or have a hard time reading text that has its outlines messed with by imagery being behind it. So UI design can often be problematic for accessibility in general, but those problems aren't going away any time soon unfortunately.But at least some degree of text to speech for some areas of some games' UI is coming soon. Once that door has been opened I hope it will spread... Ideally lots of companies having to spend time on implementing the same thing over and over will create demand for standardised middleware solutions, which would in turn increase the amount of provision, especially if implemented at engine level.Also AFAIK there are two new Xbox systems coming, but not until 2020. Personally I wouldn't bother getting the X, the main benefit the X has is higher fidelity visuals, it still plays all the same games as the S and the S is vastly cheaper. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/post/404813/#p404813 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Learning Game Menus On Xbox
2019-01-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ianhamilton_ via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Learning Game Menus On Xbox Ethin wrote:I don't believe one is. Streaming the Xbox to your computer requires a lot of bandwidth, so that most likely won't work in all situations. Try menu memorization. That works for me.The app works across your local network, bandwidth is never a factor. There is a slight lag, but for menu OCR this is not a factor. When OCR doesn't work the thing that's blocking it is UI design; e.g. small fiddly fonts, over the top of low contrast complex or animated backgrounds.If that's hard to visualise, think of it in terms of a word being embossed into surface, and trying to recognise what the letters are by feeling it. That's pretty much identical what the OCR is trying to do, trying to figure out where the outlines are and what letters they seem most similar to. Now picture you're trying to do the same, trying to read the words by feeling your way around the edges of the embossed letters, but with the letters being small and ornate and different shapes to what you expect them to be - that's the impact of small fiddly fonts. Now picture trying to do it when the embossing is shallow, not extending very far from the surface. That's the impact of low contrast.Now picture trying to do it when the surface the letters are embossed on is itself bumpy and textured. That's the impact of being over the top of a busy background, i.e. an image behind the text. Now picture trying to do it when the surface is not only bumpy and textured, but those bumps and textures are constantly moving and changing. That's the impact of having the text over animated or video background.Now picture trying to do it when two or more of the above things are combined...Hopefully that helps to explain why OCR has limits. The above things are problematic for other reasons too, for example if you have an attention related condition it can be hard to focus on the text when there's animation of video behind it grabbing your attention, if you have low vision it can be hard to see low contrast text, and if you're dyslexic you might find it difficult to read complex non-standard fonts, or have a hard time reading text that has its outlines messed with by imagery being behind it. So UI design can often be problematic for accessibility in general, but those problems aren't going away any time soon unfortunately.But at least some degree of text to speech for some areas of some games' UI is coming soon. Once that door has been opened I hope it will spread... Ideally lots of companies having to spend time on implementing the same thing over and over will create demand for standardised middleware solutions, which would in turn increase the amount of provision, especially if implemented at engine level.Also AFAIK there are two new systems coming, but not until 2020. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/post/404813/#p404813 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Learning Game Menus On Xbox
2019-01-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ianhamilton_ via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Learning Game Menus On Xbox Ethin wrote:I don't believe one is. Streaming the Xbox to your computer requires a lot of bandwidth, so that most likely won't work in all situations. Try menu memorization. That works for me.The app works across your local network, bandwidth is never a factor. There is a slight lag, but for menu OCR this is not a factor. When OCR doesn't work the thing that's blocking it is UI design; e.g. small fiddly fonts, over the top of low contrast complex or animated backgrounds.If that's hard to visualise, think of it in terms of a word being embossed into surface, and trying to recognise what the letters are by feeling it. That's pretty much identical what the OCR is trying to do, trying to figure out where the outlines are and what letters they seem most similar to. Now picture you're trying to do the same, trying to read the words by feeling your way around the edges of the embossed letters, but with the letters being small and ornate and different shapes to what you expect them to be - that's the impact of small fiddly fonts. Now picture trying to do it when the embossing is shallow, not extending very far from the surface. That's the impact of low contrast.Now picture trying to do it when the surface the letters are embossed on is itself bumpy and textured. That's the impact of being over the top of a busy background, i.e. an image behind the text. Now picture trying to do it when the surface is not only bumpy and textured, but those bumps and textures are constantly moving and changing. That's the impact of having the text over animated or video background.Now picture trying to do it when two or more of the above things are combined...Hopefully that helps to explain why OCR has limits. The above things are problematic for other reasons too, for example if you have an attention related condition it can be hard to focus on the text when there's animation of video behind it grabbing your attention, if you have low vision it can be hard to see low contrast text, and if you're dyslexic you might find it difficult to read complex non-standard fonts, or have a hard time reading text that has its outlines messed with by imagery being behind it. So UI design can often be problematic for accessibility in general, but those problems aren't going away any time soon unfortunately.But at least some degree of text to speech for some areas of some games' UI is coming soon. Once that door has been opened I hope it will spread... Ideally lots of companies having to spend time on implementing the same thing over and over will create demand for standardised middleware solutions, which would in turn increase the amount of provision, especially if implemented at engine level. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/post/404813/#p404813 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Learning Game Menus On Xbox
2019-01-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ianhamilton_ via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Learning Game Menus On Xbox Ethin wrote:I don't believe one is. Streaming the Xbox to your computer requires a lot of bandwidth, so that most likely won't work in all situations. Try menu memorization. That works for me.The app works across your local network, bandwidth is never a factor. There is a slight lag, but for menu OCR this is not a factor. When OCR doesn't work the thing that's blocking it is UI design; e.g. small fiddly fonts, over the top of low contrast complex or animated backgrounds.If that's hard to visualise, think of it in terms of a word being embossed into surface, and trying to recognise what the letters are by feeling it. That's pretty much identical what the OCR is trying to do, trying to figure out where the outlines are and what letters they seem most similar to. Now picture you're trying to do the same, trying to read the words by feeling your way around the edges of the embossed letters, but with the letters being small and ornate and different shapes to what you expect them to be - that's the impact of small fiddly fonts. Now picture trying to do it when the embossing is shallow, only extending a very short distance from the surface. Like the embossing you sometimes get on greetings cards. That's the impact of low contrast.Now picture trying to do it when the surface the letters are embossed on is itself bumpy and textured. That's the impact of being over the top of a busy background, i.e. an image behind the text. Now picture trying to do with when the surface is not only bumpy and textured, but those bumps and textures are constantly moving and changing. That's the impact of having the text over animated or video background.Now picture trying to do that when two or more of the above things are combined...Hopefully that helps to explain why OCR has limits. The above things are problematic for other reasons too, for example if you have an attention related condition it can be hard to focus on the text when there's animation of video behind it grabbing your attention, if you have low vision it can be hard to see low contrast text, and if you're dyslexic you might find it difficult to read complex non-standard fonts, or have a hard time reading text that has its outlines messed with by imagery being behind it. So UI design can often be problematic for accessibility in general, but those problems aren't going away any time soon unfortunately.But at least some degree of text to speech for some areas of some games' UI is coming soon. Once that door has been opened I hope it will spread... Ideally lots of companies having to spend time on implementing the same thing over and over will create demand for standardised middleware solutions, which would in turn increase the amount of provision, especially if implemented at engine level. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/post/404813/#p404813 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Learning Game Menus On Xbox
2019-01-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ianhamilton_ via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Learning Game Menus On Xbox Ethin wrote:I don't believe one is. Streaming the Xbox to your computer requires a lot of bandwidth, so that most likely won't work in all situations. Try menu memorization. That works for me.The app works across your local network, bandwidth is never a factor. There is a slight lag, but for menu OCR this is not a factor. When OCR doesn't work the thing that's blocking it is UI design; e.g. small fiddly fonts, over the top of low contrast complex or animated backgrounds.If that's hard to visualise, think of it in terms of a word being embossed into surface, and trying to recognise what the letters are by feeling it. That's pretty much identical what the OCR is trying to do, trying to figure out where the outlines are and what letters they seem most similar to. Now picture you're trying to do the same, trying to read the words by feeling your way around the edges of the embossed letters, but with the letters being small and ornate and different shapes to what you expect them to be - that's the impact of small fiddly fonts. Now picture trying to do it when the embossing is shallow, only extending a very short distance from the surface. Like the embossing you sometimes get on greetings cards. That's the impact of low contrast.Now picture trying to do it when the surface the letters are embossed on is itself bumpy and textured. That's the impact of being over the top of a busy background, i.e. an image behind the text. Now picture trying to do with when the surface is not only bumpy and textured but those bumps and textures are constantly moving and changing. That's the impact of having the text over animated or video background.Now picture trying to do that when two or more of the above things are combined...Hopefully that helps to explain why OCR has limits. The above things are problematic for other reasons too, for example if you have an attention related condition it can be hard to focus on the text when there's animation of video behind it grabbing your attention, if you have low vision it can be hard to see low contrast text, and if you're dyslexic you might find it difficult to read complex non-standard fonts, or have a hard time reading text that has its outlines messed with by imagery being behind it. So UI design can often be problematic for accessibility in general, but those problems aren't going away any time soon unfortunately.But at least some degree of text to speech for some areas of some games' UI is coming soon. Once that door has been opened I hope it will spread... Ideally lots of companies having to spend time on implementing the same thing over and over will create demand for standardised middleware solutions, which would in turn increase the amount of provision, especially if implemented at engine level. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/post/404813/#p404813 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Learning Game Menus On Xbox
2019-01-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ianhamilton_ via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Learning Game Menus On Xbox Ethin wrote:I don't believe one is. Streaming the Xbox to your computer requires a lot of bandwidth, so that most likely won't work in all situations. Try menu memorization. That works for me.The app works across your local network, bandwidth is never a factor. There is a slight lag, but for menu OCR this is not a factor. When OCR doesn't work the things that's blocking it is UI design; e.g. small fiddly fonts, over the top of low contrast complex or animated backgrounds.If that's hard to visualise, think of it in terms of a word being embossed into surface, and trying to recognise what the letters are by feeling it. That's pretty much identical what the OCR is trying to do, trying to figure out where the outlines are and what letters they seem most similar to. Now picture you're trying to do the same, trying to read the words by feeling your way around the edges of the embossed letters, but with the letters being small and ornate and different shapes to what you expect them to be - that's the impact of small fiddly fonts. Now picture trying to do it when the embossing is shallow, only extending a very short distance from the surface. Like the embossing you sometimes get on greetings cards. That's the impact of low contrast.Now picture trying to do it when the surface the letters are embossed on is itself bumpy and textured. That's the impact of being over the top of a busy background, i.e. an image behind the text. Now picture trying to do with when the surface is not only bumpy and textured but those bumps and textures are constantly moving and changing. That's the impact of having the text over animated or video background.Now picture trying to do that when two or more of the above things are combined...Hopefully that helps to explain why OCR has limits. The above things are problematic for other reasons too, for example if you have an attention related condition it can be hard to focus on the text when there's animation of video behind it grabbing your attention, if you have low vision it can be hard to see low contrast text, and if you're dyslexic you might find it difficult to read complex non-standard fonts, or have a hard time reading text that has its outlines messed with by imagery being behind it. So UI design can often be problematic for accessibility in general, but those problems aren't going away any time soon unfortunately.But at least some degree of text to speech for some areas of some games' UI is coming soon. Once that door has been opened I hope it will spread... Ideally lots of companies having to spend time on implementing the same thing over and over will create demand for standardised middleware solutions, which would in turn increase the amount of provision, especially if implemented at engine level. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/post/404813/#p404813 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Learning Game Menus On Xbox
2019-01-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ianhamilton_ via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Learning Game Menus On Xbox Ethin wrote:I don't believe one is. Streaming the Xbox to your computer requires a lot of bandwidth, so that most likely won't work in all situations. Try menu memorization. That works for me.The app works across your local network, bandwidth is never a factor. There is a slight lag, but for menu OCR this is not a factor. When OCR doesn't work the things that's blocking it is UI design; e.g. small fiddly fonts, over the top of low contrast complex or animated backgrounds.If that's hard to visualise, think of it in terms of a word being embossed into surface, and trying to recognise what the letters are by feeling it. That's what the OCR is trying to do. Now picture trying to do the same, but with the letters being small and ornate and different shapes to what you expect them to be - that's the impact of small fiddly fonts. Now picture trying to do it when the embossing is shallow, only extending a very short distance from the surface. Like the embossing you sometimes get on greetings cards. That's the impact of low contrast.Now picture trying to do it when the surface the letters are embossed on is itself bumpy and textured. That's the impact of being over the top of a busy background, i.e. an image behind the text. Now picture trying to do with when the surface is not only bumpy and textured but those bumps and textures are constantly moving and changing. That's the impact of having the text over animated or video background.Hopefully that helps to explain why OCR has limits. The above things are problematic for other reasons too, for example if you have an attention related condition it can be hard to focus on the text when there's animation of video behind it grabbing your attention, if you have low vision it can be hard to see low contrast text, and if you're dyslexic you might find it difficult to read complex non-standard fonts, or have a hard time reading text that has its outlines messed with by imagery being behind it. So UI design can often be problematic for accessibility in general, but those problems aren't going away any time soon unfortunately.But at least some degree of text to speech for some areas of some games' UI is coming soon. Once that door has been opened I hope it will spread... Ideally lots of companies having to spend time on implementing the same thing over and over will create demand for standardised middleware solutions, which would in turn increase the amount of provision, especially if implemented at engine level. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/post/404813/#p404813 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Learning Game Menus On Xbox
2019-01-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ianhamilton_ via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Learning Game Menus On Xbox Ethin wrote:I don't believe one is. Streaming the Xbox to your computer requires a lot of bandwidth, so that most likely won't work in all situations. Try menu memorization. That works for me.The app works across your local network, bandwidth is never a factor. There is a slight lag, but for menu OCR this is not a factor. The thing that blocks menu OCR from working in all situations is UI design; small fiddly fonts. Over the top of low contrast complex or animated backgrounds.If that's hard to visualise, think of it in terms of a word being embossed into surface, and trying to recognise what the letters are by feeling it. That's what the OCR is trying to do. Now picture trying to do the same, but with the letters being small and ornate and different shapes to what you expect them to be - that's the impact of small fiddly fonts. Now picture trying to do it when the embossing is shallow, only extending a very short distance from the surface. Like the embossing you sometimes get on greetings cards. That's the impact of low contrast.Now picture trying to do it when the surface the letters are embossed on is itself bumpy and textured. That's the impact of being over the top of a busy background, i.e. an image behind the text. Now picture trying to do with when the surface is not only bumpy and textured but those bumps and textures are constantly moving and changing. That's the impact of having the text over animated or video background.Hopefully that helps to explain why OCR has limits. The above things are problematic for other reasons too, for example if you have an attention related condition it can be hard to focus on the text when there's animation of video behind it grabbing your attention, if you have low vision it can be hard to see low contrast text, and if you're dyslexic you might find it difficult to read complex non-standard fonts, or have a hard time reading text that has its outlines messed with by imagery being behind it. So UI design can often be problematic for accessibility in general, but those problems aren't going away any time soon unfortunately.But at least some degree of text to speech for some areas of some games' UI is coming soon. Once that door has been opened I hope it will spread... Ideally lots of companies having to spend time on implementing the same thing over and over will create demand for standardised middleware solutions, which would in turn increase the amount of provision, especially if implemented at engine level. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/post/404813/#p404813 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Learning Game Menus On Xbox
2019-01-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ianhamilton_ via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Learning Game Menus On Xbox Ethin wrote:I don't believe one is. Streaming the Xbox to your computer requires a lot of bandwidth, so that most likely won't work in all situations. Try menu memorization. That works for me.The app works across your local network, bandwidth is never a factor. There is a slight lag, but for menu OCR this is not a factor. The thing that blocks menu OCR from working in all situations is UI design; small fiddly fonts. Over the top of low contrast complex or animated backgrounds.If that's hard to visualise, think of it in terms of a word being embossed into surface, and trying to recognise what the letters are by feeling it. That's what the OCR is trying to do. Now picture trying to do the same, but with the letters being small and ornate and different shapes to what you expect them to be - that's the impact of small fiddly fonts. Now picture trying to do it when the embossing is shallow, only extending a very short distance from the surface. Like the embossing you sometimes get on greetings cards. That's the impact of low contrast.Now picture trying to do it when the surface the letters are embossed on is itself bumpy and textured. That's the impact of being over the top of a busy background, i.e. an image behind the text. Now picture trying to do with when the surface is not only bumpy and textured but those bumps and textures are constantly moving and changing. That's the impact of having the text over animated or video background.Hopefully that helps to explain why OCR has limits. The above things are problematic for other reasons too, for example if you have an attention related condition it can be hard to focus on the text when there's animation of video behind it grabbing your attention, if you have low vision it can be hard to see low contrast text, and if you're dyslexic you might find it difficult to read complex non-standard fonts, or have a hard time reading text that has its outlines messed with by imagery being behind it. So UI design can often be problematic for accessibility in general, but those problems aren't going away any time soon unfortunately.But at least some degree of text to speech for some areas of some games' UI is coming soon. Once that door has been opened I hope it will spread... Ideally lots of companies having to spend time on implementing the same thing over and over will create demand for standardised middleware solutions, which would in turn increase the amount of provision, especially if implemented at engine level. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/post/404796/#p404796 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Learning Game Menus On Xbox
2019-01-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ianhamilton_ via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Learning Game Menus On Xbox Ethin wrote:I don't believe one is. Streaming the Xbox to your computer requires a lot of bandwidth, so that most likely won't work in all situations. Try menu memorization. That works for me.The app works across your local network, bandwidth is never a factor. There is a slight lag, but for menu OCR this is not a factor. The thing that blocks menu OCR from working in all situations is UI design; small fiddly text over the top of low contrast complex or animated backgrounds.At least some degree of text to speech for some areas of some games' UI is coming soon. Once that door has been opened I hope it will spread... Ideally lots of companies having to spend time on implementing the same thing over and over will create demand for standardised middleware solutions, which would in turn increase the amount of provision, especially if implemented at engine level. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/post/404796/#p404796 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Learning Game Menus On Xbox
2019-01-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ianhamilton_ via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Learning Game Menus On Xbox Ethin wrote:I don't believe one is. Streaming the Xbox to your computer requires a lot of bandwidth, so that most likely won't work in all situations. Try menu memorization. That works for me.The app works across your local network, bandwidth is never a factor. There is a slight lag, but for menu OCR this is not a factor. The thing that blocks menu OCR from working in all situations is UI design; small fiddly fonts over the top of complex or animated backgrounds.At least some degree of text to speech for some areas of some games' UI is coming soon. Once that door has been opened I hope it will spread... Ideally lots of companies having to spend time on implementing the same thing over and over will create demand for standardised middleware solutions, which would in turn increase the amount of provision, especially if implemented at engine level. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/post/404796/#p404796 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Learning Game Menus On Xbox
Re: Learning Game Menus On Xbox Ethin wrote:I don't believe one is. Streaming the Xbox to your computer requires a lot of bandwidth, so that most likely won't work in all situations. Try menu memorization. That works for me.Well, that's not my experience. Look at my new Wulverblade guide. I have only used OCR to get those menus. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/post/404785/#p404785 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Learning Game Menus On Xbox
2019-01-11
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : rowdyamerican via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Learning Game Menus On Xbox @bigdogOur family has the Xbox 1X and as a totally blind person, I am very happy with it. There is so much we can do with it. I've really just begun my journey with it. I look forward to what's ahead. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/post/404743/#p404743 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Learning Game Menus On Xbox
2019-01-11
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : rowdyamerican via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Learning Game Menus On Xbox @bigdog Our family has the Xbox 1X and as a totally blind person, I am very happy with it. There is so much we can do with it. I've really just begun my journey with it. I look forward to what's ahead. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/post/404743/#p404743 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Learning Game Menus On Xbox
Re: Learning Game Menus On Xbox I don't believe one is. Streaming the Xbox to your computer requires a lot of bandwidth, so that most likely won't work in all situations. Try menu memorization. That works for me. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/post/404742/#p404742 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Learning Game Menus On Xbox
2019-01-11
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : bigdog via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Learning Game Menus On Xbox So I am thinking about getting xbox 1x but should I do that or wait until they come out with the next thing? Not sure if a new system is coming soon. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/post/404738/#p404738 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Learning Game Menus On Xbox
Re: Learning Game Menus On Xbox Hi.Many people are streaming the Xbox screen to the computer by using the Xbox app in Windows 10, and doing OCR to read the game menus. THis works surprisingly well.Then people are getting sighted help to read the menus, taking notes and write them down and maybe share them with others. This can be a challenge, but if the games are playable, then it's really worth it. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/post/404535/#p404535 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Learning Game Menus On Xbox
2019-01-10
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : rowdyamerican via Audiogames-reflector
Learning Game Menus On Xbox I'm wondering how those of you that own the Xbox go about learning game menus? I recently got an Xbox and so far I've read forums on this site, as well as watched youtube videos. Just wondering how others learn game menus. How do you learn the game controls as well? I know these may seem like basic questions, but I'm fairly new to the Xbox and I just want to see how others do things. Learning different methods can help all of us. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/post/404504/#p404504 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
