Re: [Ayatana] Unity sidebar improvement.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 joy chalissery wrote on 25/01/12 19:21: Unity now has only a sidebar to the left and a bar above. Unity does not have a sidebar. I ask why not provide with with bars on all sides with a self hiding feature it would be great. What for? you could also provide page zoom slider on the side so that u dont need to use keyboard shortcuts. A mockup would help here. Also with a bunch of customising features which would help browsing,video and audio a better experience. It could replace the audio features currently being in the tab that you get after clicking the volume adjustment button. This could also eliminate the immediate need of docking apps.While you can use separate apps to make a more fancied desktop if you want. ... Can you be more specific? - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk8n1/gACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecpzsQCffFFOd4savljwshGGGVcAI1ju PMAAnjHUeK+Jd2U9kMQ6zFRFGegKTuOI =daQL -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] why compiz in place of mutter
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 supernova wrote on 29/01/12 08:22: Goodmorning (GMT+1) to all. Yesterday I tried Precise, and it works very good. I have seen that it is a bit slower and more fat than the gnome-shell, as it happened for 11.10, 11.04, ... . I guess it is due to compiz, which is more heavy than mutter. Why don't use mutter then? Unity doesn't use effects as rotation and wobbly. So mutter could be sufficient. ... When Unity switched from Mutter to Compiz in 2010, one of the Unity developers posted an explanation. http://njpatel.blogspot.com/2010/10/marks-keynote-at-uds-spoke-about-one-of.html And so did one of the Compiz developers. http://smspillaz.wordpress.com/2010/10/25/a-bright-new-future-for-compiz/ - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk8luXMACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecrmhACePPq8c5rnyBfAjWUTYVhurS6L wosAnilV8XXzFmxshM0TWDWlRPUhrAOa =rBtG -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] What to call the unity panel?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Michael Terry wrote on 09/01/12 16:56: ... I was about to implement a part of the new System Settings spec [1] when I saw that it referred to the unity panel as the top bar. That design looks like it would benefit from copyediting in general. (For example, no interface should ever refer to functionalities.) But in a past cycle, I implemented the Time Date spec [2] which has UI that refers to the unity panel as the menu bar. So which one is the official user-facing phrase? I can fix either UI to be consistent, I just need to know which. ... The menu bar, lower case, separate words. Thanks! - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk8P+YQACgkQ6PUxNfU6eco3YwCgm0uV73rN0h8sfh1hfvLCKTv0 13EAoJ57uCnqS7htcPu5WTluPGs5EOwF =y80x -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] What to call the unity panel?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Michael Terry wrote on 13/01/12 09:34: On Fri 13 Jan 2012 10:29:41 CET, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: The menu bar, lower case, separate words. Hrm. I'm at a Rally with some other design folks, and talked to them yesterday about this question. They said top bar is the new phrasing because of the plan to allow menus to be integrated with windows as a user preference. Thus, the bar at the top of the screen may not contain any menus at all. Is that known to you and you still prefer menu bar? ... Yes. Even if that was implemented, the only things the bar would contain would be menus (including the very menu you're implementing an option for), and it would look exactly as it does now (because window menus are invisible by default). Thanks - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk8QPJkACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecqgEACdGVENEWLyR6iS6L3HZn3mOQH+ 5dEAoIEhKcq4p4h0JE41mpbQ1s/qLaqS =D4mr -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Video effects when user install programs
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Enrico Enrico Carafa wrote on 10/01/12 20:58: My idea is about an effect that should be added when the user install software from the USC. I mean the effect that can be watched on this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embeddedv=jq_WaOLjdyQ# at the 1.10 min, when the 'Up' film was buyed. But, if the system on the Ubuntu TV is Ubuntu, why don't use the same effect on the Desktop version? ... http://launchpad.net/bugs/761851 Cheers - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk8NVZwACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecovkACgstuaENkjesEZSAgG/e/ZA1dI l9QAmwWwvhCBQ5hax6QCZwuD3i6e2FWP =Gilq -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Unity's Scope
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jonathan Meek wrote on 05/01/12 04:29: In a recent discussion on Google+ Cassidy James (of elementary fame) was asking just what defines a scope or lense on Unity. There is no real set guideline for what they are or should do. To me, Unity is about hooking in and searching. I had this same question on Tuesday, because I was specifying how packaged lenses and scopes should be presented in Ubuntu Software Center. At a stretch, people might be expected to learn what the Dash is. But lenses and scopes are developer jargon, best avoided if possible. So I asked John Lea, and he clarified that lenses and scopes are supposed to be just for searching. I asked, what if someone implemented a calculator lens? (I was reminded of Mac OS X's Spotlight menu: for example, if you enter pi * 2, it will show pi * 2 = 6.28318351 above any search results.) John replied that he'd prefer if that kind of thing wasn't possible in the Dash. So, I specified that the USC subcategory should be called Dash Search Plugins. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter#lenses You should be able to search from Unity for anything (or alter it such that you can) so that it removes the arbitrary imposition of you can search for X in Dash, but Y Z HAVE to be done in a web browser. There will always be searches that have to be done in a Web browser, because nobody has implemented a lens or scope for them yet. And even if there is a lens/scope available, many people won't use it, because they don't know about it, because they don't have permission to install it, or because the Web UI offers features and information density that the Dash can't compete with. (That is, perhaps, one of the reasons Sherlock died. It was too much bother for developers to create, and users to install, plugins for a non-Web client -- despite the Sherlock interface being much more adaptable than the Dash is. http://www.macinstruct.com/node/88 Its partial successor, Dashboard, had the same problem to a lesser extent. http://www.maclife.com/article/feature/are_widgets_dead) If that is the case, then how do we explain the binary clock that's been implemented? Do we stop developers from creating different fun scopes because it should be about search? Or should it be whatever someone can imagine? If it is, when do we say when? How do we make recommendations? ... Perhaps when they try to publish it in USC. You're right that we would need guidelines to point to, though. - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk8Fdp8ACgkQ6PUxNfU6eco4gQCgljz7IwWhwx3ZBgTMb62tTXDy +e0AoKsuywSqOLCdjhzIUnSmhIfWvzRV =uQQu -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] new proposal for notifications / indicators
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 David wrote on 06/12/11 10:05: ... the basic idea is that when you turn the computer on it shows the minimum of indicators thats possible. http://unity.exemo.net/panel_beginning.png you can expand them by clicking on the arrow: http://unity.exemo.net/panel_expanded.png ... Why? What problem would it be solving? That's a good question (as always ;-))There has been already a lot of work done in the top right corner and i don't see any real problems with what we currently have. The only thing is that i have currently 8 indicators that are always visible. Other users might have more or less. I just think that it would look better when you have a maximised application and you have less indicators visible. (the minimum possible) I agree that eight is probably too many by default. There are several other ways that problem could be reduced or eliminated, without hiding important status. First, reduce the number of status menus that appear by default. For example, the user menu is not that useful, unless people often switch between multiple user accounts on your computer, so it could be hidden by default. Similarly, user testing suggests that people don't understand why webcams and printers are in the device menu; I'd like to see more user testing of that menu, to see how well people understand it at all. Second, provide greater user control of which menus are shown. We'd like to have a checkbox for each of them in their respective System Settings panel (like there is already for the clock menu in the Time Date settings). I think for the same reason that the window buttons are not visible when not needet. Third, introduce a proper standard Full Screen mode, that has no window frame *or* menu bar, replacing maximized mode altogether. The current scheme of mixing window buttons, window titles, and menu titles in the same area of the screen is inconsistent and tacky, and causes the problem repeatedly shown in user testing where people can't find menus. If the messaging menu was hidden by default, what use would it be? I didn't mean to use the messaging menu like we have it today. More something like a list of the latest notifications that you got Looking something like this: http://ubuntuone.com/3pQaNx9TdpPXEZHMIjPgdP except not the tabs at the bottom For the purpose of my question, it doesn't matter what's inside the menu. The menu exists at least partly to show that there *are* new messages. Maybe that's not worth trying for at all, since it already didn't work for software updates (though at least an envelope is much more obvious than any software updates icon could be). But it couldn't work at all if it was hidden. How do you classify devices under notification indicators? What would this notify you of? (using the word notifications was not really a good idea from me.) We could show for example an entry for every device where it makes sense. Every entry could contain a menu with actions For example - UsbStick - Documents (17) // open gnome-documents - Videos (3) // open gnome videos - see all files // open nautilus - Video DVD - Watch Movie // open totem - Import or Rip Movie // open ... etc This could remove the need to open a window in situations like this: If a new printer is plugged in and recognized automatically while neither a Print dialog nor System Settings (any panel) is open, System Settings should open to the Printers panel, the list of printers should scroll to show the new printer, and it should be selected in the list. (This is analogous to a USB storage device window opening when it is connected.) So do you think that when a USB storage device is connected, its window should not open, just a menu should appear? That would be a very small change. ... People didn't see the updates notification area item even when it was shown by default. What use would it be if it was hidden? :-) The reason why some people don't see it is in my opinion because we have indicators where some people don't care about. Lets say we have a user who uses his computer only to look his mails (in gmail) and to browse the internet. His first time where he uses ubuntu he look around and finds out how to connect to the internet, ... (or a friend shows him) But after that the internet connect automatically etc and he just look at the top-right to look at the clock and maybe adjust the volume when he is in youtube. He simply doesn't care about what else is there. When i look how it works for example in android: At the top left you have the name of your carrier and nothing else When you got 1 or more notifications the carrier will be replaced with 1 or more icons. You now have icons where before where only text. You see that immediatly and choose based on the icons if you want to check the notification now, later or just clear it. If i am right about this people will notice the
Re: [Ayatana] Will Modal-Dialog windows fix this problem with Unity?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 frederik.nn...@gmail.com wrote on 10/12/11 18:07: On Sat, Dec 10, 2011 at 18:40, nick rundy nru...@hotmail.com ... How can I minimize a window when a modal-dialog has taken over the focus of the window? Right clicking the Update Manager icon in the Launcher does not give a minimize option either. Anyone consider this a problem with the Unity design? No, that would be a bug in Compiz. a window should change its shape and design, it should morph, rather than spawn new little focus stealing dialog boxes. MPT had a design for that iirc, morphing windows, especially pertaining to update-manager. I don't know where all that good work went, but it surely didn't land in 11.10, unfortunately. did it? ... My design for Update Manager does use a morphing window. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareUpdates#Installing The code didn't land in 11.10 because it doesn't exist yet. :-) I would be delighted if anyone volunteered to implement even a small bit of that design. (I've specified it as lots of independent chunks, to make this easier.) However, while that would solve Nick's problem for Update Manager in particular, it would not solve the problem in general. For example, when you save a document for the first time, the document window shouldn't morph into a Save dialog. That would change too much of the screen at once (visual instability), and it would hide information that you needed for deciding the document's name. Instead, you should be able to minimize a window regardless of whether it has a dialog modal to it. - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk7p6a4ACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecpu8ACfVAr7XNNKXHkadwMYf6pVebp5 AB8AnRtH0K5gITa8N0k6VJeDj1VCek4o =3b3R -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Clippy has noticed you've been trying to click on notifications...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Evan Huus wrote on 03/12/11 15:43: ... Currently when an event occurs (for example, someone says something in a minimized empathy chat), a notification pops up and the messaging indicator turns blue. They happen at the same time, but the events don't appear related. Technically they are two components of the same event, but they appear on two different, not visibly related UI elements as two separate events. This is made even worse if the notification is delayed because it is queued behind other notifications. In that case the indicator turns blue well before the notification appears, so the user has no idea which notification the blue indicator is associated with. Additionally, the change of colour in the indicator is not particularly noticeable. Anecdotally I have found that people either don't notice it at all, or ignore it because they don't know what it means (was there a usability study on this? I remember one, but couldn't find it any more...) Yes. From https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2011-April/032988.html: Only 2/6 noticed an XChat Gnome notification, despite (1) a notification bubble appearing, (2) the Ubuntu button going blue, (3) the messaging menu envelope going blue, and (4) an emblem appearing on XChat Gnome's launcher. (In 11.10, fewer things change: the Ubuntu button no longer goes blue.) That's the problem. There are a couple of possible solutions, but here's one that makes the most sense to me: - Link notifications to indicators via a speech-bubble-like tail. Volume change notifications get linked to the sound indicator, empathy notifications get linked to the messaging indicator, etc. I believe that just this change on its own will help significantly. Notifications are transient, so people can't interact with them, but with this change the notifications are at least *pointing* to something interactive. They still don't require interaction (which was one of the original design goals I agree with) but they make it obvious how. This should reduce the frustration felt by users who are used to interacting with notifications directly on other operating systems. Three problems there. Most importantly, in the 11.04 test, people didn't see the bubble either. Would a bubble with a tail be much more noticable than one without a tail? Second, giving Ubuntu notification bubbles tails would make them look more like Windows notification balloons ... which are clickable. :-) Third, what would happen when there were two or more bubbles on screen at once? Would the tail of the second obscure the first? ... I personally think the above change would be sufficient, but we have other options as well: - Add a glow effect and a *very* gentle pulse to active (blue) indicators. This will make them slightly more obvious and interactive-looking than currently. We'll have to be careful not to make them too distracting, though. - Change the notification animation to be a magic-lamp like expand and collapse into the appropriate indicator. Could be used instead of or in addition to the speech-bubble-tail. I expect this would end up being too active/busy, but you never know. ... Perhaps when battery is critically low, the battery icon should blink constantly even once you've dismissed the warning alert. - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk7mPMwACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecrKiACgkc5ylUSxk1xguFT2qQAm+7xF 4JIAoL9aD7fJki9WoaL+akYFM+7+N7Ju =kPOQ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Notifications in unity
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Conscious User wrote on 30/11/11 20:08: Which reminds me, shouldn't we stop pretending that synchronous and asynchronous notifications are similar enough to deserve being close? They are not, and the current approach causes more problems than solves. What problems does it cause? The most obvious one is the ugly gap when no synchronous notification is being shown. But I personally think that making synchronous and asynchronous informations have the same appearance and positioning is a mistake by itself. One is to notify and is supposed to call the user's attention. The other one is to provide feedback and is something that the user expects to appear. So much visual similarity for such different things is confusing. Fair enough. What problems does it solve? I am *supposing* that the idea is concentrating all notifications in a single place of the screen, thus simplifying things for the user. But this only makes sense if their purpose is similar enough to deserve such concentration, and I don't think they are. I don't remember that there was ever a conscious decision about whether they should be presented the same way. (That's not covered in the specification's Rationale, at least.) It was just assumed that they should be. I do admit that the positioning is good when changing the volume with the scrollwheel, but that's the only case I can think of. If we must insist that their appearance must be the same, then the synchronous bubbles should at least be moved to somewhere else, like the lower corner (they can be there with no problems, since their size is fixed) In December 2009 I drew up some possible alternative placements.https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotifyOSD#position Ops, sorry. I'm using the old sync vs. async terminology when I should be using confirmation vs. notification. Anyway, is it my impression or the current placement is not even considered a valid one according to the specification? Correct. Option 3 is by far my favorite. I remember Option 2 being tested and receiving some bad feedback (of questionable value, though, as I remember it was available for a very short period of time) Are there any reasons for not testing option 3? Only that no-one has implemented it. But I don't think even the appearance should be the same. In the attached screenshot you can see what appears when I click the play button when no player is open (I suppose it's a bug that notify-osd is not handling this), and in my opinion is much better. Why do you think it's better? (I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you on any of these, but we need to be able to explain *why* something is worse or better.) It's visually and positionally different enough to not be confused with async notifications, and provides a very clear feedback. And at least in my opinion the exposition time is short enough to avoid intrusiveness (like volume gauges on TVs) ... And with a more transparent appearance, it could be even less intrusive. - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk7mQQcACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecokpgCdHYmoG7cDQfRiKCRddcX0shoM SfkAn2SUgJxgNrEov7Ihg4+28AFArOqc =0Fmi -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Clippy has noticed you've been trying to click on notifications...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Chow Loong Jin wrote on 29/11/11 16:20: On 29/11/2011 23:08, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: The first reason is that a chat window wouldn't be noticable unless it was frontmost; it's difficult (or little-known) to make a window frontmost without making it take focus; and if a window takes focus while you're working, that's annoying. If a window kept popping up in your face and obscuring what you were working on, it would be just as annoying. ... True. But it could appear only when someone starts a conversation, rather than every time they say something. - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk7YupUACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecqGsQCdFL3jgYBHqOtrOaN9IOf+5wI8 /P4An06P+9lBOxP0IrNWJ9Xv7jpyp8De =iLvW -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] new proposal for notifications / indicators
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 David wrote on 29/11/11 21:56: ... actually we show per default: - messages (status/chat/twitter/mail/ubuntu_one) - battery - bluetooth - network - sound (volume/music) - clock - session switcher (switch user) - Power (shutdown ...) Here is my proposal: - me menu - like https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeMenu or gnome-shell Why? What problem would it be solving? system indicators: (hidden by default, can be shown by clicking on an arrow) - sound - battery - network notification indicators: (hidden by default) - messages - like http://ubuntuone.com/3pQaNx9TdpPXEZHMIjPgdP If the messaging menu was hidden by default, what use would it be? - devices How do you classify devices under notification indicators? What would this notify you of? - updates - update all - -- - Ubuntu - -- - App1 - App2 - ... People didn't see the updates notification area item even when it was shown by default. What use would it be if it was hidden? :-) Also, a menu item wouldn't show enough information for you to be able to decide whether you want to update a particular application. - progress - like https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ayatana/ProgressIndication - ... Why? What would be the use of collecting progress of different tasks into a menu? (As a comparison, should we also collect errors from different tasks into a single menu? Why or why not? How about selected text from different tasks? Or the most recently opened file from different tasks?) How it should work: - per default only the me menu should be visible. - clock: To be able to do that we need to find a new place for the clock. (launcher/dash?) The Dash is hidden by default, and the launcher is usually hidden. Do you think it is reasonable to hide the clock most of the time? - networking: is most of the time not needed (automatic connects at lan/known wlan/usb/...) - battery: is only interesting when its discharging Your arrangement would hide it even when it is discharging. - sound: annoying when its hidden and you don't have hardware buttons Does that mean it should be shown by default? - indicators are only visible when needed - you can click on an arrow to see - battery - network - sound (hides automatic when you move your mouse away from the panel) - we could show a number for how many notifications happened (3 in messages, 2 downloads, ...) - only notifications and system indicators should be allowed - To do that we need to find the use cases of the other indicators and find ways to handle them (i didn't really do that) - for some indicators it might be enough to use quicklist? (tomboy) I agree there's no compelling reason for a note-taking application to have its own status menu. - we could improve minimize - good for apps like opera/lernid/... that wants to hide their main window - every application could be hidden by minimizing it - minimized apps could be shown ass small icons at the bottom in the launcher - easier to have a feature to start apps hidden at login. How does this relate to indicator menus? - not sure how other indicators like cpu scaling or desktop recording etc could be handled Indicators become visible/hidden when a specific notification happens: - Open Wireless connection found - notification + network indicator fades in - connection etablished - notification + if visible network indicator fades out - New mail - notification + message indicator fades in - New chat - notification + message indicator fades in - another new mail - notification + updated message indicator Do you mean that it would fade in and stay there, or that it would fade in temporarily? - New Printer found. Installing... - only notification - Driver for printer needed - notification + device menu fades in - Printer is ready to use - notification + if visible device indicator fades out Yesterday I started writing up proposals for how various printer events should be presented. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Printing - New updates found - notification + update indicator fades in (with feature to update all) - please close firefox to continue updates - notification + update indicator change state - playing music - sound menu fades in Hmm, that seems a little bit backwards. Usually when music starts playing, it's because you told it to play, so you don't need a notification in that case. On the other hand, the sound menu currently lets you quickly start music playing in the first place -- and it wouldn't be nearly so quick if it was hidden by default. - audio conversation (skype and co) - sound menu fades in - sound menu fades out when finished - ... pro - The blue icon effect is no longer needed Hurrah. :-) - there was a notification when you see an icon - there was no notification when there is no icon -
Re: [Ayatana] Window controls to left or buttons to right?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Enrico Carafa wrote on 27/11/11 10:32: So, one of the most discussed topic is the position of the window controls. To the right or to the left? Many users says that the controls to the left is better because it's close with the menu. But others prefer these to right. But, why don't choice both? I mean, we can make that the window controls change the position on left (or right) depending on the position of the mouse: if the mouse is in the left part of the windows, the control appear to the left, otherwise if the mouse is in the right part of the windows, the control appear to the right. ... Because that would be distracting. The title bar would be wobbling about even when the pointer was hundreds of pixels away. - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk7XbfMACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecrQJgCfSZaj2NSueHsN+Is0JIy1BzXs 4RoAn07+AAI/wHeRaa+iOPcOtizD5ogQ =FqXg -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Notifications in unity
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Conscious User wrote on 29/11/11 17:54: Em 29-11-2011 12:54, Matthew Paul Thomas escreveu: ... Christian Rupp wrote on 15/11/11 16:06: ... First of all I would move the bubble closer to the panel That looks much nicer. Which reminds me, shouldn't we stop pretending that synchronous and asynchronous notifications are similar enough to deserve being close? They are not, and the current approach causes more problems than solves. What problems does it cause? What problems does it solve? If we must insist that their appearance must be the same, then the synchronous bubbles should at least be moved to somewhere else, like the lower corner (they can be there with no problems, since their size is fixed) In December 2009 I drew up some possible alternative placements.https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotifyOSD#position But I don't think even the appearance should be the same. In the attached screenshot you can see what appears when I click the play button when no player is open (I suppose it's a bug that notify-osd is not handling this), and in my opinion is much better. Why do you think it's better? (I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you on any of these, but we need to be able to explain *why* something is worse or better.) Also, notice how much more transparent it is. It seems significatively less clickable than OSD bubbles. It can get away with being more transparent because it contains only large chunky graphics, never text. - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk7WMCkACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecoWKACfRjV+oVjvzDonB2M7cuSzJhZp 4vEAnAht91dsZU+Aw81UzxgKSB3uZl94 =TuDA -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Notifications in unity
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Christian Rupp wrote on 15/11/11 16:06: Currently notifications in unity are what they called: notifications: they don't do anything else... I really like in GS to be able to answer immediately or a friend complained that he wants to click on the notification to open the program behind. First of all I would move the bubble closer to the panel That looks much nicer. Then after a short delay i would minimize it if you click on it in this state it would open the application which is linked (in this case banshee) How would people understand that it did something different when clicked in large state vs. small state? I don't know of any other case where something getting smaller indicates that it's clickable. If it would be a chat program and you would hover the minimized bubble it shows a text field, where you can enter a message... if you click on the bubble above the field it would open the chat window ... Chat programs already have an interface for entering a message: the chat window. The design principle of parsimony suggests that we should first try using the same interface for notifying you of a conversation as for participating in the conversation. At the moment, there are two main reasons chat programs don't do that on Ubuntu. The first reason is that a chat window wouldn't be noticable unless it was frontmost; it's difficult (or little-known) to make a window frontmost without making it take focus; and if a window takes focus while you're working, that's annoying. That can be fixed, by figuring out what code makes a window frontmost without being focused, publicizing that code if it's simple, or putting it in a library if it's hard. The second reason is that a chat window would take up much more space than a notification bubble does. That too can be fixed, by making the window small before you click it, and enlarging it after you click it. Here's a mockup of this idea from 2009, for the similar case of a file share. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotificationDesignGuidelines#Morphing_window - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk7U8h8ACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecpDegCcC7kNEniDlVDiXI+r/YEYbHha x78AoI+2dgqfFTttbtCk8Rt94kWsjFMh =zGkQ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] What's up with all the non-resizable windows?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 staticd wrote on 19/11/11 11:41: Another problem that is brought about by non resizable windows is dealing with error messages: they get truncated and cant be read.(e.g. software center error messages) ... And that isn't true either. The problem with the USC error messages is a listbox that was tall enough in GTK2 but is being laid out far too short in GTK3. Making the window resizable wouldn't fix the bug. - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk7HnoYACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecpnEQCeIAnIqg5oG19rakNWpCHbUstF flMAoIEEv8z+FDhFBTUiMGfEkVg1PS0m =pS6p -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] New design: Opening applications and documents automatically at login
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Matthew Paul Thomas wrote on 20/10/11 16:34: ... For some people, it is useful to open particular applications or documents every time they log in. ... I'd appreciate your feedback on the design. https://live.gnome.org/Design/SystemSettings/LoginItems ... Thanks everyone for your feedback. I've made some changes based on your suggestions. https://live.gnome.org/action/info/Design/SystemSettings/LoginItems?action=diffrev2=18rev1=17 tommy wrote on 20/10/11 16:41: ... It would be nice if this panel could have option to start the application minimized - for example Empathy, Skype or Pidgin. That would be awkward to implement (for example, what if you choose to have one bookmark minimized and another not, and the browser opens them as tabs in the same window?), but I've added it as a possible future enhancement. And a feature, which I think some users will find useful - startup applications added by system administrator (that cannot be deleted by ordinary user) - for example some scripts that will log something, or download something to the desktop. Good idea, I've added that as a future enhancement too. Jeremy Bicha wrote on 20/10/11 17:48: ... GNOME has really overloaded the Shell term. I'd suggest renaming Add Shell Command to something like Add Custom Command. Good point. Changed. In your mockup of the Add Shell Command dialog, you show a file folder; I think that's a bad idea as the file-browser isn't really a good way to look for shell commands. Why not? You don't have to use it, but it's a place to start if you've forgotten the name of a command (e.g. epiphany-browser). If it's not too difficult to add, bash auto-completion would be cool though. Good idea. Added. ... A drop-down box for the + button is new to GNOME, isn't it? Yes, Didier Roche had far more difficulty than he should have in implementing the same thing for OneConf. It needs fixing in GTK. As a side point, I think if Name Photo Security are 2 separate subpanels, then those subpanels would be mostly empty. ... Not if the Photo panel actually let you take a photo, like the installer does. Evan Huus wrote on 20/10/11 17:50: ... One thing that I would like it to support is mounting partitions. I have my music on a separate internal NTFS partition so that it can be accessed by Windows. At the moment, the first thing I have to do when I log in is browse to that folder in Nautilus so that it gets mounted (by gvfs?). The only way currently to have a partition auto-mount on login is via /etc/fstab, which affects all users and requires root access. An Add Partition... option below the Add Shell Command... option would be absolutely fantastic. (Obviously the label and location are subject to change). ... I don't quite understand the problem here. Why do you need to mount the partition when you log in? Omar B. wrote on 20/10/11 19:37: I like where things are going here, but wouldn't it be better to have a remember session(s) option (currently xfce, kde, etc. have it), Remembering what was open when you logged out is an orthogonal problem: you might want to do that instead, or as well. The Gnome developers seem incapable of implementing it, but there was a session at UDS about making the previous partly-working implementation available once more. https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-p-gnome-session also kde has Activities which is really great feature, is like having multiple user sessions with its own preferences, but very easy to manage, add , delete, stop ,etc. Can you give some examples of use cases for that? Sense Egbert Hofstede wrote on 22/10/11 13:53: ... I like your ideas and putting it under account management seems a good move to me. However, maybe adding three different things -- files, commands and applications -- to one list, could be confusing. Though one list certainly is a more elegant solution that separate lists. Another suggestion I have is to allow people to choose to start 'default chat client' at login, rather than specifically Empathy. This would be consistent with the approach chosen for the messages indicator and it would prevent requiring people to learn the names of all applications. It would add another type of thing to the three in the list already, though. ... As far as I know, there isn't actually such a thing as the default chat client (not to be confused with the chat client shipped on the CD). The messaging menu just pretends there is. And as long as it's practical to uninstall Empathy and install some other IM client, I think it's counterproductive to hide Empathy's identity. And as you say, it would be adding another kind of thing to the list. Thibaut Brandscheid wrote on 25/10/11 18:09: ... I tried to combine all three topics into one interface → Mock-up http://image-upload.de/image/tk0GyW/dad7cb0f55.png
Re: [Ayatana] Dash More Apps and Find Files options are redundant
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Josh Strawbridge wrote on 21/10/11 17:32: yea with the lenses included in dash it finally makes all of those buttons redundant with the possible exception of shotwell. the whole initial dash view should be reworked. ... Apparently the Unity developers plan to remove those buttons. http://launchpad.net/bugs/885738 - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk7CoKEACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecokaACbBxu9pOx4CyQLQ1iHc44X6Non w1sAoLooYsJ0ew098LvKf397tGh0lr+j =K2BP -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Shut Down in Dash and with Key-Combination
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Sony-qs wrote on 23/10/11 00:27: There are two more things in oneiric to change! Before it was possible to open the Shut Down-Dialog with Ctrl+Alt+Del, now there's is Logout! Thats not bad, ... Yes it is. :-) By itself, Ctrl Alt Del is a completely non-obvious key combo. The only reason it does anything at all in Ubuntu is that it does something special in Windows. But what it does in Windows is completely different. So if it does anything in Ubuntu, it should be similar to what it does in Windows. http://launchpad.net/bugs/890747 but there should be also a Key-Combination to open the new Shut Down-Dialog. ... Pressing the power button on your computer opens a dialog that lets you shut down. There's no need for a keyboard shortcut for a separate dialog for the same thing. - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk7CoLMACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecrAfgCdFnwrS2O08e2anUuWWQEiKAHL psEAnRASTGBCOL+qXisJF6GYss5vp4+P =bsmT -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Easy to use menus for touch and non touch devices
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Matt Richardson wrote on 03/11/11 09:01: It strikes me that the idea behind hiding the menus has been that for people with touch devices these menus are not useful and future applications should avoid the use of menus where possible. That is the idea, but it is a misunderstanding. Touch applications avoid menus partly through gestures, which often aren't available on a PC, and mostly though having many fewer features than they would on a PC. (For example, iTunes, Pages, and Keynote on iOS all have fewer features than the same apps on Mac OS X.) However, this requires developers to rewrite their programs with touch friendly interfaces and does not, in the intervening time, offer a solution. True. Imagine if you were at Adobe, for example, porting Photoshop to Ubuntu. Avoiding menus obviously wouldn't be an option: it has far too many features for that, and the interface needs to be mostly consistent across platforms anyway. But Ubuntu's native menus wouldn't be nearly visible enough for all those features. Possibly the least bad choice would be to use a non-native menu bar. As an all round solution I suggest replacing the context menu with a gnome pie menu which would contain the context menu items in the right half, and the top menus as items in the left half. For example: Right clicking a blank space in Nautilus would bring up a pie in which 'Create New Folder', 'Create New Document' etc through to 'Properties', would make up the right half of the pie and 'File', 'Edit', 'View' etc through to 'Help' would make up the left half of the pie. ... Pie menus wouldn't work there, because they'd have many text items. http://elementaryos.org/journal/argument-against-pie-menus Pie menus do work when their items are few or icon-only. http://patternry.com/p=radial-menu/ - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk6yp+EACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecrQmgCfRFYVbM/U9P3OtxfpKjKiZSws sBUAmwbMUb/Bl2ZzJYybvnebz9KVQpKv =pkoD -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] semi-transparent indicator menus
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Omar B. wrote on 28/10/11 14:48: ... From: frederik.nn...@gmail.com ... Unity introduces a new look, but Indicators Menus, which were there before the Dash, are not yet up to date in that respect. Obviously, there is no alpha for indicator menus, no way to set transparency in CCSM for them. I'd like to have control over that as a power user, power user being the bridge between designers, developers and plain users. the main reason i see for having transparent indicator menus is visual consistency: finally, we'd have one unified look for all of Unity, of which Indicator Menus imo are a part. Which do you think is more important: for indicator menus to have the same style as other pull-down menus, or the same style as the Dash? ... Would look more consistent and nice. some mockups: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_JSR8IC77Ub4/TTRwD1iIvKI/BoM/yxWXeJR6ZCo/s1600/unity_global_menu_idea_by_musl1m-d3400kk.png http://musl1m.deviantart.com/art/Unity-Global-Menu-Idea-188117732 So if you chose the Dash ... Which do you think is more important: for all pull-down menus to have the same style as shortcut (context) menus, or the same style as the Dash? If you think *all* menus should be semi-transparent, then there will be all kinds of situations where the background makes the menus hard to read. The Dash partly solves this readability problem by using larger text whenever possible. Menus can't. Also, gnome-shell menus look way better, so unity is very far behind here and is looking outdated compared to many shells, even the commercial ones. Actually those mockups remind me of Mac OS X a decade ago, before its designers realized that any level of transparency in menus was a bad idea. (But then they repeated the mistake with the menu bar as a whole...) - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk6rHioACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecryWwCgh5PBVnKWol9EuAZ3eMKHfBNa 3n8Anj7pxQRhg3VVOY94U1GRnZnikxuk =R8+s -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Ayatana] New design: Opening applications and documents automatically at login
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi folks For some people, it is useful to open particular applications or documents every time they log in. (For example, every day when I log in at work, I launch XChat, Firefox, and a time sheet text document.) Every version of Ubuntu has had a Startup Applications settings window for choosing applications to open automatically at login. Gnome 3 in Ubuntu 11.10 now has an integrated System Settings window (gnome-control-center). But it does not yet integrate these particular settings. So, yesterday I finished a design for these settings in the System Settings window. My design extends the existing User Accounts panel; this avoids adding an extra panel, lets administrators troubleshoot login items for other accounts, and lets them set items for the guest account. It also allows opening files, not just applications. I'd appreciate your feedback on the design. https://live.gnome.org/Design/SystemSettings/LoginItems Cheers - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk6gP2sACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecoWiACgvXz7AU7WCnKLQQe3JLdAMMiv e+QAn0ziqngFlwI4G8Et3EDDnEGHBInU =f3De -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] stop quick hide application top menu on top task bar
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Charles charlesa...@gmail.com wrote on 15/10/11 20:02: ... could you make the active application top menu appears all the time on the task bar just like mac osx? it annoys me i have to hover my mouse to the top task bar each time i want to change the preferences or options. current experience it's just not as smooth as it should be. if only the active application shows the top menu all the time in the top task bar would be a great addition. ... This is http://launchpad.net/bugs/732653. Cheers - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk6cJv8ACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecrtFwCfZZG3MzuyYz3tKfe796Sb8K6Z ztQAoIH5tlTWc1p35rFy7zsnj+u94tZ2 =YBYn -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Ayatana dev list - attitude
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 charlesa...@gmail.com wrote on 16/10/11 10:50: ... I do still believe there's something has to change regarding the up to date software installation, just like in windows xp, though it's old from year 2001, but we still able to install most of the latest software on it. Unlike on Ubuntu, to get latest software, we have to upgrade the to the current update release, or using an unofficial ppa or backport repository, and sometimes the latest one is not supported anymore on previous ubuntu release. It's okay to upgrade ubuntu one or two machine, but to imagine upgrading 60-75 machines, that's a very time consuming process, assumed one pc takes 45 minutes to 1 hour long. ... Vendors provide updated applications for Windows XP because it's easy to do, and because hundreds of millions of people still use Windows XP. The easier it is to provide updated applications for an OS version, and the more users that version has, the more likely a vendor will do it. So, there are three ways to get more application updates for old Ubuntu versions. 1. Make it easier for application developers to provide updates at all, through developer.ubuntu.com. 2. Increase the number of Ubuntu users in general. 3. Increase the proportion of Ubuntu users using each version, by reducing the number of versions in use at any one time. - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk6cLPcACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecovYgCeLG3SQY2tB/9kzxdBUCdNY907 U1oAoL5mYRxhChnro0emVg7iIF4bacBe =Gqlv -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] What's up with all the non-resizable windows?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Stefanos A. wrote on 16/10/11 15:24: *Some* windows are ok to resize, because for those windows, the probability that people would resize them deliberately multiplied by the benefit from doing so is greater than the probability that people would resize them accidentally multiplied by the pain from doing so. I disagree with the core of this assumption. If a window becomes painful when resize, then that window is broken, period. It should be redesigned to work correctly when resized. It may not be anything to do with the contents of the window. For example, someone may have accidentally resized the window to cover the whole screen, and not understand what they did. The launcher is hidden by default when a window is nearly full-screen, and (if Windows users are any guide) only about a quarter of users use Alt Tab[1][2], so they may be left unable to switch windows at all until the window closes. [1] http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/groups/vibe/msr-vibelog-07.pdf [2] http://www.pcpitstop.com/research/shortcuts.asp For other kinds of window the inequality tips the other way -- usually as a result of resizing being much less useful, and sometimes also as a result of a usability benefit from all windows of the same type always being the same size for instant recognizability (which increases the pain of resizing them by mistake, as they then become less recognizable). Examples of the former include properties windows, preference dialogs, and most individual control panels; examples of the latter include alerts and progress windows. You can achieve instant recognizability by opening all related windows (e.g. alerts) at the same initial size. Your argument makes a huge logical jump in saying that these windows should be fixed-size (instead of resizable with identical initial size). If a user choose to resize such a window it's because she has a reason to do so. Disallowing this *probably* prohibits the user from doing something he needed to do. You're quite right. I was counting loss of consistency as part of the cost, but I was wrong about that part. Concrete example: the language support dialog that reads The language support is not installed completely. This is a fixed-size dialog has a 2-line listbox that contains more than 10 lines of text, something that falls somewhere between completely broken and impossible to use. You simply don't have enough space to display all necessary information - and by making the window non-resizable, you prohibit the user from accessing the information necessary for an informed decision (install / cancel). Awesome. You'll be pleased to know I redesigned that window last week, including a much taller language list. https://live.gnome.org/Design/SystemSettings/RegionAndLanguage#inline-installation How should I approach these bugs? Open a single bug report about all non-resizable applications (and be ignored or told to file separate bugs?) Open a new bug report for each broken non-resizable application (only to be told to file upstream?) File reports upstream (and be told these are by design?) ... Engineers use bug reports to track progress in fixing bugs, so one bug report per thing that needs fixing. Separate windows that are inappropriately unresizable should have separate bug reports. - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk6cOZIACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecoRwQCbB4avkfWK6pyTcP9IJ97XqWPA fGAAn1HucvKjFZNQSgFWiESgESU9pJjC =A0gr -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] reduce the font and ui size!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 charlesa...@gmail.com wrote on 15/10/11 19:58: dear unity developer team, could you please reduce the default font and ui size of unity and ubuntu overall, they really taking much screen real estate, or at least give us option to reduce the dpi or ppi setting like the one in windows. after playing with unity and ubuntu 11.04 and 11.10, and changing back to windows, it feels that windows font and ui size are much better, perhaps because it's smaller. for people who love big size font and ui still could enlarge them from dpi or ppi setting. in windows there's a 96% ppi, 100% ppi, and 125% ppi. i also believe in mac osx, the font and ui size are almost identical small with windows. ... What would help here is for someone to make a screenshot comparison of the same windows, laid out in exactly the same positions, on Ubuntu, Windows, and OS X. For example, Thunderbird, Windows Live Mail, and Apple Mail showing the same message in the same Imap mailbox; the Adobe Reader Preferences window; and the Calculator window. We might find that the problem is partly font size, but partly also size and padding of interface controls. - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk6cPKcACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecrJDACgpHs935itz/LbFMlRVwn9Tnsk GhUAoMqGLvaxigrp5kEgSjAmX2854FfB =RDPG -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana-commits] [Merge] lp:~jjardon/indicator-datetime/fix-833337 into lp:indicator-datetime
I think that would be better than trying to invent understandable rules for when locations will be hidden, definitely. I've just forwarded you part of a discussion I had with Ted about this. Thanks! -- https://code.launchpad.net/~jjardon/indicator-datetime/fix-87/+merge/79332 Your team ayatana-commits is subscribed to branch lp:indicator-datetime. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana-commits Post to : ayatana-commits@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana-commits More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] What's up with all the non-resizable windows?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Stefanos A. wrote on 13/10/11 22:22: 2011/10/13 Matthew Paul Thomas m...@canonical.com ... Stefanos A. wrote on 13/10/11 15:09: ... Off-hand, I recall the official installer, which cannot be resized when the show details area does not fit inside the window. This happens in the downloading packages and installing packages parts of the installation - since you can't resize the window, you cannot see what actions are being taken by the installer. This seems to be http://launchpad.net/bugs/149911, which was reported in 2007, so it's not specific to 11.10. In previous versions of the installer I could read messages just fine. In 11.10 I can't, on all three different systems I tested, because there is no space for these messages to appear. This is on the English version, so it's not the bug in your link. Okay. I wasn't sure, because that bug report doesn't contain a screenshot, and you haven't reported a bug on Ubiquity since February. Could you possibly report the bug and attach a screenshot? Thanks. The new System Settings control panel also fits the bill. This is *especially* aggravating, since the window is a tad too big for a 1366x768 or 1280x800 screen (that's what most laptops use). Today, I had an issue with a misconfigured keyboard shortcut, so I opened an internet article that described the fix. In such occasions, I arrange the browser window and the configuration window side-by-side, so I can refer to the article while fixing the issue. Or that's what I used to do, since the new settings window *cannot be resized* to fit side-by-side on my monitor. It's always there, taking up lots of space, *covering* the article with the instructions I need. Like most dialogs, many of the System Settings panels are designed with a particular size in mind. For the window to be manually resizable would be inappropriate. Why? Why are they designed for a specific size, when that's against the Gnome HIG? That isn't true either. The HIG says that toolboxes should be resizable, that alerts shouldn't be, and that progress windows should be in specific cases. It says nothing about the resizability of settings or Preferences windows. And since the Gnome developers believe that System Settings shouldn't contain third-party panels (a misguided belief, but that's another story), the HIG doesn't contain guidelines for designing panels at all. What if I use a larger font or a different screen size? Ubuntu does not ship a graphical interface for choosing a larger font. The standard size should be large enough for almost everyone to read (with people with vision impairments being catered for by magnifiers). As for screen size, the Ubiquity developers set themselves a minimum screen size to fit on. (I think it is 1024*600, though I'd have to ask them.) Sometimes a panel goes beyond that target, and when it does, it is treated as a bug. The same should be true for System Settings. If the window is too large for an important proportion of screens, that's a bug that should be fixed, not an excuse for making the window resizable. These dialogs were proper resizable windows in 11.04, so this is a regression not an excuse. Apparently I was unclear. If a window is too large for a screen, then it is too large for that screen, *regardless of whether it is resizable*. Resizability is irrelevant to the problem. Besides, what is the common thread between a proper ok, cancel dialog and something like the mouse settings panel or the ubuntu installer? That's a rhetorical question, these things have absolutely *nothing* in common. If you have a more convincing argument than inappropriate I would love to hear it. Here's how I described it nine years ago: *Some* windows are ok to resize, because for those windows, the probability that people would resize them deliberately multiplied by the benefit from doing so is greater than the probability that people would resize them accidentally multiplied by the pain from doing so. (The same inequality, generalized, should apply to anything which a program allows a user to do.) For other kinds of window the inequality tips the other way -- usually as a result of resizing being much less useful, and sometimes also as a result of a usability benefit from all windows of the same type always being the same size for instant recognizability (which increases the pain of resizing them by mistake, as they then become less recognizable). Examples of the former include properties windows, preference dialogs, and most individual control panels; examples of the latter include alerts and progress windows. Almost everyone subscribed to this mailing list (including me) will routinely underestimate the average cost of making a window resizable - -- the probability of resizing it accidentally, the confusion caused as a result
Re: [Ayatana] Unity panel
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Michal Strba wrote on 12/10/11 19:38: ... This suggestion is only about design nothing more. I think that unity panel in ubuntu looks bit boring. It looks (of course it isn't functionally identical) as panel in 10.04+. I think that it should match with launcher (transparency and style). Of course with this will be a design problem with maximized apps because window title merges with panel. When an app is maximized it should be same as now it. What do you think about it? ... That would make menus very difficult to read. - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk6XDpMACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecrTqwCgnhJsosRjXfZcjhwBmdaUDI1z x0oAoJNaIUconAO6JXsac1d7BDfwm3bl =6HYD -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] What's up with all the non-resizable windows?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Stefanos A. wrote on 13/10/11 15:09: I just installed 11.10, just to be assaulted by ugly non-resizable windows. Why, oh why? Off-hand, I recall the official installer, which cannot be resized when the show details area does not fit inside the window. This happens in the downloading packages and installing packages parts of the installation - since you can't resize the window, you cannot see what actions are being taken by the installer. This seems to be http://launchpad.net/bugs/149911, which was reported in 2007, so it's not specific to 11.10. The new System Settings control panel also fits the bill. This is *especially* aggravating, since the window is a tad too big for a 1366x768 or 1280x800 screen (that's what most laptops use). Today, I had an issue with a misconfigured keyboard shortcut, so I opened an internet article that described the fix. In such occasions, I arrange the browser window and the configuration window side-by-side, so I can refer to the article while fixing the issue. Or that's what I used to do, since the new settings window *cannot be resized* to fit side-by-side on my monitor. It's always there, taking up lots of space, *covering* the article with the instructions I need. Like most dialogs, many of the System Settings panels are designed with a particular size in mind. For the window to be manually resizable would be inappropriate. If the window is too large for an important proportion of screens, that's a bug that should be fixed, not an excuse for making the window resizable. What is this new fad? Microsoft abandoned modal/non-resizable windows after WinXP. That isn't true. Apple just added more resize borders in their latest OS. That made it easier to resize windows that are already resizable. It has nothing to do with which windows are resizable in the first place. - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk6XIsQACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecpIJgCgyXr96izF1KjCL6SbwH2+roxN 5q0AoK2/nEHxyNxhAbErrH695DcI6QEr =lI8C -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Session management in the dash
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Carl Ansell wrote on 10/10/11 17:12: A recent update placed logout, shut down and restart controls into the dash. I think it would be useful to have these located in the bottom right corner of the dash rather than in the lens results, as this would make them accessible when using any lens. ... I like that idea. That would save those commands from being jumbled up with other search results -- you wouldn't need to search for them at all. It would mean we wouldn't need the device menu any more, which would save space in the menu bar. Least importantly, it would be more consistent with other OSes, and therefore easier for people migrating. - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk6Viw4ACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecqnOgCgoVkAI/1qndXGgMzW/rLMM/or 2AMAn3DYwFlxq5snmpu7IhbxCT3EVv0Q =KmI6 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] something wrong ??
Mikkel Kamstrup Erlandsen wrote on 03/10/11 14:16: On 10/03/2011 03:06 PM, Mikkel Kamstrup Erlandsen wrote: On 10/03/2011 01:26 PM, Anup Verma wrote: ... Let us search for MultiGet. When I write Mult in the search MultiGet appears at the 6th position. As soon as I add 'i', I see that surprisingly, MultiGet now appears at 10th position with some rather irrelevant options before it. ... Looking more into this I realise what the real problem is. The problem lies in applications which contain the term multi as a single token. Fx. applications which incorrectly spells multimedia as multi-media. None of them do. This latter form becomes indexed as two words multi and media. This gives and exact match on the word multi when searching and this ranks higher than a prefix-match on words such as MultiGet. Academics aside - the fix is still to make sure that any form of match in the app title scores higher than matches in the description. ... I expect that would make things even worse, as MultiGet (which at least has multi- in its description) would then face stiffer competition from Auto Multiple Choice, Multiple Screens, Multilingual Terminal, Multiplication Puzzle, Multimedia Systems Selector, etc. But if you'd like to try, feel free to make your own branch, and compare its results with 5.0 on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter/SearchTesting. -- mpt ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Ayatana] Search algorithm in Ubuntu Software Center
Anup Verma wrote on 03/10/11 12:26: Friends, don't you find any problem with the algorithm used to search in the software center. Giving you an example: Let us search for MultiGet. When I write Mult in the search MultiGet appears at the 6th position. As soon as I add 'i', I see that surprisingly, MultiGet now appears at 10th position with some rather irrelevant options before it. Not understandable... ... These are the items that appear for multi before MultiGet: * Qtractor, a multi-track sequencer * qutIM, a multi-protocol IM client * Teeworlds, an online multi-player platform 2D shooter * BasKet, a multi-purpose note-taking application for KDE * ROXTerm, Multi-tabbed GTK/VTE terminal emulator * Babiloo, dictionary viewer with multi-languages support * Jokosher, Simply and easily create multi-track audio * Empathy, GNOME multi-protocol chat and call client * ACM, a multi-player aerial combat simulation. Though USC does take into account the possibility that the last word you typed is only part of a word, it gives more weight to results where that last word is a complete word. And it can't tell the difference between a complete word and a hyphenated prefix like multi-. All of those higher results use multi- in their summary or synopsis. MultiGet uses multi- only in its description. So that's why more items appear above MultiGet for multi than for mult: because as soon as you type the i, the packages that use multi-anything start being more important than those which use multianything. And the packages that use multi-anything in their title or summary are treated as more important than those that use multi in their name *or* multi- in their description. If there is a bug here, it is that BasKet, ROXTerm, and Empathy use multi- words only in their package synopsis, which USC doesn't show at all -- so it's not obvious why they're being weighted as they are. I've reported that now. http://launchpad.net/bugs/865294 Thanks -- mpt ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana-dev] Unified inputmethod/keyboarlayout
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jesper Lundgren wrote on 24/09/11 20:27: ... Now if I want to add korean It becomes a bit more complicated and confusing. If I add korean in keyboard layout I can only type in english using that layout. To get Korean I need to go into language and support and enable ibus and then add korean to ibus. now I am suddenly doing two things I can switch between input method if I want to use korean or chinese etc and then switch keyboard layout when I want to use english/swedish. Is there some way this could be unified to make it less confusing and easier to switch between langauges? (possibly use ibus for everything?) ... This is the basic idea behind the unified keyboard menu. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KeyboardSettings#menu Unfortunately I have not had time yet to complete a draft of that specification. as extra information I could add that windows also has similar problem. For korean they have a separate inputmethod that in itself has english and korean so when switching to korean layout I first need to do a 3rd level switch to get it to be korean characters instead of latin. With all operating systems I have used I would say OSX and Opensolaris are the easiest ones for using multiple keyboard languages. http://blogs.oracle.com/sunwg11nprg/entry/switching_keyboard_layout_in_solaris ... I've added that link to the wiki page. Thanks - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk6AlVwACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecoDFACggTOCzPImUqWg3+FwelIVgOBE LoAAn1xzknzQS0lWT67NFW2QsGflnMey =BHBW -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana-dev Post to : ayatana-dev@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana-dev More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] make adding ppas easier
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Scott Kitterman wrote on 06/09/11 11:05: S. Christian Collins s.chriscoll...@gmail.com wrote: ... What would be ideal, IMO, would be a check box in the software center for each application that would say something like: Always update to the newest program version available (may be less stable). If anyone sees anything in Ubuntu that suggests using something less stable, please report a bug. :-) I don't know how this would work under the hood (selective access to the backports repository, perhaps), but it would make life much easier for the person who absolutely must have the latest version of Ardour or GIMP, and would help discourage people from adding potentially dangerous PPAs to their systems. Under the hood, this is how backports works now. You have to explicitly pick to install a package from backports (it's enabled by default in oneiric since enabling it doesn't cause packages from backports to be installed) and once you've installed from backports you'll automatically get any updated backports. I'm not sure how well this is exposed in the U/I yet. ... It isn't exposed in the UI yet. I've designed it, now someone just needs to implement it. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter#updates - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk5zT1QACgkQ6PUxNfU6eco8mgCfX9jBWEWEd/QGRCi59c3916qe lVMAnjjpB9F7lt6SCtcyhmdQyTx05kHA =HX2c -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Software center icon needs designers minds, and new humanity desktop methafor.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 David wrote on 07/09/11 18:00: I see many criticisms yet a lack of proposals for a suitable replacement. Without an explaination, people could dismiss that icon thinking I don't want to buy applications, I'll go to the internet and see where I can get some free .exes :-p There was a variation of that issue with the original icon: April testing: The Software Centre is still not recognized and, during testing, was mistaken for ‘systems control’. http://design.canonical.com/2011/04/unity-benchmark-usability-april-2011/ ... It's not clear from the writeup, unfortunately, but that wasn't referring to the icon. It was referring to the contents of the window, which looked rather like the Control Panel in Windows. I'm pretty confident nobody will get that impression from USC5. - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk52IcMACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecqitgCgxr33L207acz4oRyEpBuKz08f FB4AnjJ2krZAAFiidnJXdtV8xYnpkVsq =WHFR -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Ubuntu Applications
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jonathan Meek wrote on 07/09/11 19:33: Actually, I intended something more in depth than that. I asked one of the designers and am going to attempt to begin work on a comprehensive HIG. Everything about the design needs to be thought out, not just 'integrate with this.' The problem with this undertaking is that there are so few applications that can be considered Ubuntu applications. Less and more than you would think. (Though, I've only heard from one person, and his design choices may not be the consensus of the entire design team) ... I'd hope it isn't. ;-) But Thorsten Wilms was right: what will developers make out of it? Interface guidelines are useless unless they actually change developers' behavior. For example, Microsoft has extensive Windows UX guidelines on MSDN, but given all the copying Apple worry in this thread, it seems nobody here has even heard of them. Now, imagine these responses from application developers if you wrote some interface guidelines for Ubuntu: * Ubuntu design guidelines? I've never heard of them. * Jonathan Meek? I've never heard of him. Why should I do what he says? * Ubuntu? Ubuntu's just a distro, what business do they have setting 'guidelines' for applications? * I use Fedora for development, why should I care what Ubuntu wants? * Ubuntu? You want me to take advice from the people who designed Unity? Hah! * I read a couple of pages but it was really boring. * Gnome already has guidelines, this is just another example of Ubuntu trying to go their own way. Shame on them. Improving the design of Ubuntu applications is a design problem in itself. And even if those criticisms are unfair, they're going to come up. So if you want to make a difference, you need to have a way to minimize, or be able to address, each of those criticisms. Provisionally, Mr. Gifford is correct. The are going to be started on, and presented for peer review. I'm debating how to go about this now less than I am whether to go about it at all. I would like some opinions to feedback into this. I know what the designer said were good designed Ubuntu applications, but what do people here think are some? And why do you think that? (This includes, looks, structure, and behavior as well as integration.) ... This is the biggie. If guidelines are to be credible, they need to be either self-evidently logical, demonstrated to succeed in real Ubuntu applications, and/or written by people who designed successful Ubuntu applications. The Windows, Mac, and iOS guidelines can all use applications designed by the OS vendor as examples of what to do. But there are very few applications targeted for Ubuntu first, let alone Ubuntu exclusively. I think guidelines will be premature until that changes. - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk52NFkACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecrfYACgu152ebybXC0EsGhgSQ/nBtU0 g5kAnixYzKSiFcdmQjkxVCmZUR56wAgB =0RD1 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Balsamiq
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 a.gra...@gmail.com wrote on 04/09/11 14:22: ... thanks to a kind reply from Jono to a comment I did on one of his posts, I discovered Balsamiq. I installed it and tested a bit and later I discovered this: http://www.mail-archive.com/launchpad-users@lists.launchpad.net/msg01068.html Since I was going to use it to prepare some mockups for Unity-2d I did think I could use it and I used the serial provided. At the beginning it worked, telling me that the software was correctly registered, then when I started it again it said my demo period was expired and trying to use that serial again gave me an error: this serial key has been blacklisted Is the Balsamiq offer no more valid for Ubuntu contributors? It was never valid for Ubuntu contributors. It was for Canonical's Launchpad developers. It was posted to the launchpad-users@ mailing list by mistake. Do we have an update serial to use? ... You can get a license for Balsamiq Mockups at http://balsamiq.com/buy. Cheers - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk5kpvUACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecok1QCeL9m+P3vvN8ZyliQHs5R96gk6 VSEAnRR2L9+jqVzoYBFtXot6+YXaZk8S =UuoN -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Thunderbird needs tighter panel integration
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Carl Ansell wrote on 03/09/11 22:37: At present, the only use for the mail icon in the panel is to set up thunderbird (for email anyway). Once an account has been set up, it would be useful for thunderbird to check emails in the background, and turn blue when new emails are available. This would mean the user does not need to keep thunderbird open to check emails and justify the use of a mail icon in the panel. It should at least list the accounts that have already been set up, rather than just showing 'set up mail'. ... It shouldn't show Set Up Mail when you already have. If it does, please report a bug. - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk5kqccACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecrvZACfRPBBKLkBkP17xTMBO3/4pKuj AwoAnisSZ/Q//NOuzyUcr51h3WF8Hit3 =1KRD -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] make adding ppas easier
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Kévin PEIGNOT wrote on 04/09/11 13:04: I don't agree. PPA should be used only to install unstable / unsupported features. I think the problem is that a lot of very good programs aren't in the default repository and need to be installed via PPA. PPA installation shouldn't be too easy for newbies, because it can be risky for their system, even if they don't realize that. ... The Ubuntu Developer site is now just about ready to solve the problem of good programs not being in the default repository. https://myapps.developer.ubuntu.com/ So now is a good time to think about how we can make Ubuntu safer by making adding PPAs harder. - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk5krAsACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecog+wCeNJ0yZCexGxSR0vYG9z4ObEC0 OsoAmwYmLbOS7pX6oYAAW4w9oYyDhvHF =E114 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] make adding ppas easier
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 a.gra...@gmail.com wrote on 05/09/11 12:42: ... On 5 September 2011 13:01, Matthew Paul Thomas m...@canonical.com ... So now is a good time to think about how we can make Ubuntu safer by making adding PPAs harder. don't you think it's already a bit hard for new users to add a PPA to Ubuntu? Indeed I don't. Lot of my friends that use Ubuntu don't know that PAAs exist, That's good, unless they're aspiring application developers. (And if they are, the developer Web site should educate them about how to set up a PPA.) imagine if they know how to add them. Then even more Ubuntu users would be vulnerable to both sides of Hanlon's Razor -- PPAs that messed up people's systems either accidentally or intentionally. To pick a famous example, on June 25th OMG Ubuntu announced a PPA for Bumblebee. http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/06/bumblebee-gets-a-ppa-brings-nvidia-optimus-graphics-switching-to-ubuntu/ Only three weeks beforehand, Bumblebee had been deleting /usr on installation. https://github.com/MrMEEE/bumblebee/commit/a047be85247755cdbe0acce6#diff-1 What if it had been not three weeks before, but three weeks after? Removing the possibility to have a similar command: sudo add-apt-repository ppa:unity-2d-team/unity-2d-daily would be a big regression, imho. ... Probably. But one possibility (just as an example) would be to remove the ppa: pseudo-protocol, requiring people to use the equivalent launchpad.net URL instead. - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk5kuuMACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecoOIQCdE55CL0C049BgyHlTvG3+fTLw Bf8AoKlNongvnD0p17ZaYc9jANA9pseT =Bp/F -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] White text in lenses doesn't work well with light background images.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jo-Erlend Schinstad wrote on 27/08/11 04:35: It's fantastically cool how the lenses background color changes with the desktop wallpaper. But when the wallpaper is a light one, then the text in the lenses become difficult to read. For example, Oneiric comes with the «Touch the light» wallpaper. At present, on my laptop, when I'm using that wallpaper, I'm completely unable to read any text in the dash or other lenses. http://launchpad.net/bugs/824916 So the text needs to change with the wallpaper dominant color as well, although I don't know exactly how. ... Here would be a good place to compare proposals for how to fix the problem. - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk5c5I0ACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecqsXACfY8vEQ8qyIGIlWPBfgz4uph3b z44An1qfUnXgXZizu/aVSFIzuiVlokR9 =l8pv -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Hybrid (panel/launcher) top left corner button
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Eylem Koca wrote on 27/08/11 03:49: The current design is justified by the motivation to move the window control buttons to the top left. Apparently, the usability tests for 11.04 design showed that the window controls are better on the top left, so they moved the Ubuntu button out of that location. ... No, the usability test didn't show anything like that. (How could it have, when the test environment used only one placement?) What it did show was that, except for a bug, everyone managed to close a window. However, 4 of 11 people clicked the Me menu thinking it might be the close button. - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk5c57wACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecqBwACdGwSiKNTl4R4mGFP2XxM/VNSk LS0An2j+62m/nhfiU7eQovY2naYb0A3T =5qUv -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana-dev] The return of the ellipsis
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Ted Gould wrote on 20/08/11 05:10: ... So it seems regularly about this time in the cycle we start getting bugs about ... in our code instead of …. Seems that they always creep back in, and that's very annoying. How do we keep bugs out? Through testing! I've created a small test[1] to test for the presence of ... at the end of user visible strings in the code, and to fail if it finds any. The test is cleverly called test-ellipsis and it uses the POT file from gettext to look at all the user visible strings (since all user visible strings are translatable). Awesome! I remember discussing something similar with Neil Patel after UDS Maverick. I'm writing so that people know a bit about it when it fails, but also to ask if there's anything else that I should add with a similar methodology before I replicate this snippet across Ayatana projects. ... Space before an ellipsis at the end of a string. Wrong: Sound Settings … Right: Sound Settings… Ascii apostrophe. Wrong: In the clock's menu, show: Right: In the clock’s menu, show: Ascii quote mark. Wrong: 'Are you sure you want to delete %s and all its settings?' Right: 'Are you sure you want to delete “%s” and all its settings?' Backtick. Wrong: Authentication is needed to run `%s` as the super user Right: Authentication is needed to run ”%s” as the super user (ignoring, for the moment, the other problems with that string) System policy prevents. Wrong: System policy prevents querying keyboard settings. Right: To access keyboard settings, you need to authenticate. Wrong: System policy prevents formatting this device. Right: To format this device, you need to authenticate. Others are more context-sensitive, and therefore harder to scan for: Period at the end of a checkbox or radio button label. Wrong: ☑ Automatically shorten pasted URLs. Right: ☑ Automatically shorten pasted URLs Always at the start of a checkbox label. Wrong: ☑ Always show the tab bar Right: Show the tab bar: ◉ Always ○ When there’s more than one tab Enable at the start of a checkbox label. Wrong: ☑ Enable logging of conversations to disk Right: ☑ Save chat logs Don’t at the start of a checkbox label. Wrong: ☑ Don’t attach connectors to text objects Right: ☐ Attach connectors to text objects It would be super cool if this kind of automated interface design testing could be applied to all graphical software shipped by default. - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk5RKMsACgkQ6PUxNfU6eco38gCgnSEEG2Zsk9o5dHlQQSXIsj14 0DYAn0ziaLUPxKldhC89ueg0QgDzv6BR =4V02 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana-dev Post to : ayatana-dev@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana-dev More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana-commits] [Merge] lp:~jbicha/indicator-session/add-account-settings into lp:indicator-session
Review: Approve design Good idea. I've updated the specification to match. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeviceMenuAndUserMenu?action=diffrev2=9rev1=8 -- https://code.launchpad.net/~jbicha/indicator-session/add-account-settings/+merge/70619 Your team ayatana-commits is subscribed to branch lp:indicator-session. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana-commits Post to : ayatana-commits@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana-commits More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana-commits] [Merge] lp:~jbicha/indicator-datetime/spell-out-and into lp:indicator-datetime
Review: Needs Fixing design +1 to using real ellipses! Thanks. For vs. and, I think it's better for menus, buttons, and window titles to use , because it makes the other words in the label easier to scan. (The same reason that those labels have most words capitalized, but not short non-terminal articles and prepositions.) That's why the Time Date settings panel itself uses . -- https://code.launchpad.net/~jbicha/indicator-datetime/spell-out-and/+merge/70604 Your team ayatana-commits is subscribed to branch lp:indicator-datetime. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana-commits Post to : ayatana-commits@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana-commits More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana-commits] [Merge] lp:~jbicha/indicator-datetime/spell-out-and into lp:indicator-datetime
I don't know if anyone intends to, but I think it would be an improvement. -- https://code.launchpad.net/~jbicha/indicator-datetime/spell-out-and/+merge/70604 Your team ayatana-commits is subscribed to branch lp:indicator-datetime. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana-commits Post to : ayatana-commits@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana-commits More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] What about the Dash on Oneiric Ocelot ?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Niklas Rosenqvist wrote on 02/08/11 11:07: Hi, I've earlier suggested removing the lenses from the launcher and integrating into the dash main page instead. I made a mockup but without lens titles which obviously would be required: http://i.imgur.com/76Jge.jpg ... An obvious problem there: it uses the word Lenses. That's jargon that users should never see. How could you design it without referring to them by name at all? - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk47308ACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecpQWQCfeugv7jPpPnUC0qO619jHV070 e+kAn1B5Koi8rOlTtEm42zAZv3e8NnLN =lzmC -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Comments on the Device User Menu specs
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Mark Shuttleworth wrote on 02/08/11 09:17: Hi Jeremy, thanks for your mail. On 02/08/11 00:35, Jeremy Bicha wrote: Since I help out on the Documentation Team, I value clear user interface terminology so that users, powerusers, and maybe even developers can use the same, understandable language. The old session menu name became unclear when System Settings was added to it, but I have to say that device menu is an even worse name. I strongly prefer calling this menu the system menu since the items here are generally system actions or configurations. Also, it's parallel to the power menu having a power settings button and the sound menu having a sound settings button. +1 from me. I'd like to hear MPT's opinion on this, but if he raises no objections consider that an approval to move forward. If he does, I'll be glad to resolve it one way or the other. Unlike the sound, messaging, and clock menus, this menu isn't referred to by name in any external settings panels. So the effect of any name will be quite small as long as the Ubuntu help is well-hidden. That said, I see a benefit and a drawback of calling it the system menu. The benefit is that it will be a little more familiar for people who didn't use 11.04, but who did use an earlier version that had a System menu containing similar items. (For example, people upgrading from 10.04 LTS to 12.04 LTS.) The drawback is that it will seem awkward that we have a system menu with a title that is an icon, but isn't the Ubuntu logo. http://pad.lv/815077 was reported about the lack of a Restart button. It appears as though the spec is that Restart will only be shown if restart-required updates have not been applied. A typical user will want to restart to Windows or OS X. A fair number of developers have another Ubuntu install or Linux distribution they would like to reboot to use. Requiring users to log out before they restart seems to make a common usecase more frustrating. If the desire is to reduce menu option clutter, I suggest keeping the option as Shut Down (or Power Off might be a good descriptive alternative). And then use a pop-up like Gnome Shell to allow Restart, Shutdown (automatic after 60 seconds), or Cancel. See http://i.imgur.com/lLPoL.png +1 also. ... Last week I saw visual design work for a new shutdown screen that had no Restart button. So I checked this with John, and discovered that I had misunderstood his design. The intent is for there to be no unprompted Restart command, in the shutdown dialog or anywhere else. The only restart interface is supposed to be in prompts, for example in the Update Manager dialog telling you that updates requiring restart have completed. - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk43+REACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecrg8QCfa+T6ln5pSU9Q+QzaHjBcQeGd zDcAn3Zn5UcyOsgyA7iLeuyoGxqxFc+G =TgDE -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Oneiric Dark Toolbars waste vertical space - what was the point of Unity?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 nick rundy wrote on 22/07/11 18:08: The newly implemented Dark Toolbars to Oneiric have left me wondering if the Developers have forgotten one of the driving principles for Unity--to reclaim vertical space? Look at the following comparison between Natty as it is today and Oneiric with Dark Toolbars. In Oneiric, not only has writing been placed underneath the icons (taking vertical space) but there is now a huge/thick vertical-space-wasting Dark Toolbar with only one item on it: the search box. COME ON! ... First, that is bad design from the Gnome designers, not the Ubuntu designers. If I was designing that window, I would -- and did -- put Back, Forward, and Home buttons in the toolbar, not just a search field. https://live.gnome.org/SystemSettings?action=AttachFiledo=viewtarget=sketches-p1.jpg Second, it's nothing whatsoever to do with the toolbar being dark. System Settings has exactly the same problem in themes where the toolbar is light. - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk42sgsACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecqQ5ACggRlX7IVr6orTqjxZcSJ3Oegx Z3UAoJGzsNFjrEG4q7OPqNbdS5FOgRhj =svLJ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Fwd: Place Shut Down as the last entry in the Sessions-Menu for Oneiric and beyond
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jo-Erlend Schinstad wrote on 27/07/11 16:05: ... On 27 July 2011 13:39, Matthew Paul Thomas m...@canonical.com wrote: We have no evidence that a non-trivial proportion of people notice differently colored icons in the menu bar. You might say that's an assumption, based on personal experience and observation. Sure, it's not a scientific test, and I only have tested it on 10-20 people. But I noticed it the first time it changed color and I was surprised by how effective that really is. Yes, there seems to be a huge variation in the degree to which people notice small things on the screen. The sort of people who contribute to Ubuntu, for example, often find a colored icon in a panel quite enough to notify them of software updates. They can't understand how anyone would possibly not see it. But in user tests, nobody does. I don't see how they'd be more likely to search for them in the menu bar. * the indicators are visible. The launcher is not. * bluetooth is displayed as an indicator, not as a launcher. Fair points. * you often have many usb devices connected. * devices need a description. Menus as suitable for that. Launchers aren't. Those two don't seem to be related to the question of whether people will look to disconnect/eject a device in the first place. Personally, I would find more inviting a launcher that I could put anything into -- applications, bookmarks, documents, folders, contacts, whatever. I can do that with the Mac OS X Dock and (mostly) with the Windows 7 taskbar. Interesting. Wouldn't that make the launcher notifications (usb, etc) even more difficult to find? I don't know what you mean by launcher notifications. I thought I would want to keep all of my most used applications on the launcher and that I would temporarily move icons up and down according to what I'm doing so that I could rearrange keyboard shortcuts. Turns out I do, but in a much smaller degree than I had expected. The first six launchers are completely static. The next four is more dynamic, used for documents I'm working on right now, but don't need to launch using keyboard shortcuts. That works well for me, because then I launch and switch to my most used applications using only the left hand, and the shortcuts get very familiar. The work I'm doing right now changes, so I have to look up the shortcut number in any case, meaning that it doesn't bother me that I have to use two hands. In that regard, it would be nice if we could make a certain window type ungroupable, so that you could easily switch between open writer documents, for instance. ... Yes, there may be a useful distinction between document-based applications (for which it's best to show open documents in the launcher) and other types (for which it's best to show the application itself). - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk4xKu0ACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecp7YQCfe8pC5/MqCOKG02IsuftUsYOy xecAnA+cjjGb83kOueieNcK+4Qsf6Tyf =DN65 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Place Shut Down as the last entry in the Sessions-Menu for Oneiric and beyond
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Evan Huus wrote on 27/07/11 17:21: On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 7:39 AM, Matthew Paul Thomas ... This is what Havoc Pennington called the misguided 'hmm, maybe I can autogenerate my GUI' stage. http://www106.pair.com/rhp/free-software-ui.html Artificial intelligence researchers work on many things, but I'm not aware of any who are working on the problem of making an auto-generated settings interface anywhere near as understandable as a human-designed one. One project that is already sort of doing this is Wireshark. Individual protocols (TCP, IP, etc.) register their settings with very simple API calls along the lines of register_boolean(bool, Name, Description). Wireshark does the rest behind the scenes. The result is certainly usable, although probably not as usable as it could be. They're located under Edit-Preferences-Protocols in Wireshark if anyone actually wants to take a look. ... That's a great example of how terrible it would be if applied to every application. To be fair, there are several mistakes in the Wireshark presentation that could be fixed even while keeping it automated: checkbox labels are to the left when they should be to the right, numeric fields accept non-numeric characters, 1-of-many options are presented using radio menus even when there is plenty of room for radio buttons instead, the controls use tooltips when text-based controls never should, and so on. But there are many parts of that interface that just couldn't be designed well without a human. The ASN1 panel, for example, includes: * three fields for entering multiple port values, with no help in separating them * labels for those three fields which are mostly redundant with each other, because the presentation engine can't know how to (or even that it should) factor out the common words * a field for entering a file path, with no button for opening a file picker * a checkbox for Show full names, with no hint of what the alternative is. It actually reminds me a lot of WordPress 1.1, which also had an auto-generated settings interface. I designed a manual layout, and Matt Mullenweg implemented the redesign for version 1.2. It's far from the only reason WordPress then became wildly popular ... but it probably helped just a little bit. - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk4xM54ACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecrICQCeLijkt0aZCExLNJz3a2er2keF 84kAn2A1IpeAIsHUVSfmzllFBLBuF8do =+O5u -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Place Shut Down as the last entry in the Sessions-Menu for Oneiric and beyond
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jo-Erlend Schinstad wrote on 06/07/11 17:45: On 6 July 2011 13:04, Omer Akram om26er.l...@gmail.com wrote: ... Good news, in Oneiric system settings will be removed from the SessionMenu and an icon for it will be placed in the launcher by default, It'll probably happen around alpha-3 I guess :-) That is not good news at all. The launcher is being abused. It should not have a list of mounted devices and it should not have an icon for system settings. Mounted devices should have an indicator and system settings should have an icon in the dash. That is to say, it should have its own lense. Even if the latter was true, it wouldn't unclutter the launcher at all, because every lens has its own launcher item. With regard to mounted devices, I feel strongly that they should have their own indicator for these reasons: * Users don't understand why it's important to unmount them before unplugging them, but they will do so by mistake and discover that it does no harm. By using an indicator, we can use a green icon when the user unmounts them correctly and a red one when they don't, leading them onto the right path. Poeople do want to do the right thing. We have no evidence that a non-trivial proportion of people notice differently colored icons in the menu bar. * Placing mounted devices in the launcher makes the launcher cluttered and people will not be bothered to search for them in order to unmount, for instance when they're in a hurry or is under stress. I don't see how they'd be more likely to search for them in the menu bar. * The launcher should be for apps. Trash, desktop and window switching are valid exceptions, but it must not become a slippery slope. The launcher is only effective when it only does what the user does often. If it becomes filled with other stuff, then it will become less inviting. Personally, I would find more inviting a launcher that I could put anything into -- applications, bookmarks, documents, folders, contacts, whatever. I can do that with the Mac OS X Dock and (mostly) with the Windows 7 taskbar. I feel that configurations should be placed in a lense with an icon in the dash for these reasons: * Configuring and using are different things. So far we've only had Preferences and Administration, but this has to change. We should reach for a way to configure all applications from the same place. You will not access Firefox' settings from Firefox' menus, but from TCS (The Configuration Screen). iOS tried aggregating application settings into a separate configuration screen, and it didn't work. Example quote: We received several emails a week from people asking for features that were already part of our application. We finally gave up and moved the settings into the application. We felt vindicated when we saw all the 5 star reviews about the amazing new features we added, all of which had been there in previous releases. http://bjango.com/articles/settingsapp/ The settings will be available from GSettings and therefore it is no longer necessary for each application to provide their own, non-uniform, config dialogs. They will still be available, of course, but users of Ubuntu will not have to search for them. They will just press the Ubuntu button, tap or click Configure and select the application they want to configure. Unity should provide a unified way of accessing all common features of all applications. There is no unity without unification. This is quite obviously the right way to do this, so we should prepare for it as soon as possible, even though some applications won't be configurable that way -- yet. ... This is what Havoc Pennington called the misguided 'hmm, maybe I can autogenerate my GUI' stage. http://www106.pair.com/rhp/free-software-ui.html Artificial intelligence researchers work on many things, but I'm not aware of any who are working on the problem of making an auto-generated settings interface anywhere near as understandable as a human-designed one. - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk4v+PsACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecpmjgCdHyFlKMM3okOPv/ZwNpvhzhng fCkAoKIcMBls6LVn+vzBDHT8hJXqBkIm =5Ir6 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] indicators vs launchers
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 frederik.nn...@gmail.com wrote on 16/06/11 11:54: in Unity, shouldn't the Messaging menu indicator appear only once a messaging application is up and running? i have neither a mail app nor an instant messaging app running at the moment, still the envelope appears in the panel. While it improves discoverability for the launchers in the menu, it makes discoverability as an indicator of transient events worse. it also clutters the users mental model of how to launch apps and how to use indicators in relation. The messaging menu contains launchers because it would be weird for it not to. The menu needs to label messages by application, and it would be frustrating if those labels weren't usable to launch or switch to the applications. i'd suggest put Chat, Mail and Broadcast into the Unity Launcher and add a confirmation dialog to the removal option (Keep In Launcher). So when somebody unticks Keep In Launcher, she is asked to confirm that. ... What would a confirmation dialog have to do with this issue? - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk4VyF0ACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecpBuACgg2RQG7wqvZU39fCOKQkh0bVb fZUAniEYU+LjtGLgj5sBWiopfR8ViXLF =USs6 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Global menu in Oneiric Ocelot (11.10)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jeremy Nickurak wrote on 14/06/11 19:33: On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 09:27, Matthew Paul Thomas m...@canonical.com ... That isn't correct. I specified how it could work with focus follows mouse in May 2010, months before Natty even had a name. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MenuBar#focus-follows-mouse Except that's missing design work too. There's no concept of the active window anywhere. There's no visual cue of what the active window is. Until that article, the concept didn't exist. Defining things that didn't previously exist is part of the point of a feature specification. :-) It's inconsistent, because the window that you might be working with is no longer the window that has the global menu. Imagine that you have 2 windows that don't overlap, and you've focused one by mouse-over. There's now *zero* indication that the global menu isn't related to the focused window. Select a destructive action like File:Revert or Delete is now a very scary and unpredictable concept. ... Yes, that would be the price of wanting to use focus-follows-mouse in an environment that has a global menu bar: you would have to remember which is the active window for yourself. If you don't want to do that, don't use it. - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk34wBwACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecppgACgn32eYDbgTUAGUeewmDx8Jo2y I7oAn3Fd78SFjP2eYQCWFwzzRzYBiPH3 =cg8X -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Global menu in Oneiric Ocelot (11.10)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Niklas Rosenqvist wrote on 18/05/11 09:02: ... There are also more situations where the global menu works like a crippled narwhal. E.g. when working with programs as GIMP. GIMP has one main application window and several smaller windows with tools and such and if you have one of the smaller windows active you can't reach the menu, even if they are a part of the same application. You must target the main window and then you can reach the menu. That isn't an unfixable design flaw, it's just a bug. http://launchpad.net/bugs/646029 (I realize that to users, those two situations are indistinguishable.) Niklas Rosenqvist wrote on 19/05/11 10:15: 2011/5/19 Florian Diesch die...@spamfence.net ... It's about impossible to use focus follows mouse and multiple windows with the global menu, which makes it unusable for me. This is a great example for when the global menu isn't such a great idea as everyone thought before Natty. ... That isn't correct. I specified how it could work with focus follows mouse in May 2010, months before Natty even had a name. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MenuBar#focus-follows-mouse - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk33fdUACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecoZPQCffDfLAaqKPGBHpNb1rdD68bA0 cBQAnRw41XrcmhsiTBwK2pgVdCiiiQmt =OMsm -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Windows 8 and OS X Lion observations
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Ed Lin wrote on 10/06/11 23:57: ... On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 1:16 PM, Matthew Paul Thomas m...@canonical.com wrote: I don't understand why you think a single OS for multiple form factors counts as getting something right. The success of iOS, Mac OS X, and Android strongly suggests otherwise. Reinventing the wheel and so on. This is about the underlaying architecture, not the interface. I see. Since this is ayatana@ I assumed you meant the interface design. ... iWork for Mac uses menus heavily. That's one of the reasons iWork for iPad has fewer features: there are fewer places to put them. iWork on OS X makes heavy use of the toolbar and other window level elements which can be a lot smaller on a pointer based interface. That too, though in this case the main toolbar's buttons are about the same size by default. You don't *have* to use the menu bar at all for most tasks. From a cursory user survey File-Save is by far the most used menu entry. But as mentioned Lion is going to change that. For more advanced tasks than fonts, headers, tables and embedding images (uhm, what's left?) one might still have to use the nested menu (or just the help-search box). You would need to see the distribution curve to know for sure. For example, Paste, Save, Copy, Undo, and Bold accounted for 32% of all command use in Microsoft Office 2003. http://blogs.msdn.com/b/jensenh/archive/2005/11/07/489864.aspx What proportion of command use requires menus depends on how many, and which, functions you put in the toolbar. But Apple applications, iWork included, have never had toolbar buttons for Paste, Save, Copy, or Undo -- perhaps on the grounds that learning a toolbar button wouldn't help you in the many applications that have those same commands but don't have toolbars. So either you learn the keyboard combos, or you use the menus. And anyone on this mailing list is likely to overestimate how many people learn the keyboard combos. (Relatedly, I have a hypothesis that not having a global menu bar to populate makes application developers more likely to forget to implement Undo, Select All, Copy, and Paste when they would be useful.) Thinking ahead and more people will know iWork from iOS than from OS X and generally they learn based interfaces before the mouse/keyboard (i.e. children being introduced to technology...) What will this mean for their expectations and the mentioned intuitiveness? Menu - Dodo? PCs will be used for specialized tasks where tablets and phones are too simple or clumsy, so they will need interfaces that are less simple. I covered this briefly in my talk at UDS. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oWN9qLwEkM#t=24m1s The App Store is not a typical application. First it is extremely simple, and second it is based on the Web page model where people scroll to access not just content but functions too. For example, you need to scroll to the bottom of a page in the App Store to change the country. In a typical application, analogous functions are typically menu items instead (e.g. Tools Language in LibreOffice). Which is a general trend for the better or worse. Webapps, Google, Chrome OS but also so called native apps that in reality are a pay walled mobile web service. Also it fits perfectly into Apple's vision of what they understand under a web company, err walled garden (see John Gruber and the critiques). I'm not sure I want to know how you think scrolling interfaces relate to walled gardens! Regardless, scrolling interfaces are not a general trend on any native platform that I've seen. As ever, they're a last resort when you don't know how much interface will appear inside a container (for example, the Windows Control Panel, or the Job Options in Ubuntu's Printer Properties), or when the screen size is extremely small (as on the iPhone). I am both amused and disheartened when people assume that emulating Time Machine or Versions is a matter of putting a frontend on btrfs. btrfs is neither necessary nor sufficient for that. It is not necessary, because Time Machine and Versions are implemented using basically the same HFS+ filesystem that Mac OS has been using since 1998. And it is not sufficient, because for both features the hard part, 90 percent of the work, is the user interface and the application APIs. Oh, I was playing into your hands. So, what's the excuse now? ;) Switch to Linux/Ubuntu, the only desktop OS that doesn't care about your data? ... For Ubuntu, it's because it would take longer than six months to design and implement, so nobody ever bothers. (I covered that problem in my UDS talk too.) But Windows doesn't have an easy-to-use answer to those backup or versioning questions either. - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
Re: [Ayatana] Windows 8 and OS X Lion observations
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 GonzO wrote on 08/06/11 21:59: On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 4:46 PM, Ed Lin edlin...@gmail.com wrote: ... Dock: I haven't seen an HD version but it looks like even the subtle hints of running apps are gone, together with auto save their desktop behaves more closely to iOS. Yes, the lights are still there but off by default. http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2011/02/2011-02-28lionp-11p-1-1298942446.jpg -- BEGIN RANT -- This is my single biggest complaint against all of the new-wave GUI paradigms out there, hands down. Some information is important and should be on the screen at all times. Sometimes this is simply because of convenience - like knowing what time it is just by looking at the screen. Sometimes this is to avoid annoyance. It is nice to have a dock there, telling me which programs are open, and of the ones that are, how many windows they have open. Again, all I need to do is *look at the screen* to get this information - not go to some other part of the OS, separate from the desktop, and only accessible if i hit the magic keyboard combination or accidentally touch a hot corner. What you may not have realized is that for most applications, the addition of (1) Auto Save and (2) Resume removes the final reasons that people cared about knowing whether the application was running at all. A lot of plumbing work went into making that UI simplification possible. When an application implements both Auto Save and Resume, and doesn't have stuff to do in the background, the OS can even pause or quit the application automatically when it needs the CPU or memory respectively. Again, you don't need to care. As for how many windows are open, well, Unity's launcher doesn't tell you that precisely anyway. :-) Most importantly, though, some bits of information are useless *unless* they are always visible. I won't know if my inbox is populated unless I can see the envelope icon. I won't know that something is very wrong, and taking up 100% of my CPU, if I have to move something or go to another screen to see my CPU indicator. The whole point of these sorts of indicators is specifically TO get in the way of whatever I'm doing, because there are some instances where I have deemed it *important to interrupt me*. Agreed. ... if they only weren't hidden and were more flexible to allow _something_ like the ribbon as well. The day Linux starts using a Ribbon is the day I stop using Linux. That thing is a horror. It manages to take up 150px and does essentially the same job of something that only took up 24 previously. ... I'm not a fan of the Ribbon either, but to be fair to Microsoft, in Office it takes up less space overall than the previous menu bar and toolbars combined. http://blogs.msdn.com/b/jensenh/archive/2006/02/17/534099.aspx Unfortunately, the Ribbon was then reused in applications such as Paint where it had the opposite effect. That's symptomatic of the Ribbon's basic problem: it broke consistency with other applications, and in trying to regain consistency, those other applications got worse. - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk3x/UwACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecpeOACdGQlt4U3CqViRB1ewDuC2uHk6 ZVsAoJHcaGmepEGGiQo6i8uH9u4svdm+ =A/2+ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] 11.04 Comboboxes
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jonathan Meek wrote on 06/05/11 19:18: On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 5:58 AM, Matthew Paul Thomas m...@canonical.com ... The Check for updates menu is a combo box, and should not be. Someone has just reported this bug. http://launchpad.net/bugs/750507 Or not, it seems that is the wrong bug? Sorry, my mistake. http://launchpad.net/bugs/770507 - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk3fpmEACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecrJyQCbBhHfhGI6mPYxHERu1gRtvJjY pxEAoLiVKTRgdYiiDlZF1cPaJPvg7FPA =Yvhv -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Indicator Emulation for Systray applications
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Chow Loong Jin wrote on 02/05/11 19:07: In Ubuntu 11.04, Unity has effectively removed notification area support for almost everything but a few exceptions, which are maintained in a whitelist specified in dconf. I'm not exactly sure why this happened, but I'm thinking that it's something along the lines of forcing all applications to move to the new and improved indicators. Yes. http://design.canonical.com/2010/04/notification-area/ This actually got me thinking.. rather than hiding the icons of the applications not in the whitelist, how about emulating indicators for them? Disclaimer: I don't know if this idea has been brought up before, so if it has, please point me in the right direction. I haven't actually given much thought to the implementation, so I don't actually know how hard it is to implement, if it's even possible, but design-wise, it could be something like taking the context menu from the notification area icon and using that as the emulated indicator's menu, and add an extra entry to the top of the menu for launching the application. ... As I understand it, an external process (such as Unity's menu bar) has no way of knowing what kinds of interaction a notification area item will respond to. Without actually triggering those events, there's no programmatic way to predict what it will do when hovered over, when clicked, when double-clicked, when right-clicked, or when dragged. So there is no context menu from the notification area icon in any parseable place. Rather, when a notification area icon is right-clicked, it sometimes runs some code that happens to open a menu nearby. - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk3T07kACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecpUEACeKvcW7LDElpepfvPLKtuPWjmg lOgAoLc4/mHbLfEWkHUkJhDgJRtu3cAb =MuGK -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] 11.04 Comboboxes
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jonathan Meek wrote on 07/04/11 03:22: ... An example: Go to Power Management preferences and click the combobox for action to take on laptop lid closing, a menu will appear and you can choose an item at your leisure. Now, go run CCSM and go to the Unity plugin's settings, click on the combobox for hide behavior and it appears nothing happens. The two boxes look the same, but for one, you have to seemingly arbitrarily click and hold the combobox to select items and the other you don't. An even better example, I see THREE different comboboxes used in the Software Sources dialog: 1) In the Ubuntu Software tab, a click and hold combobox. 2)In the Updates tab a combobox that you can type in for some reason.(The Check for updates one) 3) Below that in the Updates tab as well, a combobox with the correct behavior. (The Release upgrade combobox) ... A radio menu, or option menu, lets you choose one of several choices, and displays the current choice in the closed menu. It's the menu equivalent of a set of radio buttons. A combo box is a combination of a text field and a radio menu, and displays the current choice in the text field. Windows calls a radio menu a drop-down list, while Mac OS X calls it a pop-up menu. GTK mistakenly calls it a combo box, and then calls an actual combo box a combo box entry. In both Ambiance and Radiance, I see no difference in appearance or behavior between the Power Management Preferences When laptop lid is closed menu, the CCSM Unity Hide Launcher menu, and the Software Sources Download from and Show new distribution releases menus. If you still see a difference, perhaps you could publish a screencast somewhere demonstrating it? The Check for updates menu is a combo box, and should not be. Someone has just reported this bug. http://launchpad.net/bugs/750507 - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk22l2AACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecqBugCfYdbesX467+JwOU/sXvBm2+aa 6HEAoJEmHz5KE9R/FzM5T7yDnVe/+uor =sVa5 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Fitts Law
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 GonzO Rodrigue wrote on 23/04/11 18:43: On Sat, Apr 23, 2011 at 5:25 AM, Mitja Pagon mitja.pa...@inueni.com ... http://design.canonical.com/2011/04/unity-benchmark-usability-april-2011/ Is this the testing you were referring to? If so, how come there is no mention of the issues you raised above? I believe that's a different set of tests, there. If you want to see the restults of Charlie's test, look here: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2011-April/032988.html ... It is the same test. Charline's post is largely about comparing Unity in Natty with Unity in Maverick, whereas my message was mainly about summarizing task completion in Natty. However, Charline does mention the menu issue briefly in her post: When participants had many windows opened, they did not understand that the bar corresponded to the selected window. And one of the quotes she includes is from one of the people who concluded that menus were available only for maximized windows: I didn’t like when I have things minimised. There are many things I can’t do without maximising the screen. (Both Charline and the test participants often used the word minimised to refer to unmaximized windows.) - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk223ToACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecro5ACgyZYyPOsUdP9ORIP+KnvjdLdm Q5IAoLz177g+3jm56xDPggq7B3Skvleo =3QFL -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Fitts Law
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Kevin Liao wrote on 12/04/11 14:48: Hi all, I've been wondering, the Global Menu debate has been very furious for a while now. Proponents argue that Fitts Law is efficient. However, Unity's implementation of the Global Menu is that it becomes a menu when it is hovered over. Doesn't this mean that Fitts Law is rendered invalid because the user is in a sense blind until the mouse hovers over the menu? ... It does. In the videos I watched of Charline Poirier's user test two weeks ago, of the eight out of ten people who could find the hidden menus at all, seven of them discovered the menus while mousing over the close/minimize/unmaximize buttons in a maximized window. They then concluded that the way to access menus was to hover over the close/minimize/unmaximize buttons, and then move sideways. This was very slow, and didn't work at all in unmaximized windows. People were much faster at using LibreOffice's menus, which are not yet integrated into the global menu bar by default. - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk2tfaYACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecrSbQCeL6RbZA+rHj7NMEhaPmJJT6If H9gAnj3fTRXOwqwC3tA8rWI/1WXMsmtW =4Qj1 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Awesome critical review of Unity
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Luke Benstead wrote on 13/04/11 12:11: ... If you guys haven't watched this (well, listened mainly) you really should. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaLDMz_e2jQfeature=player_embedded I have to say though, I agree with him on pretty much every single point, especially his point about removing the top bar completely. ... Here is a summary of the video. He calls the launcher auto-hide behavior weird and really confusing: - - The behavior is different depending on whether there is a window in the left part of the screen. - - The behavior is different depending on whether any window is maximized (because a maximized window is in the left part of the screen). - - The launcher partly appears when you hover over the Ubuntu button, but doesn't actually work unless you go right into the corner. - - Hovering over the Ubuntu button reveals the launcher, but clicking the Ubuntu button hides the launcher. He recommends showing the launcher all the time by default, with an option to auto-hide it. Other launcher details: - - He calls the icon stacking pretty clever, but is annoyed that it expands downwards rather than upwards, which means that you have to scroll the launcher by clicking and dragging. - - The drag-scrolling is uselessly possible even when the launcher has empty space. For a long time I was wondering, what the hell was that for? - - This in turn means that you can't rearrange items in the launcher merely by dragging vertically. - - At least the scrolling is better than the paging through icons in Windows 7's taskbar, which is no good because it's modal. - - He suggests that instead of scrolling, it would be better for the launcher to have a second row. - - Failing that, he suggests putting up a little overlay message when you scroll the launcher, explaining what's going on. - - I think that trash can is kind of silly, I just don't think people need to look at their trash can that frequently. - - He's also annoyed that Applications, Files Folders, and Workspace Switcher are stuck in the launcher permanently. Special cases always require a great deal of justification, and having workspaces visible by default is a really terrible idea. (He goes into detail about people who barely even understand the distinction between Web pages and browsers, let alone workspaces.) Dash: - - He likes the Dash, especially that the search field is at the top rather than at the bottom as it is in Windows. - - He thinks the default contents are good for novice users, but wonders why there are four applications here, and guesses that they might have been chosen by user testing. - - The Shortcuts button is weird and has a confusing Home icon -- it has nothing to do with your home folder. - - The resize button is weird, because clicking it rearranges the icons, and it seems unnecessary. Applications screen: - - I generally like this ... nice and readable, very well-spaced. - - He criticizes showing Apps Available for Download by default, for two reasons: - For most computer users ... they're overwhelmed by all the options that already exist on their systems ... Trying to throw more stuff at them just makes them less happy. - The list is a whole bunch of apps, where people have no idea what the hell they're for. No descriptions, and crappy names. - - You need to click a tiny See 74 more results control to see the full list of installed applications. Why not just expand the screen and show them with a scrollbar straight away? - - It's not obvious that All Applications is clickable, and the items in it are too small. Menu bar: - - As someone who fidgets with his mouse, he dislikes how this makes the menus show and hide distractingly. - - When a background window is maximized: - You can't close, minimize, or unmaximize it. - The title for the active window looks like it's the title for the background window. - The menus for the active window look like they're the menus for the maximized window. - - He assumes that the weird overlay of the menu titles on the left part of the application title is a bug that will be fixed before release. - - He'd like to get rid of the global menu entirely. - - Ideally, he'd prefer to get rid of the top bar entirely, moving the icons at the top right of the screen to the bottom of the launcher. - - What they need, at the very least, to do is just ditch this whole concept of merging the title bar into the top bar. You can't have the global application menu, and this integrated title bar business, going on at the same time. - - Alternatively, have a button in the top bar that opens the menus in a second row. - - He likes the application icon shown in the top bar in Gnome 3.
Re: [Ayatana] why global menubar/application menu isn't such a great idea
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Kévin PEIGNOT wrote on 05/04/11 14:04: ... I still don't see why using a global menu on non-maximised windows. Even for consistency it's useless : if the menu bar is in the panel *just for maximised* windows, every windows will have it's menu just over their body -- logical for most of end-users. Vertical space gain is still here. You have less move to do with your mouse (imagine for menus of a window in the bottom right corner...). If there is one good reason to have menus of un-maximised windows in the panel, then explain it to me. ... https://lists.launchpad.net/ayatana/msg05114.html Cheers - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk2deZUACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecoixgCfc4vtFaypjKe6UF8GOCvJNzA1 WAMAoMKuGElmo03L/bfCZdCfz5pdNKeM =IQjo -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] why global menubar/application menu isn't such a great idea
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 giff gill wrote on 05/04/11 18:32: ... But I have to say, that's interesting. Unity was initially designed with netbook formfactor and user case in mind and later extended to the desktop. Still the fundamental design was kept 1:1, the same design for different form factors. I'm not sure (I can't find the specification), but I think there may be some small differences in how the launcher behaves on netbooks. One of my points is that I do not think a global menubar makes much sense on a large monitor (20 and up). Some of its benefits (faster, saves space, more predictable direction) lessen but don't go away entirely. The other benefits stay the same. ... It is much easier to reopen a tab you closed recently, or to return to a page you visited a few minutes ago, or to clear all browsing data, in Chrome for Mac than in Chrome for Windows. Why? Because the Mac version has a menu bar with items for those functions, while the Windows version does not. But there's the Fitt's Law trade-off. What do people access more often? In a browser, the tabs, sure. But most other windows don't even have tabs. What if Chrome had two buttons instead of one, that equals about the information density and depth of the Mac menu layout. The History menu alone is deeper and more information-dense than the spanner menu is. ... Actually, I'm pretty sure the Back button has that honor. I guess so, I have a five button mouse so I use that but statistically you are most likely right. So what would a clever UI developer do? Simple, put the back-button next to the first tab at the top of the screen. (MS Ribbon has something very similar where you can put the undo function into the title-bar). The plain menubar doesn't allow that. I've long wondered why browsers don't make the Back button a narrow strip down the left edge of the screen. That would both be much faster to use *and* make visual sense. A fallback menu so it doesn't look stupid? Not just for that, of course. :-) It will also make the editing functions (Cut, Copy, Paste) more accessible when the keyboard is further away then the mouse is. The context menu is even closer. So is a menu directly in the window in multi-window mode. I was referring to the proximity of the input device, not the target area. :-) Over time, as more programs fill in the menu bar, it will solve other design problems too. For example, for years Gnome has had a problem with how to make changes in settings windows undoable. Where to put the Undo command? With a menu bar, the answer is obvious: Edit Undo. They either already have a menubar directly in the window now and this doesn't help solving anything The reason they haven't had menus up till now is, rather mundanely, that menus inside a dialog-like window look weird. Menus in a global menu bar don't. or they now get a menubar with a single relevant function It would also contain the standard suite of editing commands (Cut, Copy, Paste, Delete, Select All). which would be a waste of space and cumbersome to use because it's nested. A dedicated single button is faster and more discoverable and ctrl+z could have implemented a long time ago without changing anything in the UI. The reason for not having a dedicated single button was, again mundanely, that there was no consistent place to put it. 1. Exploration -- the menu hierarchy acts as a map for understanding what features are available in an application, even if some of them are also available elsewhere. 3. Teaching -- the menus act as cheat sheets for the keyboard shortcuts. Who said there shouldn't be an equivalent to these necessary UI functions? Firefox and Chrome both have a menu-button that fulfills these tasks. What's the keyboard shortcut for going into full-screen mode in Chrome? And what are the keyboard shortcuts for making text smaller or larger? The menu-button can't tell you, because it's cramming multiple menu items into the same row, because it's trying to get by with a single menu. 2. Familiarity -- it can be easier to remember that Print is always in the File menu for any application where it's available at all, than to remember where (or whether) the Print button is in each application. The UI should be consistent were it makes sense (i.e. helps the user get things done) but not for a blind sake of consistency. I think like in your paste example from MS if an application has a dedicated print button it will be uses more frequently than a nested print command. Likewise I don't care at all as long as ctrl-p works (give me consistent keyboard shortcuts and I'm happy). That may work for Microsoft Office, decked out as it is with ribbons and buttons like a field marshal's uniform. But Ctrl+P working wouldn't inform you that, for example, iTunes has a Print function for printing CD
Re: [Ayatana] Merging libindicate into libnotify
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Conscious User wrote on 01/04/11 18:57: The idea that all non-immediate notifications should be grouped together in a single place, regardless of topic, is very much like the idea that progress for all long-running tasks should be grouped together in a single place regardless of task. It's the kind of categorization that may make perfect sense to engineers, but to others it risks looking like a jumble of unrelated things. What are your thoughts on, for example, what Jockey, PolicyKit and File Transfer currently do? They basically use an appindicator to persist, just like Update Manager did in the past with the notification area. Do you think this should be the standard procedure for all apps that do not fit in the current categories (messaging and sound)? Absolutely not. If no, how should they be fixed? If yes, why not do something similar for Update Manager instead of popping up the window? Designing a replacement for Jockey's menu is something I'm working on this week. Maybe it can be merged into Update Manager, or maybe there's a better place for it. Anyone got suggestions? http://launchpad.net/bugs/617392 Even if these one-off menus were a good idea, the PolicyKit one -- like the Jockey one -- would be more confusing than useful: I doubt there is any rewording of Drop elevated privileges that would be widely understandable. I think this should just be deleted, or replaced with a Remember my password for 5 minutes checkbox in the Authenticate dialog. http://launchpad.net/bugs/550502 And the File Operations menu is just a workaround for not having a real progress window, i.e. a window that is minimizable but not closable. http://launchpad.net/bugs/534477 One of the motivations behind the introduction of Notify OSD was to encourage applications to use general-purpose notification systems less often. Notifications of things are more helpful if they are closer to those things, for example embedded in relevant windows. Aren't the most common usage of notifications the situations where relevant windows are *not* currently in sight, or when there is no such thing as relevant windows at all? Only if you define notifications as things that aren't already being shown in a relevant window. :-) - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk2a3jsACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecoAEACfZSy/BMk+xNYT224xqrAe07aT D9wAn37h5BJY44T8CmZ5OJd7IBZDOOnA =l5C3 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Integrate Alt-tab with Unity Launcher
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 David Gorski wrote on 04/04/11 19:55: I recently installed Natty on my machine and I was really impressed by how far Unity has come. Everything is smooth and I have almost no crashes. The interface is also very clean. The only item that stands out is the old compiz alt-tab switcher; It looks very odd with the low-res icons and scaled-down windows previews. My solution to this would be to bring up the Unity launcher and show a highlight that moves between open applications when alt-tab is pressed. What do guys think about this? That is an interesting idea. I see two main difficulties, though. First, Alt Tab has traditionally switched between windows. If it started switching between applications instead, that could be extremely frustrating. Second, if it did switch between applications, using the launcher for this would be elegant but perhaps not visible enough. Mac OS X 10.0 and 10.1 did exactly what you describe, but it was hard to see the highlight, so 10.2 introduced a separate overlay-style switcher. - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk2bMR8ACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecoBeQCgyk7fxJIhwpnGQmIgsDY8jq0/ H74AoJ1PYCFOpaUc10vfgMZUhvaQj9Xr =y6jf -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] why global menubar/application menu isn't such a great idea
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 giff g wrote on 04/04/11 16:24: Here are some reasons why I think the application menu in unity as it is now is a failed attempt at improving the user experience in Ubuntu. 1) Primary target of Ubuntu Unity are _net_books, accordingly the most important application is going to be the browser as repeatedly pointed out here: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/383 That is no longer true. As Mark Shuttleworth announced at UDS Natty, Unity is now targeted at all PCs with pointing devices, not just netbooks. http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2010/10/shuttleworth-unity-shell-will-be-default-desktop-in-ubuntu-1104.ars The two most relevant browsers for Ubuntu Unity ar e Firefox 4 and Chromium. Both do not need or have a classic menubar, It is much easier to reopen a tab you closed recently, or to return to a page you visited a few minutes ago, or to clear all browsing data, in Chrome for Mac than in Chrome for Windows. Why? Because the Mac version has a menu bar with items for those functions, while the Windows version does not. Making the menu bar optional is a legitimate choice for an OS, and abandoning it altogether makes sense for a Web-only OS like Chrome OS (though the menu bar in Google Docs will never be as pleasant to use as native menus). But for any other OS, it has trade-offs. instead both, when run in full screen mode (the layout that makes the most sense on small screens) put the tabs on top. Sure, that's the next best thing for a browser to use that screen edge for, if the OS isn't already using it for the menu bar. Why do they do that? Because tabs are the most frequently accessed interface elements of a browser chrome. Actually, I'm pretty sure the Back button has that honor. ... The rationale for the way it works now strikes me as particularly unsatisfactory: from http://design.canonical.com/2010/05/menu-bar ... Tackling the corner cases (...) Many windows currently don’t have menus: for example, Open and Save dialogs. For these, we’ll introduce a fallback set of minimal menus so that the menu bar doesn’t look weirdly empty when those windows are focused. A fallback menu so it doesn't look stupid? Not just for that, of course. :-) It will also make the editing functions (Cut, Copy, Paste) more accessible when the keyboard is further away then the mouse is. Over time, as more programs fill in the menu bar, it will solve other design problems too. For example, for years Gnome has had a problem with how to make changes in settings windows undoable. Where to put the Undo command? With a menu bar, the answer is obvious: Edit Undo. I'd say introducing additional clutter, actually wasting screen estate, possibly confusing users by duplicating functionality for the sake of dubious consistency is stupid. Menu bars have always partly duplicated functions available elsewhere. This is for three main reasons. 1. Exploration -- the menu hierarchy acts as a map for understanding what features are available in an application, even if some of them are also available elsewhere. 2. Familiarity -- it can be easier to remember that Print is always in the File menu for any application where it's available at all, than to remember where (or whether) the Print button is in each application. 3. Teaching -- the menus act as cheat sheets for the keyboard shortcuts. 2) Probably repeating what has been said already: What about large Desktop monitors? There is the trend away from Desktops to more portable devices but for those that still use Desktops at all: Desktop setups tend to get larger and more powerful all the time. Monitors have higher and higher resolutions and multi-monitor setups are becoming the norm. Accordingly the users themselves tend to be heavy multi-tasker. Given the hardware specs, fast SSDs and large scree resolutions nothing is in the way of the user, well except for the user interface. A bit of personal anecdotal evidence: I've been using OS X for a long time on small Laptop screens, then I got a large monitor and hooked it up. I noticed how the interface made less sense and was harder to use now that the menubar and a given window often were apart several inches. It's not so much about how far the mouse has to travel, it's about the visual focus: On a large screen and especially when using multiple screens one actually has to turn the head just to access a funct ion for the window you are currently working in. Apparently I wasn't the only one annoyed by that so someone already wrote a solution: http://homepage.mac.com/khsu/DejaMenu/DejaMenu.html Are we going to need such hack in Ubuntu too? No, because Ubuntu solves the same problem in a more sensible way, by having a menu bar on each display. ... 3)menu bar is so 1990s It's not just Firefox and Chrome. MS Office is just the most prominent
Re: [Ayatana] Merging libindicate into libnotify
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Conscious User wrote on 31/03/11 18:57: ... In Natty, the Ubuntu One item was moved from the Me Menu from the Messaging Menu. Was this agreed on by the design team? Not as far as I know. I reported a bug about it that was marked Invalid. http://launchpad.net/bugs/740340 After that, I discussed it with the Ubuntu One tech lead. I suggested that Ubuntu One use its own indicator menu, which glows when there are share invitations, and otherwise just animates slowly when syncing. As long as it's in the messaging menu it can't show sync progress, without being present in the launcher too -- which both consumes a lot of space in the launcher for something that really isn't that important, and means Ubuntu One status is being shown in two (or one-and-a-half) different places on the screen. If it was, I think this is a good opportunity to wonder if there is still a point in trying to tie the Messaging Menu to messaging applications only. Currently, the messaging menu is the desktop resource that covers that case where notifications require response but not necessarily immediate. The no-response case is covered by the bubbles and the immediate response case is covered by unfocused dialog boxes, or whatever will replace them (the never implemented morphing boxes in the specification or the IDO thingies that Empathy is using now) in the future. The existence of libindicate is something that has always bothered me. The not-necessarily-immediate-response case is a common scenario required by a significative number of applications, and requiring those applications to support an extra library (and thus extra patching for working in Ubuntu) is unpleasant. Shouldn't this case be covered by the Notification Spec and each desktop offer a standard single mechanism for handling them, independently of the app? Shouldn't the Messaging Menu drop the messaging app requirement and become the standard Ubuntu mechanism for handling these kind of notifications? ... The idea that all non-immediate notifications should be grouped together in a single place, regardless of topic, is very much like the idea that progress for all long-running tasks should be grouped together in a single place regardless of task. It's the kind of categorization that may make perfect sense to engineers, but to others it risks looking like a jumble of unrelated things. One of the motivations behind the introduction of Notify OSD was to encourage applications to use general-purpose notification systems less often. Notifications of things are more helpful if they are closer to those things, for example embedded in relevant windows. - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk2VraUACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecrp8QCgoJqwqOb9qScXDwhY/2yohe8e p4kAoLYaZTVGgtk6JT83LnCtIReP0I7g =j9Ap -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] What to do with the menubar on non-full screened windows.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 SorinN wrote on 30/03/11 22:33: Matthew If it's an obscene amount, your pointer acceleration settings are wrong: you'll have just as much trouble getting to the Ubuntu button, the Trash, or the session menu. The obscene amount is still there - you can not cut it out in just 3 words. It would be easy of course to solve problems this way. ;) Sounds like Me, then Goethe. I can ask you how do you get this point ? The arguments are vague. Sorry, I don't know what you're talking about. The mouse acceleration has nothing with that - think about a large amount of users NEVER change the initial mouse settings. In plus, Global Menu break the eye focus when you follow the mouse to the menu and back. Think about big screens. Interface design for notebook and desktop PCs has always assumed that you can get from any point on the screen, to any other point on the screen, with a single flick of the mouse or touchpad. That's true for Windows, it's true for Mac OS, and it's true for Ubuntu. If Ubuntu's default mouse settings don't allow for that, we need to fix them. Your analogy with the Trash and Session Menu is not very clear. You normally visit Trash or Session Menu just very few times per session but the Global Menu very often because of his role. That may be true for the Trash and session menu, but not for the Ubuntu button. If the focus is disturbed too often - the brain will got tired sooner ..is a normal reaction. Not only would that -- like other single-menu designs -- be much slower to use, it would also mean the menu structure changed fundamentally depending solely on how big the window is, which would be bizarre. you say which would be bizarre - how bizarre ? which metric your words describe ? What? this is a matter of the application owner / user choice (Like Firefox personal menu I want this function == I install the add-on). Not any application must be ruled by the OS using a single measure. That the Firefox implementation is an add-on is part of the development process, not part of the ultimate design. Once the Firefox extension is shown to work well, and if Unity becomes successful, I expect the extension will be merged into Firefox trunk, just like Mac menu bar integration is. Hide / Show menu-bar button - can solve this problem by letting you to choose which menu you want to see and which not. Without any hope of knowing why you might want to choose one or the other. That would be even worse than those applications with Beginner and Advanced modes. Finally for Global Menu - If the global menu will not be optional, at least users should choose which app will use Global Menu and not. ... Anyone who said the same for a Mac application would be laughed out of the market. - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk2UUAkACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecrgTACgvwEf3NNGJOCfloMB5FfMmsl1 V8YAmgJIEPsDTWcyf7PTGrEQlH0D5gy6 =z00F -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] What to do with the menubar on non-full screened windows.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Saleel Velankar wrote on 29/03/11 15:16: In a nonmaximized window on a. a large screen b. with other nonmaximized windows present The global-menubar fails for these reasons. 1. Confusion on which application the menu is for. This is a bug in the theme, not the layout. It affects not just using the menus, but the keyboard too. http://launchpad.net/bugs/534799 2. Having to move the mouse an obscene amount If it's an obscene amount, your pointer acceleration settings are wrong: you'll have just as much trouble getting to the Ubuntu button, the Trash, or the session menu. In my 1 + 2 = not nice behavior. http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2011/03/menu-button-inside-window-decorations/ I have been reading this, and I think that the mockup provides a good compromise in non maximized windows. Thoughts? ... Not only would that -- like other single-menu designs -- be much slower to use, it would also mean the menu structure changed fundamentally depending solely on how big the window is, which would be bizarre. - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk2S/RgACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecrh3QCghwIjRO9TeaXwsK/RFdc87G9z lsEAn0qEk8eklBauKYFOoy9CGXLo38rV =Wntf -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Design problem: Menus hidden by default in Unity
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Spike Burch wrote on 28/03/11 12:38: ... Users are more than welcome to choose to use something else, you know. ... Yeah, but if you keep saying that often enough, they will. - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk2Qt7MACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecrGwwCgvnEGLHGfu4TxcFnK0vqhWp1f UIoAn1oy4C3Ymr68ia5QpGZHs/GISE51 =HCBy -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Side-by-side placement of Messaging menu and Me menu
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 M. Adnan Quaium wrote on 23/03/11 12:08: ... I think it would be better if the 'messaging menu' (the envelop icon) and the 'me menu' (the speech-bubble icon with user name) are placed side-by-side. Right now they are placed at the two opposite ends of the 'time and date' indicator like the following image: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/new-icons.png ... Yes, they're supposed to be next to each other. Unfortunately we ran out of time to fix this. For Ocelot, one of the possibilities I'll investigate is combining the two. - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk2LHoQACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecoRPQCdGmiYInTK0JAON5KZEDDZyq31 GSMAmwexCgukM/B0ccrHIa+7UZQq8fz1 =18fM -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Unity feedback suggestions
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Sorry I can't reply to all your suggestions, just the ones I know anything about. Jimmy Forrester-Fellowes wrote on 23/03/11 14:48: ... * The first thing that hit me was why is the ubuntu button so small compared with launcher buttons? As it's now the most important button on my dekstop it seems a little understated. How would it look if the launcher bar took up all the vertical space, and the first square button was a nice fancy ubuntu button that didn't ever move (even if the launcher bar scrolls)? The effective target size of the Ubuntu button is much larger than any of the launcher buttons, because it is in the corner of the screen. Whether it *looks* important relative to the launcher is also an issue, but separate. * I can't seem to find a keyboard-shortcut to open the unity shell. The Super key (i.e. the Windows key on Windows keyboards, the Command key on Mac keyboards) reveals the launcher and Dash. ... *File management* * I don't know if unity is planning/working on phasing nautilus out of ubuntu but that's the impression I get. I think it would be great if unity had the functionality of nautilus/dolphin but at the moment it doesn't have some very basic critical features. This has probably been my biggest issue with unity. I found myself using unity shell to find my documents but then having to load nautilus up as unity didn't have the features i needed to work with them. When my less computer savvy friends/family click 'Files and Folders' and see a screen full of their documents, photos videos, they will expect to be able to accomplish basic tasks (/copy, paste, rename, order by, see full filenames, open files with alternative applications/) there and then as they are accustomed to. Unity shell feels like it's half way to being a file-manager but doesn't quite get there, switching to nautlis to perform basic tasks feels clunky. I agree, the current division is awkward. Several times already I've tried to drag files from the Dash to the Trash, before remembering that it's not implemented. And there will always be user experience precipices like that, as long as the Dash does some but not all of what Nautilus does. *Unity Launcher Panel* * I suggest removing rubbish bin icon from the launcher, or at very least give the user to option to. I rarely use it (usually once every 6 months when I remember to empty it to free some space). I wonder if it would become more useful it there was a simple API for trashing things from other applications, not just the file manager. For example, trashing a bookmark from a Web browser, or a chat log from an IM client. * I dont think any of the 3 icons at the bottom (Files Folders, Application Rubbish bin) are essential. It would be nice to consolidate their functionality in to the single unity-shell. Interesting idea. ... * Double clicking on the window title usually maximises and then restores a window. This works on unity unless the window is maximised and then it doesn't do anything. When you double click on the file menu bar to the right of the options could it restore a window? It would be more consistent this way. I think that's fixed already. http://launchpad.net/bugs/661049 *Miscellaneous* * ALT+TAB seems quite dated now in unity. Not the idea - just the way it works. I suggest making it display thumbnails of all the windows (same effect as when you click an application icon in the launcher panel when there are multiple windows), continuing to alt+tab or using the arrow keys you could select the window you want? One of my colleagues is working on a redesign for Alt Tab, but has nothing public to show yet. Anyone else is welcome to publish their own design for it too. * Window titles seem to have gone - I didn't really mind this until I came to a situation where I had two openoffice spreadsheets open and couldn't see which one was saved and which wasn't. Are they gone for good?! Maybe the window was maximized, or maybe unity-window-decorator had crashed. * The icons at the top right (battery indicator, wifi, sound etc) are very fiddly to use. I've watched someone attempt to turn the volume down on my laptop failing multiple times as when they move their mouse to grab the range-slider it moves them on to the chat/gwibber or date drop-down. It really should be a little more forgiving! ... That is a bug in GTK. http://launchpad.net/bugs/552920 Cheers - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk2LHLIACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecq85gCeP+eInBxC0qTE2KkvN6qIOl0P
Re: [Ayatana] We need a short-term solution for mail applications and the messaging menu
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 frederik.nn...@gmail.com wrote on 17/03/11 10:16: On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 14:27, Conscious User consciousu...@aol.com ... The subject is already receiving less attention than I wanted without being derailed, [...] unfortunately so. perhaps we should ask someone with an @canonical.com http://canonical.com to start an official thread!? ... That isn't necessary. :-) It is a good thing for a mail client to allow checking for messages when it has no windows open. But it's not a critical Natty-stopping flaw if it doesn't. If you want it implemented in your favorite mail client, draw up a sketch of a few different ways it could be toggled on/off within that client, choose the best one, implement it (or promote it to attract someone else to implement it), and send the code upstream. You have the power. - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk2DkNkACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecrl2ACgtRec4G/vDotQeXmJDVZtYcXe nCAAnA7PHB+oimZv21uC8i4ey0MKSF9n =Iv0E -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Design problem: Menus hidden by default in Unity
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Luke Benstead wrote on 15/03/11 21:53: ... Erm, I hate to point out the obvious, but why don't we just put the menu back in the windows and abandon appmenu as a failed experiment? Keep the title and window controls in the panel for maximized windows only (at least just for Natty). I can already imagine the replies to this email, so let me save you guys the trouble: 1. Someone will bring up Fitt's Law. Yes I know what it is. No, I don't think it should be used as an overriding reason to squash, overlap, and generally complicate a UI and shove it into an edge. I especially don't see why Fitt's law is so important for menu bars, when users get on perfectly fine with buttons, sliders, window resize grips and icons, and well, everything else. That's looking at it backwards, I think. Screen edges are efficient target areas for whatever is put there. Given that, what should they be used for? Menus are used a lot, ergo, they're a good candidate to be made more efficient. 2. Someone will likely bring up the space saving of the global menu. Firstly, the global menu only saves vertical space on a maximized window, on non-maximized windows they only save on chrome. It also saves space whenever two or more windows are stacked vertically. By keeping the title in the panel for maximized windows, we are still saving 22px on Gnome 2, with the removal of the bottom panel that brings it up to 44px. It's about finding a balance of space saving vs usability and I really think we have shot past that balance point with the global menu. Space saving vs usability is a false dichotomy. Space saving reduces scrolling and memory load, which is part of efficiency, which is part of usability. So, the question again raised is why exactly are we using a global menu? Benefits: * Much faster to use. * Saves vertical space. * Menus no longer need to be cramped by, or overflow beyond, the window width (e.g. Empathy, Gimp, Inkscape). * Menus no longer surprisingly open upwards when the window is near the bottom of the screen. * Allows the desktop to have the same menus as any other folder (which, in turn, will reduce the complexity of context menus). * In future, will allow dialogs to have Edit, Help etc menus consistent with other windows. * In future, will allow visual unification of title bars and toolbars. I know I've brought it up before, but alongside the issues we are having fitting it into the panel with the title, it also brings issues with dual monitors, large resolutions and focus-follows-mouse. It doesn't fit all use cases. ... Dual monitors are not a problem (though if they're stacked vertically, the bottom one loses its speed benefit). Large screens make the menus a bit slower, but not nearly as slow as they would be inside windows. The loss of focus-follows-mouse is a real tradeoff, though. (I've specified how it could be made compatible, but no-one has been interested enough to work on it yet.) - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk2B7wIACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecr/hgCfQmwbIB8XbywmWUL6zHOJRAI8 nMkAmwbgxluzK5tYZjwp0HOM9Ssl+xFR =PTeU -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Design problem: Menus hidden by default in Unity
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Scott Kitterman wrote on 16/03/11 12:42: ... A bug is a bug no matter who files it. If we're down to it's only a real bug if certain people file the bug, then that's a real problem. ... I totally agree. I don't think my bug reports should get special treatment because I work at Canonical. But I do think bug reports are more likely to be valid if they're from the person who maintains the specification for the relevant feature, no matter who they work for. - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk2B8HcACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecqdUACguwvgaUg4DFIfy0QKpWY6y3lH iv8AnjnXwZVVolknhchlF/TYmioPazJ7 =tmJG -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Consolidated Keyboard Indicator (or: Polyglots need love, too)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Marc Lajoie wrote on 15/03/11 15:22: Hey, wow, I see you guys are already way ahead of me on this one. So how can I help? Is there already some code on this that I can hack on? ... The existing menu is part of gnome-settings-daemon. https://code.launchpad.net/gnome-settings-daemon - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk2AocYACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecrzSQCgtKGi0Y+tmShBd2KXGJTKX+3N YU8AmgLoQbD5Ni8I7yXKPpMmM8KptP1E =u4UF -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Design problem: Menus hidden by default in Unity
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Paul Sladen wrote on 16/03/11 11:29:
On Wed, 16 Mar 2011, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote:
Do you know of any Ubuntu application that was trying to use its menu
titles as an indicator in the first place?
The Gimp and various other MDI applications prepend an asterisk ('*')
to the front of the window title to show an edited, but unsaved work.
...
They don't change their menu titles, though.
- --
mpt
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Re: [Ayatana] Consolidated Keyboard Indicator (or: Polyglots need love, too)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Marc Lajoie wrote on 13/03/11 09:27: Ubuntu needs a consolidated keyboard indicator, one that allows users to change keyboard layouts and keyboard input methods all in one place. Check out the attached image to see what a disaster the current setup is. ... If you can help out with this, please do. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KeyboardSettings - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk1/QuoACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecqocgCfVLwFL3qazPhPrOvFxX9dAv59 dfcAoIwMm6AFmRrPRNcBxIN57RpWzkti =89PF -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Global menu really frustrating in virtual machines
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Scott Ritchie wrote on 08/03/11 10:57: The global menu is based on the assumption that it's easier to hit the corner of the screen than it is to hit the edge of the active window. This breaks down, however, when the mouse doesn't actually stop at the corner of the screen, which is exactly the case in virtual machines that integrate with the host OS. ... Maybe so, but even in that case it's no worse than (for example) a maximized MDI window in Windows. I guess the same problem exists for the launcher? - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk1+AO4ACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecpKGgCfWMmjXrOQa5obm424ZuDwqWSp OecAnRi8tsq1ivJdrTd9TvgLJRbPcDNg =o1uv -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Minimize a window in Unity by clicking it's icon
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Kostas Sytske wrote on 11/03/11 16:04: ... At the moment it is only possible to maximize a window but it's not possible to minimize a window in Unity by clicking it's icon. The minimize button in the top panel is a option but it would be nice if it is possible to minimize the window by clicking on the icon in the Unity launcher. The same way as it is possible in the dock bar in Apple OSX. ... It is not possible to minimize an individual window by clicking its icon in the Mac OS X Dock, because windows are shown in the Dock only when they are already minimized. It is not possible to minimize an individual window by clicking its icon in the Unity launcher, because windows are not shown in the launcher at all. Clicking an application icon in the Unity launcher spreads all the windows for the application, and clicking again minimizes all windows for the application at once. I don't know whether that last behavior is intentional. - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk1+U0cACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecog8gCeMAH4TgXLACKrQ0wDWf+3Rj8O nwQAoJVwdnslZP3IKDPocia0hFgyQ9gn =BPg6 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Regarding the Sound Menu Spec's closing of inactive audio applications
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Chow Loong Jin wrote on 15/02/11 17:05: On Tuesday 08,February,2011 09:36 PM, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: A window's close button should close the window. Anything else the program does should aim for the least overall distraction. Please correct me if I am wrong, but does this not mean that the original behaviour of having the media players (Banshee and Rhythmbox) close their windows, but remain running in the background, ready to resume at a moment's notice, is the correct behaviour after all? I don't claim to be an expert on when a media player should unload itself. What I do claim is that hardly anyone else is an expert on that topic either. :-) It's something best worked out by the Banshee and Rhythmbox developers. It seems to me that the original behaviour (as opposed to the current behaviour) closes the window and yields the least overall distraction, thus complying with the statement you made. The user does not need to know that the media player is actually still running in the background. The Quit action does create a bit of confusion in that case though. It does. That much, at least, is easily solved: rename it to Close. http://design.canonical.com/2011/03/quit/ - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk12DzcACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecp6pACeP4VfyMoK39gEq9Y+GoURpQJR p4QAnis8F6cPiqHs6MvElEAZbWPRCWtg =GLek -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] What is idle ?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 frederik.nn...@gmail.com wrote on 25/02/11 12:22: I noticed a degree of redundancy in the usage of the metaphor idle, which might be something we can eliminate. In the attached screenshot i marked all instances and synonyms of idle. ... Well spotted. This problem has existed since at least 2006. http://mail.gnome.org/archives/usability/2006-March/msg00057.html Perhaps it could be fixed as a papercut. - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk109M4ACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecoTtACfVQ42LVlSErlS+rQZuRnqUjk2 9BsAn32kmq//A32VXwRJjAG/5LBTbCh/ =D1xk -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Redundancy : Preference's Menu and Indicator's options
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 frederik.nn...@gmail.com wrote on 15/02/11 13:39: ... On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 11:36, Matthew Paul Thomas m...@canonical.com ... The items in the status menus are shortcuts. Sometimes someone will go into the clock menu to change something about the time, or the sound menu to change something about the sound, etc, before realizing that the menu itself doesn't contain the setting they want. But that's okay, because at the end of the menu there's a shortcut to the relevant settings pane. ... As i understand your explanation, it would make sense to have 1 configure XYZ entry in each status menu!? I would like that and i would find it quite consistent, compared to having several configuration links in one menu, 2 in an other status menu and only 1 on the bottom of yet another, while the Session Menu e.g. has not a single configuration item on the bottom of its menu. ... There's no real benefit from trying to have exactly one settings item per menu. For the Me/Messaging Menu, that would then mean there would be an item such as configure messaging on the bottom. This again would lead to a unified messaging configuration wizard or page, where i can pick out the part or type of messaging i intend to configure. Is that too far off? Yes, first you would need to implement either a unified messaging client, or an API for multiple clients to share the same settings window. - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk1rm8QACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecrPjQCgoBE+ZavKepiz/MSn3Yqxmam/ X0IAnjVsiP8+pIB+vskzOEc1w3V6wJrz =5DuE -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Left close buttons on tabs
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Mark Curtis wrote on 28/02/11 19:14: Chrome's tab behavior for quickly closing tabs is for quickly closing the current tab and the ones after (to the right) of it. Once there are no more tabs to the right, it works for tabs to the left as well, up to a maximum tab width. If close buttons for the tabs were on the left, then Chrome's behavior would be the same, reorder the tabs upon close, resize them (if necessary) ones the mouse leaves the tab area. Which would work for tabs to the right, but not for tabs to the left as it does now. Conscious User wrote on 28/02/11 19:42: It is true that Chrome does not currently cover the use case Matthew presented, even with the buttons on the right, but I think his point was that it *could* if the devs *wanted to*, while with buttons on the right, it is not possible without awkwardness. ... Actually, I was describing Chrome's current behavior. That said, I do question if two having different behaviors (sliding when the tab is not the final one, resizing when it is) is a good idea... sounds inconsistent and awkward in its own way. ... The sliding isn't a goal in itself. It is only part of the secondary goal of minimizing distraction (the primary goal being maximizing efficiency). Sliding once is less distracting than sliding twice. Also, even buttons on the right do not properly cover the case where the use wants to start closing by the last tab, but there are not enough tabs to horizontally fill the screen, unless we follow the tabs are streched for horizontal feeling even when there are very few tabs philosophy of Nautilus... which is kinda ugly, to be honest. ... Indeed. The Chrome developers have set a maximum tab width at the point where they think aesthetics trump efficiency. - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk1sBo0ACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecpZjACfQOGOh17rs7eFNGS1JVMxbCWh zNIAn0RzB4h6wasDESjhmfNK5wpnkatR =8hGe -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Redundancy : Preference's Menu and Indicator's options
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 cyrildz wrote on 04/02/11 17:24: ... in the Preferences' Menu (System-- Preferences) we have: -Instant Messaging and VoIP - Microbloging -Network Connexion -Sound -About Me -Ubuntu One But those Entries are already present on the Indicators : -Instant Messaging and VoIP --(Messaging-Menu and Me-Menu) - Microbloging -- (Messaging-Menu and Me-Menu) -Network Connexion -- Indicator-network or nm-applet -Sound -- Indicator-Sound -About Me -- Me-Menu -Ubuntu One --Me-Menu [on Natty, it is on both Me-Menu and Messaging-Menu (Inappropriate here)]. Consequence : We have a surcharged Preferences Menu. The conclusion is that it is confusing. The Indicators are are well exposed to handle those Entries. We should hide the same Entries on the Preference's Menu ... The items in the status menus are shortcuts. Sometimes someone will go into the clock menu to change something about the time, or the sound menu to change something about the sound, etc, before realizing that the menu itself doesn't contain the setting they want. But that's okay, because at the end of the menu there's a shortcut to the relevant settings pane. In Natty the primary session is Unity, which doesn't have a Preferences menu; and in Natty+1, even the classic session (if it still exists) may use Gnome 3's System Settings window, and therefore not have a Preferences menu either. (BTW, when posting to mailing lists, please keep any attachments small.) - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk1aVzcACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecp+tACeIcHizkblRe7SF2ChgEGJ5d5J q74AoJOiEfvZb/SLUqGkQxSxRPpunwZV =RdDa -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Implementation of a built-in screencaster in Unity like there is in GNOME Shell
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 ks64 wrote on 01/02/11 18:27: Despite all the hype about Unity, there is one thing that is making me miss GNOME Shell: built-in screencasting. Press Ctrl+Shift+Alt+R and you can start and stop screencast recording in GNOME Shell. If a similar feature existed in Unity, it could be an excellent advertising tool: Users could easily record a screencast in Unity and upload it to YouTube, thus building an Ubuntu fan base that could in turn help to overthrow Microsoft's evil empire. There's just one problem: Unity does not have a built-in screencaster! If anyone is interested in implementing a simple combined screenshot and screen recording utility, for Ubuntu to ship by default instead of gnome-screenshot, I would be happy to help them with the design. - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk1ZDNgACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecovLwCgqBYkXoN7+GC76fdHo0j2uJ3H L8wAnjD1cgi9iwwLe8F7HBv6qg5Rqu8W =3/aL -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Left close buttons on tabs
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Paul Sladen wrote on 27/01/11 12:24: On Thu, 27 Jan 2011, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: Chromium and Chrome have close buttons on the right of their tabs because it's faster to use than having them on the left. http://www.theinvisibl.com/2009/12/08/chrometabs/ I fear that the open in middle tab behaviour rather killed that advantage. You now (Firefox default) have to hunt for the tab to close, rather than the most recent tab being at the end. :) ... On the contrary, it means that tabs relating to the same task are grouped together (because they were opened from the same parent tab), so they can be closed together when you are done. Meanwhile, Firefox is adopting the same fast-tab-closing scheme, which means Firefox's close buttons will stay on the right too. http://frankyan.wordpress.com/2010/07/30/making-tab-closing-easy/ https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=465086#c183 - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk1H86UACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecpPaQCgzuxbjTyzi3V02EyQrhIgSVMk MKsAn0iQzaRQJq+6knN7uwtwS2ZIROZr =dSRE -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Ideas for scrollbar's light themes
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Martín A. Casco wrote on 16/01/11 13:22: ... With the last release of Elementary theme, authors include a modd for Scrollbars.. No Steppers. The argument: Users normally don't use them, just use mouse scroll or handle scrollbars. well I think that's true, at least in most cases. I don't think you, or they, have any idea how often people use them. http://imgur.com/6ETb4 But, in NON GTK apps, like LibreOffice, have some problems with that modd. The only solution for elementary it's include steppers. If we think in the actual light themes ( and I don't know if there are any plans about this) have steppers, they are separate and if we want to use theme we have to make a considerable movement for up and down. So, why don't put them together? I've made a mockup only for vertically scrollbars (sorry), but the Idea it's have theme for horizontal scrollbars to. This will make that the 4 steppers will be in the same area and if we want to use them are more easy, fast an simple.. ... That's a great idea. Probably there would be the same problem with non-native applications like LibreOffice and Firefox, though. They would need their own code to recognize the arrows-together setting. Martín A. Casco wrote on 16/01/11 13:39: Well, for my last mail I've been thinking. Maybe 3 steppers for each scrollbar could be more simple. If we are on the top off apps with the mouse and want to use upper stepper we have to go down with the mouse (thats the concept of my first mockup), this solution its not better at all. So maybe this mockup represents better the concept of simplicity on scrollbar's steppers. ... That's what KDE does. But it goes against the principle of parsimony: having two similarly accessible methods of doing the same thing slows people down, by making them dither. (For example, it's okay to have a title bar close button and a Close menu item, but having two close buttons is bad. Similarly, having two scroll-up buttons would be bad.) - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk1BlNwACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecpy0QCeO9TQD1dfn//D/HqAGDgutCV9 rsgAn2KZvFSMVyOb6cv9sf4S9B7NwW4w =d2iH -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Left close buttons on tabs
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Valeryan_24 wrote on 17/01/11 09:41: ... As Ubuntu now has Close - Minimize - Maximize buttons on right side of the window, as Unity panel will be on the left side of screen, I wonder if it would be possible also to get the X close buttons on tabs put to the left for the applications which are using tabs : Firefox - Thunderbird - Libre Office - Empathy - Nautilus - Gedit - Shutter... ... Chromium and Chrome have close buttons on the right of their tabs because it's faster to use than having them on the left. http://www.theinvisibl.com/2009/12/08/chrometabs/ So that probably won't change any time soon. - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk1BozgACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecqzbQCglxQOJjtAGDJHYWk9DXuNGBoQ VO8AoIi/w6TbZkWKPOYmzXSayL1NfC8a =ILOF -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] App Name as a Menu
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Owais Lone wrote on 15/01/11 14:03: I was just wondering if we could replace the window title in the panel with an application menu like firefox. Since we are also trying to move away from a menu bars, I think this could be a nice addition to the Unity desktop. We aren't moving away from menu bars, and even if we were, adding another menu wouldn't help. :-) This would also allow apps like Firefox and Opera to push their new menu buttons in the panel/titlebar in a sane way. ... The designers of Firefox and Opera are trying to reduce the amount of stuff inside their windows. Compressing them into a menu button is one way of doing that. A simpler and more consistent way, for an application running on Ubuntu, is to use the native Ubuntu menu bar. - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk01yhkACgkQ6PUxNfU6eco1yQCgoEccJ+Kf/45HBbbctB2hByHl w+QAoJxBfS0e3emzkurcfCaTo1zBTdsh =vR/8 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] I don't think global menu and the panel is good for a touch OS
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Thamawij Pirajnaraporn wrote on 13/01/11 21:40: ... I have seen the 10.10 netbook and 11.04 Alpha, Unity dock is a big improvement but I think global menu is not a good idea with the following reasons. (At first I though it was a modified gnome panel) * Panel-based OS certainly not work for touch OS because : o panels take precious horizontal space of a widescreen and it's not match for vertical either. A small panel at the edge of screen is really hard to touch it precisely and increasing the size is just wasting screen space. Ubuntu's multi-touch framework allows for occasional touch gestures, and provides one of the ingredients for a touch OS. But Ubuntu is not a touch OS. If anyone did make a good touch OS based on Ubuntu, it would not have a small panel at the edge of the screen (or at least, not one with multiple target areas), for the reasons you give. Especially for netbooks with 1024x600 screen resolution. Netbooks are not touch devices either. Some netbooks may have touch screens, but expecting people to use a vertical touch screen for any substantial period would be disregarding how human arms work. o This will just follow the Microsoft Windows 7 mistake, it sucks on netbook with touchscreen. I have tried both Unity and Windows 7 on Lenovo S10-3 and I barely use touch screen because it's so annoying when you miss a touch. What will happen if small Close/Minimize/Maximize buttons went on the top edge ? Any sensible touch-based OS would not have Close buttons, Minimize buttons, or Maximize buttons. That has nothing to do with where the menu bar is in a pointer-based OS. * Implementing global would be worthy if it had been done a few years ago but doing it now is out-of-date since touchscreen is coming. If the aim is to persuade the users from Mac with the similar interface with a plus of a Unity dock then this is a big mistake (I just guess for the reason, may be I'm wrong), in contrast Ubuntu users that affordable for a Mac would go for it. Ubuntu would be compared as a second class product that following around the successors. ... We're using a unified menu bar in Ubuntu not to persuade the users from the Mac with the similar interface, but because we think it's the best way of presenting menus in a pointer-based interface. A pointer-based interface takes advantage of screen-edge targets (like the menu bar), compact controls (like menus), and tooltips (as in the Unity launcher). A touch-based interface takes advantage of flicking (like for scrolling), and complex drags (like twisting to rotate an object). They are very different things, and a design that works well for one will hardly ever work well for the other. Cheers - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk01zYYACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecpZrACgsjPk+hYY+lvWkw5aW2Cl09W+ L2sAoKd2Rc4G8Sv7JEyfr07EGCvbxo+5 =SmO+ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Ayatana] Ambiance/Radiance theme annoyances
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Cimi and Otto Since you are having a theme sprint next week, I've taken a couple of hours to write up a Top Ten list of my least favorite theme problems in Natty. (This also prompted me to report some as bugs that weren't reported already.) Some of these are implementation bugs. Some are design decisions that perhaps had unintended consequences. And some may be GTK problems. - From least to most important: 10. The focus ring for combo boxes and spin boxes is incomplete: it goes around only three sides, not around the menubutton or spin buttons. http://launchpad.net/bugs/702504 9. Progress bar trough corners are rounded but not transparent, and therefore ugly against any background color other than the default. Either they should not be rounded (which I would prefer), or they should be transparent. http://launchpad.net/bugs/606942 8. The table column headings in Evolution and in Claws Mail have rounded corners. This is ugly because it leaves crevices between and around the headings. It's also inconsistent with the column headings in Nautilus and Firefox. http://launchpad.net/bugs/702519 7. The menubutton for combo boxes (which GTK calls ComboBoxEntry) has one triangle pointing downwards, suggesting that the menu (almost always) opens downwards; this is correct. Option menus (which GTK erroneously calls ComboBox) also have only one triangle, pointing downwards; this is misleading, because the menu opens both upwards and downwards. Option menus should have a pair of triangles pointing up and down, as they do in Clearlooks. http://launchpad.net/bugs/702531 6. If the first or last item in a menu has a separator adjacent to it, the item is closer to the end of the menu than it is to the separator, which doesn't really make sense. Cimi has already fixed this, the fix just hasn't appeared in Natty yet. http://launchpad.net/bugs/659866 5. The only distinction between the title of an open menu and the title of a closed one is an outline drawn in a slightly different shade of black. This makes it difficult to tell which menu is open (especially at the trailing end of the menu bar, where several indicator menus hug the edge of the screen), and it is inconsistent with the highlighting used for submenu titles and other menu items. The simple solution is to use the same white-on-orange highlighting for menu titles as you do for menu items. http://launchpad.net/bugs/702536 4. Rounded scrollbar buttons work okay in dialog-style windows, because they aren't touching anything. But they look ugly in document-style windows, where the scrollbar touches anything else -- for example Nautilus, Firefox, Evolution, OpenOffice.org, Terminal, or Ubuntu Software Center. The corners need to be square. http://launchpad.net/bugs/702544 3. The title bar of a window that has its own menus appears to be one pixel taller than the title bar of a window that hasn't. (I guess what is really happening is that the menu bar is still being displayed, one pixel high.) 2. There is very little difference between the title bar of the focused window vs. unfocused windows. For the unified menu bar to work well, this distinction needs to be crystal clear. http://launchpad.net/bugs/534799 1. There is no difference between the light grey chrome color of the focused window and the light grey chrome color of unfocused windows. Again, this distinction needs to be crystal clear. http://launchpad.net/bugs/534799 0. Ambiance uses a dark menu bar, which is needlessly hard to read, inconsistent with the rest of the theme http://launchpad.net/bugs/573292, makes disabled menu titles practically invisible http://launchpad.net/bugs/627796, and causes dark-on-light option menus and combo boxes to unexpectedly become light-on-dark when they unroll http://launchpad.net/bugs/533175. This was a deliberate decision, though, so I'm not expecting that it will be fixed in the near future. I could list many other visual glitches, but that's probably enough for a start. :-) Cheers - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk0vguMACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecphHgCgy7Gbufg6UgqklJalxT7aVY2r gzwAnjl7j8+CTFXhZDbW/dJsiG8TLXDb =6EWt -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Me Messaging Indicator Menu
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frederik.nn...@gmail.com wrote on 28/12/10 20:40:
MPT, here's shot at it, i took my time to do it in Inkscape now ;)
it portrays a new Me/Messaging Menu layout.
That's intriguing. I don't understand what the gap is for, though, or
how the bottom items work. Are they expanding sections?
So that people can easily tell where where one menu stops and the next
begins, all menu titles need to be one icon and/or (preferably or) one
piece of text. Three icons plus text is way too much.
state:
* DoNotDisturb is off
* About Me needs a good place to go
I think Gnome 3 is (finally!) abandoning About Me anyway.
* no new IM conversations ('cause i'm not sure how to populate that
view best)
* no status text field for now..
A design for something like this needs to still look okay when including
all possible elements. You can decide to abolish particular elements,
but it needs to be deliberate. :-)
* real name in panel, consistent with GDM greeter
That should still be optional (because some people have wide names), so
if we don't have About Me, we'd need to figure out somewhere else to put
the option.
tbh, i still don't see the significance of having available, invisible
and offline in the menu, nevertheless here it is, by the spec.
They're three distinct states in most IM clients. But that's probably
better discussed in the do not disturb thread.
In our effort to reduce the number of icons in the UI, i also omitted
the dot that would identify which Presence state is currently enabled.
I think that should be obvious, since it is shown in the panel already,
and there are more icon-free ways of highlighting stuff as active,
Perhaps the text busy should be bold-faced?
...
Whether the status is in the title depends on how you fix the title (to
not have three icons any more). But regardless, simplifying this menu by
presenting a one-of-several state (IM status) in a custom way would make
Ubuntu's *overall* interface more complex. People would need to learn
two ways that Ubuntu presented one-of-several states, rather than one.
- --
mpt
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Re: [Ayatana] Messaging Menu and the MeMenu
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Conscious User wrote on 20/12/10 11:57: ... I think the Messaging Menu *should* be purely an inbox, because one of the most common complaints against the notifications redesign is how reacting to IM/mail notifications is now less efficient (opening an menu and looking for an entry instead of simply clicking on the tray icon). I personally think that the difference is negligible, but *only* if the menu is not too cluttered. If a mail client's users are annoyed that it notifies them of new mail in a uselessly non-interactive way, maybe it should stop doing that. Maybe it should instead use just the messaging menu and a distinctive sound, for example. But leaving that aside, I don't see how that has anything to do with the design of the messaging menu. How do you get from non-interactive IM/mail notifications are inefficient to the messaging menu should not have an element for posting to Twitter? Maybe it's true that there shouldn't be *any* menu containing an item for posting to Twitter, but not for that reason. I don't think the current separation between the Message and Me menus is necessarily a bad thing. I believe it only needs some refinement, both in design and implementation, to show that the idea of thinking functionality-wise (inbox vs. outbox) instead of application-wise (empathy, evolution, etc.) is not absurd as it seems at a first glance. Even if something is great once you get used to it, if it's absurd at first glance that's still a big design problem. Some things that get in the way of this objective now: - Shortcuts for configuring im/microblog accounts in the Me Menu. This overlaps with the messaging menu directly and keeping those entries there does not make sense once the accounts are configured... the Messaging Menu does it more correctly, showing them only if no accounts are configured If the menus were merged, probably we would need to jettison the accounts items. - Ubuntu One in the Me Menu... I don't think it really fits. Agreed. - Contacts and Compose in the Messaging Menu... having two outbox entries lost in the middle looks and feels wrong... and adds clutter ... How are they outbox entries? - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk0m5fcACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecrUhwCfTEn9g9vlLSnWfmgRGQ3IaBQv eZYAn0vmJ+tMXe5uOEYCeqtobZ59G8Tm =0LCX -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Me Messaging Indicator Menu
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 dani wrote on 31/12/10 14:24: i made some mockups that i think are a good and simple solution for this problem, i hope you like: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Maverick/redesign_memenu%26mesagemenu ... I do like. That's the best design I've seen so far. The IM statuses are a bit awkward as a submenu. The harder it is to set my status to Away, the less likely it is that I'll bother at all. Maybe we could make room for IM statuses in the top-level menu, by taking an idea from Conscious User and dropping the Contact List and New Message items. - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk0m52AACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecoFpwCdEYadpxi0kFhAxt2umkTvfHY7 z+0AoMHFFojUDt7zbGdwxgoJGY6VCZYY =eg66 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Do Not Disturb
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 frederik.nn...@gmail.com wrote on 02/01/11 05:13: ... today, i was working on some UML, trying myself with a complex diagram. I'm so so bad with UML, so i was forced to focus and concentrate, i wanted to be undisturbed. The music i put on in Banshee (hell i had to start banshee first, i couldn't simply click play on my XF86 play button) helped me smooth out the waves in my mind, so i could focus better. Now after the first song of my soothing album had finished completed, NotifyOSD displayed album art and songinfo of the next song.. an intrusion! It took away my focus for a second, we sometimes have notifications up there that we don't wanna miss, so i looked at the ethereal bubble as it appeared up there.. and boom - i was distracted/disturbed. This would be a good opportunity for someone with spare time to do a competitor analysis. iTunes doesn't have notification bubbles for track changes. Does Windows Media Player? Does foobar2000? Does Songbird? If so, are they on by default, and how do you turn them on and off? ... Obviously, what i needed today to achieve undisturbedness i needed to achieve my goals in focused work was nothing less than a Notifications Off button, or even better: a Do Not Disturb toggle. ... If people are annoyed by unwanted notification bubbles from Banshee, which do you think they'll guess the purpose of more easily? (a) a do not disturb item in the me menu (b) a Bubbles for Track Changes item in Banshee's View menu You could argue that turning off notification bubbles temporarily in individual applications is inefficient. Part of the attractiveness of having IM statuses in the Me menu is that (at least in theory) they save you from having to make the same change in multiple applications. But that efficiency isn't much use if people won't learn it in the first place. - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk0m7xgACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecrCswCZAQm27v/ZeYmBLsXFiwBIzDVe 9YsAnA/ol6SIDci+EWjcnfgxJokgvRtb =boTU -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Desktop Silent Mode
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 frederik.nn...@gmail.com wrote on 17/12/10 15:18: ... On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 14:58, Matthew Paul Thomas m...@canonical.com ... frederik.nn...@gmail.com mailto:frederik.nn...@gmail.com wrote on 16/12/10 18:42: ... * Presence has no local effect * Presence has no effect on Skype (except with Pidgin running) - https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-me/+bug/684678 * System Sounds are not connected with notifications (perhaps with Dylan's patch?) None of those are the reason. exactly, they merely contribute to the problem somehow, as you will elaborate later in your mail.. i'd like to add another issue that contributes to the problem: We have no connected to the internet indicator. https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/lucid-online-status That looks like a useful feature, but I don't understand how it's relevant to this discussion. The main reason is that, as you say, Busy aka DoNotDisturb has been around for as long as i know Presence in IM, and no-one has ever gotten around the problem that (a) having to go online with your IM account for the purpose of being interrupted *less* often would be daft, and I did! ;) (perhaps a mail that never left /drafts) : * put an ON|OFF toggle for IM into the MeMenu You did. But that is exactly what I meant by (b) any design that works around that by making 'being online' a separate thing from being in 'do not disturb' mode would make IM slower and more complicated to use. * always keep Presence controls active, regardless of IM¹ What use would that be? How would you avoid wasting people's time, by wrongly implying that it's useful for them to toggle between brb and In a meeting (for example) when they're not even online? * remove Available, since it is identical with the regular Presence state for IM and the Desktop Session What regular presence state? * remove Offline, since it is identical to IM = OFF That would make instant messaging state more difficult to understand in Ubuntu than in any other OS. * allow checking and unchecking Away OR Busy * make Invisible an extra checkbox, orthogonal to the other Presence controls. [perhaps rename to visible] What use would that be? What's the useful distinction between Invisible + Available and Invisible + Away? This is why i mentioned invisible in the first place. For those who want to appear as busy or do not disturb on IM, while keeping notifications ON (unmuted), we can leave an override interface in Empathy, as Contact List currently has. Me Menu Presence controls should remain the Master controls for all clients who obey the User's wish for privacy as commanded via Me Menu. I don't understand what this has to do with privacy. What do you mean? ... I need a way of guaranteeing that during a high level staff meeting, my presentation will absolutely not be interrupted by anything. ... That's not practical. We'll still interrupt you when you have only a few minutes battery left, or when your hard disk is dying -- as well we should. So, any global knob would be for fewer interruptions, not no interruptions. And this would make it impractical to communicate. Fewer than what, exactly? And why would people ever *not* choose fewer interruptions? How would this be different from saying to them, Sorry, the makers of Ubuntu are too incompetent to design software. Why don't you have a go? ... ¹ allowing the user to set his desired state of Availability *before* activating IM allows for going online in a desired state, instead of being limited to being Available by default Letting people switch from Offline to their desired state without the IM client running would achieve exactly the same purpose, twice as fast. - -- Matthew Paul Thomas http://mpt.net.nz/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk0jM5UACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecpxDwCdFcoAl7ZLFyQhC3QNZqa2NuPR b74AnjSNB2hF4Oe+7vgVmy0VtMGgTKhj =HkWz -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
