Brett Cornwall wrote:
> It all boils down to customization. I really feel that the way to make
> everyone happy is to have reasonable configuration for notify-OSD.
> Being able to choose the position easily and whether the policy is
> fixed or dynamic would allow peace to any that are dissatisfied.
Hello Mark,
On Wed, 2009-10-21 at 11:09 +0100, Mark Shuttleworth wrote:
> First, we get much better collaboration and communication,
Do we? The first thing I've noticed from this experimental opinionated
stance is a tendency to alienate and frustrate people who want to
collaborate. There are peop
I quote Mark from earlier in this list:
There's always a temptation, when two smart and well-meaning people can't
agree, to add an option so they can both get what they want. It "costs
nothing" to add the checkbox, and it creates the illusion of consensus
because "we can each have what we want" wh
On Wed, 2009-10-21 at 13:37 +0200, Victor wrote:
> I quote Mark from earlier in this list:
> There's always a temptation, when two smart and well-meaning people
> can't agree, to add an option so they can both get what they want. It
> "costs nothing" to add the checkbox, and it creates the illusio
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 1:13 PM, Martin Owens wrote:
> [...] The first thing I've noticed from this experimental opinionated
> stance is a tendency to alienate and frustrate people who want to
> collaborate. There are people who will give up their personal visions
> for yours without lots of hard
Martin Owens wrote:
> Hello Mark,
>
> On Wed, 2009-10-21 at 11:09 +0100, Mark Shuttleworth wrote:
>
>> First, we get much better collaboration and communication,
>>
>
> Do we? The first thing I've noticed from this experimental opinionated
> stance is a tendency to alienate and frustrate pe
>It certainly doesn't sound like "I am because of my community", it
> sounds like "I am because of what Mark likes to see". Scary in a way.
>This can also work the other way around. I could say that your
> my-customized-to-the-last-pixel-way-or-the-highway stance is a pretty selfish
> one,
Mark Shuttleworth wrote:
A guiding principle in Ayatana is to *reduce* customisation, not
increase it.
Then I am afraid that you are going to lose a lot of interest from lots
of people. I really do understand your intentions, and I think they are
wonderful, but there is a happy medium
> In general, no. If the ideas they express are better, but the metrics we can
> bring to bear (including the view of the people to whom the design
> leadership has been given) then those patches can be included without
> options, the default behaviour will be improved for all. If they just create
> Look at it this way, every decision you make when designing software,
> you weigh up the pros and cons of all the options before you make it.
> When neither option has any concrete benefit over the other, that's
> when it's down to personal preference and that (I would argue) is when
> you make i
2009/10/21 Paulo J. S. Silva
> In my humble opinion this is one of best ways to end a conversation:
> takes your "opponent" point of view and turn it into a caricature that
> make it sound unreasonable.
>
Well, I thing exposing the weaknesses in other people's argumentation is at
the core of any
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 3:16 PM, Luke Benstead wrote:
> [...] I think the reason that notify-osd's positioning is a particular
> sticking point with many people is that it is something where no
> default location will suit the majority of people. Users with visual
> problems, non-default layouts,
>
> So, probably, the solution is rather to find some clever algorithm that
> places them dynamically based on the current desktop conditions, but we
> won't be motivated to search for this algorithm if we resort to creating
> more options as soon as someone complaints.
Heh, OK you've almost won m
On Wed, 2009-10-21 at 13:02 +0100, Mark Shuttleworth wrote:
> Sometimes folks actually want to push their own ideas, and think
> that's collaboration. That's not going to work here, because we have a
> core driver already.
There is a difference between push and contribute. It's typically in
th
>
>
>
> > > I believe it will drive people away, hurt
> > > upstreams, a number of side streams and limited sections of downstream.
> > >
> > What does that mean exactly? I think you're mouthing off because you
> > don't like the idea of having to go with something you don't
> > personally like occ
I just realized that I mistakenly posted the following directly to Mark
Shuttleworth yesterday in error (mistakes abound when you can't see well), and
felt that it should be shared with all:
"I'd like to clarify something and make a possible suggestion that may
or may not even be possible or via
Luke Benstead wrote:
> The only thing against that is what Mark said about the async
> notifications growing upwards, but I still don't see why that's a
> problem (it would look pretty cool if the existing text moved up, then
> the new line faded in below).
That would be worth a flash mockup, or co
On Wed, 2009-10-21 at 17:31 +0200, Alex Lourie wrote:
>
>
>
> Ok, hold on a second. How come the presence or absence of options in
> some
> quite experimental software DESTROYS moment of Linux Desktop??? I
> can't understand
> how is it that after so many work being put into the opera
I'd like to extend an offer to Ayatana to have a section in the Kubuntu
release announcement descrbing what you have brought to Kubuntu in this
cycle. It would also be a good venue for exposing users to the
experimental functions that were included.
It will be on the Kubuntu web site, so we ca
Jim Rorie wrote:
>>> I notice that you don't insist upon one application per
>>> function available in the repositories or launchpad PPAs.
>>>
>>>
>> Of course not. Nor would I resist there being many branches of
>> notify-osd. But I will resist calls for "this should be an option".
>>
2009/10/21 Mark Shuttleworth :
> Luke Benstead wrote:
>
> The only thing against that is what Mark said about the async
> notifications growing upwards, but I still don't see why that's a
> problem (it would look pretty cool if the existing text moved up, then
> the new line faded in below).
>
> Th
On Wed, 2009-10-21 at 13:29 -0400, Jim Rorie wrote:
> I'm not talking about visible checkboxes or customization
> applications.
> Don't go the KDE route. Give power users/admins access to gconf for a
> few variables that could have a big impact on user experience.
As a developer on the DX team do
On Wed, 2009-10-21 at 18:09 +0100, Mark Shuttleworth wrote:
> That would be worth a flash mockup, or code mockup, to see in
> practice.
>
Hi,
Here is a tentative clutter mockup:
http://bitbucket.org/proppy/clutter-repl/raw/2f7b36efb1fe/logs/session13.ogv
Luke, let me know if it implements prope
2009/10/21 Johan Euphrosine :
> On Wed, 2009-10-21 at 18:09 +0100, Mark Shuttleworth wrote:
>> That would be worth a flash mockup, or code mockup, to see in
>> practice.
>>
>
> Hi,
>
> Here is a tentative clutter mockup:
> http://bitbucket.org/proppy/clutter-repl/raw/2f7b36efb1fe/logs/session13.ogv
2009/10/21 Luke Benstead :
> You legend! Yeah, exactly that kind of thing, I think it would look pretty
> cool.
>
> Thanks a lot!
>
> So, good idea?
Are you actually suggesting that messages that stay visible for longer
should bob up and down depending on whether there is a newer message
beneath
2009/10/21 Matt Wheeler :
> 2009/10/21 Luke Benstead :
>> You legend! Yeah, exactly that kind of thing, I think it would look pretty
>> cool.
>>
>> Thanks a lot!
>>
>> So, good idea?
>
> Are you actually suggesting that messages that stay visible for longer
> should bob up and down depending on wh
Regarding the desktop vision, I think it has improved awesomely. The
notification area is much more stylish and useful, the current default theme
and icons of gnome has a refreshing air over it and yet not moving away from
the characteristic colors that defines the Ubuntu distribution. I experien
Johan Euphrosine wrote:
> On Wed, 2009-10-21 at 18:09 +0100, Mark Shuttleworth wrote:
>
>> That would be worth a flash mockup, or code mockup, to see in
>> practice.
>>
>>
>
> Hi,
>
> Here is a tentative clutter mockup:
> http://bitbucket.org/proppy/clutter-repl/raw/2f7b36efb1fe/logs/sessio
Scott Kitterman wrote:
I'd like to extend an offer to Ayatana to have a section in the Kubuntu
release announcement descrbing what you have brought to Kubuntu in this
cycle. It would also be a good venue for exposing users to the
experimental functions that were included.
It will be on the K
On Wed, 2009-10-21 at 20:20 +0100, Matt Wheeler wrote:
> Are you actually suggesting that messages that stay visible for longer
> should bob up and down depending on whether there is a newer message
> beneath it?
> (if that is not the case then perhaps the messages in the video need
> to be number
Cody, this is an excellent post.
It's the best explanation of the project's reasoning, without the hard
edge. You will still get push back, but now you have a concise,
coherent argument that isn't quite so authoritarian. This really needs
to go in a FAQ.
Jim
On Wed, 2009-10-21 at 13:36 -05
Johan Euphrosine wrote:
> Here is better mockup:
> http://bitbucket.org/proppy/clutter-repl/raw/4b8460e1e300/logs/session14.ogv
>
Can you get rid of the blank line between the lines of text, just to
tighten it up? And can you make it more real, like put a couple of lines
in there in one hit, the
Mark Shuttleworth wrote:
Johan Euphrosine wrote:
Here is better mockup:
http://bitbucket.org/proppy/clutter-repl/raw/4b8460e1e300/logs/session14.ogv
Let's hear what others think.
It feels odd to read from the bottom to the top. I played around with moving
things on the screen upwards and
2009/10/21 Martin Albisetti :
> Mark Shuttleworth wrote:
>>
>> Johan Euphrosine wrote:
>>>
>>> Here is better mockup:
>>>
>>> http://bitbucket.org/proppy/clutter-repl/raw/4b8460e1e300/logs/session14.ogv
>>>
>>
>> Let's hear what others think.
>
> It feels odd to read from the bottom to the top. I p
On Wed, 2009-10-21 at 18:46 +0100, Luke Benstead wrote:
>
> Err.. ok... anyone any good with Flash? Or could someone point me at
> an OSS app that makes Flash animations?
The only thing close enough would be to hack some SVG using Inkscape and
a text editor, add on the FakeSmile javascript librar
On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 21:57:07 +0200 David Barth
wrote:
>Scott Kitterman wrote:
>> I'd like to extend an offer to Ayatana to have a section in the Kubuntu
>> release announcement descrbing what you have brought to Kubuntu in this
>> cycle. It would also be a good venue for exposing users to the
On Wed, 2009-10-21 at 21:00 +0100, Mark Shuttleworth wrote:
> Can you get rid of the blank line between the lines of text, just to
> tighten it up? And can you make it more real, like put a couple of
> lines in there in one hit, then add a few others with random timing,
> as if it were someone typi
> 2009/10/21 Martin Albisetti :
> > Mark Shuttleworth wrote:
> >>
> >> Johan Euphrosine wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Here is better mockup:
> >>>
> >>> http://bitbucket.org/proppy/clutter-repl/raw/4b8460e1e300/logs/session14.ogv
> >>>
> >>
> >> Let's hear what others think.
> >
> > It feels odd to read from
2009/10/21 mac_v :
> What we could do is:
> - Place the Async bubbles in the lower right, at a height keeping in
> mind the max[10 lines] allowed for append. So the bubble is in the lower
> right position but not exactly in the corner. This would make the
> bubbles not have a problem of scrollin
Another interesting idea would be just to flip what we currently have so
that sync notifications are at the bottom right, and then async grow
vertically above them. This would make the async notifications more like it
IM window itself, where new text appears at the bottom and old text scrolls
up, a
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