Re: [backstage] DRM does not work... what next?

2007-06-16 Thread David Woodhouse
On Fri, 2007-06-15 at 21:52 +0100, Andy Leighton wrote: Steady on - why not Z80, OK a bit limited but the Z8 was 32bit and about the same time as some of those above? Basically some of the listed processors above are dead for general-purpose computing in the home and they are used by a

Re: [backstage] DRM does not work... what next?

2007-06-16 Thread mike chamberlain
On 6/15/07, Andy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 15/06/07, Richard Lockwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You've obviously not read the numerous posts explaining in some detail why it *isn't* currently feasible Must have missed that one. Can you show in detail the point at which it says you MUST use

Re: [backstage] www.FreeTheBBC.info

2007-06-16 Thread Kim Plowright
On 15/06/07, Andy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It takes people outside the media-land as you put it because the people inside are too ignorant of technology to understand it. If media people had known even the very basics of how a PC works then we would never have had DRM in the first place. snip

Re: [backstage] DRM does not work... what next?

2007-06-16 Thread Andy
On 15/06/07, Richard Lockwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You really are a fucking twat, aren't you? Rich. Resorting to personal insults because you can't win an argument? What is so wrong with suggesting you publish said agreements? If they are published and I missed it, then I am sorry but

Re: [backstage] DRM does not work... what next?

2007-06-16 Thread Andy
On 16/06/07, mike chamberlain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I believe the actual facts are... 1. Rights holders insist on time limited DRM solution. 2. Only Microsoft supports a time limited DRM. 3. Therefore, in order to conform to point 1, BBC have to use Microsoft based DRM. I accept axiom 1.

Re: [backstage] DRM does not work... what next?

2007-06-16 Thread Michael Sparks
On Saturday 16 June 2007 12:43, Andy wrote: To be neutral on platform the BBC's iPlayer will need to run on every platform that has existed, that does exist, or will exist in the future Picking out this one point, this is bogus, unless you are suggesting that iPlayer should run on a ZX81 (In

Re: [backstage] DRM does not work... what next?

2007-06-16 Thread Andy
On 16/06/07, Michael Sparks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Platform neutrality means it should not favour any one specific system. That's not what platform neutral means. It means it shouldn't favour any specific system or systems. If there was a war between 4 nations, (called A, B, C, D) would you

Re: [backstage] DRM does not work... what next?

2007-06-16 Thread David Woodhouse
On Sat, 2007-06-16 at 10:19 +0100, mike chamberlain wrote: 1. Rights holders insist on time limited DRM solution. 2. Only Microsoft supports a time limited DRM. 3. Therefore, in order to conform to point 1, BBC have to use Microsoft based DRM. I would phrase it slightly differently. 1.

Re: [backstage] www.FreeTheBBC.info

2007-06-16 Thread Dave Crossland
On 16/06/07, Kim Plowright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 15/06/07, Andy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It takes people outside the media-land as you put it because the people inside are too ignorant of technology to understand it. Please be aware that your statements in this email can be read as a

Re: [backstage] www.FreeTheBBC.info

2007-06-16 Thread Dave Crossland
On 15/06/07, Ian Betteridge [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you want to win over content creators *show* them how they can make as much money through sharing as they can make from restricting sharing. This is like arguing that a dictator will start free elections if it can be down the economy

Re: [backstage] DRM does not work... what next?

2007-06-16 Thread Michael Sparks
On Saturday 16 June 2007 15:04, Andy wrote: Platform neutrality means it should not favour any one specific system. That's not what platform neutral means. It means it shouldn't favour any specific system or systems. Huh??? I wrote: me it should not favour any one specific system. you it

Re: [backstage] www.FreeTheBBC.info

2007-06-16 Thread vijay chopra
There are many media people living in their London-centric bubble (a.k.amedia-land) who as Andy's email said, are totally ignorant of the basics of modern technology. That isn't an insult, but a fact simply by virtue of the fact that much of the general population couldn't tell you how a PC works

Re: [backstage] www.FreeTheBBC.info

2007-06-16 Thread Ian Betteridge
On 16/06/07, Dave Crossland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote So production companies who ask to justify software freedom and file sharing on the basis of how much money it makes are missing the point. We must not restrict sharing because it is unethical. We must not use proprietary software because it

Re: [backstage] www.FreeTheBBC.info

2007-06-16 Thread Ian Betteridge
On 16/06/07, Dave Crossland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Many media industry professionals are on record stating their believe that DRM can work to halt unauthorised sharing, Many? Links please.

Re: [backstage] www.FreeTheBBC.info

2007-06-16 Thread Ian Betteridge
On 16/06/07, vijay chopra [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There are many media people living in their London-centric bubble (a.k.amedia-land) who as Andy's email said, are totally ignorant of the basics of modern technology. That isn't an insult, but a fact simply by virtue of the fact that much of

Re: [backstage] www.FreeTheBBC.info

2007-06-16 Thread vijay chopra
In which case, there's no point in taking this conversation further, for two reasons. First, you're also ethically opposed to the existence of the BBC - an organisation which exists because copyright material exists, I thought the purpose of the BBC was to inform, educate and entertain. none

Re: [backstage] BBC Audio Music at Hackday

2007-06-16 Thread Daithi O Crualaoich
That is some really neat stuff. The RadioPlayer data alone is making me drool. Are these feeds are a one-time only deal? Or can every day be Hack Day? Daithi On 6/16/07, Tristan Ferne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We've got a load of new data, feeds and applications and Hackday.

Re: [backstage] www.FreeTheBBC.info

2007-06-16 Thread David Woodhouse
On Sat, 2007-06-16 at 17:45 +0100, Ian Betteridge wrote: No ad hominem attacks there, then. I could, of course, start talking about arrogant techies who think they know it all - but I'll refrain. For the record... Ad Hominem (lit. 'against the man'¹) is the logical fallacy where you discount

Re: [backstage] www.FreeTheBBC.info

2007-06-16 Thread vijay chopra
On 16/06/07, Ian Betteridge [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 16/06/07, vijay chopra [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There are many media people living in their London-centric bubble (a.k.amedia-land) who as Andy's email said, are totally ignorant of the basics of modern technology. That isn't an

Re: [backstage] www.FreeTheBBC.info

2007-06-16 Thread Michael Sparks
On Saturday 16 June 2007 18:13, vijay chopra wrote: They don't need to  know how a PC works, but I'll bet  many couldn't even pass an ECDL or CLAIT course (reflecting society as a whole); I wouldn't claim to be able to plan a city without some relevant  qualifications. Do we really have to

RE: [backstage] BBC Audio Music at Hackday

2007-06-16 Thread Tristan Ferne
Most are going to persist in one form or another. But not the RadioPlayer feeds, sorry :( Tristan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Daithi O Crualaoich Sent: Sat 6/16/2007 6:09 PM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] BBC Audio Music at Hackday

Re: [backstage] www.FreeTheBBC.info

2007-06-16 Thread vijay chopra
On 16/06/07, Michael Sparks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Saturday 16 June 2007 18:13, vijay chopra wrote: They don't need to know how a PC works, but I'll bet many couldn't even pass an ECDL or CLAIT course (reflecting society as a whole); I wouldn't claim to be able to plan a city without

Re: [backstage] BBC Audio Music at Hackday

2007-06-16 Thread Daithi O Crualaoich
No, that's pretty understandable about the RadioPlayer. There's far too much potential for abuse in structuring the scheduling data with direct links to the media. Pity, though, I was looking forward to making playlists in Listen Again. Daithi On 6/16/07, Tristan Ferne [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [backstage] BBC Audio Music at Hackday

2007-06-16 Thread Laurence Samuels
Hi Tristan Would the Hackday be recorded and streamed? L On 16/06/07, Tristan Ferne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Most are going to persist in one form or another. But not the RadioPlayer feeds, sorry :( Tristan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Daithi O