Re: [backstage] BBC DRM iplayer mobiles etc
I note that Stephen Fry has posted this, which seems to cover it quite well.. 'I have opened myself to charges of the most monstrous hypocrisy by championing open source and free software while simultaneously using proprietary systems here and there, hither and yon. I hold my hand up to the sin of being inconsistent – hypocrisy is going a bit far I think. I am no purist or fanatic when it comes to computing, software and the internet, or when it comes to anything, come to that: I like the idea of open source and free software, but I can't honestly find it in my heart to boycott any individual, company or consortium that patents its routines, algorithms, codes or protocols and chooses to make money from of its research, innovation and ingenuity. As in all things I'm a muddled, hand-wringing liberal who believes in a mixed economy. I don't think freedom is indivisible. I can contemplate regulation and entrepreneurialism, cooperatives and corporations, open source and proprietary systems all coexisting. In the end I like structures that are human-shaped, not idea-shaped and humans are great heaps of inconsistency, ambiguity and complexity. All I'm saying is that if you expect this to be a kind of Open Source madrassah you will be disappointed.' Which you can take also as an ad for http://www.stephenfry.com/blog/?p=61 2008/10/15 Dave Crossland [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2008/10/15 Phil Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Yes, the fact that this will run on all the Linux PCs in both my houseand office is a shockingly pro-Microsoft move and must be stopped! The fact that this will run only with proprietary software is continuing the BBC's discriminatory policy against software freedom, and it must be stopped. Dave Personal opinion only. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Brian Butterworth http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002
RE: [backstage] BBC DRM iplayer mobiles etc
Am I the only person in the world who finds Stephen Fry an unutterable bore? That is a lot of words to use to say Big Fat Nothing. Summed up better as I like the idea of free software but I basically can't be arsed putting myself to any inconvenience Hardly a groundbreaking position for all the talk of human shaped structures (really? did you have to?) As for freedom being divisible? It's too early in the morning for me to deal with that level of meaninglessness. grumpety, grump dee/ Deirdre Harvey :: Web Producer :: BBC Newsline :: Newsroom :: BBC Broadcasting House :: Ormeau Avenue :: Belfast BT2 8HQ :: ph. 02890 338264 http://bbc.co.uk/newsline From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Butterworth Sent: 16 October 2008 07:19 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] BBC DRM iplayer mobiles etc I note that Stephen Fry has posted this, which seems to cover it quite well.. 'I have opened myself to charges of the most monstrous hypocrisy by championing open source and free software while simultaneously using proprietary systems here and there, hither and yon. I hold my hand up to the sin of being inconsistent - hypocrisy is going a bit far I think. I am no purist or fanatic when it comes to computing, software and the internet, or when it comes to anything, come to that: I like the idea of open source and free software, but I can't honestly find it in my heart to boycott any individual, company or consortium that patents its routines, algorithms, codes or protocols and chooses to make money from of its research, innovation and ingenuity. As in all things I'm a muddled, hand-wringing liberal who believes in a mixed economy. I don't think freedom is indivisible. I can contemplate regulation and entrepreneurialism, cooperatives and corporations, open source and proprietary systems all coexisting. In the end I like structures that are human-shaped, not idea-shaped and humans are great heaps of inconsistency, ambiguity and complexity. All I'm saying is that if you expect this to be a kind of Open Source madrassah you will be disappointed.' Which you can take also as an ad for http://www.stephenfry.com/blog/?p=61 2008/10/15 Dave Crossland [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2008/10/15 Phil Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Yes, the fact that this will run on all the Linux PCs in both my houseand office is a shockingly pro-Microsoft move and must be stopped! The fact that this will run only with proprietary software is continuing the BBC's discriminatory policy against software freedom, and it must be stopped. Dave Personal opinion only. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Brian Butterworth http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002
Re: [backstage] BBC DRM iplayer mobiles etc
Brian Butterworth wrote: I note that Stephen Fry has posted this, which seems to cover it quite well.. Hear hear. :-) S - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] BBC DRM iplayer mobiles etc
Are you calling Stephen well covered? Rupert Watson +44 7787554801 www.root6.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Jolly Sent: 16 October 2008 09:02 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] BBC DRM iplayer mobiles etc Brian Butterworth wrote: I note that Stephen Fry has posted this, which seems to cover it quite well.. Hear hear. :-) S ROOT 6 LIMITED Registered in the UK at 4 WARDOUR MEWS, LONDON W1F 8AJ Company No. 03433253 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] BBC DRM iplayer mobiles etc
On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 10:50 AM, Iain Wallace [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Similarly, if Channel 4 want to DRM all their media then it's entirely their choice because they don't have my money and they aren't funded by what amounts to a tax. If I was a Channel 4 shareholder I might raise the same issues of DRM at an AGM I don't think C4 have shareholders, they're a public broadcaster like the BBC (just advertising funded, not tax funded). IIRC, they were originally funded by what amounted to a tax on the ITV companies. This page http://www.channel4.com/about4/overview.html has this - The Corporation's board is appointed by OFCOM in agreement with the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport. So it looks like C4 is shareholder-free.
RE: [backstage] BBC DRM iplayer mobiles etc
Similarly, if Channel 4 want to DRM all their media then it's entirely their choice because they don't have my money and they aren't funded by what amounts to a tax. If I was a Channel 4 shareholder I might raise the same issues of DRM at an AGM. You are a Channel 4 shareholder. In essence. Channel 4 is a publicly owned corporation, and as such, is owned by the population of the UK. It's just a public corporation which is currently not funded by taxation, and instead funded by advertising. That may, or may not, change in the future. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] BBC DRM iplayer mobiles etc
On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 7:19 AM, Brian Butterworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I note that Stephen Fry has posted this, which seems to cover it quite well.. 'I have opened myself to charges of the most monstrous hypocrisy by championing open source and free software while simultaneously using proprietary systems here and there, hither and yon. I hold my hand up to the sin of being inconsistent – hypocrisy is going a bit far I think. I am no purist or fanatic when it comes to computing, software and the internet, or when it comes to anything, come to that: I like the idea of open source and free software, but I can't honestly find it in my heart to boycott any individual, company or consortium that patents its routines, algorithms, codes or protocols and chooses to make money from of its research, innovation and ingenuity. As in all things I'm a muddled, hand-wringing liberal who believes in a mixed economy. I don't think freedom is indivisible. I can contemplate regulation and entrepreneurialism, cooperatives and corporations, open source and proprietary systems all coexisting. In the end I like structures that are human-shaped, not idea-shaped and humans are great heaps of inconsistency, ambiguity and complexity. All I'm saying is that if you expect this to be a kind of Open Source madrassah you will be disappointed.' Which you can take also as an ad for http://www.stephenfry.com/blog/?p=61 Great, but absolutely nothing to do with DRM. The post is in reference to his newly launched site which unlike the old one will be set up in order to generate revenue. If we all paid Stephen Fry a license fee and he'd suddenly started publishing his Podgrammes in DRM'd WMA then it would be a relevant comparison. Similarly, if Channel 4 want to DRM all their media then it's entirely their choice because they don't have my money and they aren't funded by what amounts to a tax. If I was a Channel 4 shareholder I might raise the same issues of DRM at an AGM. On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 8:36 AM, Deirdre Harvey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Am I the only person in the world who finds Stephen Fry an unutterable bore? That's entirely likely. He joined Twitter last week BTW and has been posting some great tweets from Africa so far, including a few pics of Rhinos etc. http://twitter.com/stephenfry Cheers, Iain - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] BBC DRM iplayer mobiles etc
On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 11:47 AM, Scot McSweeney-Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 10:50 AM, Iain Wallace [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Similarly, if Channel 4 want to DRM all their media then it's entirely their choice because they don't have my money and they aren't funded by what amounts to a tax. If I was a Channel 4 shareholder I might raise the same issues of DRM at an AGM I don't think C4 have shareholders, they're a public broadcaster like the BBC (just advertising funded, not tax funded). IIRC, they were originally funded by what amounted to a tax on the ITV companies. This page http://www.channel4.com/about4/overview.html has this - The Corporation's board is appointed by OFCOM in agreement with the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport. So it looks like C4 is shareholder-free. Wow, every day is a school day. I never realised that. Even so, none of my money is going towards Channel 4 so I don't feel like it's any of my business how they digitally distribute their programming. This is entirely aside from the fact that DRM as a technology is moribund and I think it's very foolish for any company to invest seriously in it, especially one that is already broadcasting its content in a better format unencrypted and in a manner which is a lot harder to track than over IP. We already linked to XKCD in this thread didn't we? Oh yes, I see that we did :) - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] BBC DRM iplayer mobiles etc
Thanks for sending this - what a wonderfully eloquent and dignified response... ::: John O'Donovan ::: Chief Architect, BBC FMT Journalism ::: BBC Broadcast Centre ::: 201 Wood Lane, London W12 7TS ::: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ::: http://www.bbc.co.uk http://www.bbc.co.uk/ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Butterworth Sent: 16 October 2008 07:19 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] BBC DRM iplayer mobiles etc I note that Stephen Fry has posted this, which seems to cover it quite well.. 'I have opened myself to charges of the most monstrous hypocrisy by championing open source and free software while simultaneously using proprietary systems here and there, hither and yon. I hold my hand up to the sin of being inconsistent - hypocrisy is going a bit far I think. I am no purist or fanatic when it comes to computing, software and the internet, or when it comes to anything, come to that: I like the idea of open source and free software, but I can't honestly find it in my heart to boycott any individual, company or consortium that patents its routines, algorithms, codes or protocols and chooses to make money from of its research, innovation and ingenuity. As in all things I'm a muddled, hand-wringing liberal who believes in a mixed economy. I don't think freedom is indivisible. I can contemplate regulation and entrepreneurialism, cooperatives and corporations, open source and proprietary systems all coexisting. In the end I like structures that are human-shaped, not idea-shaped and humans are great heaps of inconsistency, ambiguity and complexity. All I'm saying is that if you expect this to be a kind of Open Source madrassah you will be disappointed.' Which you can take also as an ad for http://www.stephenfry.com/blog/?p=61 2008/10/15 Dave Crossland [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2008/10/15 Phil Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Yes, the fact that this will run on all the Linux PCs in both my houseand office is a shockingly pro-Microsoft move and must be stopped! The fact that this will run only with proprietary software is continuing the BBC's discriminatory policy against software freedom, and it must be stopped. Dave Personal opinion only. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Brian Butterworth http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002
RE: [backstage] BBC DRM iplayer mobiles etc
Deirdre Harvey :: Web Producer :: BBC Newsline :: Newsroom :: BBC Broadcasting House :: Ormeau Avenue :: Belfast BT2 8HQ :: ph. 02890 338264 http://bbc.co.uk/newsline -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Iain Wallace Sent: 16 October 2008 10:50 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] BBC DRM iplayer mobiles etc On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 8:36 AM, Deirdre Harvey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Am I the only person in the world who finds Stephen Fry an unutterable bore? That's entirely likely. :D Maybe I'm just prejudiced against National Treasures. He joined Twitter last week BTW and has been posting some great tweets from Africa so far, including a few pics of Rhinos etc. http://twitter.com/stephenfry Cheers, Iain - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] BBC DRM iplayer mobiles etc
On Thursday 16 October 2008 14:21:18 Andrew Bowden wrote: Nope. It's fully public - the Channel 4 Television Corporation officially. Ahh, maybe I'm thinking of a discussion in 2004 where it mooted having a share release then, leaving it at 51%. Obviously that never happened. Michael. -- http://www.kamaelia.org/Home - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] BBC DRM iplayer mobiles etc
Dave Crossland wrote: 2008/10/15 Phil Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Yes, the fact that this will run on all the Linux PCs in both my houseand office is a shockingly pro-Microsoft move and must be stopped! The fact that this will run only with proprietary software is continuing the BBC's discriminatory policy against software freedom, and it must be stopped. I wonder how one can best persuade the relevant people at the BBC to lay out, adopt and embrace a forward thinking strategy to allow end users to access any and all of their services using only free software... Ideas welcome Tim -- www.tdobson.net If each of us have one object, and we exchange them, then each of us still has one object. If each of us have one idea, and we exchange them, then each of us now has two ideas. - George Bernard Shaw - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] BBC DRM iplayer mobiles etc
I wonder how one can best persuade the relevant people at the BBC to lay out, adopt and embrace a forward thinking strategy to allow end users to access any and all of their services using only free software... I suspect that, for the most part, it isn't the BBC that you need to convince. Phil - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] BBC DRM iplayer mobiles etc
Indeed I had been under the impression there was progress when Ashley Highfield told me last November that long-term, DRM should be open source or better yet, work should be done with rights holders to do away with DRM. In my conversations with people from PACT I got the distinct impression that they are not at all militant about DRM. What they are deeply concerned with are the livelihoods of content creators and maintaining a resemblance to the status quo where more popular content is remunerated in proportion. The BBC is perhaps uniquely qualified to sit down with PACT and the others and hammer out deals which are fair to both the licence fee payer and the creator. DRM is inherently unfair to the licence fee payer, in many cases infringing on users' rights; it is difficult and expensive to implement on common platforms, and even more so on all the others; and is easily defeated by the technically inclined while monstrously frustrating to everybody else. Years ago, the BBC convinced RealNetworks to issue a special version of their player. Adobe has just implemented Speex in Flash 10, it seems to me the BBC could also play a part in getting a free video codec into Flash which to my mind would certainly be a positive step. Isn't there anyone at the BBC willing to take that leadership role? Sean. On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 7:13 PM, Tim Dobson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dave Crossland wrote: 2008/10/15 Phil Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Yes, the fact that this will run on all the Linux PCs in both my houseand office is a shockingly pro-Microsoft move and must be stopped! The fact that this will run only with proprietary software is continuing the BBC's discriminatory policy against software freedom, and it must be stopped. I wonder how one can best persuade the relevant people at the BBC to lay out, adopt and embrace a forward thinking strategy to allow end users to access any and all of their services using only free software... Ideas welcome Tim -- www.tdobson.net If each of us have one object, and we exchange them, then each of us still has one object. If each of us have one idea, and we exchange them, then each of us now has two ideas. - George Bernard Shaw - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
