Re: [backstage] iPad and iPlayer
Mo, Dave got the beebPlayer app working OK on Android. Until the BBC reversed the stated position and got it banned. Shouldn't be too hard... On 26 May 2010 23:35, Mo McRoberts m...@nevali.net wrote: On 26-May-2010, at 23:11, Brian Butterworth wrote: Let's hope the same priority has been afforded to Android users. It was pointed out to me earlier today that Android has been “going to support Flash really soon” for quite a while now. While it should be a very simple change to serve up the iPhone version to Android phones alongside iPhones and iPod touches (it’s all WebKit, baseline H.264+AAC-LC, after all — though might be in a QuickTime container, can’t recall), I can’t help but wonder if it would complicate the BBC’s “strategic relationship” with Adobe if they were to do it. Not that I’m endorsing such a thing were it to be true, mind. Bloody stupid situation… M. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Brian Butterworth follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002
Re: [backstage] iPad and iPlayer
It isn't the doublespeak that bothers me, I can cope with that, I am used it it. It is the reversal in position without any public notification that I find distasteful. Web pages get deleted and the policy changes, but no public notification is made. On 27 May 2010 08:54, Mo McRoberts m...@nevali.net wrote: On 27-May-2010, at 08:46, Brian Butterworth wrote: Mo, Dave got the beebPlayer app working OK on Android. Until the BBC reversed the stated position and got it banned. Shouldn't be too hard... Yeah, in BBC Doublespeak, as we all know, “not supported” actually means “prohibited, and we’ll take legal action if we have to”. For example: “stealing office stationery is not supported” “the BBC currently offers no support for talent wishing to swear like a navvy on-air” “punching presenters in the face is not a supported use-case for production staff” …this is the same world in which “content management” means “DRM”, and “TLD” stands for “top-level directory”, after all. I blame John Birt. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Brian Butterworth follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002
Re: [backstage] iPad and iPlayer
Was BeebPlayer actually banned by the BBC then? I was trying to get the story on why it suddenly vanished. What could the issue possibly be with it? On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 8:46 AM, Brian Butterworth briant...@freeview.tv wrote: Mo, Dave got the beebPlayer app working OK on Android. Until the BBC reversed the stated position and got it banned. Shouldn't be too hard... On 26 May 2010 23:35, Mo McRoberts m...@nevali.net wrote: On 26-May-2010, at 23:11, Brian Butterworth wrote: Let's hope the same priority has been afforded to Android users. It was pointed out to me earlier today that Android has been “going to support Flash really soon” for quite a while now. While it should be a very simple change to serve up the iPhone version to Android phones alongside iPhones and iPod touches (it’s all WebKit, baseline H.264+AAC-LC, after all — though might be in a QuickTime container, can’t recall), I can’t help but wonder if it would complicate the BBC’s “strategic relationship” with Adobe if they were to do it. Not that I’m endorsing such a thing were it to be true, mind. Bloody stupid situation… M. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Brian Butterworth follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPad and iPlayer
Dave posted Awesome - looks like the Beeb have changed iPlayer enough to break beebPlayer once again.8:43 AM May 13thhttp://twitter.com/johnsto/status/13901166595 via Twitter for Android http://mobile.twitter.com/ from here http://maps.google.com/maps?q=51.4029042,0.0167886 and a very short note at http://davejohnston.posterous.com/?tag=beebplayer http://davejohnston.posterous.com/?tag=beebplayerMakes you wonder why the BBC bothered with backstage at all, doesn't it? On 27 May 2010 12:44, Iain Wallace ikwall...@gmail.com wrote: Was BeebPlayer actually banned by the BBC then? I was trying to get the story on why it suddenly vanished. What could the issue possibly be with it? On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 8:46 AM, Brian Butterworth briant...@freeview.tv wrote: Mo, Dave got the beebPlayer app working OK on Android. Until the BBC reversed the stated position and got it banned. Shouldn't be too hard... On 26 May 2010 23:35, Mo McRoberts m...@nevali.net wrote: On 26-May-2010, at 23:11, Brian Butterworth wrote: Let's hope the same priority has been afforded to Android users. It was pointed out to me earlier today that Android has been “going to support Flash really soon” for quite a while now. While it should be a very simple change to serve up the iPhone version to Android phones alongside iPhones and iPod touches (it’s all WebKit, baseline H.264+AAC-LC, after all — though might be in a QuickTime container, can’t recall), I can’t help but wonder if it would complicate the BBC’s “strategic relationship” with Adobe if they were to do it. Not that I’m endorsing such a thing were it to be true, mind. Bloody stupid situation… M. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Brian Butterworth follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Brian Butterworth follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002
Re: [backstage] iPad and iPlayer
BBC have now enabled auto detection of iPad ... now presents the bigscreen version - but not on the beta iPlayer site. Paul On Thu, 27 May 2010 13:06:18 +0100, you wrote: Dave posted Awesome - looks like the Beeb have changed iPlayer enough to break beebPlayer once again.8:43 AM May 13thhttp://twitter.com/johnsto/status/13901166595 via Twitter for Android http://mobile.twitter.com/ from here http://maps.google.com/maps?q=51.4029042,0.0167886 and a very short note at http://davejohnston.posterous.com/?tag=beebplayer http://davejohnston.posterous.com/?tag=beebplayerMakes you wonder why the BBC bothered with backstage at all, doesn't it? On 27 May 2010 12:44, Iain Wallace ikwall...@gmail.com wrote: Was BeebPlayer actually banned by the BBC then? I was trying to get the story on why it suddenly vanished. What could the issue possibly be with it? On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 8:46 AM, Brian Butterworth briant...@freeview.tv wrote: Mo, Dave got the beebPlayer app working OK on Android. Until the BBC reversed the stated position and got it banned. Shouldn't be too hard... On 26 May 2010 23:35, Mo McRoberts m...@nevali.net wrote: On 26-May-2010, at 23:11, Brian Butterworth wrote: Let's hope the same priority has been afforded to Android users. It was pointed out to me earlier today that Android has been going to support Flash really soon for quite a while now. While it should be a very simple change to serve up the iPhone version to Android phones alongside iPhones and iPod touches (its all WebKit, baseline H.264+AAC-LC, after all though might be in a QuickTime container, cant recall), I cant help but wonder if it would complicate the BBCs strategic relationship with Adobe if they were to do it. Not that Im endorsing such a thing were it to be true, mind. Bloody stupid situation M. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Brian Butterworth follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Re: [backstage] Re: get_iplay er 2.77 release (was Re: [backstage] get_ip layer dropped in response to BBC’s lack of su pport for open source)
I thought this was an interesting summary http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/columns/bbc_drm_and_demise_get_iplayer_what_hell_going I read some quite thought provoking stories of what the Publishers are up to . so once PACT and other old fashioned societies get involved, then the unintended consequences could be quite tragic. Rich On 27 May 2010, at 09:47, Brian Butterworth wrote: I think the people from PACT got it all banned. After all, they have their own interests to look after, you can't blame them. It's not as if the money is from the public or anything. On 26 May 2010 23:28, Alex Cockell a...@acockell.eclipse.co.uk wrote: Hi folks, Considering it's now being handled here - do we have anyone with any clout as to getting get_iplayer supported officially? Just thinking that there is precedent for a download/streaming engine separate to playback client - just look toward the EBU... :) Watching with interest... Alex -- Alex Cockell Reading, Berks, UK a...@acockell.eclipse.co.uk - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html . Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Brian Butterworth follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002
[backstage] Re: [backstage] Re: [backstage] Re: get_iplay er 2.77 release (was Re: [backstage] get_ipla yer dropped in response to BBC’s lack of su pport for open source)
What actually needs to happen is that Open Source needs to call the BBCs bluff by actually implementing the SWF verification stuff and producing an application with a compelling user experience that matches or is better than anything else on offer. --- On Thu, 27/5/10, Richard P Edwards re...@mac.com wrote: From: Richard P Edwards re...@mac.com Subject: Re: [backstage] Re: [backstage] Re: get_iplayer 2.77 release (was Re: [backstage] get_iplayer dropped in response to BBC’s lack of support for open source) To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Date: Thursday, 27 May, 2010, 16:07 I thought this was an interesting summary http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/columns/bbc_drm_and_demise_get_iplayer_what_hell_going I read some quite thought provoking stories of what the Publishers are up to . so once PACT and other old fashioned societies get involved, then the unintended consequences could be quite tragic. Rich On 27 May 2010, at 09:47, Brian Butterworth wrote: I think the people from PACT got it all banned. After all, they have their own interests to look after, you can't blame them. It's not as if the money is from the public or anything. On 26 May 2010 23:28, Alex Cockell a...@acockell.eclipse.co.uk wrote: Hi folks, Considering it's now being handled here - do we have anyone with any clout as to getting get_iplayer supported officially? Just thinking that there is precedent for a download/streaming engine separate to playback client - just look toward the EBU... :) Watching with interest... Alex -- Alex Cockell Reading, Berks, UK a...@acockell.eclipse.co.uk - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Brian Butterworth follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002
[backstage] Re: [backstage] Re: [backstage] Re: [backstage] Re: get_iplayer 2.77 release (was Re: [backstage] get_iplayer dr opped in response to BBC’s lack of support for open source )
You realise that Open Source isn't an organisation that designs software, right? You also realise we've had SWF verification software for quite a long time and we're happily using it to download video behind SWF verified flash apps? I really don't think user experience is the issue. My user experience with iPlayer is that I get home and all my favourite TV shows have magically been downloaded and are visible in Boxee, watchable in HD at a time when my ISP is normally dealing with a mass of traffic. get_iplayer has a pretty big user base without a shiny UI because most people want software to do what they want first and then have it looking cool doing it later. get_iplayer was better than BBC's effort because it enabled HD playback on Linux, which was not something they'd managed before. BeebPlayer was better than the BBC's efforts because it enabled playback on Android, which was something they hadn't managed before. On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 5:01 PM, Kieran Kunhya kie...@kunhya.com wrote: What actually needs to happen is that Open Source needs to call the BBCs bluff by actually implementing the SWF verification stuff and producing an application with a compelling user experience that matches or is better than anything else on offer. --- On *Thu, 27/5/10, Richard P Edwards re...@mac.com* wrote: From: Richard P Edwards re...@mac.com Subject: Re: [backstage] Re: [backstage] Re: get_iplayer 2.77 release (was Re: [backstage] get_iplayer dropped in response to BBC’s lack of support for open source) To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Date: Thursday, 27 May, 2010, 16:07 I thought this was an interesting summary http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/columns/bbc_drm_and_demise_get_iplayer_what_hell_going I read some quite thought provoking stories of what the Publishers are up to . so once PACT and other old fashioned societies get involved, then the unintended consequences could be quite tragic. Rich On 27 May 2010, at 09:47, Brian Butterworth wrote: I think the people from PACT got it all banned. After all, they have their own interests to look after, you can't blame them. It's not as if the money is from the public or anything. On 26 May 2010 23:28, Alex Cockell a...@acockell.eclipse.co.ukhttp://mc/compose?to=a...@acockell.eclipse.co.uk wrote: Hi folks, Considering it's now being handled here - do we have anyone with any clout as to getting get_iplayer supported officially? Just thinking that there is precedent for a download/streaming engine separate to playback client - just look toward the EBU... :) Watching with interest... Alex -- Alex Cockell Reading, Berks, UK a...@acockell.eclipse.co.ukhttp://mc/compose?to=a...@acockell.eclipse.co.uk - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Brian Butterworth follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002
[backstage] Re: [backstage] Re: [backstage] Re: [backstage] Re: [backstage] Re: [backstage] Re: get_iplayer 2.77 release (wa s Re: [backstage] get_iplayer dropped in response to BBC’s lack of suppor
On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 18:10, Kieran Kunhya kie...@kunhya.com wrote: The point is the view is that Open Source software isn't considered bothering about by the BBC because too few people use it and there's the fear of piracy. (in spite of the fact that downloads from VoD aren't used by pirates because of the poor quality compared to broadcasts) What I always find funny is that by not supporting the Open Source Community the content providers often end up shooting themselves in the foot with their DRM plans. If this means disallowing recordings or respecting time restrictions then so be it. What would be the point? It's open source so almost everyone would use patched versions. It will also lower the proportion of people downloading the files from p2p networks just like iPlayer itself did when it was launched. I doubt it. A crippled (yet still open) solution wouldn't provide as good a product as what's on the torrents or uncrippled get_iplayer or even what you can get from a networked PVR. So most people would carrying on getting their content the way they're currently get their content. * * Most people aren't going to mess about with a command line app to do this. Which is their loss really. I think if people bothered to learn the CLI and basic scripting they'd find that would have a much easier and more satisfying computing experience all round.
Re: [backstage] Re: [backstage] Re: [backstage] Re: [backstage] Re: [backstage] Re: get_iplayer 2.77 release (was Re: [backstage] get_iplayer dropped in response to BBC’s lack of support for open sour
On Thu, 2010-05-27 at 10:10 -0700, Kieran Kunhya wrote: You realise that Open Source isn't an organisation that designs software, right? You also realise we've had SWF verification software for quite a long time and we're happily using it to download video behind SWF verified flash apps? The Open Source Community should come up with a solution then...The fact that we already have SWF verification is besides the point; it's just another technical DRM measure. Kieran, your mail seems to be a horrid mix of Iain's words and your own, without anything to distinguish between them. Whatever email software you're using, it's catastrophically broken. I _think_ this bit was you, not just a broken citation (mostly since I don't think Iain would say this): Most people aren't going to mess about with a command line app to do this. User experience is very important. Personally, all my use of iPlayer content is to fetch something I'm already aware of; I'm not just browsing randomly. And for that, I find that a command line tool gives a _much_ better experience than any point-and-drool GUI could ever provide. But there _are_ GUI tools which make use of get_iplayer, such as the get_iplayer.cgi script which runs a local web server and points your browser at it. They haven't received a lot of love because most people with sufficient clue to work on them don't really _care_ about such things. -- dwmw2 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Re: [backstage] Re: [backstage] Re: [b ackstage] Re: [backstage] Re: get_iplayer 2.77 relea se (was Re: [backstage] get_iplayer dropped in res ponse to BBC’s lack of support for open s
On 27 May 2010, at 20:42, David Woodhouse dw...@infradead.org wrote: Personally, all my use of iPlayer content is to fetch something I'm already aware of; I'm not just browsing randomly. And for that, I find that a command line tool gives a _much_ better experience than any point-and-drool GUI could ever provide. You're missing two very important words there: for you. But there _are_ GUI tools which make use of get_iplayer, such as the get_iplayer.cgi script which runs a local web server and points your browser at it. They haven't received a lot of love because most people with sufficient clue to work on them don't really _care_ about such things. I think Kieran's point is that they should. That's what will drive widespread adoption. Cheers Jonathan - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Re: [backstage] Re: [backstage] Re: [backstage] Re: [backstage] Re: get_iplayer 2.77 release (was Re: [backstage] get_iplayer dropped in response to BBC’s lack of support for open sour
On Thu, 2010-05-27 at 22:56 +0100, Jonathan Tweed wrote: On 27 May 2010, at 20:42, David Woodhouse dw...@infradead.org wrote: Personally, all my use of iPlayer content is to fetch something I'm already aware of; I'm not just browsing randomly. And for that, I find that a command line tool gives a _much_ better experience than any point-and-drool GUI could ever provide. You're missing two very important words there: for you. Surely those two words would be redundant, given that I already went back to that sentence to insert the words 'I find that' before sending it? That was certainly my intention. But there _are_ GUI tools which make use of get_iplayer, such as the get_iplayer.cgi script which runs a local web server and points your browser at it. They haven't received a lot of love because most people with sufficient clue to work on them don't really _care_ about such things. I think Kieran's point is that they should. That's what will drive widespread adoption. That presumes that they _want_ widespread adoption, of course. I can't speak for them but personally, I don't really care very much about how widely get_iplayer (or any other Free Software I work on) is adopted. It's fun when people out there are using your code, but that kind of lost its novelty after the first few million units shipped. I started working on get_iplayer because I find it useful and I know that other people find it useful too. Without it, the iPlayer is fairly useless to me. My broadband at home is far too slow to watch things in real time with any reasonable quality, BT want £128,000 to install a second line, so my only real option is to download things and then watch them. I'm completely uninterested in the GUI side. I'd be the wrong person to do any GUI support because I'd never want to _use_ anything like that. If you or Kieran are actually _interested_ in the GUIs... have you _looked_ at get_iplayer.cgi or at the iPlayer support in XBMC? -- dwmw2 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
