RE: [backstage] indefinitely live BBC archive?
The BBC does make some programmes available all the time They are a small number of speech radio programmes to which the BBC has all the rights. Sadly with other programmes (radio programmes with music, TV programmes) the rights situation is very complicated. -Original Message- From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Tim Dobson Sent: 28 February 2010 22:49 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] indefinitely live BBC archive? Jonathan Chetwynd wrote: indefinitely live BBC archive? my daughter (age 13) asks: why can't the BBC make some programmes available all the time? regards Jonathan ie there must be a large number of programmes that the BBC creates, and owns copyright permissions. why aren't at least some of these available via search indefinitely, aka youtube/bbc This thread reminds me of this: http://www.blog.tdobson.net/node/173 I'm glad there are people out there, like your daughter, who ask these questions. Tim - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] indefinitely live BBC archive?
though I wonder how complicated the rights situation is, in reality. I'm sure it's not simple, but I do worry that people get scared off by the word 'rights', and then don't try and investigate/question how we can offer the best to the audience whilst still acknowledging the contributions of those who made the programmes. Rights are important, and should be respected - but shouldn't be used as a weapon to scare off questions/solutions... On 01/03/2010 09:02, Nick Reynolds-FMT nick.reyno...@bbc.co.uk wrote: The BBC does make some programmes available all the time They are a small number of speech radio programmes to which the BBC has all the rights. Sadly with other programmes (radio programmes with music, TV programmes) the rights situation is very complicated. -Original Message- From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Tim Dobson Sent: 28 February 2010 22:49 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] indefinitely live BBC archive? Jonathan Chetwynd wrote: indefinitely live BBC archive? my daughter (age 13) asks: why can't the BBC make some programmes available all the time? regards Jonathan ie there must be a large number of programmes that the BBC creates, and owns copyright permissions. why aren't at least some of these available via search indefinitely, aka youtube/bbc This thread reminds me of this: http://www.blog.tdobson.net/node/173 I'm glad there are people out there, like your daughter, who ask these questions. Tim - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] indefinitely live BBC archive?
On 01/03/10 10:09, Paul Rissen wrote: Rights are important, and should be respected - but shouldn't be used as a weapon to scare off questions/solutions... And we've known that we need to tackle rights on new work (the rats nest of pre-digital rights would probably require legislation to untangle) for some years now. But it's difficult to persuade the people we need to persuade of this. Their lawyers tend to try and talk them out of it at the last moment in my experience and succeed far too often. - Rob. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] indefinitely live BBC archive?
Your right about the lawyers. As default they suggest you would be a mug to give away any part of the rights. I know I'm slightly bias but can I suggest http://free-culture.cc/ the book to anyone interested in how complex rights can get. When started RDTV, we took the stance of not using anything BBC pretty much, just in case there might be a contract or licence which held us from releasing the footage. Its like tip toeing in a live minefield. I do wish we were more enlightened about remix/free culture but the fact remains to most of the rights holders that all this is hippy nonsense unless its proven that they can make more revenue from giving away part of the rights. Secret[] Private[] Public[x] Ian Forrester Senior Backstage Producer BBC RD North Lab, 1st Floor Office, OB Base, New Broadcasting House, Oxford Road, Manchester, M60 1SJ -Original Message- From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Rob Myers Sent: 01 March 2010 10:31 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] indefinitely live BBC archive? On 01/03/10 10:09, Paul Rissen wrote: Rights are important, and should be respected - but shouldn't be used as a weapon to scare off questions/solutions... And we've known that we need to tackle rights on new work (the rats nest of pre-digital rights would probably require legislation to untangle) for some years now. But it's difficult to persuade the people we need to persuade of this. Their lawyers tend to try and talk them out of it at the last moment in my experience and succeed far too often. - Rob. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] indefinitely live BBC archive?
On 01/03/10 11:22, Ian Forrester wrote: Your right about the lawyers. As default they suggest you would be a mug to give away any part of the rights. In my experience there are very, very few lawyers who can help work through more creative models. I've even been surprised by some of the lawyers working for organizatons/projects who should know better. Protecting against the risk of loss is deeply ingrained, opening up to opportunities for gain is an alien way of thinking. I know I'm slightly bias but can I suggest http://free-culture.cc/ the book to anyone interested in how complex rights can get. I'd also recommend Promises To Keep, which Lessig refers to in that book. It's a very detailed illustration of the precise flow of rights and values in the (US) music industry. This is what any new system would replace. When started RDTV, we took the stance of not using anything BBC pretty much, just in case there might be a contract or licence which held us from releasing the footage. Its like tip toeing in a live minefield. My mother wanted a DVD of The Rock and Roll Years for her birthday recently and I had to explain why it was incredibly unlikely that one would be available... I do wish we were more enlightened about remix/free culture but the fact remains to most of the rights holders that all this is hippy nonsense unless its proven that they can make more revenue from giving away part of the rights. I've worked on several projects devoted to doing just that. It's a struggle but we're learning more and more about both how to structure the project and how to keep all the stakeholders on board when their lawyers panic the day before the launch. ;-) - Rob. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] indefinitely live BBC archive?
On 28/02/2010 17:38, Jonathan Chetwynd wrote: : why can't the BBC make some programmes available all the time? Rights, dear boy. Gordo - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] indefinitely live BBC archive?
--- On Sun, 28/2/10, Jonathan Chetwynd j.chetw...@btinternet.com wrote: From: Jonathan Chetwynd j.chetw...@btinternet.com Subject: [backstage] indefinitely live BBC archive? To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Date: Sunday, 28 February, 2010, 17:38 indefinitely live BBC archive? my daughter (age 13) asks: why can't the BBC make some programmes available all the time? regards Jonathan ie there must be a large number of programmes that the BBC creates, and owns copyright permissions. why aren't at least some of these available via search indefinitely, aka youtube/bbc If you want any easy start the BBC could make BBC Parliament content available permanently. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] indefinitely live BBC archive?
On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 17:54, Glyn Wintle glynwin...@yahoo.com wrote: If you want any easy start the BBC could make BBC Parliament content available permanently. I’m actually not sure why anybody _owns_ that content in the first place. It should be that PARBUL is merely contracted to produce and broadcast it, with the production funded by the taxpayer. As it stands, the major broadcasters have a collective monopoly over the availability of parliamentary proceedings (as nobody else would now be able to install *their* own cameras). M. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] indefinitely live BBC archive?
On 28 Feb 2010, at 17:53, Gordon Joly wrote: why can't the BBC make some programmes available all the time? Rights, dear boy. and Residuals in particular - Equity MU contracts ensure that every time a drama is rescreened the performers get another set of smaller fees. UKGold when it was free based its whole business model on a loophole in the contracts that didn't envisage satellite TV, so had no requirement to pay residuals to performers so it was very cheap TV to broadcast. Whilst some of the performers benefited from fresh exposure, they would also have liked to be paid for it rather than relying on it bringing in new work because they were back in the public eye. f - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] indefinitely live BBC archive?
why can't the BBC make some programmes available all the time? Rights, dear boy. And kids, in their limitless quest to just get what they want now, care not one bit for that most wonderfully complex of one-word answers. Then again, most regular people don't care either. ;) - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] indefinitely live BBC archive?
Whilst, as already mentioned, rights agreements stop us from doing this for most programmes, there are cases where we can do it. It's even part of the service licence for Radio 4. From http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctrust/assets/files/pdf/regulatory_framework/service_licences/radio/2008/radio4_Apr08.pdf: offer broadcast radio content for download for an unlimited period of time after broadcast, although this must not include unabridged readings of published works nor full track commercial music nor classical music Which allows us to do lovely things such as this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/features/in-our-time/archive/ Cheers Jonathan On 28 Feb 2010, at 17:38, Jonathan Chetwynd wrote: indefinitely live BBC archive? my daughter (age 13) asks: why can't the BBC make some programmes available all the time? regards Jonathan ie there must be a large number of programmes that the BBC creates, and owns copyright permissions. why aren't at least some of these available via search indefinitely, aka youtube/bbc - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] indefinitely live BBC archive?
Jonathan, that's excellent, but there must be more... and where is the central search facility? best ~: On 28 Feb 2010, at 20:37, Jonathan Tweed wrote: http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/features/in-our-time/archive/
Re: [backstage] indefinitely live BBC archive?
Jonathan Chetwynd wrote: indefinitely live BBC archive? my daughter (age 13) asks: why can't the BBC make some programmes available all the time? regards Jonathan ie there must be a large number of programmes that the BBC creates, and owns copyright permissions. why aren't at least some of these available via search indefinitely, aka youtube/bbc This thread reminds me of this: http://www.blog.tdobson.net/node/173 I'm glad there are people out there, like your daughter, who ask these questions. Tim - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] indefinitely live BBC archive?
On 28 Feb 2010, at 22:24, Ian Stirling wrote: But the index is freely available. Just past the tiger, down the flight of stairs (bring your own torch) all nicely card-indexed. Heh. I wish that wasn't as accurate as it is. Much of the BBC's Archive (the documents and photos, but thankfully not the programmes) I meticulously and completely indexed on cards. What's most interesting is that as you get more recent they get harder to read, as they started out typed but are now handwritten. People don't have typewriters on their desks anymore... Cheers Jonathan - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] indefinitely live BBC archive?
Hi Jonathan As more of our archive content gets migrated into /programmes, it will start to appear in various places and central indexes throughout the site, including search results. However, that's a mammoth task and one we've only just begun. Other archive content you may have already spotted includes many of the clips on Wildlife Finder and Solar System. There are also also some archive comedy clips beginning to appear on the Comedy site. Sorry I can't give a better answer than that, but we're very much at the start of this one, taking our first baby steps. Cheers Jonathan On 28 Feb 2010, at 21:36, Jonathan Chetwynd wrote: Jonathan, that's excellent, but there must be more... and where is the central search facility? best ~: On 28 Feb 2010, at 20:37, Jonathan Tweed wrote: http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/features/in-our-time/archive/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
