Re: [BackupPC-users] Filesystem Recommendation for 100 TB

2020-04-30 Thread G.W. Haywood via BackupPC-users

Hi there,

On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 1:02 PM Andrew Maksymowsky wrote:


I have no strong preference for either xfs or zfs (our team is
comfortable with either) was mainly just curious to hear about what
folks were using and if they've run into any major issues or found
particular file-system features they really like when coupled with
backuppc.


Data volumes of the systems I back up approach those with which you're
working, and I have had no issues with ext4.  Being very conservative
about filesystem choice now (after a disastrous outing with ReiserFS,
a little over a decade ago) I haven't yet taken the plunge with any of
the more modern filesystems.  It's probably past time for me to put a
toe in the water once more, but there are always more pressing issues
and I *really* don't need another episode like that with Reiser.

At one time I routinely used to modify the BackupPC GUI to display the
ext4 inode usage on BackupPC systems, but happily I no longer need to
do that. :)  Although I'd have said my systems tend to have lots of
small files, typically they're only using a few percent of inode
capacity at a few tens % of storage capacity; I have no clue what the
fragmentation is like, and likely won't unless something bites me.

There's no RAID here at all, but there are LVMs, so snapshots became
possible whatever the filesystem.  Although at one time I thought I'd
be using snapshots a lot, and sometimes did, now I seem not to bother
with them.  Large databases tend to be few in number and can probably
be backed up better using the tools provided by the database system
itself; directories containing database files and VMs are specifically
excluded in my BackupPC configurations; some routine data collection
like security camera video is treated specially in the config too, and
what's left is largely configuration and users' home directories.  All
machines run Linux or similar, thankfully no Windows boxes any more.

Just to state one possibly obvious point, the ability to prevent the
filesystem used by BackupPC from writing access times would probably
be important to most, although I'm aware that you're interested more
in the reliability of the system and this is a performance issue.  On
1GBit/s networks I see backup data rates ranging from 20MByte/s for a
full backup to 3GByte/s for an incremental.  Obviously the network is
not the bottleneck and from that point of view I think the filesystem
probably doesn't matter; you're looking at CPU, I/O (think SSDs?) and
very likely RAM too, e.g. for rsync transfers which can be surprising.

HTH

--

73,
Ged.


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Re: [BackupPC-users] Filesystem Recommendation for 100 TB

2020-04-29 Thread Andrew Maksymowsky
Thanks Robert and to everyone for your feedback. Really appreciate it !

On Apr 28, 2020, at 1:45 PM, Robert Trevellyan 
mailto:robert.trevell...@gmail.com>> wrote:

I've been using ZFS for storage on Ubuntu Server for several years now. Among 
other things, the server runs two BackupPC 4 instances in LXC containers. One 
backs up local machines, the other backs up cloud servers. I haven't run into 
any serious problems. My use case is on a much smaller scale than yours in 
terms of storage and number of hosts, but the backups in both BPC instances 
include large numbers of small files. IMO the fact that ZFS has no limit on 
inodes is one of the attributes that makes is a good choice, aside from the 
obvious (reliability and scale).

Robert Trevellyan


On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 1:02 PM Andrew Maksymowsky 
mailto:andrew.maksymow...@sickkids.ca>> wrote:
I have no strong preference for either xfs or zfs (our team is comfortable with 
either) was mainly just curious to hear about what folks were using and if 
they've run into any major issues or found particular file-system features they 
really like when coupled with backuppc.

Most of the files we'll be backing up are fairly small (under a few mb). We've 
got a handful of large databases the we'll also be backing up dumps of.

Thanks !

Andrew

From: Robert Trevellyan 
mailto:robert.trevell...@gmail.com>>
Sent: April 28, 2020 12:31 PM
To: General list for user discussion, questions and support 
mailto:backuppc-users@lists.sourceforge.net>>
Subject: Re: [BackupPC-users] Filesystem Recommendation for 100 TB

Any reason not to use ZFS?

Robert Trevellyan


On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 11:59 AM Andrew Maksymowsky 
mailto:andrew.maksymow...@sickkids.ca>> wrote:
Hello,

I believe the last time this was asked was a few years ago and I was wondering 
if anything has changed.
We’ve been running backuppc for a few years and now have new server for it with 
100 TB of space in hardware raid 6 array.

We’re wondering what the recommended filesystem for backuppc would be on an 
array of this size ?

Our priority is stability over performance. We’ll be running ubuntu as the 
operating system.

Most of the hosts we’re backing up are fairly small (under 1 TB) linux servers. 
Right now we’re backing up about 100 servers for a total of around 20 TB. 
(We’re expecting the new server to last a few years).

Thanks !

- Andrew



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Re: [BackupPC-users] Filesystem Recommendation for 100 TB

2020-04-28 Thread Robert Trevellyan
I've been using ZFS for storage on Ubuntu Server for several years now.
Among other things, the server runs two BackupPC 4 instances in LXC
containers. One backs up local machines, the other backs up cloud servers.
I haven't run into any serious problems. My use case is on a much smaller
scale than yours in terms of storage and number of hosts, but the backups
in both BPC instances include large numbers of small files. IMO the fact
that ZFS has no limit on inodes is one of the attributes that makes is a
good choice, aside from the obvious (reliability and scale).

Robert Trevellyan


On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 1:02 PM Andrew Maksymowsky <
andrew.maksymow...@sickkids.ca> wrote:

> I have no strong preference for either xfs or zfs (our team is comfortable
> with either) was mainly just curious to hear about what folks were using
> and if they've run into any major issues or found particular file-system
> features they really like when coupled with backuppc.
>
> Most of the files we'll be backing up are fairly small (under a few mb).
> We've got a handful of large databases the we'll also be backing up dumps
> of.
>
> Thanks !
>
> Andrew
> --
> *From:* Robert Trevellyan 
> *Sent:* April 28, 2020 12:31 PM
> *To:* General list for user discussion, questions and support <
> backuppc-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [BackupPC-users] Filesystem Recommendation for 100 TB
>
> Any reason not to use ZFS?
>
> Robert Trevellyan
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 11:59 AM Andrew Maksymowsky <
> andrew.maksymow...@sickkids.ca> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I believe the last time this was asked was a few years ago and I was
> wondering if anything has changed.
> We’ve been running backuppc for a few years and now have new server for it
> with 100 TB of space in hardware raid 6 array.
>
> We’re wondering what the recommended filesystem for backuppc would be on
> an array of this size ?
>
> Our priority is stability over performance. We’ll be running ubuntu as the
> operating system.
>
> Most of the hosts we’re backing up are fairly small (under 1 TB) linux
> servers. Right now we’re backing up about 100 servers for a total of around
> 20 TB. (We’re expecting the new server to last a few years).
>
> Thanks !
>
> - Andrew
>
> 
>
> This e-mail may contain confidential, personal and/or health
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Re: [BackupPC-users] Filesystem Recommendation for 100 TB

2020-04-28 Thread Michael Huntley
I think zfs is perfectly acceptable as well.

Cheers,

Mph

> On Apr 28, 2020, at 9:31 AM, Robert Trevellyan  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> Any reason not to use ZFS?
> 
> Robert Trevellyan
> 
> 
>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 11:59 AM Andrew Maksymowsky 
>>  wrote:
>> Hello,
>> 
>> I believe the last time this was asked was a few years ago and I was 
>> wondering if anything has changed.
>> We’ve been running backuppc for a few years and now have new server for it 
>> with 100 TB of space in hardware raid 6 array.
>> 
>> We’re wondering what the recommended filesystem for backuppc would be on an 
>> array of this size ?
>> 
>> Our priority is stability over performance. We’ll be running ubuntu as the 
>> operating system.
>> 
>> Most of the hosts we’re backing up are fairly small (under 1 TB) linux 
>> servers. Right now we’re backing up about 100 servers for a total of around 
>> 20 TB. (We’re expecting the new server to last a few years).
>> 
>> Thanks !
>> 
>> - Andrew
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> This e-mail may contain confidential, personal and/or health 
>> information(information which may be subject to legal restrictions on use, 
>> retention and/or disclosure) for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any 
>> review or distribution by anyone other than the person for whom it was 
>> originally intended is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail 
>> in error, please contact the sender and delete all copies.
>> 
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Re: [BackupPC-users] Filesystem Recommendation for 100 TB

2020-04-28 Thread Andrew Maksymowsky
I have no strong preference for either xfs or zfs (our team is comfortable with 
either) was mainly just curious to hear about what folks were using and if 
they've run into any major issues or found particular file-system features they 
really like when coupled with backuppc.

Most of the files we'll be backing up are fairly small (under a few mb). We've 
got a handful of large databases the we'll also be backing up dumps of.

Thanks !

Andrew

From: Robert Trevellyan 
Sent: April 28, 2020 12:31 PM
To: General list for user discussion, questions and support 

Subject: Re: [BackupPC-users] Filesystem Recommendation for 100 TB

Any reason not to use ZFS?

Robert Trevellyan


On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 11:59 AM Andrew Maksymowsky 
mailto:andrew.maksymow...@sickkids.ca>> wrote:
Hello,

I believe the last time this was asked was a few years ago and I was wondering 
if anything has changed.
We’ve been running backuppc for a few years and now have new server for it with 
100 TB of space in hardware raid 6 array.

We’re wondering what the recommended filesystem for backuppc would be on an 
array of this size ?

Our priority is stability over performance. We’ll be running ubuntu as the 
operating system.

Most of the hosts we’re backing up are fairly small (under 1 TB) linux servers. 
Right now we’re backing up about 100 servers for a total of around 20 TB. 
(We’re expecting the new server to last a few years).

Thanks !

- Andrew



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Re: [BackupPC-users] Filesystem Recommendation for 100 TB

2020-04-28 Thread Brad Alexander
I use ZFS for all of my FreeBSD boxes, and it is stable and robust. I am in
the process of preparing to convert my current backuppc 3.3.1 installation
to a backuppc 4 in a jail on my FreeNAS with the backuppc pool living on a
FreeNAS ZFS pool.

On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 12:32 PM Robert Trevellyan <
robert.trevell...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Any reason not to use ZFS?
>
> Robert Trevellyan
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 11:59 AM Andrew Maksymowsky <
> andrew.maksymow...@sickkids.ca> wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I believe the last time this was asked was a few years ago and I was
>> wondering if anything has changed.
>> We’ve been running backuppc for a few years and now have new server for
>> it with 100 TB of space in hardware raid 6 array.
>>
>> We’re wondering what the recommended filesystem for backuppc would be on
>> an array of this size ?
>>
>> Our priority is stability over performance. We’ll be running ubuntu as
>> the operating system.
>>
>> Most of the hosts we’re backing up are fairly small (under 1 TB) linux
>> servers. Right now we’re backing up about 100 servers for a total of around
>> 20 TB. (We’re expecting the new server to last a few years).
>>
>> Thanks !
>>
>> - Andrew
>>
>> 
>>
>> This e-mail may contain confidential, personal and/or health
>> information(information which may be subject to legal restrictions on use,
>> retention and/or disclosure) for the sole use of the intended recipient.
>> Any review or distribution by anyone other than the person for whom it was
>> originally intended is strictly prohibited. If you have received this
>> e-mail in error, please contact the sender and delete all copies.
>>
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>>
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Re: [BackupPC-users] Filesystem Recommendation for 100 TB

2020-04-28 Thread Robert Trevellyan
Any reason not to use ZFS?

Robert Trevellyan


On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 11:59 AM Andrew Maksymowsky <
andrew.maksymow...@sickkids.ca> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I believe the last time this was asked was a few years ago and I was
> wondering if anything has changed.
> We’ve been running backuppc for a few years and now have new server for it
> with 100 TB of space in hardware raid 6 array.
>
> We’re wondering what the recommended filesystem for backuppc would be on
> an array of this size ?
>
> Our priority is stability over performance. We’ll be running ubuntu as the
> operating system.
>
> Most of the hosts we’re backing up are fairly small (under 1 TB) linux
> servers. Right now we’re backing up about 100 servers for a total of around
> 20 TB. (We’re expecting the new server to last a few years).
>
> Thanks !
>
> - Andrew
>
> 
>
> This e-mail may contain confidential, personal and/or health
> information(information which may be subject to legal restrictions on use,
> retention and/or disclosure) for the sole use of the intended recipient.
> Any review or distribution by anyone other than the person for whom it was
> originally intended is strictly prohibited. If you have received this
> e-mail in error, please contact the sender and delete all copies.
>
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Re: [BackupPC-users] Filesystem Recommendation for 100 TB

2020-04-28 Thread Michael Huntley
I’m still enjoying xfs.

Cheers! 

Mph

> On Apr 28, 2020, at 8:58 AM, Andrew Maksymowsky 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I believe the last time this was asked was a few years ago and I was 
> wondering if anything has changed.
> We’ve been running backuppc for a few years and now have new server for it 
> with 100 TB of space in hardware raid 6 array.
> 
> We’re wondering what the recommended filesystem for backuppc would be on an 
> array of this size ?
> 
> Our priority is stability over performance. We’ll be running ubuntu as the 
> operating system.
> 
> Most of the hosts we’re backing up are fairly small (under 1 TB) linux 
> servers. Right now we’re backing up about 100 servers for a total of around 
> 20 TB. (We’re expecting the new server to last a few years).
> 
> Thanks !
> 
> - Andrew
> 
> 
> 
> This e-mail may contain confidential, personal and/or health 
> information(information which may be subject to legal restrictions on use, 
> retention and/or disclosure) for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any 
> review or distribution by anyone other than the person for whom it was 
> originally intended is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail 
> in error, please contact the sender and delete all copies.
> 
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Re: [BackupPC-users] Filesystem Recommendation for 100 TB

2020-04-28 Thread Doug Lytle
>>> We’re wondering what the recommended filesystem for backuppc would be on an 
>>> array of this size ?

Depends on the file sizes that you are backing up.  I've read that XFS (My 
preferred) has issues with lots of small files.

Doug





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[BackupPC-users] Filesystem Recommendation for 100 TB

2020-04-28 Thread Andrew Maksymowsky
Hello,

I believe the last time this was asked was a few years ago and I was wondering 
if anything has changed.
We’ve been running backuppc for a few years and now have new server for it with 
100 TB of space in hardware raid 6 array.

We’re wondering what the recommended filesystem for backuppc would be on an 
array of this size ?

Our priority is stability over performance. We’ll be running ubuntu as the 
operating system.

Most of the hosts we’re backing up are fairly small (under 1 TB) linux servers. 
Right now we’re backing up about 100 servers for a total of around 20 TB. 
(We’re expecting the new server to last a few years).

Thanks !

- Andrew



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