Humility and self-delusion

2004-02-05 Thread David Friedman
There have been many really good Baha'is. These people have obviously been humble. What I have noticed over the years is that humility and self-delusion often go together. Humble people often genuinely believe themselves to be of a lower station than they really are, and express views which

RE: Humility and self-delusion

2004-02-05 Thread Sandra Chamberlain
Hi there David! I see you've been thinking again... you wrote: Humble people often genuinely believe themselves to be of a lower station than they really are, and express views which are false. My understanding of humbleness is ones ability to repress feelings of spiritual, intellectual, or

RE: Humility and self-delusion

2004-02-05 Thread David Friedman
Dear Sandra, Ruhiyyih Khanum thought that Shoghi Effendi had appointed her a Hand of the Cause just because she was his wife. I believe that was something Violette Nakhjavani said in her talk about Ruhiyyih Khanum at the North American ABS in 2000. I'm not saying that Shoghi Effendi said

Re: Humility and self-delusion

2004-02-05 Thread Barbara Clements
David, What I have learned in the almost 20 years I have been a Baha'i, is that we can not judge the spiritual station or even true personality of someone else. At 02:53 AM 2/5/2004, you wrote: There have been many really good Baha'is. These people have obviously been humble. What I have

Re: Humility and self-delusion

2004-02-05 Thread Mark A. Foster
David, Perhaps we are confusing humility with taraf, which can only be understood in the context of Persian culture. Humility and taraf are not exactly the same. Mark A. Foster * http://MarkFoster.net http://CompuServe.MarkFoster.name __ You

Re: Humility and self-delusion

2004-02-05 Thread Michael Alcorn
My question is, can anyone be totally objective about themselves? Therefore it figures that we must be even less able to be objective when trying to consider another's degree of humility or objectiveness? Only God kows our true worth so in my opinion we must develop the virtue of humility. I am

Humility and Abu'l-Fadl

2004-02-05 Thread Richard H. Gravelly
One of my favorite narratives regarding humility and its manifestation. The following story gives us a glimpse of his greatness. In the early years of this century, 'Abdu'l-Bah sent Mirza Abu'l-Fadl to the United States of America to teach and help the believers deepen in the Faith. After his

RE: Humility and Abu'l-Fadl

2004-02-05 Thread David Friedman
Dear Richard, The following story gives us a glimpse of his greatness. In the early years of this century, 'Abdu'l-Bahá sent Mirza Abu'l-Fadl to the United States of America to teach and help the believers deepen in the Faith. After his return, he and a number of American pilgrims were seated in

Re: Humility and self-delusion

2004-02-05 Thread Mark A. Foster
Hi, David, At 06:48 PM 2/5/2004, you wrote: Is Taraf that ridiculous custom where you lie to your host twice when they ask you for a meal, saying you don't want one, and then say you do when they ask you the third time? It may seem ridiculous to a non-Iranian. However, many Western customs

RE: Humility and Abu'l-Fadl

2004-02-05 Thread Mark A. Foster
David, At 07:14 PM 2/5/2004, you wrote: 'Abdu'l-Baha praised him, so it seems Mirza Abu'l-Fadl didn't realize he was contradicting 'Abdu'l-Baha (and thus God) in thinking that he was unworthy of praise. I wouldn't read too much into it. What the story tells me is that `Abdu'l-Baha was

Re: science and religion

2004-02-05 Thread William Michael
Mark, Sorry to take so much time to respond to your email. I had in fact somewhat misread your thought, which was that it would be inappropriate for a scientist, who is a Baha'i, to derive a hypothesis from the texts of the Baha'i Faith. I had read you as saying it would be bad scientific

More on science and religion

2004-02-05 Thread Mark A. Foster
Here is an edited posting I made to the Study Circle list: As I have suggested,, even if a *possibly* empirical claim were contained in the scriptures of my religion, I would not accept its authority over a scientific discovery. At one time, the Roman Catholic Church used biblical literalism