Re: Prophets and sin
for the people. If so, what did the people do wrong? I see nothing about the people of Israel mentioned, as is the case in the example 'Abdu'l-Baha cites. Furthermore, what David is described as doing appears pretty sinful to me. David David, I think perhaps the confusion here is due to a matter of perspective, and that when Abdu'l-Baha is referring to the prophets he is referring to the Holy Spirit that motivated them, rather than the human portion (e.g. the spirit of Elijah in human body of John the Baptist). See also: If thou be of the inmates of this city within the ocean of divine unity, thou wilt view all the Prophets and Messengers of God as one soul and one body, as one light and one spirit, in such wise that the first among them would be last and the last would be first. For they have all arisen to proclaim His Cause and have established the laws of divine wisdom. They are, one and all, the Manifestations of His Self, the Repositories of His might, the Treasuries of His Revelation, the Dawning-Places of His splendour and the Daysprings of His light. Through them are manifested the signs of sanctity in the realities of all things and the tokens of oneness in the essences of all beings. Through them are revealed the elements of glorification in the heavenly realities and the exponents of praise in the eternal essences. From them hath all creation proceeded and unto them shall return all that hath been mentioned. And since in their inmost Beings they are the same Luminaries and the self-same Mysteries, thou shouldst view their outward conditions in the same light, that thou mayest recognize them all as one Being, nay, find them united in their words, speech, and utterance. Wert thou to consider in this station the last of them to be the first, or conversely, thou wouldst indeed be speaking the truth, as hath been ordained by Him Who is the Wellspring of Divinity and the Source of Lordship: Say: Call upon God or call upon the All-Merciful: by whichsoever name ye will, invoke him, for He hath most excellent names.32 For they are all the Manifestations of the name of God, the Dawning-Places of His attributes, the Repositories of His might, and the Focal Points of His sovereignty, whilst God - magnified be His might and glory - is in His Essence sanctified above all names and exalted beyond even the loftiest attributes. Consider likewise the evidences of divine omnipotence both in their Souls and in their human Temples, that thine heart may be assured and that thou mayest be of them that speed through the realms of His nearness. (Baha'u'llah, Gems of Divine Mysteries, p. 32) and Know then that, inasmuch as all the Prophets are but one and the same soul, spirit, name, and attribute, thou must likewise see them all as bearing the name Muhammad and as being the son of Hasan, as having appeared from the Jabulqa of God's power and from the Jabulsa of His mercy. For by Jabulqa is meant none other than the treasure-houses of eternity in the all-highest heaven and the cities of the unseen in the supernal realm. We bear witness that Muhammad the son of Hasan was indeed in Jabulqa and appeared therefrom. Likewise, He Whom God shall make manifest abideth in that city until such time as God will have established Him upon the seat of His sovereignty. We, verily, acknowledge this truth and bear allegiance unto each and every one of them. We have chosen here to be brief in our elucidation of the meanings of Jabulqa, but if thou be of them that truly believe, thou shalt indeed comprehend all the true meanings of the mysteries enshrined within these Tablets. (Baha'u'llah, Gems of Divine Mysteries, p. 36) __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.net/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.net/bahai-st http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist (public) http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] (public)
Re: Prophecy
Few prophecies, especially biblical number prophecies, have obvious explanations. You have to *make* them fit. One thing I find interesting about the biblical prophecy concerning the timing in Daniel is that it appears that it can be interpreted in the same manner it was interpreted to validate Christ (see St. Augustine's City of God, Book 18 Chapter 34 from the fifth century). I've pointed this out before on this list, but here's the link with the exact quote in case anyone missed it. http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist/m39826.html Patti __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.net/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.net/bahai-st http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist (public) http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] (public)
Re: Baha'i Saints, Heroes, Martyrs, Administrators
I am a member of my local spiritual assembly, but I dont claim to be a Bahai administrator. I know one, though. He gets up at 5:00 every morning to pray for two hours for his community before he goes to work. He and his family support the activities of the friends, their firesides and feasts and devotional meetings. He is available to a believer with a stalled car, or a seeker with a profound question. I'm not about to argue the various ranks, because I think it probably depends on the individual person, and the judgment is God's, not mine; however, I would like to agree with the idea that a true administrator does have special responsibilities including the responsibility to carry forward necessary work for other people, not just him- or herself. Remember that many of the martyrs in Iran a couple of decades ago were administrators and specifically targeted, members of the NSA (and their replacements) and LSA's, until these bodies were suspended in obedience to the government's decree. Patti Here are a few quotes: If administrators of the law would take into consideration the spiritual consequences of their decisions, and follow the guidance of religion, They would be Divine agents in the world of action, the representatives of God for those who are on earth, and they would defend, for the love of God, the interests of His servants as they would defend their own. If a governor realizes his responsibility, and fears to defy the Divine Law, his judgments will be just. Above all, if he believes that the consequences of his actions will follow him beyond his earthly life, and that as he sows so must he reap, such a man will surely avoid injustice and tyranny. (Abdu'l-Baha, Paris Talks, p. 157) The administrators of the Faith of God must be like unto shepherds. Their aim should be to dispel all the doubts, misunderstanding and harmful differences which may arise in the community of the believers. And this they can adequately achieve provided they are motivated by a true sense of love for their fellow-brethren coupled with firm determination to act with justice in all cases which are submitted to them for their consideration. (From a letter written on behalf of the Guardian to an individual believer, March 9, 1934: The Local Spiritual Assembly, p. 23) (Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 33) ... Their functions is not to dictate, but to consult, and consult not only among themselves, but as much as possible with the friends whom they represent. They must regard themselves in no other light but that of chosen instrument for a more efficient and dignified presentation of the Cause of God. They should never be led to suppose that they are the central ornaments of the body of the Cause, intrinsically superior to others in capacity or merit, and sole promoters of its teachings and principles. They should approach their task with extreme humility, and endeavor by their open-mindedness, their high sense of justice and duty, their candour, their modesty, their entire devotion to the welfare and interest of the friends, the Cause, and humanity, to win not only the confidence and the genuine support and respect of those who they should serve, but also their esteem and real affection. They must at all times avoid the spirit of exclusiveness, the atmosphere of secrecy, free themselves from a domineering attitude, and banish all forms of prejudice and passion from their deliberations. (Shoghi Effendi, From a letter to the Bahs of America, February 23, 1924: Bah Administration, p. 64) (Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 32) But as already emphasized, both the spirit and the form, are essential to the safe and speedy development of the Administration. To maintain full balance between them is the main and unique responsibility of the administrators of the Cause. (From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to the National Spiritual Assembly of the United States, December 10, 1933) (Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 35) ... So often ... situations arise because there is tendency, very human but not very kind, for late-comers to belittle the work done by the first believers and hurt their feelings. Those responsible therefore, for carrying on the work must be extremely tactful and loving in their efforts to prevent a rift from occurring. it is very difficult for the administrators of the Cause to learn to be absolutely impartial, patient and wise, and very difficult for the believers to learn to give up personal will to the will of the majority! But this is Bahullhs standard, and they must all constantly strive to attain it. (From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to the Inter-America Committee, March 28, 1950) (Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 39) __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the
Re: Looks like I didn't get the memo
A long time ago we bought some prayer beads, and after having them for some years I counted them and found that they had made a mistake and there were only 94. I wasn't too happy about that, but hopefully we have an excuse for saying one less than the required amount! Why don't you just remember to say one extra after using the 94 beads? I have at least two sets of prayer beads, but I've found that using my hands is the easiest and effective. Counting the joints (and fingertips) on one hand is 19, and using each finger (and thumb) on the other hand for each 19 (5 x 19) gives 95. Perhaps that is why the number 95 was chosen . . . . __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.net/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.net/bahai-st http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist (public) http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] (public)
Re: America and the Most Great Peace: More elucidation
I agree. Our community still has a Knight of Baha'u'llah who has wonderful stories to tell, and I've just sent out an e-mail to find someone to get her and a video camera together. Dear Brent, You are most correct in identifying our neglegence. How often I've heard someone say "We should have brought a camera!" or "What year was that?" -- You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://list.jccc.net/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=bahai-st news://list.jccc.net/bahai-st http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist (public) http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] (public)
Signs of the times
Hi all, I came across the following in the Qur'an this week (Sura 34): "Never, say the unbelievers, will the Hour come upon us! Say: Yea,by my Lord who knoweth the unseen, it will surely come upon you! not theweight of a mote either in the Heavens or in the Earth escapeth him; nor isthere aught less than this or aught greater, which is not in the clear Book; - "To the intent that God may reward those who have believed and done thethings that are right: Pardon and a noble provision shall they receive: "But as for those who aim to invalidate our signs, - a chastisement ofpainful torment awaiteth them! "And they to whom knowledge hath been given see that what hath been sentdown to thee from thy Lord is the truth, and that it guideth into the way ofthe Glorious one, the Praiseworthy." I'm wondering how (if) Islam interprets the phrase "what hath been sentdown to thee from thy Lord is the truth" in relation to the signs of the Hour. Can any of our Islamic scholars address this one? I know Shi'a Islam was focused on the year 1260, based on the death of the last Imam plus 1000 years; however, has Sunni Islam ever come up with a specific date for the "Hour"? 'Abdu'l-Baha has addressed the datesin the prophecy of Daniel in "Some Answered Questions" and William Sears has discussed them further in "Thief in the Night". It seems to me that "sent down to thee from thy Lord" could be applied to the signs indicated by the "Lord", Christ, and specifically to the prophecy in Daniel he refers to when asked by his disciples about the signs of the end of the age in Matthew 24:3 15. Is there any record of this being interpreted this way? It seems likethis should be a strong proof, especially since this same prophetic symbol-- the "abomination of desolation"ofDaniel citedin Matthew 24 --apparently was also used as a proof of Christeven before it was used inthe fifth century by Augustine (http://ccel.org/fathers/NPNF1-02/Augustine/cog/t101.htm#t101.htm.5). Patti -- You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://list.jccc.net/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=bahai-st news://list.jccc.net/bahai-st http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist (public) http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] (public)
Re: Socrates revisited
This is an ancient thread (in more ways than one), but I just came across some more information and have a couple more questions and comments.. However Socrates lived between 469-399 and as far as I know the last Prophets of Israel were Malachi500-450 Jonah450-400. B.C.E ( I'm not sure Jonah's dates are accurate or if we should consider him a prophet) Malachi (a probable contemporary of Nehemiah) was apparently written sometime between 440 and 430 B.D.according to the NIV Study Bible, so Socrates would have been around 29-39 years old at the time it was written, definitely of an age to converse with the writer. Additionally, while not designated prophets, Ezra and Neamiah were contemporaries of Malachi, with whom Socrates could also have conversed. Ezra and Nehemiah led returns from Babylon in 458 454 B.C. Either of whom chould have discussed the prophets with Socrates (had he traveled to Jerusalem), or who may have even journyed to Athens on trading missions to equip some aspect of the re-building of Jerusalem. Ezra 7:8 7:9 indicate that the journey from Babylon to Jeruslamen by land took 4 months, including children and elderly. This trip is roughly a similar distance to what the journey from Athens to Jerusalem would have been, so assuming that Socrates travelled by land (if he did indded travel to the Holy Land) he could have probably done it in less time than that. And, as noted before, given the Athenian seafaring culture, he would likely have traveled by ship, which could make the one way journey in a week. Zechariah born in Babylonia, was young during the first return to Jerusalem from Babylon in 538/537 BC. The NIV Study Bible I'm looking at suggests he may have ministered into the reign of Artaxerxes [465-424]. It may be a bit of a stretch, but if so, depending on how far into the reign of Artaxerxes he survived, a 20 year old Socrates could have met with a 90 + year old Zechariah (if Zechariah started his ministry at around age 20 in 520 B.C.). The information I have on Jonah (again from the NIV study Bible) indicates he was a contemporary of Amos, who prophesied in the 792-753 time frame, which would not make him a candidate to have talked with Socrates. Now while it is possible that Socrates went to Israel and studied the works of the prophets, I am not sure how he could have found the time to learn Hebrew. Aramaic was the language of international diplomacy at that time, according to the NIV Study Bible (p. 667), and portions Ezra (the kings letters) are in Aramaic. Given their service in the court of Persia, it is likely that many, if not all of the Hebrew leaders of the time know Aramaic. My question is if it is fair to assume that Socrates also spoke Aramaic? Is there any evidence for this one way or another? It seems like mass transfers of thousands of people from Babylon to the Holy Land would have been noted in Athens. And again, given all of this movement of people, is it not likely that some of the Hebrews ended up traveling to or moving to Athens, where Socrates' interest could have been piqued enough to visit, talk with a prophet or two, and check out the rebuilding of the temple and Jerusalem? I'm not saying that this was necessarily the case, but I think it's worth considering the possibilities. As I noted before, just because Xenophon didn't mention a trip by Socrates to the Holy Land doesn't mean it didn't happen, Xenophon was a generation younger than Socrates, and would not necessarily have known or cared about everything Socrates did in his younger years (yes, his early military career was of some interest to Xenophon because he was a military man himself). I'm certain I don't know everything my parents did in their youth (although I do have a rough idea of where the traveled), but I don't know much, if anything, about the youthful travels of my friend's parents or my older friends. Patti -- You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://list.jccc.net/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=bahai-st news://list.jccc.net/bahai-st http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist (public) http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] (public)
Re: LANGUAGES OF REVELATION
Maybe, Bahá'u'lláh refers to the old Syriac = the Aramaean language. The Hebrew language has alphabet from 1000 BCE. The first writings in Aramaean language date of the IX-VIII BCE. The Hebrew Writing is much older. There is not Sacred Writing in Aramaic previous to the Writing Sacred in Hebrew. I'm definitely not a language scholar, but what comes to my mind is theAssyrian languageof Mesopotamia of 4 millennia ago (I looked it up to check on the time, the book also mentioned a Babylonian dielect - Akkadian -from the same time frame; however, it seems like "Syriac" and "Assyrian" may come from the same root word. The language wasrecorded and preserved in cuneiform on clay stone,and metal.) Patti -- You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://list.jccc.net/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=bahai-st news://list.jccc.net/bahai-st http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist (public) http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] (public)
Re: An answer re: Love Thine Enemy
That said, I would like to note one thing, given our interfaith nature: [minister X] describes love of enemy as the most ignored commandment. I have great respect for [minister X] and the work that she does. But let it be said that not all of us have this as a commandment at all. True, however, it might help to look a little more closely at the words love and enemy. It is true that his tradition does not require one to love the enemy; however, it does demand love of God: Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. (Deuteronomy 6:4). It also demands the love of the stranger (in addition to the neighbor): But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God. (Leviticus 19:34). [Baha'u'llah wrote: O My Brother! Until thou enter the Egypt of love, thou shalt never come to the Joseph of the Beauty of the Friend . . . The Seven Valleys, p. 9] As a Jew, how could I love the Nazis? Who could ask such a thing? I believe some enemies make themselves unworthy of our love, and that our obligation is--as Deuteronomy notes--to sweep the evil from our midst. Enemy does not always equate to evil (nor stranger to enemy). Good is the enemy of evil and evil the enemy of good. In an interfaith dialogue perhaps it is important to remember that the evil and the enemy are not always the other, but can be found within ourselves, and needs to be fought there as well. For example, Saul the 1st king of Israel, became the enemy because of his disobedience to God's commandments. Then said Samuel [to Saul], Wherefore then dost thou ask of me, seeing the LORD is departed from thee, and is become thine enemy? (1 Samuel 28:16) I need to cut this short for now, so I won't take time to think through sorting out how to put this in Jewish terms; however, Paul, who was familiar with the Jewish teachings wrote the following in Galatians: 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. Note that hatred, wrath, strife, envy, and murder are all considered works of the flesh. And as such, while these are concepts, rather than physical things, they are between heaven and earth and I think if they are put before the commandment of God to love, they can be equated with idolatry, which is forbidden in Deuteronomy: 5:7 Thou shalt have none other gods before me. 5:8 Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth: 5:9 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me, 5:10 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments. Nowadays, it seems like some religious fanatics are more focused on worshipping their vanities and hatred of the other than they are on following the laws of God. We can only pray that interfaith dialogue can promote the fruits of the Spirit, as mentioned above. There is no law against love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, and temperance, and I think (at least in most cases) they are the commandment. -- You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://list.jccc.net/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=bahai-st news://list.jccc.net/bahai-st http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist (public) http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] (public)
Re: Manifestations only from the east?
Sandra wrote: "I could find nothing in Ocean that states they MUST come from the East. In many of His talks -particularly in Paris and London, Abdu'l-Baha draws on the point that the Manifestations HAVE appeared in the East. However, in the Revelation of Baha'u'llah, I sense that He is saying from whatever location; the potency of the Word of God permeates all creation. Perhaps "receptivity" is the key ingredient in the capability of Indigenous Prophets to foretell future events." Dear Sandra and David, Perhaps the next manifestation will come from California (this speculation is only half tongue-in-cheek)? In Tablets of the Divine Plan Abdu'l-Baha compares it to the Holy Land (quote below). Patti "THE BLESSED state of California bears the utmost similarity to the Holy Land, that is, the country of Palestine. The air is of the utmost temperance, the plain very spacious, and the fruits of Palestine are seen in that state in the utmost of freshness and delicacy. When Abdul-Bahá was traveling and journeying through those states, he found himself in Palestine, for from every standpoint there was a perfect likeness between this region and that state. Even the shores of the Pacific Ocean, in some instances, show perfect resemblance to the shores of the Holy Landeven the flora of the Holy Land have grown on those shoresthe study of which had led to much speculation and wonder. "Likewise, in the state of California and other Western states, wonderful scenes of the world of nature, which bewilder the minds of men, are manifest. Lofty mountains, deep canyons, great and majestic waterfalls, and giant trees are witnessed on all sides, while its soil is in the utmost fertility and richness. That blessed state is similar to the Holy Land and that region and that country like unto a delectable paradise, is in many ways identical with Palestine. Now just as there are natural resemblances, heavenly resemblances must also be acquired. "The lights of the divine traces are manifest in Palestine. The majority of the Israelitish Prophets raised the call of the Kingdom of God in this holy ground. Having spread the spiritual teachings, the nostrils of the spiritually-minded ones became fragrant, the eyes of the illumined souls became brightened, the ears were thrilled through this song, the hearts obtained eternal life from the soul-refreshing breeze of the Kingdom of God and gained supreme illumination from the splendor of the Sun of Reality. Then from this region the light was spread to Europe, America, Asia, Africa and Australia. "Now California and the other Western States must earn an ideal similarity with the Holy Land, and from that state and that region the breaths of the Holy Spirit be diffused to all parts of America and Europe, that the call of the Kingdom of God may exhilarate and rejoice all the ears, the divine principles bestow a new life, the different parties may become one party, the divergent ideas may disappear and revolve around one unique center, the East and the West of America may embrace each other, the anthem of the oneness of the world of humanity may confer a new life upon all the children of men, and the tabernacle of universal peace be pitched on the apex of America; thus Europe and Africa may become vivified with the breaths of the Holy Spirit, this world may become another world, the body politic may attain to a new exhilaration, and just as in the state of California and other Western States the marvelous scenes of the world of nature are evident and manifest, the great signs of the Kingdom of God may also be unveiled so that the body may correspond with the spirit, the outward world may become a symbol of the inward world, and the mirror of the earth may become the mirror of the Kingdom, reflecting the ideal virtues of heaven." (Abdu'l-Baha, Tablets of the Divine Plan, p. 85) -- You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://list.jccc.net/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=bahai-st news://list.jccc.net/bahai-st http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist (public) http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] (public)
Re: Conferred Infallibility of the House of Justice
I'm especially suspicious of George Latimer's pilgrim's notes. I recall him asking 'Abdu'l-Baha if WWI was the Battle of Armaggedon. 'Abdu'l-Baha supposedly answered, Yes, what could be worse!. Well most of us can think of a lot of things today! Dear Susan, I'm not certain that Armageddon necessarily had to be the worst battle; however, it appears to have been a prophecy specific to a certain place and time. It is pretty clear that 'Abdu'l-Baha did equate WW I with Armageddon, for example see the following passages from Baha'u'llah and the New Era relating it to specific prophecies in Daniel and Revelation. When 'Abdu-l-Baha, in 1912, said it would occur in two years I think perhaps he was referring to a specific biblical prophecy (as in the passages that lead to 1844). I'm not certain of the exact passage now (it has been a few years since I looked at it), but I know the Jehovah's Witnesses refer to a prophecy that leads to 1914 and the beginning of WW I by calculating dates in a similar manner to the say people arrived at 1844. There is also the book from George Ronald: The Servant, The General Armageddon: The true story of an epic adventure in the footsteps of prophecy by Roderic Maude and Derwent Maude. World War I was a major turning point in history. Among other things, it played a part in the following ends of the Turkish and Russian empires. Included with that was a major step in the end of the Caliphate with the defeat of Turkey in WW I (other steps include the Young Turk Revolution in 1908-9 and the final end by Ataturk in 1924). In their book the Maudes have done research on events of the war in the Holy Land, including a study of British archieves. It appears that General Allenby's battle plan in August 1918, which ended up being fought in the vicinity of Meggido, was developed with specific instructions from the British War Cabinet to protect Abdu'l-Baha and the Holy Family becuase Djemal Pasha had given orders for Abdu'l-Baha to be crucified on Mount Carmel in the event of a Turkish loss. A member of Allenby's staff, Tudor Pole, while not a Baha'i himself, was a friend of the Baha'is and got word of Djemal Pasha's orders to the British War Cabinet, which then gave insturctions to Allenby to protect Abdu'l-Baha (and it may have been that by following these orders Allenby developed the plan that allowed the British army to break through Turkish lines and sweep over Mount Carmel into the vicinity of Meggido and a British victory over the Turkish army) . Patti Both Bahá'u'lláh and 'Abdu'l-Bahá on many occasions foretold with surprising accuracy the coming of the Great War of 1914-1918. At Sacramento, California, on October 26, 1912, Abdu'l-Bahá said:-Today the European continent is like an arsenal. It is a storehouse of explosives, ready for just a spark, and one spark could set aflame the whole of Europe, particularly at this time, when the Balkan question is before the world. In many of His addresses in America and Europe He gave similar warning. In another address in California in October 1912 He said: - We are on the eve of the Battle of Armageddon referred to in the sixteenth chapter of Revelation. The time is two years hence, when only a spark will set aflame the whole of Europe. The social unrest in all countries, the growing religious scepticism antecedent to the millennium, and already here, will set aflame the whole of Europe as is prophesied in the Book of Daniel and in the Book (Revelation) of John. By 1917 kingdoms will fall and cataclysms will rock the earth. (Reported by Mrs. Corinne True in The North Shore Review, September 26, 1914, Chicago, U.S.A.) On the eve of the great conflict He said: - A great melee of the civilized nations is in sight. A tremendous conflict is at hand. The world is at the threshold of a most tragic struggle. ... Vast armies-millions of men-are being mobilized and stationed at their frontiers. They are being prepared for the fearful contest. The slightest friction will bring them into a terrific crash, and there will be a conflagration, the like of which is not recorded in the past history of mankind. (At Haifa, August 3, 1914). Social Troubles After the War Both Bahá'u'lláh and 'Abdu'l-Bahá also foretold a period of great social upheaval, conflict and calamity as an inevitable result of the irreligion and prejudices, the ignorance and superstition, prevalent throughout the world. The great international military conflict was but one phase of this upheaval. In a Tablet dated January, 1920, He wrote: - O ye lovers of truth! O ye servants of mankind! As the sweet fragrance of your thoughts and high intentions has breathed upon me, I feel that my soul is irresistibly prompted to communicate with you. Ponder in your hearts how grievous is the turmoil in which the world is plunged; how the nations of the earth are besmeared with human blood, nay their very soil is turned into clotted gore. The flame of war has caused so wild a
Re: Beings and creatures
Matt, Additionally, inherent in the idea of every planet having its own creaturesisan assumption about all creatures that ever existed or might ever exist on the planet. All of Earth's creatures do not currently exist, many are extinct and there are probably many more speciesto appear in the future. However, they ALL are Earth's creatures, regardless of the time frame. Patti So my initial reaction to this information was that Baha'u'llah perhaps had a non-conventional understanding of what constitutes a "creature". So, I studied the Baha'i Writings and sure enough 'Abdu'l-Baha called things like atoms and planets "beings", and Baha'u'llah says that everything other than the Word of God is a "creature",and likewise the Bab called the nineteenLetters of the Living a single composite "creature". This resolution satisfied me forsome time. But now I am coming to understand that these other references to creature mean what you had implied, it can either mean a living being or simply some kind of self-contained object, like a rock. For example this is what Persian speakers in my community tell me that the word "mawjuud"mentioned by Khazehmeans.But the reference to "creatures" on another planet means only plants and animals. -- You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://list.jccc.net/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=bahai-st news://list.jccc.net/bahai-st http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist (public) http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] (public)
Re: Anything new on the House and women question?
That's fine. But the only thing I'm interested is to find out if there is
something from the World Centre. That's what I like to share with my
friends who left the Faith because of this issue.
Ahang,
This isn't from the World Center, but here are a couple of comments and
quotes from the writings I compiled a while back to provide for someone else
who raised this question. There might be something here you could share
with your friends. The other thing that comes to mind is the preference in
the education of girls.
Patti
**
The role of women in Baha'i Faith:
Yes, women do not serve on the Universal House of Justice (they do vote for
it's members), but as 'Abdu'l-Baha writes (more of the quote is included
below)--There is Divine wisdom in this which will presently be made
manifest even as the mid-day sun. [All in all, I'll take that on faith for
now. If I had to guess at the Divine wisdom--I think perhaps it might be
to keep the balance from shifting too far in this Day to the feminine
qualities of civilization as a reaction to the endless wars and tribulations
we've seen over the last millennia when males were dominant.]
A couple of other points (the quotes below include additional details and
references):
1. In this Day, the Most Great Spirit appeared as a female. [ . . .Most
Great Spirit, as designated by Himself, and symbolized in the Zoroastrian,
the Mosaic, the Christian, and Muhammadan Dispensations by the Sacred Fire,
the Burning Bush, the Dove and the Angel Gabriel respectively, Shoghi
Effendi, God Passes By, p. 101] i.e. God is a woman in this Day?
2. Tahirih (a woman) proclaimed the Advent of the Baha'u'llah's Revelation
(sounded the trumpet of, as in Matthew 24:31?), when she appeared without a
veil. I think perhaps there is more significance in this than we generally
realize.
'O maidservant of God! Know thou that in the sight of God, the conduct of
women is the same as that of men From the spiritual point of view ...
there is no difference between women and men ' He added, however: 'As to
the House of Justice: according to the explicit text of the Law of God, its
membership is exclusively reserved to men. There is Divine wisdom in this
which will presently be made manifest even as the mid-day sun.'
('Abdu'l-Baha - From letter of the Universal House of Justice to an
individual believer, May 26, 1971)
(Compilations, Lights of Guidance)
Ere long the days shall come when the men addressing the women, shall say:
'Blessed are ye! Blessed are ye! Verily ye are worthy of every gift. Verily
ye deserve to adorn your heads with the crown of everlasting glory, because
in sciences and arts, in virtues and perfections ye shall become equal to
men, and as regards tenderness of heart and the abundance of mercy and
sympathy ye are superior'.
('Abdu'l-Baha: Paris Talks, 1961 U.K. edition, pp. 182-184)
In His Suratu'l-Haykal (the Surih of the Temple) He [Baha'u'llah] thus
describes those breathless moments when the Maiden, symbolizing the Most
Great Spirit proclaimed His mission to the entire creation: While engulfed
in tribulations I heard a most wondrous, a most sweet voice, calling above
My head. Turning My face, I beheld a Maiden -- the embodiment of the
remembrance of the name of My Lord -- suspended in the air before Me. So
rejoiced was she in her very soul that her countenance shone with the
ornament of the good-pleasure of God, and her cheeks glowed with the
brightness of the All-Merciful. Betwixt earth and heaven she was raising a
call which captivated the hearts and minds of men. She was imparting to both
My inward and outer being tidings which rejoiced My soul, and the souls of
God's honored servants. Pointing with her finger unto My head, she addressed
all who are in heaven and all who are on earth, saying: 'By God! This is the
Best-Beloved of the worlds, and yet ye comprehend not. This is the Beauty of
God amongst you, and the power of His sovereignty within you, could ye but
understand. This is the Mystery of God and His Treasure, the Cause of God
and His glory unto all who are in the kingdoms of Revelation and of
creation, if ye be of them that perceive.'
(Shoghi Effendi, God Passes By, p. 101 )
Tahirih, with her face unveiled, stepped from her garden, advancing to the
pavilion of Baha'u'llah; and as she came, she shouted aloud these words:
The Trumpet is sounding! The great Trump is blown! The universal Advent is
now proclaimed![1]
[1 Cf. Qur'an 74:8 and 6:73. Also Isaiah 27:13 and Zechariah 9:14.]
(Abdu'l-Baha, Memorials of the Faithful, p. 202)
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