Re: [BangPypers] looking for a passionate python (and pref C+=) full stack developer to partner on an equity basis

[Saifur Rahman Mohsin via BangPypers]

Hello

Not really... Please name a few companies and I would be surprised. Most of 
these successful companies were started with the founders being “partners” from 
the start. I doubt there are any companies that gave ESOPs in exchange for work 
to employees and grew successful i.e. where the person was hired as an employee 
in exchange of equity. I know there are successful companies that are owned by 
completely by the employees thro equity but not any where employees worked for 
free under the founders in exchange for ESOPs. Even the most successful ones 
like Apple (Wozniak, Holt, Gary), Facebook (Dustin, Eduardo, Chris), Microsoft 
(Ballmer) clearly paid their early employees well in addition to ESOPs. Even if 
you wrote on Quora, you’d have gotten similar answers perhaps even one from me 
coz I happen to be one of those Quora writers (you can check me out and follow 
me if you like some of my answers. It would be much appreciated if you do).

And what Satyakam said has already been achieved and I know people who work in 
the barter method for kicks—I happen to be one of them. There are reasons I do 
this, one of which being that I make good bank from my clients already and 
wouldn’t mind giving back to the world some free code as long at it makes a 
difference—but working for a private company for free wouldn’t really achieve 
that, not really. The thing is that the barter system works where there needs 
to be an exchange of “some value” and equal value means it’s totally a WIN-WIN. 
But what you asked here is known as “volunteer” or “donation work” and that too 
not for the public or those who are in “need” but for those who “want”. Here 
one person is getting value and the other is getting nothing back. Even if you 
were to give 90% of a company that holds no value, it’s still 0 value. Worse 
case is giving out a percentage of an unsuccessful, bankrupt company (but lets 
not get there). X * 0 will always be 0. So then what do devs like me who do 
work for things other than money work for? Well most of us do open-source 
development (you can find such people on github). Although I haven’t done much 
of this for the past 1-2 years due to others more important engagements but 
before that my github activity was lit—you can check it out and see that I’ve 
contributed quite some code for free (it’s github.com/SaifurRahmanMohsin). At 
one point, more than 90% of my code was given away for free. Even if you ask 
such a person to work for ESOP they would do it only if it’s some public 
company like Google, Apple where their work would have some value and they’d 
get back in the form of ESOP atleast. Even open source work has a value 
associated with it—you are contributing to society as a whole and get off from 
the respect you earn for that work and the thought that you have put something 
meaningful out there that would help many by making their life better is 
enthralling. But these folks wouldn’t really work for ESOPs for a new startup 
esp. the ones who are really good at their work. You can find people who would 
be willing to work for free but they won’t provide great work, I can assure 
you. They’ll be learners willing to work for experience and I do have few 
contacts of such people because I know a few who buzzed me asking to add them 
as their assistant for free and have done so multiple times only for me to 
reply that I’d rather work alone. You could try a combo of ESOP and pay esp. 
since you are looking for good devs. Trust me you can keep searching but you 
won’t find any good devs who’d work for ESOPs for a new startup.

Saifur Rahman Mohsin
Technology Evangelist

On 03-Aug-2018, at 6:23 AM, satyakam goswami  wrote:

Whatever Techies/Hackers too have needs and need money as currency to give 
dedicated time and to satisfy there own needs , have not seen anyone just 
working full time for Equity only, i feel the flip side is those  who have 
money will have there own thinking and stuff for kicks , also they are not 
hungry for sops so this best match talent pool is out of  reach , then come the 
hackers who are bottom feeding in the ecosystem they i have seen only 
understand the language of money they don't understand the concept of sweat 
equity etc..  still we as humans have not reached the barter system or a game 
in which people help/hack just for kicks

for educational purposes to all the  entrepreneurs out there also don't 
understand no business can be started without any Capital by Capital i mean 
many things Human As Capital,Time as Capital,Social Capital, Money etc...

Having said that i think i do know someone who does hitch hiking may be 
interested in something like this  :-) , but at the moment he too is busy with 
something meaningful which gets him paid in the form of money!
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Re: [BangPypers] looking for a passionate python (and pref C+=) full stack developer to partner on an equity basis

[Raghuraman Ramachandran]

well if i had wanted to ask a question that goes like : "Can I hire
someone on only equity to begin with?", I could have gone to Quora to
appreciate the din of intellectuality clamouring for attention! But
the fact that there are successful companies that started this way is
the reason for my request in this forum. Thank you for the responses
though. Much appreciated..

On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 1:53 AM, satyakam goswami  wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 12:57 AM Saifur Rahman Mohsin via BangPypers <
> bangpypers@python.org> wrote:
>
>> Tough cookie. I wouldn’t classify it as a job since it’s equity from a
>> non-public entity so it doesn’t hold any value. I think the subject tag
>> should be something like [Volunteer wanted] or [Looking for Volunteers].
>>
>
> Whatever Techies/Hackers too have needs and need money as currency to give
> dedicated time and to satisfy there own needs , have not seen anyone just
> working full time for Equity only, i feel the flip side is those  who have
> money will have there own thinking and stuff for kicks , also they are not
> hungry for sops so this best match talent pool is out of  reach , then come
> the hackers who are bottom feeding in the ecosystem they i have seen only
> understand the language of money they don't understand the concept of sweat
> equity etc..  still we as humans have not reached the barter system or a
> game in which people help/hack just for kicks
>
> for educational purposes to all the  entrepreneurs out there also don't
> understand no business can be started without any Capital by Capital i mean
> many things Human As Capital,Time as Capital,Social Capital, Money etc...
>
> Having said that i think i do know someone who does hitch hiking may be
> interested in something like this  :-) , but at the moment he too is busy
> with something meaningful which gets him paid in the form of money!
>
> cheers,
> -Satya
> Satyaakam.net  | fossevents.in |
> ** For all official purposes use my name as Satyakam Goswami **
> ___
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
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Re: [BangPypers] looking for a passionate python (and pref C+=) full stack developer to partner on an equity basis

[satyakam goswami]

On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 12:57 AM Saifur Rahman Mohsin via BangPypers <
bangpypers@python.org> wrote:

> Tough cookie. I wouldn’t classify it as a job since it’s equity from a
> non-public entity so it doesn’t hold any value. I think the subject tag
> should be something like [Volunteer wanted] or [Looking for Volunteers].
>

Whatever Techies/Hackers too have needs and need money as currency to give
dedicated time and to satisfy there own needs , have not seen anyone just
working full time for Equity only, i feel the flip side is those  who have
money will have there own thinking and stuff for kicks , also they are not
hungry for sops so this best match talent pool is out of  reach , then come
the hackers who are bottom feeding in the ecosystem they i have seen only
understand the language of money they don't understand the concept of sweat
equity etc..  still we as humans have not reached the barter system or a
game in which people help/hack just for kicks

for educational purposes to all the  entrepreneurs out there also don't
understand no business can be started without any Capital by Capital i mean
many things Human As Capital,Time as Capital,Social Capital, Money etc...

Having said that i think i do know someone who does hitch hiking may be
interested in something like this  :-) , but at the moment he too is busy
with something meaningful which gets him paid in the form of money!

cheers,
-Satya
Satyaakam.net  | fossevents.in |
** For all official purposes use my name as Satyakam Goswami **
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Re: [BangPypers] looking for a passionate python (and pref C+=) full stack developer to partner on an equity basis

[Saifur Rahman Mohsin via BangPypers]

Tough cookie. I wouldn’t classify it as a job since it’s equity from a 
non-public entity so it doesn’t hold any value. I think the subject tag should 
be something like [Volunteer wanted] or [Looking for Volunteers].

Saifur Rahman Mohsin
Technology Evangelist

On 02-Aug-2018, at 10:29 PM, Jaysinh shukla  wrote:

On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 6:06 PM, Raghuraman Ramachandran <
optionsra...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear BangPypers
> 
> We are a small fintech looking for a full time person who can come on
> board as the lead developer purely on an equity basis.
> 
> Preferred someone with not more than 5 years experience in the
> fintech/financial industry having superb grasp of
> python/django/angularjs and preferably some C or C++ knowledge.
> 
> Our product is receiving rave reviews and we are in the stage of
> prospecting and clinching some sales but nothing is guaranteed yet.
> Therefore, looking for someone who is really self driven and who
> understands the risks associated in joining such ventures. What is
> guaranteed though is a lot of learning.
> 
> If interested please mail your cv here.
> 
> Thank you,
> Raghu
> ___
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> 


Please add appropriate tags in the subject of the mail. All the job opening
emails should have an additional tag "[JOB]" in the subject.
-- 

 Jaysinh :)
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Re: [BangPypers] looking for a passionate python (and pref C+=) full stack developer to partner on an equity basis

[Jaysinh shukla]

On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 6:06 PM, Raghuraman Ramachandran <
optionsra...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear BangPypers
>
> We are a small fintech looking for a full time person who can come on
> board as the lead developer purely on an equity basis.
>
> Preferred someone with not more than 5 years experience in the
> fintech/financial industry having superb grasp of
> python/django/angularjs and preferably some C or C++ knowledge.
>
> Our product is receiving rave reviews and we are in the stage of
> prospecting and clinching some sales but nothing is guaranteed yet.
> Therefore, looking for someone who is really self driven and who
> understands the risks associated in joining such ventures. What is
> guaranteed though is a lot of learning.
>
> If interested please mail your cv here.
>
> Thank you,
> Raghu
> ___
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>


Please add appropriate tags in the subject of the mail. All the job opening
emails should have an additional tag "[JOB]" in the subject.
-- 

  Jaysinh :)
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[BangPypers] looking for a passionate python (and pref C+=) full stack developer to partner on an equity basis

[Raghuraman Ramachandran]

Dear BangPypers

We are a small fintech looking for a full time person who can come on
board as the lead developer purely on an equity basis.

Preferred someone with not more than 5 years experience in the
fintech/financial industry having superb grasp of
python/django/angularjs and preferably some C or C++ knowledge.

Our product is receiving rave reviews and we are in the stage of
prospecting and clinching some sales but nothing is guaranteed yet.
Therefore, looking for someone who is really self driven and who
understands the risks associated in joining such ventures. What is
guaranteed though is a lot of learning.

If interested please mail your cv here.

Thank you,
Raghu
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