Re: ipv6 adoption (HE & DNSSEC)

2022-02-17 Thread Timothe Litt

On 17-Feb-22 04:06, G.W. Haywood wrote:

Hi Grant,

On Thu, 17 Feb 2022, Grant Taylor wrote:

Please clarify if you are talking about DNSSEC for your own zone that 
they are doing secondary transfers of or if you are talking about 
DNSSEC for the IPv6's reverse DNS namespace that they delegate to you.


Ah, good point Grant.

The reverse zones are delegated to us but they aren't signed.

Yes, the issue with HE is that while they will delegate reverse zones to 
you, they don't accept DS records.  So you can sign your zones, but 
there is no signature chain to the root.


Before ISC retired DLV, it was possible to use that path - and I did.  
But unfortunately that ship has sailed.


dnsviz shows that HE hasn't signed its reverse zone.  That would be a 
prerequisite to DNSSEC for zones it delegates to customers, as would be 
a mechanism for submitting DS records to HE.


The issue has been open for (almost) 12 years.  I haven't seen any 
updates from HE since the incoherent reply in the thread at 
https://forums.he.net/index.php?topic=890.msg22055#msg22055


It's rather difficult to exert pressure on a vendor that's providing a 
free service.   But enough polite requests might help.


Perhaps further discussion of this belongs elsewhere...it seems to be 
wandering from BIND.


Timothe Litt
ACM Distinguished Engineer
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if any, on the matters discussed.



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Re: ipv6 adoption

2022-02-17 Thread G.W. Haywood via bind-users

Hi Grant,

On Thu, 17 Feb 2022, Grant Taylor wrote:

Please clarify if you are talking about DNSSEC for your own zone that 
they are doing secondary transfers of or if you are talking about DNSSEC 
for the IPv6's reverse DNS namespace that they delegate to you.


Ah, good point Grant.

The reverse zones are delegated to us but they aren't signed.

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RE: ipv6 adoption

2022-02-16 Thread Andrew Baker via bind-users
I'm already using Hurricane for my external slave servers to I will have a dig 
through their site thanks

Andy Baker

IT Technical Lead | SIIL Corporate IT
Tel: +974-44838733, Direct: +974-44485711| Fax: +974-44838732
Salam International Investments Ltd. 
Maysaloun Street - West Bay | Salam Plaza Tower, 3rd Floor | PO Box: 15224, 
Doha – Qatar  
E-mail: a.ba...@salaminternational.com| Website: www.salaminternational.com

-Original Message-
From: bind-users  On Behalf Of Mark Tinka
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2022 6:53 PM
To: bind-users@lists.isc.org
Subject: Re: ipv6 adoption



On 2/16/22 17:18, Timothe Litt wrote:

> You can get IPv6 via a tunnel broker.  Hurricane Electric
> (http://he.net/) is one of the larger ones.  You can get a /48 from 
> them - for free.  Bandwidth is modest.  You can setup reverse zones; 
> they'll delegate.  I don't think they support DNSSEC - it's been on 
> their wishlist for years.
>

Ah, I misunderstood the OP's question - I thought he meant if their 
provider does IPv6, but cannot assign an IPv6 address from their PA space.

Yes, if your providers does not yet support IPv6, then a tunnel broker 
like HE (and others) are workable.

Mark.
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Re: ipv6 adoption

2022-02-16 Thread Grant Taylor via bind-users

On 2/16/22 9:24 AM, G.W. Haywood via bind-users wrote:

FWIW I've been using DNSSEC with HE slaves since October 2017.  I'm
happy to report that I've never had any problem with the service.


Please clarify if you are talking about DNSSEC for your own zone that 
they are doing secondary transfers of or if you are talking about DNSSEC 
for the IPv6's reverse DNS namespace that they delegate to you.


Also, +1 for the H.E. IPv6 training.



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Re: ipv6 adoption

2022-02-16 Thread Mark Andrews


> On 16 Feb 2022, at 23:38, Andrew Baker via bind-users 
>  wrote:
> 
> Firstly, thanks for the advice about the hidden master the other day, that’s 
> now setup, working fine and we’ve just finished transferring about 4500 
> records across!
> My software team came up this morning and slapped me across the face with a 
> wet fish (figuratively speaking as It’s not Thursday yet!) by informing me 
> that they are developing a mobile app for one of our companies that Apple 
> have mandated an ipv6 DNS requirement before they publish.

Firstly welcome to the 21st century.

> At the moment, all our infrastructure from ISP device inwards is ipv4 so 
> setting up the zone on our DNS is going to require a lot of significant 
> changes! There are a couple of things reference all this that I’m unsure 
> about and am hoping you can educate me on.
>  
> Firstly, we are running bind 9.11 on Debian 10 hosts. 
>   • Is it worth use upgrading to Debian 11 to get the newer version of 
> bind?

BIND 9.11 supports IPv6 fine.  There is no reason to upgrade if you just want 
to add  records
or to use IPv6 as a transport.  That said BIND 9.11 is reaching EOL so its time 
to upgrade for that reason.

>   • Are there any issues/bugs/holes in 9.11 that will cause us a problem, 
> especially if we start messing with ipv6?

No.  BIND had supported IPv6 as a transport for over 20 years now.

>   • If I do upgrade the on-premise servers, is it better to do master 
> then slaves or the other way around?

Doesn’t matter.

>   • If we have DNSSEC configured, is it going to break anything 
> upgrading? (I have lots of backups of the zones and hosts files)

No.

> Secondly, reference bind config
>   • For the “listen-on-v6” statement, are the only options still ‘none’ 
> or ‘all’?

Those have never been the only choices.  If you didn’t properly populate the 
chroot area and you where
using chroot then you couldn’t enumerate the IPv6 interfaces on Linux as it 
required '/proc/net/if_inet6’
to exist.

>   • Can the “listen-on-v6” only be enabled globally in the 
> ‘named.conf.options’ or is it possible to enable per zone as we are 
> (currently) only going to have 1 zone needing ipv6?

Listening on IPv6 is parameter of the server not the zone.  For the record 
listening on IPv4 is also a
parameter of the server.

>   • Once ipv6 is enabled. Is it advisable to setup a sub-domain for the 
> ipv6 addresses to avoid dual-stacking?

Not really.

> The reverse zones for our ipv4 are handled (badly) by our local telecoms 
> provider. How big an issue is it going to be for ipv6 if the reverse lookups 
> are badly/not implemented?

IPv6 is actually easier as IPv6 address blocks are usually handed out on nibble 
boundaries (/(n*4) e.g. /32, /48,
/60, /64) which corresponds to break points in the ipv6.arpa tree.  Just add 
PTR records for the machines that
exist.  IPv4 address blocks are usually not delegated on byte boundaries so you 
need to have multiple zone or
use CNAMES for /25-/31 sized delegations (See RFC 2317).

> If our ISP can’t give us a public ipv6 address, can we still run our bind to 
> give out ipv6 addresses or not?

Apple want to be able to connect to your servers over IPv6 without using any 
IPv6 at all.  I suspect that they
test from IPv6-only networks.  The first step is to have some of your servers 
on IPv6 with  glue records for
them.

> Finally, can anyone point me towards any good reading on bind configuration 
> and DNS best practice (preferably with idiot proof examples)? I must decide 
> fairly quickly if we roll this zone back to our domain registrar who is setup 
> to handle ipv6 or do we strike out and bring our DNS setup up to date and 
> future proofed!
> 
> Thanks for your time and expertise. 
>  
>  
> Andy Baker
>  
>  
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Re: ipv6 adoption

2022-02-16 Thread G.W. Haywood via bind-users

Hi there,

On Wed, 16 Feb 2022, Mark Tinka wrote:

On 2/16/22 17:18, Timothe Litt wrote:

> You can get IPv6 via a tunnel broker.? Hurricane Electric 
> (http://he.net/) is one of the larger ones.? You can get a /48 from 
> them - for free.? Bandwidth is modest.? You can setup reverse zones; 
> they'll delegate.? I don't think they support DNSSEC - it's been on 
> their wishlist for years.


Ah, I misunderstood the OP's question - I thought he meant if their 
provider does IPv6, but cannot assign an IPv6 address from their PA space.


Yes, if your providers does not yet support IPv6, then a tunnel broker 
like HE (and others) are workable.


FWIW I've been using DNSSEC with HE slaves since October 2017.  I'm
happy to report that I've never had any problem with the service.

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Ged.
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Re: ipv6 adoption

2022-02-16 Thread Mark Tinka



On 2/16/22 17:50, Grant Taylor via bind-users wrote:

Most of the -- what I'll call -- binary distributions of Linux tend to 
have a fairly small range of any given versions of software in the 
repositories provided by the Linux distribution provider.


There is nothing that prevents you from sourcing other versions, 
binary or compile it yourself, from other providers.  But some people 
are unwilling to accept the risk.


Yes, it's all coming back to now from my SuSE/OpenSUSE days.

It's one of the reasons we like FreeBSD. The base OS is just a(n empty) 
shell, really. The Ports is where all the magic is, and they generally 
are OS-version independent, as well as having the current, past and 
bleeding edge versions.


Here's an example for those who aren't familiar with FreeBSD:

[root@ns-01-jnb /home/tinka]# ls /usr/ports/dns/bind
bind-tools/  bind9-devel/ bind911/ bind912/ bind913/ 
bind916/ bind918/ bindgraph/

[root@ns-01-jnb /home/tinka]#

Mark.
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Re: ipv6 adoption

2022-02-16 Thread Borja Marcos


> On 16 Feb 2022, at 16:50, Grant Taylor via bind-users 
>  wrote:
> 
> On 2/16/22 7:35 AM, Mark Tinka wrote:
>> I was assuming Linux has something similar, where in userland, you have the 
>> option to install which train of BIND you want, regardless of OS version.
> 
> Most of the -- what I'll call -- binary distributions of Linux tend to have a 
> fairly small range of any given versions of software in the repositories 
> provided by the Linux distribution provider.
> 
> There is nothing that prevents you from sourcing other versions, binary or 
> compile it yourself, from other providers.  But some people are unwilling to 
> accept the risk.

Well, (shameless plug) that’s the great thing about FreeBSD Ports. Moreover, 
many packages have important compile time options. What did the 
packager decide to omit for whatever reasons?

For software in which knowing what you are running is critical (such as bind) 
it’s a no brainer.




Borja.

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Re: ipv6 adoption

2022-02-16 Thread Mark Tinka



On 2/16/22 17:18, Timothe Litt wrote:

You can get IPv6 via a tunnel broker.  Hurricane Electric 
(http://he.net/) is one of the larger ones.  You can get a /48 from 
them - for free.  Bandwidth is modest.  You can setup reverse zones; 
they'll delegate.  I don't think they support DNSSEC - it's been on 
their wishlist for years.




Ah, I misunderstood the OP's question - I thought he meant if their 
provider does IPv6, but cannot assign an IPv6 address from their PA space.


Yes, if your providers does not yet support IPv6, then a tunnel broker 
like HE (and others) are workable.


Mark.
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Re: ipv6 adoption

2022-02-16 Thread Grant Taylor via bind-users

On 2/16/22 7:35 AM, Mark Tinka wrote:
I was assuming Linux has something similar, where in userland, you have 
the option to install which train of BIND you want, regardless of OS 
version.


Most of the -- what I'll call -- binary distributions of Linux tend to 
have a fairly small range of any given versions of software in the 
repositories provided by the Linux distribution provider.


There is nothing that prevents you from sourcing other versions, binary 
or compile it yourself, from other providers.  But some people are 
unwilling to accept the risk.


But thinking about the days when I ran SuSE Linux and OpenSUSE (up until 
2007), I think I recall apps being tied to major/minor OS versions, when 
they used RPM as the package manager. It's been a while, so things may 
have since changed.


I'm used to seeing ~current, down level, and maybe bleeding level in the 
beta / early adopters distro releases.




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RE: ipv6 adoption

2022-02-16 Thread Mike Lewinski via bind-users
> HE has a lot of IPv6 educational materials (not bind-specific) that are quite 
> good.

I wasn't aware, but this looks worthy and I'm going to do it:

https://ipv6.he.net/certification/

Also to the OP here's another +1 that Debian 10 bind version does IPv6 just 
fine, and +1 upgrade it anyway before it reaches EOL.
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Re: ipv6 adoption

2022-02-16 Thread Timothe Litt


On 16-Feb-22 07:38, Andrew Baker wrote:


Firstly, thanks for the advice about the hidden master the other day, 
that’s now setup, working fine and we’ve just finished transferring 
about 4500 records across!


My software team came up this morning and slapped me across the face 
with a wet fish (figuratively speaking as It’s not Thursday yet!) by 
informing me that they are developing a mobile app for one of our 
companies that Apple have mandated an ipv6 DNS requirement before they 
publish.


At the moment, all our infrastructure from ISP device inwards is ipv4 
so setting up the zone on our DNS is going to require a lot of 
significant changes! There are a couple of things reference all this 
that I’m unsure about and am hoping you can educate me on.


Firstly, we are running bind 9.11 on Debian 10 hosts.

  * Is it worth use upgrading to Debian 11 to get the newer version of
bind?
  * Are there any issues/bugs/holes in 9.11 that will cause us a
problem, especially if we start messing with ipv6?
  * If I do upgrade the on-premise servers, is it better to do master
then slaves or the other way around?
  * If we have DNSSEC configured, is it going to break anything
upgrading? (I have lots of backups of the zones and hosts files)

Secondly, reference bind config

  * For the “listen-on-v6” statement, are the only options still
‘none’ or ‘all’?
  * Can the “listen-on-v6” only be enabled globally in the
‘named.conf.options’ or is it possible to enable per zone as we
are (currently) only going to have 1 zone needing ipv6?
  * Once ipv6 is enabled. Is it advisable to setup a sub-domain for
the ipv6 addresses to avoid dual-stacking?

The reverse zones for our ipv4 are handled (badly) by our local 
telecoms provider. How big an issue is it going to be for ipv6 if the 
reverse lookups are badly/not implemented?


If our ISP can’t give us a public ipv6 address, can we still run our 
bind to give out ipv6 addresses or not?


Finally, can anyone point me towards any good reading on bind 
configuration and DNS best practice (preferably with idiot proof 
examples)? I must decide fairly quickly if we roll this zone back to 
our domain registrar who is setup to handle ipv6 or do we strike out 
and bring our DNS setup up to date and future proofed!


Thanks for your time and expertise.

Andy Baker

**

You can get IPv6 via a tunnel broker.  Hurricane Electric 
(http://he.net/) is one of the larger ones.  You can get a /48 from them 
- for free.  Bandwidth is modest.  You can setup reverse zones; they'll 
delegate.  I don't think they support DNSSEC - it's been on their 
wishlist for years.


I use 9.11 (and have used previous) versions of bind with IPv6 - no IPv6 
issues.


Zones have nothing to do with dual stack.  If you create an  record, 
your host can be found via IPv6.  If you create an A record, IPv4.  Both 
gives you "dual stack".  I tend to create x.v[46].example.net style 
names in addition to x.example.net for cases where I want one or the 
other.  This doesn't require a zone - it's just a name.


One reason to not configure your host with both A and  records may 
be that most resolvers will prefer V6, but if you have a tunnel for V6 & 
a wide pipe to your ISP, you may find that you're connecting thru the 
tunnel & limited by its bandwidth.


There is no requirement for named to listen on IPv6 for it to serve  
records.  That's orthogonal, and dependent on what the resolver(s) can 
live with.


HE has a lot of IPv6 educational materials (not bind-specific) that are 
quite good.


Depending on where you are in the world, there are other brokers.  I 
switched to HE when SiXXS went out of business and have been happy.  I 
have no other connection to HE.  YMMV.


DNSSEC doesn't care what transport protocol is used or what records are 
served.  It just signs them.  Moving, you do need to make sure that the 
keys and delegations are present on the receiving end.  Once the move is 
complete, it may be a good time to do a key roll.


Finally, it's not clear from your note how you're setup, but if you run 
your own servers, you need to meet the geographic dispersion rules.  At 
least 2 servers in two places.  That's true no matter what protocols you 
use.  There are backup DNS services that support IPv6.  A free one that 
supports both IPv6 and DNSSEC is puck.nether.net/dns.


There are plenty of DNS books/guides.  I'll let someone else do the reviews.

Timothe Litt
ACM Distinguished Engineer
--
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if any, on the matters discussed.



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Re: ipv6 adoption

2022-02-16 Thread Ondřej Surý

> On 16. 2. 2022, at 14:50, Reindl Harald  wrote:
> 
> not when you don't use 3rd party repos or build it at your own - the whole 
> point of a stable distibution is to not have random major-upgrades of software

Technically, using ISC repositories would be 0-party as it’s upstream provider 
of the software.

> and unless you have no very good reason you should either stay at the 
> packages from your distribution or make a dist-upgrade

Everything has its pros and its cons. Using the conservative distributions also 
often means being stuck in past.

> otherwise you end in the chaos MacOS and Windows are when it comes to keep 
> everything up-to-date and get security bugs fixed - linux distributions are 
> backporting security fixes

Debian bullseye follows patch releases of 9.16 and not just backporting 
security fixes.

Nevertheless, Debian buster is almost EOL (June 2022), so you should upgrade to 
bullseye in any case.

Ondřej
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Re: ipv6 adoption

2022-02-16 Thread Mark Tinka




On 2/16/22 15:49, Reindl Harald wrote:



not when you don't use 3rd party repos or build it at your own - the 
whole point of a stable distibution is to not have random 
major-upgrades of software


and unless you have no very good reason you should either stay at the 
packages from your distribution or make a dist-upgrade


otherwise you end in the chaos MacOS and Windows are when it comes to 
keep everything up-to-date and get security bugs fixed - linux 
distributions are backporting security fixes


We use FreeBSD for services, and regardless of major/minor OS version, 
the FreeBSD ports (and packages) will always support the various trains 
of the app. It's just a case of what you want to install.


I was assuming Linux has something similar, where in userland, you have 
the option to install which train of BIND you want, regardless of OS 
version.


But thinking about the days when I ran SuSE Linux and OpenSUSE (up until 
2007), I think I recall apps being tied to major/minor OS versions, when 
they used RPM as the package manager. It's been a while, so things may 
have since changed.


Mark.
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Re: ipv6 adoption

2022-02-16 Thread Reindl Harald




Am 16.02.22 um 14:25 schrieb Mark Tinka:

On 2/16/22 14:38, Andrew Baker via bind-users wrote:


Firstly, we are running bind 9.11 on Debian 10 hosts.

  * Is it worth use upgrading to Debian 11 to get the newer version of
bind?



I don't run Linux, but shouldn't it be possible to just upgrade only 
BIND on your current Linux release, without having to change major OS 
versions?


not when you don't use 3rd party repos or build it at your own - the 
whole point of a stable distibution is to not have random major-upgrades 
of software


and unless you have no very good reason you should either stay at the 
packages from your distribution or make a dist-upgrade


otherwise you end in the chaos MacOS and Windows are when it comes to 
keep everything up-to-date and get security bugs fixed - linux 
distributions are backporting security fixes

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Re: ipv6 adoption

2022-02-16 Thread Mark Tinka



On 2/16/22 14:38, Andrew Baker via bind-users wrote:


Firstly, we are running bind 9.11 on Debian 10 hosts.

  * Is it worth use upgrading to Debian 11 to get the newer version of
bind?



I don't run Linux, but shouldn't it be possible to just upgrade only 
BIND on your current Linux release, without having to change major OS 
versions?




 *



  * Are there any issues/bugs/holes in 9.11 that will cause us a
problem, especially if we start messing with ipv6?



None that I can tell.

We are running bind911-9.11.36 happily as a resolver. Given 
authoritative name servers would be less busy, I imagine you'll be fine 
from that standpoint.




 *



  * If I do upgrade the on-premise servers, is it better to do master
then slaves or the other way around?



I've done both ways, because I've found it doesn't matter, especially if 
you have more than one master.




  * If we have DNSSEC configured, is it going to break anything
upgrading? (I have lots of backups of the zones and hosts files)



Take your time understanding DNSSEC, and how to set it up. I'd do this 
long after adding IPv6 support, as that is what is most urgent, if I 
hear you right.




Secondly, reference bind config

  * For the “listen-on-v6” statement, are the only options still
‘none’ or ‘all’?



On all our name servers, we have this:

    listen-on-v6    { any; };

Works great.



 *



  * Can the “listen-on-v6” only be enabled globally in the
‘named.conf.options’ or is it possible to enable per zone as we
are (currently) only going to have 1 zone needing ipv6?



Good question - I don't know.

But I'd suspect it's a global setting, because the protocol BIND listens 
on has nothing to do with what it answers, i.e., you can carry an IPv6 
response over IPv4.




  * Once ipv6 is enabled. Is it advisable to setup a sub-domain for
the ipv6 addresses to avoid dual-stacking?



You could if you want to, but there is no relationship between the 
A/ records in the zone, and how the server's TCP/IP stack is configured.


We just have all IPv4 and IPv6 records in the same zone, with the server 
dual-stacked.




 *



The reverse zones for our ipv4 are handled (badly) by our local 
telecoms provider. How big an issue is it going to be for ipv6 if the 
reverse lookups are badly/not implemented?




You can choose to handle your own PTR, assuming the IPv6 space is yours. 
Unless I misunderstand...



If our ISP can’t give us a public ipv6 address, can we still run our 
bind to give out ipv6 addresses or not?




Yes - you can answer to IPv6 DNS queries, and provide that answer over 
IPv4, i.e., you can answer an  query over IPv4. The answer and the 
transport don't have to be congruent.



Finally, can anyone point me towards any good reading on bind 
configuration and DNS best practice (preferably with idiot proof 
examples)? I must decide fairly quickly if we roll this zone back to 
our domain registrar who is setup to handle ipv6 or do we strike out 
and bring our DNS setup up to date and future proofed!




https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/dns-and-bind/9781449308025/

Mark.-- 
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