Re: [bitcoin-dev] OP_VAULT: a new vault proposal

2023-01-10 Thread Anthony Towns via bitcoin-dev
On Tue, Jan 10, 2023 at 03:22:54PM -0500, James O'Beirne wrote: > > I don't think that makes sense? With a general scheme, you'd only be > > bloating the witness data (perhaps including the witness script) not > > the scriptPubKey? > Sorry, sloppy language on my part. To be charitable, I'm talking

Re: [bitcoin-dev] OP_VAULT: a new vault proposal

2023-01-10 Thread James O'Beirne via bitcoin-dev
Thanks for the thoughtful reply AJ. > I don't think that makes sense? With a general scheme, you'd only be > bloating the witness data (perhaps including the witness script) not > the scriptPubKey? Sorry, sloppy language on my part. To be charitable, I'm talking about the "figurative sPK," which

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Why Full-RBF Makes DoS Attacks on Multiparty Protocols Significantly More Expensive

2023-01-10 Thread David A. Harding via bitcoin-dev
On 2023-01-10 00:06, Peter Todd wrote: Remember, we'd like decentralized coinjoin implementations like Joinmarket to work. How does a decentralized coinjoin implement "conflict monitoring"? 1. Run a relay node with a conflict-detection patch. Stock Bitcoin Core with -debug=mempoolrej will

Re: [bitcoin-dev] OP_VAULT: a new vault proposal

2023-01-10 Thread James O'Beirne via bitcoin-dev
Forwarding in some conceptual feedback from the pull request. >From ariard: > I've few open questions, like if the recovery path should be committed with a signature rather than protected by a simple scriptpubkey preimage. That's something I've wondered about too. I have to ruminate on AJ's good

Re: [bitcoin-dev] OP_VAULT: a new vault proposal

2023-01-10 Thread James O'Beirne via bitcoin-dev
Greg explained his suggestion to me off-list, and I think it's a good one. To summarize, consider the normal "output flow" of an expected vault use: (i) output to be vaulted => (ii) OP_VAULT output => (iii) OP_UNVAULT "trigger" output => (iv) final output In my existing draft implemen

Re: [bitcoin-dev] OP_VAULT: a new vault proposal

2023-01-10 Thread Anthony Towns via bitcoin-dev
On Mon, Jan 09, 2023 at 11:07:54AM -0500, James O'Beirne via bitcoin-dev wrote: > But I also found proposed "general" covenant schemes to be > unsuitable for this use. The bloated scriptPubKeys, I don't think that makes sense? With a general scheme, you'd only be bloating the witness data (perhaps

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Why Full-RBF Makes DoS Attacks on Multiparty Protocols Significantly More Expensive

2023-01-10 Thread David A. Harding via bitcoin-dev
On 2023-01-09 22:47, Peter Todd wrote: How do you propose that the participants learn about the double-spend? Without knowing that it happened, they can't respond as you suggested. I can think of various ways---many of them probably the same ideas that would occur to you. More concise than li

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Why Full-RBF Makes DoS Attacks on Multiparty Protocols Significantly More Expensive

2023-01-10 Thread Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev
On Tue, Jan 10, 2023 at 12:02:35AM -1000, David A. Harding wrote: > On 2023-01-09 22:47, Peter Todd wrote: > > How do you propose that the participants learn about the double-spend? > > Without > > knowing that it happened, they can't respond as you suggested. > > I can think of various ways---man

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Why Full-RBF Makes DoS Attacks on Multiparty Protocols Significantly More Expensive

2023-01-10 Thread Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev
On Tue, Jan 10, 2023 at 09:19:39AM +, alicexbt wrote: > Hi Peter, > > > ## How Full-RBF Mitigates the Double-Spend DoS Attack > > > > Modulo tx-pinning, full-rbf mitigates the double-spend DoS attack in a very > > straightforward way: the low fee transaction is replaced by the higher fee > >

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Why Full-RBF Makes DoS Attacks on Multiparty Protocols Significantly More Expensive

2023-01-10 Thread Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev
On Mon, Jan 09, 2023 at 09:11:46PM -1000, David A. Harding wrote: > On 2023-01-09 12:18, Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev wrote: > > [The quote:] > > > > "Does fullrbf offer any benefits other than breaking zeroconf > > business > > practices?" > > > > ...has caused a lot of confusion by imply