Re: [bitcoin-dev] Reorgs on SigNet - Looking for feedback on approach and parameters

2021-10-14 Thread Anthony Towns via bitcoin-dev
On Wed, Sep 15, 2021 at 08:24:43AM -0700, Matt Corallo via bitcoin-dev wrote: > > On Sep 13, 2021, at 21:56, Anthony Towns wrote: > > I'm not sure that's really the question you want answered? > Of course it is? I’d like to understand the initial thinking and design > analysis that went into

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Reorgs on SigNet - Looking for feedback on approach and parameters

2021-09-15 Thread Matt Corallo via bitcoin-dev
> On Sep 13, 2021, at 21:56, Anthony Towns wrote: > I'm not sure that's really the question you want answered? Of course it is? I’d like to understand the initial thinking and design analysis that went into this decision. That seems like an important question to ask when seeking changes in

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Reorgs on SigNet - Looking for feedback on approach and parameters

2021-09-13 Thread Anthony Towns via bitcoin-dev
On Sun, Sep 12, 2021 at 10:33:24PM -0700, Matt Corallo via bitcoin-dev wrote: > > On Sep 12, 2021, at 00:53, Anthony Towns wrote: > >> Why bother with a version bit? This seems substantially more complicated > >> than the original proposal that surfaced many times before signet launched > >> to

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Reorgs on SigNet - Looking for feedback on approach and parameters

2021-09-13 Thread Matt Corallo via bitcoin-dev
> On Sep 13, 2021, at 05:30, Michael Folkson wrote: > >  >> >> Can you explain the motivation for this? From where I sit, as far as I know, >> I should basically be > a prime example of the target market for public >> signet - someone developing bitcoin applications > with regular

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Reorgs on SigNet - Looking for feedback on approach and parameters

2021-09-13 Thread Michael Folkson via bitcoin-dev
> Can you explain the motivation for this? From where I sit, as far as I know, > I should basically be > a prime example of the target market for public > signet - someone developing bitcoin applications > with regular requirements > to test those applications with other developers without >

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Reorgs on SigNet - Looking for feedback on approach and parameters

2021-09-12 Thread Matt Corallo via bitcoin-dev
> On Sep 12, 2021, at 00:53, Anthony Towns wrote: > > On Thu, Sep 09, 2021 at 05:50:08PM -0700, Matt Corallo via bitcoin-dev wrote: >>> AJ proposed to allow SigNet users to opt-out of reorgs in case they >>> explicitly want to remain unaffected. This can be done by setting a >>> to-be-reorged

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Reorgs on SigNet - Looking for feedback on approach and parameters

2021-09-12 Thread Greg Sanders via bitcoin-dev
> Sometimes that reorg could be deeper if you would be lucky enough to get a block with more work than N following blocks combined Each block is credited for its contribution to total chainwork by the difficulty target, not the hash of the block itself. On Sun, Sep 12, 2021 at 10:42 PM vjudeu

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Reorgs on SigNet - Looking for feedback on approach and parameters

2021-09-12 Thread vjudeu via bitcoin-dev
> - 1 block reorgs: these are a regular feature on mainnet, everyone should cope with them; having them happen multiple times a day to make testing easier should be great Anyone can do 1 block reorg, because nonce is not signed, so anyone can replace that with better value. For example, if

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Reorgs on SigNet - Looking for feedback on approach and parameters

2021-09-12 Thread Anthony Towns via bitcoin-dev
On Thu, Sep 09, 2021 at 05:50:08PM -0700, Matt Corallo via bitcoin-dev wrote: > > AJ proposed to allow SigNet users to opt-out of reorgs in case they > > explicitly want to remain unaffected. This can be done by setting a > > to-be-reorged version bit [...] > Why bother with a version bit? This

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Reorgs on SigNet - Looking for feedback on approach and parameters

2021-09-10 Thread Michael Folkson via bitcoin-dev
> Huh? Why would the goal be to match mainnet? The goal, as I understand it, is > to allow software to use SigNet without modification *to make testing simpler* - keep the header format the same to let SPV clients function without (significant) modification, etc. The point of the whole thing is

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Reorgs on SigNet - Looking for feedback on approach and parameters

2021-09-10 Thread David A. Harding via bitcoin-dev
On Fri, Sep 10, 2021 at 11:24:15AM -0700, Matt Corallo via bitcoin-dev wrote: > I'm [...] suggesting [...] that the existing block producers each > generate a new key, and we then only sign reorgs with *those* keys. > Users will be able to set a flag to indicate "I want to accept sigs > from

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Reorgs on SigNet - Looking for feedback on approach and parameters

2021-09-10 Thread Matt Corallo via bitcoin-dev
Fwiw, your email client is broken and does not properly quote in the plaintext copy. I believe this is a known gmail bug, but I'd recommend avoiding gmail's web interface for list posting :). On 9/10/21 12:00, Michael Folkson wrote: Huh? Why would the goal be to match mainnet? The goal, as I

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Reorgs on SigNet - Looking for feedback on approach and parameters

2021-09-10 Thread Matt Corallo via bitcoin-dev
On 9/10/21 06:05, Michael Folkson wrote: I see zero reason whatsoever to not simply reorg ~every block, or as often as is practical. If users opt in to wanting to test with reorgs, they should be able to test with reorgs, not wait a day to test with reorgs. One of the goals of the default

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Reorgs on SigNet - Looking for feedback on approach and parameters

2021-09-10 Thread Michael Folkson via bitcoin-dev
> I see zero reason whatsoever to not simply reorg ~every block, or as often as > is practical. If users opt in to wanting to test with reorgs, they should be > able to test with reorgs, not wait a day to test with reorgs. One of the goals of the default Signet was to make the default Signet

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Reorgs on SigNet - Looking for feedback on approach and parameters

2021-09-09 Thread Matt Corallo via bitcoin-dev
On 9/7/21 09:07, 0xB10C via bitcoin-dev wrote: Hello, tl;dr: We want to make reorgs on SigNet a reality and are looking for feedback on approach and parameters. Awesome! AJ proposed to allow SigNet users to opt-out of reorgs in case they explicitly want to remain unaffected. This can be

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Reorgs on SigNet - Looking for feedback on approach and parameters

2021-09-08 Thread Anthony Towns via bitcoin-dev
On Tue, Sep 07, 2021 at 06:07:47PM +0200, 0xB10C via bitcoin-dev wrote: > The reorg-interval X very much depends on the user's needs. One could > argue that there should be, for example, three reorgs per day, each 48 > blocks apart. Oh, wow, I think the last suggestion was every 100 blocks (every

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Reorgs on SigNet - Looking for feedback on approach and parameters

2021-09-07 Thread Jeremy via bitcoin-dev
If you make the to be reorged flag 2 bits, 1 bit can mark final block and the other can mark to be reorged. That way the nodes opting into reorg can see the reorg and ignore the final blocks (until a certain time? Or until it's via a reorg?), and the nodes wanting not to see reorgs get continuous

[bitcoin-dev] Reorgs on SigNet - Looking for feedback on approach and parameters

2021-09-07 Thread 0xB10C via bitcoin-dev
Hello, tl;dr: We want to make reorgs on SigNet a reality and are looking for feedback on approach and parameters. One of the ideas for SigNet is the possibility for it to be reliably unreliable, for example, planned chain reorganizations. These have not been implemented yet. My