Re: [bitcoin-dev] Smart Contracts Unchained

2019-04-18 Thread Nadav Kohen via bitcoin-dev
Hi all! I've been thinking a lot about how to add the benefits that lightning provides in terms of privacy and speed to the smart contracts unchained setup. The high-level idea is to utilize the fact that a lightning channel already has on-chain funds locked up, and if parties cooperate, some of t

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Smart Contracts Unchained

2019-04-18 Thread ZmnSCPxj via bitcoin-dev
Good morning Nadav, Yes, transporting contracts over a single direct channel is always possible. When Lightning switches to Decker-Russell-Osuntokun ("eltoo"), do note that contracts with an absolute timelock must be forced onchain earlier than the absolute timelock by the CSV requirement of th

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Smart Contracts Unchained

2019-04-08 Thread Aymeric Vitte via bitcoin-dev
Hi, I took the example of colored coins because you quoted ethereum and like most of ethereum tokens most of them reflect something coming from nowhere, worse I can send you 10K Tethers if you like that of course will not be validated by the central system but will be recorded in bitcoin blockchai

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Smart Contracts Unchained

2019-04-08 Thread ZmnSCPxj via bitcoin-dev
Good morning Aymeric, > Hi, > > Apparently you are not a fan of ethereum, as far as I can tell ethereum > sidechains look like a mess with stupid tokens/transactions flooding the > network while they are completely centralized, but some bitcoin > sidechains can easily compete with this too, like T

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Smart Contracts Unchained

2019-04-07 Thread Aymeric Vitte via bitcoin-dev
Hi, Apparently you are not a fan of ethereum, as far as I can tell ethereum sidechains look like a mess with stupid tokens/transactions flooding the network while they are completely centralized, but some bitcoin sidechains can easily compete with this too, like Tether, don't even understand

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Smart Contracts Unchained

2019-04-05 Thread ZmnSCPxj via bitcoin-dev
Building from this --- It is possible via this mechanism for the federation to be selected by the participants, rather than the federation being defined as a fixed set by the smart contract platform. Perhaps anyone can advertise themselves (by e.g. locking some bonded amount on the blockchain

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Smart Contracts Unchained

2019-04-04 Thread ZmnSCPxj via bitcoin-dev
Good morning Aymeric, > What if the smart contract platform(s) disappear? > It is still possible to recover the funds, *if* you can convince all participants of some "fair" distribution of the funds. You do this by all participants simply signing with their participant keys and taking the firs

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Smart Contracts Unchained

2019-04-04 Thread Aymeric Vitte via bitcoin-dev
What if the smart contract platform(s) disappear? The proposal induces a very centralized system, to my knowledge all of existing sidechains whether on bitcoin or ethereum are centralized, except lightning (if we forget that someone must watch what others are doing when you are on a trek in Ne

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Smart Contracts Unchained

2019-04-04 Thread ZmnSCPxj via bitcoin-dev
Somebody pointed out this to me: https://gavintech.blogspot.com/2014/06/bit-thereum.html I have updated the page accordingly. One thing that seems not mentioned in bit-thereum is the "as long as everybody agrees" escape hatch, i.e. one branch which allows spending to anything (including a tran

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Smart Contracts Unchained

2019-04-04 Thread ZmnSCPxj via bitcoin-dev
Good morning Ariel, > However, consider the situation where a group of participants are playing > poker. One participant loses all their funds and decides to present to the > escrow the contract+an old contract state+a signed message following the > contract rules (eg. an independently signed c

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Smart Contracts Unchained

2019-04-03 Thread Ariel Lorenzo-Luaces via bitcoin-dev
Hello ZmnSCPxj I like the proposal because it generalizes escrow type mechanisms and I think it's a useful train of thought for distributed exchanges. However, consider the situation where a group of participants are playing poker. One participant loses all their funds and decides to present to

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Smart Contracts Unchained

2019-04-03 Thread Tamas Blummer via bitcoin-dev
Hi ZmnSCPxj, Thought provoking, thank you! Something I dislike in the scheme, that one could not tell which party colluded with the escrow agent. Tamas Blummer > On Apr 4, 2019, at 03:55, ZmnSCPxj via bitcoin-dev > wrote: > > https://zmnscpxj.github.io/bitcoin/unchained.html > > Smart cont

[bitcoin-dev] Smart Contracts Unchained

2019-04-03 Thread ZmnSCPxj via bitcoin-dev
https://zmnscpxj.github.io/bitcoin/unchained.html Smart contracts have traditionally been implemented as part of the consensus rules of some blokchain. Often this means creating a new blockchain, or at least a sidechain to an existing blockchain. This writeup proposes an alternative method wi