Re: [Bitcoin-development] Paper Currency

[Gregory Maxwell]

On Sat, May 17, 2014 at 9:07 AM, Chris Pacia  wrote:
> I can't really just hand someone the note and walk away
> because they have to scan it to see if it is actually valid.

Not just scan it, but they actually must successfully sweep it—
otherwise they can be trivially double spent. This is especially bad
since any prior bearer can perform such an attack. E.g. record the
private key of everyone that passes through your hands and then
doublespend race any redemption that happens >24 hours after you spend
them. The wrong person would likely be blamed and even if you were
blamed you could plausibly deny it ("Must have been the guy that gave
it to me!").

Othercoin seems to have much better properties in the space of offline
transactions: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=319146.0

Separately, Cassius also ran into some regulatory issues selling
physical bitcoin artifacts. Especially printing things that seem to be
redeemable for a named USD value sounds especially problematic.

Some random comments— The base58 encoding is fairly human unfriendly.
It's fine for something being copy and pasted, but I've found typing
or reading it works poorly due to mixed case.  I expect the A/B side
to be difficult to educate users about. "This side is private" is more
easily understood, you could just pick one of your sides and call it
private.  I find it kind of odd that this design seems to have no
facility for checking its txouts without recovering the private key,
though considering no one should rely on such a measurement without
sweeping perhaps thats for the best.

(As far as the numbering goes, I think you should be calling these
draft-felix-paper-currency  etc. As a matter of hygienic practice I
will not assign a matching bip number for something that went public
with a number outside of the assignment.)

--
"Accelerate Dev Cycles with Automated Cross-Browser Testing - For FREE
Instantly run your Selenium tests across 300+ browser/OS combos.
Get unparalleled scalability from the best Selenium testing platform available
Simple to use. Nothing to install. Get started now for free."
http://p.sf.net/sfu/SauceLabs
___
Bitcoin-development mailing list
Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Paper Currency

[Chris Pacia]

Since these notes have to be redeemed immediately the number of use
cases seems limited. I can't really just hand someone the note and walk
away because they have to scan it to see if it is actually valid.
Otherwise someone could just pass fake notes if they felt the recipient
wouldn't redeem them on the spot. This doesn't seem like an improvement
over just sending the coins via phone.

The use case with poor internet connection wouldn't work as well since,
presumably, the recipient would also have poor reception and couldn't
verify the note was actually loaded with bitcoins.

Also, I REALLY don't like the name bit reserve.

-Chris

On 05/17/2014 11:31 AM, Jerry Felix wrote:
> It seems to me that there's a huge need for a paper currency that is
> counterfeit-resistant, inexpensive to print, internationally
> recognized (border-less), fits in a wallet, and machine readable.
>
> I pitched this idea at the Cincinnati Bitcoin meetup last week, and I
> didn't get thrown out, so I took the time to document a proposed
> standard to accomplish this.  I've put my ideas into BIP format, so
> that you can see what I have in mind, although I picked some
> BIP numbers myself that seem to be available.  Call them "proposed
> proposals", or "provisional BIPs".  I've numbered them provisionally
> BIP-80 to BIP-84.
>
> If you guys think that this idea has some merit, let's discuss.
>
> https://github.com/jerfelix/provisional_bips/blob/master/README.mediawiki
>
> Submitted with humility and some fear of getting laughed out of here...
> - Jerry
>
>
>
>
> --
> "Accelerate Dev Cycles with Automated Cross-Browser Testing - For FREE
> Instantly run your Selenium tests across 300+ browser/OS combos.
> Get unparalleled scalability from the best Selenium testing platform available
> Simple to use. Nothing to install. Get started now for free."
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/SauceLabs
>
>
> ___
> Bitcoin-development mailing list
> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development

--
"Accelerate Dev Cycles with Automated Cross-Browser Testing - For FREE
Instantly run your Selenium tests across 300+ browser/OS combos.
Get unparalleled scalability from the best Selenium testing platform available
Simple to use. Nothing to install. Get started now for free."
http://p.sf.net/sfu/SauceLabs___
Bitcoin-development mailing list
Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Paper Currency

[Matt Whitlock]

On Saturday, 17 May 2014, at 11:31 am, Jerry Felix wrote:
> I picked some BIP numbers myself that seem to be available.

I'm quite certain you're explicitly *NOT* supposed to do this.

--
"Accelerate Dev Cycles with Automated Cross-Browser Testing - For FREE
Instantly run your Selenium tests across 300+ browser/OS combos.
Get unparalleled scalability from the best Selenium testing platform available
Simple to use. Nothing to install. Get started now for free."
http://p.sf.net/sfu/SauceLabs
___
Bitcoin-development mailing list
Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development

[Bitcoin-development] Paper Currency

[Jerry Felix]

It seems to me that there's a huge need for a paper currency that is 
counterfeit-resistant, inexpensive to print, internationally recognized 
(border-less), fits in a wallet, and machine readable.

I pitched this idea at the Cincinnati Bitcoin meetup last week, and I didn't 
get thrown out, so I took the time to document a proposed standard to 
accomplish this.  I've put my ideas into BIP format, so that you can see what I 
have in mind, although I picked some 
BIP numbers myself that seem to be available.  Call them "proposed proposals", 
or "provisional BIPs".  I've numbered them provisionally BIP-80 to BIP-84.

If you guys think that this idea has some merit, let's discuss.

https://github.com/jerfelix/provisional_bips/blob/master/README.mediawiki

Submitted with humility and some fear of getting laughed out of here...
- Jerry


  --
"Accelerate Dev Cycles with Automated Cross-Browser Testing - For FREE
Instantly run your Selenium tests across 300+ browser/OS combos.
Get unparalleled scalability from the best Selenium testing platform available
Simple to use. Nothing to install. Get started now for free."
http://p.sf.net/sfu/SauceLabs___
Bitcoin-development mailing list
Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development

Re: [Bitcoin-development] DNS seeds unstable

[Andreas Schildbach]

On 05/17/2014 02:02 PM, Alex Kotenko wrote:

> So, my understanding is that atm we have no working DNS seeds at the
> testnet3, right? There are two DNS seeds known, of which one is
> unreachable atm, and another one is giving just one IP address, which is
> also a dead node. 

Yes, that's my understanding too.

> If I'll start a DNS seed of my own and make sure it works well, will
> this help? 

Yes, definately.

> I've found this DNS seeder daemon
> , and it seems to be exactly
> what I need to run a DNS seeder myself. 

Afaik this is what most of the other seeds are using, yes.

> So if my understanding is correct, I'll setup a DNS seeds for mainnet
> and for testnet at bitcoin-seed.alexykot.me
>  and testnet-seed.alexykot.me
> , and also a well connected nodes for
> mainnet and testnet on the same server. 
> Is this a good plan? Will this all help?

Sound great! Let me know if you've got something to test.



--
"Accelerate Dev Cycles with Automated Cross-Browser Testing - For FREE
Instantly run your Selenium tests across 300+ browser/OS combos.
Get unparalleled scalability from the best Selenium testing platform available
Simple to use. Nothing to install. Get started now for free."
http://p.sf.net/sfu/SauceLabs
___
Bitcoin-development mailing list
Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development

Re: [Bitcoin-development] DNS seeds unstable

[Alex Kotenko]

Agree.

So, my understanding is that atm we have no working DNS seeds at the
testnet3, right? There are two DNS seeds known, of which one is unreachable
atm, and another one is giving just one IP address, which is also a dead
node.

If I'll start a DNS seed of my own and make sure it works well, will this
help?
I've found this DNS seeder daemon ,
and it seems to be exactly what I need to run a DNS seeder myself.
So if my understanding is correct, I'll setup a DNS seeds for mainnet and
for testnet at bitcoin-seed.alexykot.me and testnet-seed.alexykot.me, and
also a well connected nodes for mainnet and testnet on the same server.
Is this a good plan? Will this all help?


Best regards,
Alex Kotenko


2014-05-17 12:39 GMT+01:00 Andreas Schildbach :

> I think the best way to contribute to the infrastructure is actually
> what we're doing: Test the current infrastructure and point out where it
> is not working. Trying to find solutions for problems.
>
> There is nothing gained by throwing additional hardware at a problem if
> the problem itself isn't understood well.
>
>
> On 05/17/2014 02:58 AM, Alex Kotenko wrote:
> > Ok, what do I need to do? How do I host a testnet seed myself?
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Alex Kotenko
> >
> >
> > 2014-05-16 23:02 GMT+01:00 Jeff Garzik  > >:
> >
> > There are only two testnet seeds listed in bitcoind, and one of them
> > returns SERVFAIL (testnet-seed.bitcoin.petertodd.org
> > ) and the other
> > just returns one A record (testnet-seed.bluematt.me
> > ).  No idea what
> > seeds bitcoinj uses.
> >
> > If you are going to depend on testnet, especially for an important
> > demo... contribute to the infrastructure!  This stuff doesn't just
> fix
> > itself for free.
>
>
>
>
> --
> "Accelerate Dev Cycles with Automated Cross-Browser Testing - For FREE
> Instantly run your Selenium tests across 300+ browser/OS combos.
> Get unparalleled scalability from the best Selenium testing platform
> available
> Simple to use. Nothing to install. Get started now for free."
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/SauceLabs
> ___
> Bitcoin-development mailing list
> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>
--
"Accelerate Dev Cycles with Automated Cross-Browser Testing - For FREE
Instantly run your Selenium tests across 300+ browser/OS combos.
Get unparalleled scalability from the best Selenium testing platform available
Simple to use. Nothing to install. Get started now for free."
http://p.sf.net/sfu/SauceLabs___
Bitcoin-development mailing list
Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development

Re: [Bitcoin-development] DNS seeds unstable

[Andreas Schildbach]

I think the best way to contribute to the infrastructure is actually
what we're doing: Test the current infrastructure and point out where it
is not working. Trying to find solutions for problems.

There is nothing gained by throwing additional hardware at a problem if
the problem itself isn't understood well.


On 05/17/2014 02:58 AM, Alex Kotenko wrote:
> Ok, what do I need to do? How do I host a testnet seed myself? 
> 
> Best regards, 
> Alex Kotenko
> 
> 
> 2014-05-16 23:02 GMT+01:00 Jeff Garzik  >:
> 
> There are only two testnet seeds listed in bitcoind, and one of them
> returns SERVFAIL (testnet-seed.bitcoin.petertodd.org
> ) and the other
> just returns one A record (testnet-seed.bluematt.me
> ).  No idea what
> seeds bitcoinj uses.
> 
> If you are going to depend on testnet, especially for an important
> demo... contribute to the infrastructure!  This stuff doesn't just fix
> itself for free.



--
"Accelerate Dev Cycles with Automated Cross-Browser Testing - For FREE
Instantly run your Selenium tests across 300+ browser/OS combos.
Get unparalleled scalability from the best Selenium testing platform available
Simple to use. Nothing to install. Get started now for free."
http://p.sf.net/sfu/SauceLabs
___
Bitcoin-development mailing list
Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development