Re: [Bitcoin-development] BIP70 proposed changes

2014-02-19 Thread Jeff Garzik
On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 4:40 PM, Andreas Schildbach andr...@schildbach.de wrote: On 02/18/2014 08:14 PM, Ryan X. Charles wrote: BitPay is working on a new standard based on bitcoin-like addresses for authentication. It would be great if we could work with the community to establish a complete,

Re: [Bitcoin-development] [RFC] [BIP proposal] Dealing with malleability

2014-02-19 Thread Michael Gronager
Why introduce a new transaction version for this purpose ? Wouldn't it be more elegant to simply let: 1. the next bitcoin version prettify all relayed transactions as deterministic transactions fulfilling the scheme 1-6 effectively blocking any malleability attack? If miners would upgrade then

Re: [Bitcoin-development] [RFC] [BIP proposal] Dealing with malleability

2014-02-19 Thread Pieter Wuille
On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 3:11 PM, Michael Gronager grona...@mac.com wrote: Why introduce a new transaction version for this purpose ? Wouldn't it be more elegant to simply let: 1. the next bitcoin version prettify all relayed transactions as deterministic transactions fulfilling the scheme

Re: [Bitcoin-development] BIP70 proposed changes

2014-02-19 Thread Mike Hearn
Thanks for the feedback guys! I would also like to understand the problems you've been having with certificates in node.js. FYI the CA cert is *not* supposed to be included, this matches what the code in Bitcoin Core and bitcoinj expects. It may be that Bitcoin Core accepts a redundant CA cert

Re: [Bitcoin-development] [RFC] [BIP proposal] Dealing with malleability

2014-02-19 Thread Jeremy Spilman
Longer term it would be more ideal have a canonical identifier for the transaction before it even gets to the chain to support these use cases, even if wallets are able to properly identify the status of it's transactions. -Allen One possible work-around to get back trusted transaction chaining

Re: [Bitcoin-development] [RFC] [BIP proposal] Dealing with malleability

2014-02-19 Thread Michael Gronager
Twisting your words a bit I read: * you want to support relay of transactions that can be changed on the fly, but you consider it wrong to modify them. * #3 is already not forwarded, but you still find it relevant to support it. Rational use cases of #3 will be pretty hard to find given the

Re: [Bitcoin-development] [RFC] [BIP proposal] Dealing with malleability

2014-02-19 Thread Gregory Maxwell
On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 12:28 PM, Michael Gronager grona...@mac.com wrote: Twisting your words a bit I read: * you want to support relay of transactions that can be changed on the fly, but you consider it wrong to modify them. * #3 is already not forwarded, but you still find it relevant to

Re: [Bitcoin-development] [RFC] [BIP proposal] Dealing with malleability

2014-02-19 Thread Peter Todd
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 While we might be able to get away with a retroactive change in meaning right now in the future that won't be so easy. There are lots if proposed applications for nLockTime-using protocols that depend on transactions (or parts of transactions)

Re: [Bitcoin-development] [RFC] [BIP proposal] Dealing with malleability

2014-02-19 Thread Gregory Maxwell
dOn Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 12:49 PM, Peter Todd p...@petertodd.org wrote: While we might be able to get away with a retroactive change in meaning right now in the future that won't be so easy. There are lots if proposed applications for nLockTime-using protocols that depend on transactions (or

Re: [Bitcoin-development] [RFC] [BIP proposal] Dealing with malleability

2014-02-19 Thread Pieter Wuille
On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 9:28 PM, Michael Gronager grona...@mac.com wrote: I think that we could guarantee fewer incidents by making version 1 transactions unmalleable and then optionally introduce a version 3 that supported the malleability feature. That way most existing problematic

Re: [Bitcoin-development] [RFC] [BIP proposal] Dealing with malleability

2014-02-19 Thread Natanael
Regarding chains of transactions intended to be published at once together, wouldn't it be easier to add a only-mine-with-child flag? That way the parent transactions aren't actually valid unless spent together with the transaction that depends on it, and only the original will have a child

Re: [Bitcoin-development] [RFC] [BIP proposal] Dealing with malleability

2014-02-19 Thread Allen Piscitello
This is somewhat problematic in my use case since some parts need to be in the chain earlier than others and have the same ID as expected. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=260898.10 I haven't gone back to see if there are any ways around it, but the main problem here is I need the

Re: [Bitcoin-development] [RFC] [BIP proposal] Dealing with malleability

2014-02-19 Thread Natanael
You could pregenerate entire trees of alternative outcomes where you pick one branch / chain to broadcast based on the real world events as they happen. But I see another problem regarding use of oracles, if you have a P2SH address with 2-of-3 signatures or similar in the chain, amd some