Re: [Blackbelly] Marley the AB ram died, I suspect pneumonia

[Cecil R Bearden]

Extreme hot weather will cause Pneumonia as quickly as cold.  I think 
the problem is  dust in the air.  It probably is dust Pneumonia.  Makes 
no difference what we call it, it has to be treated aggressively.  I 
would not wait on the vet, I would start giving Combiotic ( Long acting 
Penicillin ) ASAP.  Also, Safeguard liquid wormer will stop the increase 
in infestation that will occur when the animal is stressed.  If you are 
in a drought, then your animals have been trying to graze on very short 
to no grass and will readily pick up a worm load .   I had a young ewe 
that was  down a few years back, she had rapid onset pneumonia, and I 
gave her Combiotic, Baytril, and liquid Safeguard  at 10am.  Vet got 
there at 12noon and started an IV. at 2pm she had diarrhea and was 
passing dead worms.  At 4pm she was up and walking some.  Next morning 
she was in good shape. Rest of flock got Safeguard pellets and another 
dose 2 weeks later.  Ivomec will not work as fast as Safeguard.


Cecil in OKla


On 9/11/2015 9:34 AM, Michael Smith wrote:

he was 8 years old. A few of the other sheep do have snotty noses as
well. I'll call the vet.

_Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies

On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 4:10 AM, Mark Wintermute
 wrote:

You did not mention how old Marley was.  I suspect he did have some age to
him.  OPP (Ovine Pulmonary Pneumonia) could be involved.  There is no cure
for OPP and it is contagious.  Your vet can assist you on testing.  If it is
OPP you will want to test the rest of your flock.  OPP is not rare here in
the United States.  Rest in peace Marley.

Mark




Marley had gotten skinny lately, and I de-wormed him, probably too late. He
also had a runny nose.  I had not taken the time to have a vet come out and
see him, since a few other sheep also have runny noses, and they always get
over it, and they look strong.

in any case, he died today. I've never dealt with this particular case
before so, sorry for the graphic questions.

When I tried to pick up his head to move him, a large amount of light brown,
very watery liquid came pouring and I mean "pouring" from both nostrils. It
smells. Not super strong, but not pleasant. I tilted his head and I am sure
I got about half a pint. I am sure there's probably another half pint in
there for sure.

I am thinking pneumonia?

If so, I imagine I should get the vet out to hear some lungs on the still
living?

Thanks in advance for your help in this.

I plan to have his skull preserved and glue that broken horn tip back on, so
I can have a nice reminder of him.  His rack was magnificent.


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Re: [Blackbelly] fencing

[Cecil R Bearden]

I installed a 5 wire alternating hot and ground wire fence about 300 ft 
long across one end of my sheep pasture about 10 years ago.   I used a 
locally built 110 volt fencer that would produce a very blue spark about 
1/2 inch long. The rams would stick their heads through the fence with 
their horns against the hot wire and when their neck hit the ground wire 
nothing would happen.  They kept going until the hot wire dropped off 
their horns onto their back and then it was like hitting them in the 
butt with a hot shot!!   It was funny to watch and should have been 
filmed for Funniest Home Videos.  However after building the fence in 
110 deg Oklahoma Summer, it was extremely irritating.
I now use 4 ft tall 6in spacing Hog Wire.  Bopttom wire is about 4-6 
inches off the ground and I install a barb wire one notch down from the 
bottom Hog wire, A barb wire in the middle of the Hog wire, on the back 
side of the hog wire, and another 1 notch above the hog wire.  Then one 
insulated wire about 3 notches above the that  wire, and one on the top 
notch of the post.   I have not had to charge the insulated wire yet as 
they have not challenged the fence.  I think the height of the fence and 
the resistance to their pushing is enough.  It really takes some good 
corner posts to handle the extra load of the hog wire.  I installed my 
corner posts 3 ft deep and they are pulling up.  An article by Kencove 
farm fence stated that the corner post should be as deep as the fence is 
tall.   In our heavy clay soil here, that is about right.  Since I have 
an old Power company digger boom truck, it won't be a problem to go 6 ft 
down


Cecil in OKla


On 7/17/2015 12:03 AM, Rick Krach wrote:

Carol, any kind of electric fence can only work inside of steel fencing, so as 
to keep animals in specific places. Any panicking sheep will go through 
electric fences in a second!  None of the serious sheep raisers I know will use 
electric only.


Rick Krach
in Auburn, CA




Message: 1
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 13:13:25 -0600
From: Carol J. Elkins celk...@awrittenword.com
To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
Subject: [Blackbelly] fencing for blackbelly sheep
Message-ID: 20150716191316.15d9c48...@diego.dreamhost.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed

I often receive calls from people wanting to know what type of
fencing is best for blackbelly sheep. I always tell them that 2x4 or
4x4 48-in.-high field fencing is preferred. But sometimes they ask
what I think about 5-6 strand electric wire or tape. I have no
experience with this type of fencing but have read that it isn't good
for sheep. That may be true for wooled sheep, but I thought I'd ask
you guys if it works for hair sheep. For those who use this type of
fencing, what has been your experience?

Carol




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Re: [Blackbelly] suden death of ABB ewe

[Cecil R Bearden]

I cannot help but suspect Selenium poisoning here.   It acts fast, Less 
than 6 hrs, and looks like pneumonia.





On 5/23/2015 1:33 PM, Laura Rinker wrote:

There were a bunch of sudden deaths on a property in Galt, Ca and a necropsy
on one of them from UC davis showed pneumonia and cardiac issues-there were
8 ram lambs that died. Not sure if this is a problem in FL but I am holding
4 ram lambs for that guy to see if there are other issues. ABB sheep are
very tough so it is a concern if there is a new bug out there that takes
them out so quickly.  My sheep are isolated from other herd so hopefully if
it is a bug it will bypass me here.

-Original Message-
From: Blackbelly [mailto:blackbelly-boun...@lists.blackbellysheep.info] On
Behalf Of marc even
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 9:28 AM
To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
Subject: [Blackbelly] suden death of ABB ewe

I am a registered ABB breeder in south miami florida

this morning my strongest 3 1/2 year old ewe died without any  sign of
illness or distress.

she gave birth 2 weeks ago to a beautiful ram (5 lbs) which she nursed
normally.

I found and burned her placenta.

She was well rounded,not skinny and she had no diarrhea and blood in her
stool

her eyes were pink

I opened her belly and did not find any unborn baby

her stomachs were full of grass

her intestines very clean and no blood

I did not find any fecal pellets

I will appreciate any info.

thank you very much

marc even e-mail:  ursulam...@gmail.com
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Re: [Blackbelly] dispatching gun

[Cecil R Bearden]

Get youjrself a .357 Marlin lever action rifle.  You can use 38 caliber 
ammo in it.  It will have a good knockdown power at close range and will 
not travel a long way if you miss...( 100 yd bullet drop).  I use one 
for coyotes in what is now becoming suburbs.


Cecil in  OKla


On 3/28/2015 2:02 PM, Steve wrote:
I think just about anything larger than a .22 would do fine.  Last 
time I had to dispatch I used a .308 with 150gr bullet.  Im also out 
in the country where no one cares about louder gun shots.


-Steve


On 3/27/2015 8:04 PM, Rick Krach wrote:
Members, I have used 22 long rifle bullets to kill my lambs for many 
years, but they're a little small and I have to carefully hit the 
animal right behind the ear. Therefore, I'm looking for a larger 
caliber rifle.  What do you use?



Rick Krach
in Auburn, CA
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Re: [Blackbelly] Sheep Mastitis

[Cecil R Bearden]

Mastitis is a real pain.  You need to feed the lambs on a bottle and 
restrict their access to that udder milk.  They can get an infection 
from it.   You can infuse the udder with Penicillin, based mastitis 
treatment.  You will have to use cattle treatments as there are none 
available for sheep.  Also you will need to give her some rather massive 
amounts of Penicillin to treat that mastitis systemically.   I would use 
Combiotic at the rate of 6cc per day.  I forget the dosage, but use the 
maximum on the bottle for the same weight as for cattle.
The udder is like a sponge with warm milk in it.   Think how you would 
disinfect a sponge.


Cecil in OKla

On 3/21/2015 12:06 PM, Jim Isbell wrote:

We seem to have a sheep with mastitis. Susie (from Soggy Top) gave birth to
triplets (2 rams and 1 ewe) on 03/18. All was well, lambs were between 4-5
lbs at birth. However, I woke up this morning to find the ewe lamb dead. No
visible injuries, she just seemed a bit thinner than I would think is
normal. Today, I see that one of the ram lambs is also looking on the thin
side. So, after feeding the adult ewes, I worked with Susie and her lambs,
noticing she isn't entirely enthusiastic about nursing them. Not running
away, just not excited about it. So, I actually put her on the ground to
give better access to her teats and put the thin ram lamb on one. I worked
her udder/bag to get it started, and I noticed that she is pretty lumpy with
some harder spots. Pretty sure she has mild mastitis. She still produces
(some) milk. Nothing wrong with it (white, fluid - no blood, lumps or
discharge).

  


Seeing as you all are experienced sheep-folk, what is the remedy here?

  

  


Thanks,

Jim Isbell

To sin is a human business, to justify sins is a devilish business.
- Leo Nikolaevich Tolstoy

  


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Re: [Blackbelly] Fading lamb

[Cecil R Bearden]

The only time I have had lambs cry out in pain is when they had 
enterotoxemia from over feeding.  I would never elastrate a lamb before 
4 months old.  It is possible that you little one tried to nurse another 
mother and was shoved into the barn, ground, etc.  I have seen other 
mothers being exceptionally mean when the wrong lamb tried to nurse.   
These mothers usually found another home if they were unnecessarily 
aggressive.  I would always keep my lambs in a pen with their mother for 
4 to 5 days before turning them out with the flock. This way they were 
bonded and did not try to nurse the wrong one...


Cecil in OKla

On 4/3/2014 4:56 PM, Carol Elkins wrote:

Natasha,

I'm so sorry to hear about your lamb. Yes, death is part of raising 
livestock, but lamb deaths are particularly painful, especially when 
you work so hard to keep them alive.


It is important that we try to learn something from every death that 
occurs. Unfortunately, all of my most valuable lessons have been 
learned the hard way at the expense of an animal's life. If we learn 
the lesson, then we are likely to not repeat it. Carefully review all 
of the circumstances surrounding the lamb's short life and determine 
if, in hind sight, there was anything that could have been done 
differently. Do not beat yourself up; simply learn.


The only thing that occurred to me from reading your email is 
wondering if perhaps it might be unnecessary to castrate your ram 
lambs. That would reduce the amount of trauma that they have to go 
through, especially so soon after birth. On my farm, ram lambs grow up 
to be either breeding rams or freezer lambs, and neither require 
castration. Unlike other breeds of sheep, blackbelly meat remains mild 
flavored well past 3 years of age. The only time I castrated a ram 
lamb was when I had to bottle feed a lamb whose mother had died. I 
knew I'd never be able to butcher him, and sometimes it's very handy 
to have a wether around.


It never gets easier. Don't let anyone tell you that it does.

Carol

At 03:29 PM 4/3/2014, R. Natasha Baronas wrote:
I put the lamb down about an hour after writing this.  He started 
crying like he was in pain.  My friend talked to a nurse and they 
feel that the lamb may have taken a hit to the head.  It sounded like 
neurological damage.


Sadly yours,

Natasha


Carol Elkins
Critterhaven--Registered Barbados Blackbelly Hair Sheep
(no shear, no dock, no fuss)
Pueblo, Colorado
http://www.critterhaven.biz

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Re: [Blackbelly] The noble Marley

[Cecil R Bearden]

Thank you Michael.  I was afraid you were going to succumb to the mighty 
dollar.  When my first ram Blackie, was not usuable for service, I 
wethered him and he turned out to be a great pet and would lead the 
flock in to the pen or wherever I needed them.  He later had an injury 
to his feet, he was over 20 years old, and was not in good health.  
After 2 weeks of trying to get his feet to heal, we decided to put him 
out of his misery.  He now hangs over the fake fireplace mantel where he 
can watch over us and we can watch him.   When I picked him up at the 
taxidermist, it was like finding a lost friend.


Cecil in OKla


On 10/8/2013 8:35 PM, Michael Smith wrote:

I was talking about when he dies. That part was not clear--now that I re-read 
it. He's my pet and will live his life out naturally on my ranch.

-MWS

Sent from my iPad

On Oct 8, 2013, at 5:04 PM, Erik Christy echri...@peak.org wrote:


I'm surprised and saddened the hear talk of executing this noble creature 
rather than continuing to admire and respect him for what he has given and the 
beautiful stature he presents to all who see him.  Is this how we repay 
elegance?



normally, I might consider taxidermy to be a morbid way to keep an old
pet, but in his case, I might make an exception.

-Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies.


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Re: [Blackbelly] Dumb lamb

[Cecil R Bearden]

I have used Mentholatum or Vicks on the ewe's nose and on the lambs back 
to get them to take a lamb.  It might work in reverse.  You might try 
some around the lambs nose, and then rub some on the ewe's legs or her 
belly so the lamb will recognize her.

Cecil in OKla


On 9/22/2013 9:42 PM, Mark Wintermute wrote:

You have a bottle baby If the momma is sincere in wanting this lamb and
trying to feed it I would keep them together and supplement with a bottle.
I have raised several triplets in this manner.  One momma just could not
milk enough to feed the babies enough but could do everything else.  It
worked out that she could take care of the babies while I was away at work.
I would feed them morning and night.  I was taking them away from the ewe to
my garage so that I could feed them at night and the morning.  Then I would
return them to the momma as I left for work in the morning.  By that time
her milk bag would have enough milk to get them through the day.  Once the
lambs were big enough I set up a 5 gallon bucket with nipples on it and they
self fed throughout the day.  I have had lambs separated from their mom at
birth that simply do not recognize who their mom is.  It is frustrating to
say the least.

Good luck,
Mark

-Original Message-
From: blackbelly-boun...@lists.blackbellysheep.info
[mailto:blackbelly-boun...@lists.blackbellysheep.info] On Behalf Of SHession
Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 2:24 PM
To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
Cc: Greg Hession
Subject: [Blackbelly] Dumb lamb

I have a ram lamb that was born last Saturday (Sept 14).  From the beginning
he wasn't right.  He was born in the barn sometime between 2 AM and 7AM.
When I found him he was dried off, but had managed to get in behind the
lambing jug, and was stuck back there, inaccessible to Mom.  I got him out
and put him and the ewe in the jug.  Within the hour he had gotten hung up
between the bottom two boards of the jug, and in the bail of the water
bucket.  He had a good suckle reflex, but lacked the reflex to try and find
the teat.  I milked ewe and got some colostrum into him.

I have continued to bottle feed him small quantities of colostrum, and now
goat's milk, while leaving him with his mother.  She has been wonderful and
attentive, and very cooperative, letting me milk her and also hold him on
her teats.  I have squirted milk in his mouth from her teat.  Still can't
get him to nurse.

Up until today he was only taking one or two ounces of milk from the bottle
two or three times daily.  I still have to pry his mouth open to get the
nipple in.  I was hoping that he would get hungry enough to figure out the
real milk source.

About an hour ago I went into the barn and Mom leaped out to the jug.  I
tried letting him outside with her under supervision, but he  just wandered
off, and didn't respond to her calls.  He did urinate, which surprised me -
didn't think he was getting enough, although he doesn't seem dehydrated.
He's in the house now , and taking the bottle somewhat better - just drank 4
ounces.  I know that is nowhere near enough, and he has lost significant
weight from his birth weight.

Has anyone else dealt with this sort of situation?  Is there any point in
putting him back with Mom?  I am surprised he is still alive, and wonder if
he is or was actually getting some small amount of milk from Mom.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Sandy Hession
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Re: [Blackbelly] Dead ewe, coyotes? or something else

[Cecil R Bearden]

Sounds like coyotes or coyote/dog cross.Look for a trail into your 
pasture and set a trap.

Cecil in OKLa

On 6/5/2013 12:17 AM, Michael Smith wrote:

(Moderator--I am re-sending this in plain text.)

New to sheep, started in 2008 as some of you folks know, and our
fencing has been real good.  Last night I might have underestimated
the ability of coyotes to get under a fence-- on our far pasture--
that a cat or rabbit can get under.

Came home from work today to see almost 10 large California turkey
vultures flying away from a carcass as I came out. My favorite, sweet
bottle baby ewe, Ruby. She was about 3 years old and had one of my
favorite ram lambs who I kept intact.

If she was attacked, I feel particularly bad, since she was attracted
to our dog since she was a lamb, and possibly was not as afraid of any
canine predators as she should have been. All the rest of the 9 sheep
and 3 goat appear absolutely fine. Let's put it this way. I have an
old ewe who I fully expected to see lying there, since she is deaf as
a post, and slow as molasses. So, an apparently healthy, perky ewe
suddenly was dead, and if she was predated, the animals decided not to
continue to feast on more of them.

Here are some details I am hoping some of you can help with. I have
pictures I can post on my website later, if it comes down to it.

1] carcass has obviously been out all day, since we saw a vulture or
two flying this morning, but took no note of it, since they are around
most every day anyways. We both had to get to work and I did not go
out and count the sheep. I am thinking she died early Tuesday morning
(June 4).

2] body was stripped clean, except for the neck, head, and skinny
portion of the legs with hooves. No large pool of blood or anything
like that. No obvious blood trail from dragging.

3] I inspected the neck, on the side facing the ground, the side the
vultures did not pick on, there was an area of hair slightly matted
with blood. Even though she had shed her winter coat, her hair is so
thick, it is difficult to say for sure if there's punctures, but I
really don't think the vultures caused this. I am thinking that is how
she was strangled, if that is what happened.

4] curiously, since I am new to this, about 10 feet from her was a
large, almost 2-foot wide layer of what looked more like llama or
horse manure. Not like sheep manure, where it would be black and
processed into pellets. It was clumpy and grassy and some was fresh
enough to be wet and greenish brown, when broken. They did have mowed
grass for lunch on Sunday, which I threw over the fence. There are no
large ruminant animals that are in that pasture.

question is: did she simply have some sort of digestive problem and
evacuate her bowels and die from some sort of distress? or could she
have done that when killed, and then was dragged the 10 feet? Or, was
it the contents of her stomach after being killed, and then she was
dragged? It was a rather large amount, and difficult for me to imagine
any of the animals having that much come out at once, normally. Again,
there appeared to be no blood on it at all.

I appreciate any one reading this, and any advice or help you might
have to offer.

The ewes and wethers have since been moved to our most secure pasture,
and the dog is sleeping with them tonite instead of the rams.

-Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies.
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Re: [Blackbelly] POSSIBLE LONE EWE

[Cecil R Bearden]

Could it be she has overeating disease, or founder?
Cecil in OKla


On 1/17/2013 10:03 PM, ljacob4...@aol.com wrote:

I have two ewes.  Mom, (Tawny) is 11 yrs. old and daughter  (Violet) is 10.
  Tawny is very ill and we are trying desperately to  save her; however, the
Vet can't figure out why she won't eat.  She was  dehydrated and her white
blood count was slightly elevated.  She was put on  IV for fluids and given
antibiotics. She's been pumped with fluids as  well.  The Vet also took some
cud from Violet and gave it to Tawny to get  her Rumen going but nothing
seems to be working.  We are going to (the Vet  Hosp.) tomorrow (Fri.) to
bring the sheep home to see if being  home will turn things around for Tawny.
It doesn't look  good.  We may have no choice but to put Tawny down.  I am
really  hoping that won't happen but if it does, Violet will be left alone and
she  will go crazy not having any other sheep around.  She needs to be
with others.  I am hoping to find someone who has a really small  herd and
would want to add Violet.  She has been raised as a pet.   Tawny was our first
Blackbelly.  We had her bred and she had twin ewes  which we kept.  Ivy, the
other twin, died from Lymphoma two years  ago.  We are located near Madison,
WI.  If anyone is within 150 miles  of us and might help Violet out should
we have to put Tawny down, I certainly  would appreciate hearing from you.
Would also appreciate any suggestions  on how to help Violet (short of
getting more Blackbellies) if no one can help us  out.  Thank you in advance.
  
Lin

_LJacob4200@aol.com_ (mailto:ljacob4...@aol.com)
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Re: [Blackbelly] lamb does not recognize momma

[Cecil R Bearden]

If you want to save it, work fast, keep it warm, tube feed if necessary, 
and remember, a Barbado ewe here in OKlahoma only gives about 20cc of 
milk per milking.  If you follow that book recipe for the 20% per day, 
you will over feed it and it will die from clostridium toxins or Founder 
as the old timers call it.   Over feeding causes the undigested sugars 
in the milk to move faster into the back gut where the clostridium 
bacteria reside and then they immediately overpopulate and create toxins 
that will kill the lamb.  Hopefully the ewes have been vaccinated for 
tetanus. Clostridium anti bacterin is available, but I have not had much 
luck with it.I may have over simplified this, but generally that is 
the way it works.
By my experience, however, warm milk will warm up the core temp quicker 
than anything else.   Try about 105 deg.   Also you can warm a cold lamb 
by putting a microwaveable stadium cushion in the bottom of an ice chest 
under a blanket.  Then another blanket on top of the lamb and a heat 
lamp focused on the towel.   Tube feeding with  warm milk is one of the 
fastest ways to warm up one that is just chilled.   I always mix 
colustrum powder with my milk replacer until all my ewes have lambed and 
the lambs I am feeding are at least 4 weeks old.



I just had a bottle baby die this afternoon.   Her mother was attacked 
by something during birth and it killed one lamb and left this one to 
try to find her mother.  We found her in the morning and she could not 
stand her chest muscles were so weak.  I made a vest to hold her legs 
together for the next 10 days and kept her in a playpen, and she slept 
with me at my side so I could keep her warm at night.  When she could 
walk, I put a diaper on her and we raised her with our dog in the 
house.  They bonded and she would run to meet cars in the drive like the 
dog..  It appears that she had a heart problem and it finally gave out.  
I think that she had her heart damaged during her first 12 hours.  She 
was licking on the salt block many times every day.  I can maybe surmise 
she was trying to raise her blood pressure by eating salt.


Cecil in OKla



On 12/17/2012 8:14 PM, R. Natasha Baronas wrote:

Great post!  Another thing is this...if the lamb is hypothermic she must be 
warmed up before she is fed.  It has something to do with how they metabolize 
their food.  I can't remember the specifics but maybe someone else can chime in?

Natasha
British Columbia, Canada

Sent from my iPad



Newborn lambs lose a tremendous amount of their body heat if not fed 
immediately, and can quickly develop hypothermia due to lack of nourishment.  
Check the newborn lamb's sucking reflex by sticking your index finger in her 
mouth.  This will also help you determine if she is warm or cold.  If the 
inside of her mouth is cold, she is developing hypothermia and must be warmed 
immediately to get her body temperature up and save her life.  Lambs can 
develop hypothermia even if the weather outside is warm.  To warm her up, wrap 
her in some towels which have been warmed in your oven.  Hypothermic lambs will 
quickly become weak (within a few hours of birth) and may not be able to suck.  
If you cannot get her to take a bottle, then you must tube feed her to save her 
life.

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Re: [Blackbelly] Fwd: Website Request for Information about BBSAI

[Cecil R Bearden]

I would add a supplement rich in vitamin H and follow with a good 
worming with safegaurd or panacur.


Cecil in oKla

On 11/18/2012 4:28 PM, Mary Swindell wrote:

Hello breeder friends,

As Registrar of the BBSAI, I answer questions from those who write in 
to the BBSAI web site at www.blackbellysheep.org.  This week someone 
wrote in (below) with a question about sheep horn health, which I do 
not know much about.  Can any of you help with advice to this person?  
I will keep this person's name private, but I will tell her that I 
have sought information from a group of knowledgeable blackbelly 
breeders.  Thank you for any advice and suggestions you can offer.  
Please reply either to this listserve, or to me privately.  I will 
forward all your responses to this person.  Her question is included 
below.


Sincerely,
Mary Swindell
Registrar, BBSAI


To: i...@blackbellysheep.org
Subject: Website Request for Information about BBSAI
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 09:56:16 -0800 (PST)

Comment: My father has 5 blackbelly sheep.  All Rams of various 
ages.  He purchased them to keep all weeds and vegetation down for 
fire prevention.  They used to have horses and Boer goats for that 
purpose on his 10 acres. Dad is getting older and the responsibility 
for their care has fallen upon me.I have been doing some research 
regarding blackbellies.  I believe they have adequate food in the 
pasture and he has supplied them with a salt block that was 
reccomended as well as whole corn in the winter.  My question is that 
recently the sheep have taken to excessively rubbing their horns on 
trees.  They have always done this but lately it has been extreme.  
The base of their horns look dry with some cracking.  The horns 
themselves look dry. Just yesterday I noticed one ram had broken off 
aprox 5 off the tip of his horn.  I am researching as much as 
possible.  I didnt like the breeder as these sheep were in poor shape 
when dad purchased them.
Is this normal for rams at this time of year?  We live in northern 
california aprox 80 from OR border.  Good land with lots of natural 
growth. I would appreciate any help.  Thank you.


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Re: [Blackbelly] Mountain Lion

[Cecil R Bearden]

Good luck.  remember you are dealing with an animal that has a nose that 
is 100,000 times more sensitive than yours.   It can smell a week old 
weinie in a closed refrigerator a mile away!!!  If it has any fear of a 
human, it will not come around.   It is a frustrating experience, as I 
had to deal with dogs and coyotes that were getting my sheep a few years 
back.   Your coyotes will probably be thankful when you get it...The 
other problem is that they roam in over a 100 mile radius, so it may not 
come back for over a year, and then bam, here it is again.   Traps, 
traps are best...  A private one will give you more bang for your buck.  
The last state trapper I had here wasn't worth my time, all he wanted to 
do was show me his new gun, and shoot the turtles in the pond.   he 
always managed to be too late on the scene to kill one.   He set a snare 
instead of a trap, and did not get anything.


If  you can bait a place where the cat will have to go through a fence, 
etc. that you can fasten a snare on, you might be able to catch it that 
way.Remember it will come back again, maybe tonight, maybe a year 
later...They roam


Cecil in OKla


On 6/20/2012 11:40 AM, Elaine Wilson wrote:

Thanks for your input.

Mary, Ray and Cecil -  I forgot to mention our location - we are in 
north-central Texas on 50 acres.


Cecil, thanks for the head's up on documentation. I didn't think of 
that, though my neighbors know what we have been experiencing. I'll 
take a picture of what's left of the one that was killed yesterday 
morning (with a closeup of the bite marks - too wide to be a coyote). 
We used it as bait last night and locked the rest of the herd in a 
too-small area for their number, also hung a 500 watt spot light on 
the side of that pen. The culprit didn't get close to the holding pen 
(no pics on the game camera), but it did drag the remains of 
yesterday's victim over 100 feet from where it was laying. I have read 
(and I have done a lot of reading on mountain lions since this has 
started happening) that if you are having your livestock taken down, 
you don't need a big game license in order to kill it. We are in a 
very rural area, so tonight my husband is going to park his truck near 
that pen (the sheep will be locked in their new hopefully safe zone) 
and hide in the bed, armed, and with any luck that will be the end of 
our predator. If not, I'm sure he'll be doing the same thing this 
weekend and if that doesn't work, maybe the Ag folks can help. I guess 
I'm hoping for the best, but preparing to continue to lose the sheep 
in this pen until the hunter has a bullet in it's head or heart.

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Re: [Blackbelly] Mountain Lion

[Cecil R Bearden]

I do not know what state you are in, but , Call Animal Damage Control.  
They are paid by federal funds and usually in your department of 
Agriculture.   File a report about your losses and document the losses 
with pictures.   If you get a chance to trap or shoot  or just run this 
one over, then you have the documentation to prove that you were 
defending your livestock.   It is a hefty fine for a mountain lion.I 
do not agree with these fines, I just am letting you know to prepare a 
case for yourself.   I would use a leghold trap.  Try to contact a 
trapper in your area.   If you cannot find one, call some of the fur 
dealers, and ask where they have some supplier of furs in your state.   
An internet search should provide you with an answer. If you are not in 
a populated area, a .223 with a scope sighted in at 300 yd will take 
care of the problem.


Just my $0.02

Cecil in OKla


On 6/19/2012 9:50 AM, Elaine Wilson wrote:
We seem to have a mountain lion that has discovered one of our pens of 
sheep. There were 40 in that one, but that was one-and-a-half weeks 
ago. As of this morning, down to 35. Just over a week ago, not 
realizing what I was looking at, I saw the predator and actually 
thought it was a victim being carved away from the herd by a coyote. I 
have seen countless coyotes here and thought it was rather 
strange-looking - it was sandy brown, almost as tall as the tallest 
sheep, about the same body size. What I thought was the potential 
victim looked at the herd that was heading for their pen, looked at 
another herd of our sheep in another pasture, then saw me (I was 
getting ready to leave and coming back to my truck from closing the 
gate at the end of our driveway) and trotted north, away from the 
sheep and promptly and effortlessly hopped over the top of a four- to 
five-foot fence onto my neighbor's property. After doing some internet 
searches, I am positive it is a mountain lion. Once they have found an 
easy food source (in this case, our sheep) they will do something 
called surplus killing. Repeated killing in the same area, not 
necessarily consuming the entire animal. The nature of the kill is rip 
out the guts, then eat the lungs, heart and liver. That is how this 
morning's kill was found. The last kills we have experienced have 
been: Day 1 - eviscerate the sheep; Day 2 (the next day) - eat almost 
everything. Also wondering if this is a female with cubs that she is 
teaching to hunt. Theorizing that she may be coming in the first night 
for the prime pieces, then bringing in the others to feed more 
thoroughly the next night. I have set up a game camera almost every 
night, but have gotten no pictures. I am not sure exactly which fence 
it is hopping over to get in this particular pen, so have moved the 
camera almost nightly. The pen is coyote-proof, so I am sure they are 
not the current predators.


We tried putting a tractor with the bucket in up-position in the pen 
last week and it deterred the second-night kill for one night. Came in 
for the kill with the tractor moved to a different position with a 
down-day between kills. Have read that scarecrows, bright lights (we 
have a motion sensor light on the sheep shelter, obviously not a 
problem for this mountain lion), tapes of loud music or barking dogs 
may help repel mountain lions, but I think this animal has no fear of 
any of those at this point in time. Have also read that the mountain 
lion probably wouldn't have a problem taking down a dog guarding the 
flock in order to get to the prey.


Does anyone have an opinion on my next concern: The larger herd, a 
pasture over from the one currently under attack, has been eyed by 
this mountain lion but so far has not been attacked. . . when it is 
finished consuming the herd it has fixated on (unfortunately, I think 
it will wipe out the herd unless we are able to kill it before then . 
. . and we have and will continue to try, though timing is everything) 
is there a good chance that it will move on to the herd of 89? I am so 
frustrated and feel such a loss of control in this situation, any 
suggestions would be appreciated. I would trade this mountain lion for 
the coyotes any day, and we have had our share of problems with them 
as well. At least the coyotes eat the bulk of the sheep, this mountain 
lion is picking and choosing the pieces it wants to consume.

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Re: [Blackbelly] Mothering ability

[Cecil R Bearden]

My dad made a halter out of some flat nylon woven strapping for a ewe 
that would not take her lambs.  We tied her to the pen and p;ut hay and 
water within reach and in 3 days she took her lambs.  We supplemented 
the lambs with bottle feeding also.  She had triplets.  When she did it 
again the next year, we tied her again and when she had weaned her lambs 
she went to the sale.  I have tried mentholatum or Vicks vapor rub on 
the lambs back and the ewes nose to get orphan lambs grafted to 
mothers.  I also took a lamb from an unwilling mother and set it into 
the pen with a mother who had just had a stillborn lamb and she took 
that little lamb just as if it was hers.  She seemed so grateful to find 
that it magically came to life.  The unwilling mother went to the sale.  
( maybe you note a trend here!)   I don't know if the mothering trait is 
inherited, or learned from the behavior of the lambs mother, but if it 
is not there, they do not stay around.


 The time and expense involved to take care of orphans is immense.  I 
am nearing weaning of 4 bottle babies this time.  One was injured during 
a predator situation during lambing at night.  The others were 
abandoned, and I could not determine who was the mother.  We had a 
severe drought and my ewes did not give a lot of milk.  3 were raised 
together in a playpen, and were found within 2 days.  The one that was 
injured was raised in the house with diapers and the dog looked after 
it.  It thinks it is a dog and runs to meet us when we drive in and also 
other people that come around.  It freaks them out to have a lamb run 
with the dog to the car!.  She also will butt heads with the dog.!!!


I have worked with blackbellies for about 15 years now.  When I first 
started, I spent a lot of time with unwilling mothers, and ewes that I 
would call head cases.  Now that I am nearing 60 years old, my advice 
is to get rid of the head cases  If they do not have any mothering 
ability, they are not part of my flock.   I have an orphan I raised on a 
bottle that just had a lamb, and she is a great mother, I am so proud!! 
   I have another ewe that had her feet frostbitten when born.  She 
only has 3 hooves.  To make things worse the bad leg is her hind leg.  
She had a lamb yesterday, and she will not allow it to get over 2 feet 
from her.  A great mother.   My point is, I will put up with a lot of 
problems if the ewe is a good mother.


 This will probably be my last lambing for along time, so I am going to 
thin my flock and keep everything that is named!!


Just my opinion and observations.

Cecil in OKla



5/11/2012 7:38 PM, SHession wrote:

Thank you to all for the good advice.  The lambs continue to do well.  Mom lets 
the babies nurse while I hold her, and has become increasingly less aggressive 
with them over the course of the day.  I am hopeful that she will accept them.  
I will put together a headgate for her tomorrow, if needed.  I wasn't good for 
much today since I was up most of the night.  Hopefully more useful tomorrow, 
although there will still be interruptions to feed the lambs.

Sandy

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Re: [Blackbelly] Have Pet ABB Weather - Can we trim horns?

[Cecil R Bearden]

A coarse sanding belt or shop roll can slip between horn and face and 
sand down the horn for some clearance

Cecil in OKla



On 4/21/2012 11:23 PM, Lucinda wrote:

Yes you can sand/ trim a few inches usually

Sent with
Lucindas ipod

On Apr 21, 2012, at 8:16 PM, atwoo...@aol.com wrote:


I searched the archives but didn't find an answer to whether you can trim
the horns back a bit. Who knows the inner physiology of the ABB's horn?  We
have pasture pet working wethers, not show or breeding rams so it is
important  to keep and fix one of our Boyz whose horns are growing dangerously
close to the  eyes. Any info from experience or references where I can get this
info?
Thanks for your help,
The Atwoods
Placerville, CA

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Re: [Blackbelly] Limping ewe

[Cecil R Bearden]

A few years ago we were having a streak of very wet weather.  My ewes 
started acting as if their feet were sore.  I fed them Vitamin H or 
Biotin as a supplement and in about 3 days it went away.  Biotin helps 
strengthen hoofs, It couls not hurt.  Clovite is a good supplement that 
has Biotin.


Cecil in oKla


On 3/7/2012 9:18 AM, R. Natasha Baronas wrote:

One of my ewes got into too much lamb text this fall.  I was worried she was 
going to bloat.  One of the symptoms associated with acidosis is limping which 
is caused by inflamed laminae (sp?).  The vet recommended that I soak her sore 
foot in ice old water.  If she continues limping maybe this will help.

Good luck,

Natasha


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Re: [Blackbelly] Limping ewe

[Cecil R Bearden]

Michael:
I have an old ewe that started limping about 3 years ago for no reason.  
She still limps and has 2 lambs now.   I would get a bottle of Banamine 
and use the dosage same as cattle.


Cecil in oKla

On 3/6/2012 4:23 PM, Michael Smith wrote:

Could use some advice on what to look for here.

older (not sure how old, but she's my oldest) AB ewe shows up limping
yesterday. I had planned on trimming hooves anyway so I penned her and
trimmed while taking a look. No foul smells, no oozing, no
discoloration I could see. No swelling of joints or apparent apparent
break. Joints moved in the right direction and freely.  Did not trim
into the quick or make her bleed. I have done that once and seen a ewe
limp for a few days, but in this case, was careful. She can grow some
pretty long eagle claws for hooves, but usually only on her back feet.
The fronts really required little trimming.

Today her limp is not better, and might be worse. In general, she does
get up and move slow and might be developing Osteoarthritis.
Incidentally, she's also mostly deaf.

Not sure how to proceed other than to pen her for a week, feed her,
keep her real dry (covered pen) and apply hoof drench?  I have a
splint I could vet-wrap onto the joints, but not sure if the hoof
itself is what is hurting... I also could wash her hoof and inspect
between the toes a bit better. Did not really do that.

In general the sheep have dry, green grass pastures and are not in a
manure and urine-filled muddy paddock, like some livestock can be. Our
rain has been maybe 1/2 every 10 days lately.  Never had a problem
with any hoof-related diseases in 4 years and with 15 sheep and pygmy
goats.

-Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies.
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Re: [Blackbelly] Giving Birth predator alerts

[Cecil R Bearden]

I should have elaborated a little more on the predator experience.   I 
think it was a neighbor's dog which is not fed and contained as it 
should be.  This occurred inside a 5 ft high chain link fenced area of 
my front yard about 20ft from the house.  The drought we experienced 
this summer and fall, has created a shortage of the usual fare for the 
predators.   I lost my 3 cats this fall to (I think) Owls that have 
started to hang around.  Every predator is now looking for food, but 
there seems to be no shortage of mice inside the buildings, and under 
the hay b ales.  Skunks are also a real pain, I have trapped 2 from 
under my office and I would bet I could get another 2 from under there 
also...


Cecil in OKla


On 3/3/2012 12:39 AM, imgr8a...@comcast.net wrote:

Well, I've had just a couple seasons of lambs now.  My Blackbellies have had no 
problems lambing, they seem to do it with ease.  But tonight, it is now 1:30 
Saturday morning, my vet left about 12:45, after performing a cesarian section 
on one of my Finn Ewes.  So, my ewe and her two new twins are in my basement.  
The reason we had a cesarian is she has toxemia, so I decided the ewe was more 
important, so we decided to take the lambs.  They are doing ok, both are seven 
pounds.  Now the hard part starts, I have to make sure they are nursing, but at 
the same time, mama can't stand up yet, so I have to shift her from side to 
side and if they don't nurse enough, I have to empty her milk so she doesn't 
stop her milk production.  I'll be doing this every hour and a half through the 
night and tomorrow.


Nancy L. Johnson
imgr8a...@comcast.net
cell: 301 440 4808


- Original Message -
From: Cecil R Beardencrbear...@copper.net
To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
Sent: Friday, March 2, 2012 7:11:40 AM
Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Giving Birth

I have had more troubled experiences this lambing than ever before.  My
ewes were too fat.  I was supplementing them and had hay out 24/7.  They
just do not have the milk production they should have had.  I had green
pasture for them to graze on until the last2  months of pregnancy.  When
I had a stomach blockage in one of my ewes she was autopsied and found
to have a lot of kidney fat which indicated she was in very good shape.
She just liked milk replacer since she was a bottle baby and got into a
sack and ate the top tear strip off the sack.  The tear strip lodged in
her gut.

One of my best ewes had triplets 2 days ago, and it appears that while
lambing with the first, a dog or some predator attacked and bit the nose
off of the lamb.  She had 2 more lambs which appear to be premature,
their teeth are not showing.  One has problems with its front legs, it
was laying sprawled out on its stomach.  It cannot hold its front legs
together.  I made a vest to hold its shoulders together.  Also made a
sling to hold it above the ground and let it excercise to build up its
muscles.  I don't know if this is from trauma or just premature.  The
other lamb is having trouble standing to nurse, so I am supplementing it.

I have a theory that has not been denied by my vet.   If the ram is
allowed to run with the ewes, it is possible to conceive in both horns
of the uterus.  However the fetuses are 15 days or more apart in
development.  When the early conception lamb is born, the others are
born due to the contractions.  This sometimes explains the triplets with
one very small, or one very large.  It may also explain the anomaly of 6
being born to one of my ewes when I sold her to some of my contractor
friends who just let them run to clean up their storage yard.

It seems that the harder I try to make a good environment for my sheep,
and keep them well fed, the more trouble they have with lambs.  I had 3
abandoned babies this time, and am raising them in a playpen and an
outdoor pen.  I had one set of triplets and penned them up with the ewe,
only to have her lay down on 2 of them and suffocate them.  The little
lamb that could not seem to keep up with Mama is now her only one.
She is going to have a new home in 2 months.  Also any one who cannot
raise her lambs or abandons a lamb will go.  I am just getting too old
to have this much trouble.  My ram lambs are also going to either be
neutered at 60 days or sold  This lambing was not supposed to
happen.  It was from a bottle baby ram that we felt sorry for, and did
not want to band him when it was so hot this summer...

Cecil in oKla


On 3/1/2012 2:14 PM, Natasha wrote:

Old pics and movies of Blackbelly twin newborns. Click the links on the top 
like Angie, Ruby, etc for other ewes with their lambs.

Great pics!  I liked seeing how you dealt with the ewe who didn't want
to nurse by putting her in closed quarters.  Last spring my one ewe
accepted the first born but hated the second and was always sending
him flying.  I struggled with her and would tie her to something solid
and hold her head while her little guy nursed.  I did that for several
day 

Re: [Blackbelly] Giving Birth

[Cecil R Bearden]

I have had more troubled experiences this lambing than ever before.  My 
ewes were too fat.  I was supplementing them and had hay out 24/7.  They 
just do not have the milk production they should have had.  I had green 
pasture for them to graze on until the last2  months of pregnancy.  When 
I had a stomach blockage in one of my ewes she was autopsied and found 
to have a lot of kidney fat which indicated she was in very good shape.  
She just liked milk replacer since she was a bottle baby and got into a 
sack and ate the top tear strip off the sack.  The tear strip lodged in 
her gut.


One of my best ewes had triplets 2 days ago, and it appears that while 
lambing with the first, a dog or some predator attacked and bit the nose 
off of the lamb.  She had 2 more lambs which appear to be premature, 
their teeth are not showing.  One has problems with its front legs, it 
was laying sprawled out on its stomach.  It cannot hold its front legs 
together.  I made a vest to hold its shoulders together.  Also made a 
sling to hold it above the ground and let it excercise to build up its 
muscles.  I don't know if this is from trauma or just premature.  The 
other lamb is having trouble standing to nurse, so I am supplementing it.


I have a theory that has not been denied by my vet.   If the ram is 
allowed to run with the ewes, it is possible to conceive in both horns 
of the uterus.  However the fetuses are 15 days or more apart in 
development.  When the early conception lamb is born, the others are 
born due to the contractions.  This sometimes explains the triplets with 
one very small, or one very large.  It may also explain the anomaly of 6 
being born to one of my ewes when I sold her to some of my contractor 
friends who just let them run to clean up their storage yard.


It seems that the harder I try to make a good environment for my sheep, 
and keep them well fed, the more trouble they have with lambs.  I had 3 
abandoned babies this time, and am raising them in a playpen and an 
outdoor pen.  I had one set of triplets and penned them up with the ewe, 
only to have her lay down on 2 of them and suffocate them.  The little 
lamb that could not seem to keep up with Mama is now her only one.
She is going to have a new home in 2 months.  Also any one who cannot 
raise her lambs or abandons a lamb will go.  I am just getting too old 
to have this much trouble.  My ram lambs are also going to either be 
neutered at 60 days or sold  This lambing was not supposed to 
happen.  It was from a bottle baby ram that we felt sorry for, and did 
not want to band him when it was so hot this summer...


Cecil in oKla


On 3/1/2012 2:14 PM, Natasha wrote:

Old pics and movies of Blackbelly twin newborns. Click the links on the top 
like Angie, Ruby, etc for other ewes with their lambs.

Great pics!  I liked seeing how you dealt with the ewe who didn't want
to nurse by putting her in closed quarters.  Last spring my one ewe
accepted the first born but hated the second and was always sending
him flying.  I struggled with her and would tie her to something solid
and hold her head while her little guy nursed.  I did that for several
day and got a sore back.  After that I bottle fed him.  I don't think
she would have accepted him - I tried putting her urine  on him ( I
read that in a book), put her milk on him trying to get her to accept
him.  She would put down her ears and just beeline for him to butt
him.  She used to be so sweet and nice and now she's quite miserable.
She was a good mom to the favoured lamb.  If she delivers this spring
I hope she does a good job of being a mom this time.

Is a ewe capable of withholding milk/preventing it from coming down?

Never ending questions,

Natasha :)
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Re: [Blackbelly] bottle lamb

[Cecil R Bearden]

Feel his belly on HIS left side see if it feels full.  If so massage it 
and rub from legs to head on his left side gently in long strokes 3 or 4 
times and listen for a burp.  If no burp, he might be bloated.  Possibly 
from not getting enough colostrum.  I add colustrum to my bottle fed 
babies for the 1st month, no matter what the recommendation.  If his 
eyes look pushed out from his head, he is probably dehydrated.  Use more 
water than the milk recipe states.  Use a feeding tube if he is weak.  
Do not overfeed,  20cc per hour until you are sure he will not 
aspirate.  I learned all this the hard way.  If you notice the bloat, 2 
drops of palmolive original dishwashing detergent, the green stuff, in a 
cup of formula will break up the frothy bloat..


Cecil in OKla


On 2/29/2012 7:12 PM, imgr8a...@comcast.net wrote:

If the lamb needs nutrition, do you have any nutri-drench?  This supplies a 
quick absorbing shot of nutrition.  You can give it three times a day.

I had a ewe that had very little milk with twins.  If I hadn't started bottle 
feeding the first night, the little one would have died.  Once her milk started 
coming in, they started nursing, but I was supplementing them with bottles for 
several weeks.

I have Finn sheep as well as my blackbelly sheep and I just stocked up on all 
my supplies in anticipation of my two Finns having at least triplets each.  One 
of them had triplets the first pregnancy.

Good Luck.

Nancy L. Johnson
imgr8a...@comcast.net
cell: 301 440 4808


- Original Message -
From: o johnsonjq...@yahoo.com
To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 2:06:16 PM
Subject: [Blackbelly] bottle lamb


Had twins born sunday n lost one. Second one was doing great n tonight/tuesday 
came home n momma ignoring him n hes just standing in the corner. Brought him 
home n working on bottle feeding but he is different from any lambs we have 
bottle fed before. Any ideas, sugestions, etc. Thank u. Oj in ok
  
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Re: [Blackbelly] bottle lamb

[Cecil R Bearden]

Very possible.  We have had some extreme weather here in OK this 
winter.  I have 3 bottle babies, and just lost 2 of a set of triplets 
from suffocation.  mama lad on them.  Had a predator visit last night, 
and lost one while in birth process.  have one on my lap now.


cecil in OK



On 2/29/2012 8:46 PM, nancy...@centurytel.net wrote:
It could also have pneumonia. I had a girl have triplets had to bring 
in 2 they were so small. Both did fine for the first 36 hours eating 
acting great. Then I left and came back 5 hours later the small one 
had snot in the nose and was going cold fast. I couldn't save her. She 
didn't have any signs of anything wrong at all it just hit her and 
that was it. Good luck. Nancy


Quoting Cecil R Bearden crbear...@copper.net:

Feel his belly on HIS left side see if it feels full.  If so massage it
and rub from legs to head on his left side gently in long strokes 3 or 4
times and listen for a burp.  If no burp, he might be bloated.  Possibly
from not getting enough colostrum.  I add colustrum to my bottle fed
babies for the 1st month, no matter what the recommendation.  If his
eyes look pushed out from his head, he is probably dehydrated.  Use more
water than the milk recipe states.  Use a feeding tube if he is weak. 
Do not overfeed,  20cc per hour until you are sure he will not

aspirate.  I learned all this the hard way.  If you notice the bloat, 2
drops of palmolive original dishwashing detergent, the green stuff, in a
cup of formula will break up the frothy bloat..
Cecil in OKla


On 2/29/2012 7:12 PM, imgr8a...@comcast.net wrote:
 If the lamb needs nutrition, do you have any nutri-drench?  This 
supplies a

quick absorbing shot of nutrition.  You can give it three times a day. 
 I had a ewe that had very little milk with twins.  If I hadn't 
started bottle
feeding the first night, the little one would have died.  Once her 
milk started
coming in, they started nursing, but I was supplementing them with 
bottles for

several weeks. 
 I have Finn sheep as well as my blackbelly sheep and I just stocked 
up on all
my supplies in anticipation of my two Finns having at least triplets 
each.  One

of them had triplets the first pregnancy. 
 Good Luck. 
 Nancy L. Johnson
 imgr8a...@comcast.net
 cell: 301 440 4808


 - Original Message -
 From: o johnsonjq...@yahoo.com
 To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
 Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 2:06:16 PM
 Subject: [Blackbelly] bottle lamb


 Had twins born sunday n lost one. Second one was doing great n 
tonight/tuesday
came home n momma ignoring him n hes just standing in the corner. 
Brought him
home n working on bottle feeding but he is different from any lambs 
we have

bottle fed before. Any ideas, sugestions, etc. Thank u. Oj in ok

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Re: [Blackbelly] lamb disappeared

[Cecil R Bearden]

I have lost a lamb in a larger pasture, and it weighed about 7 lbs.  I 
finally concluded it was to hawks.  I have good anecdotal evidence that 
a hawk can pick up a 15lb poodle.


Cecil in oKla

On 2/1/2012 4:47 PM, RAY DE SA wrote:

Hi Jerry,
Here in California I've lost bigger ABB lambs to coyotes and eagles.  Ususally 
with the coyotes I can find some tracks, but the eagles just snatch them up 
(yes I've seen it).  The coyotes are more prevalent though and they just grab 
them and run.
Ray
--- On Wed, 2/1/12, Jerryblueberryf...@bellsouth.net  wrote:


From: Jerryblueberryf...@bellsouth.net
Subject: [Blackbelly] lamb disappeared
To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
Date: Wednesday, February 1, 2012, 2:17 PM


A 2 day old ABB lamb, one of a twin pair, has disappeared.  There is no sign of 
intruders, no hair, no bones, no evidence.

We do have coyotes, hawks, owls, and buzzards here, but no panthers and no 
eagles nearby,   This lamb was in a small flock in a 2 acre paddock completely 
enclosed with a good 4 foot hog wire fence.  Our guard dog was with the main 
flock in another pasture.  I'm guessing the lamb weighed about 3 lbs, could be 
a little less; it was the smaller of the twins.

Have any of you had that experience?  Do you know what manner of critter can 
either totally consume such a lamb or remove it out of the paddock without a 
trace?

Thanks for your help,

Jerry Kirby
Windmill Farms LLC
Picayune, Mississippi


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Re: [Blackbelly] was Copper/trace minerals. and a NOW poll

[Cecil R Bearden]

It appears that this is a legitimate poll, and these folks really need 
our help as fellow livestock owners and breeders and pet owners.  We 
have had the same type of problem here in OK with humane organizations 
trying to tell a donkey rescue org how to care of their animals.  I am 
not a Donkey expert, but it appears that if a Donkey has been starved 
and then gets more than enough food it will founder.  The humane org was 
upset that hay was not out all the time.  Most of these organizations 
are manned by people with more money than brains, and think that hay 
flows from a spout like water..  I lost a ewe, one of my bottle 
raised ones, Friday.  She stopped eating.  first thought was worms, or 
some infection.  I wormed her and gave antibiotics 10 days ago, and she 
improved.  I was ready to doctor her again Friday morning, and found her 
dead.  She was autopsied by my vet.  He found plenty of fat around the 
kidneys indicating that she was in great shape, and did not want for 
food.  I had been concerned as hay is in short supply, and I have been 
limiting access to hay and also to wheat grazing.  We found a blockage 
in the stomach.  This blockage was caused by a tear strip and string 
from a sack of Ivomec feed type wormer.  I use it to worm them in the 
feed.  This type was really palatable as it used milk replacer as a 
medium for the drug.  A few weeks ago, this sack was in my shop and not 
in a closed barrel.  The sheep got into the shop to eat the cat food, 
and got into the sack of wormer and ate over half of it.  The wormer is 
not really toxic, but the tear strip is.  Since this was a bottle raised 
sheep, she had an affinity for milk replacer.  She also did not know not 
to eat paper and string, as the normally raised animals do not mess with 
baler twine or net wrap.  ( just an observation)


Sorry for the long post, but we need to support  our fellow farmers, and 
I just want the rest of you to benefit from this bad experience with 
feed sacks.  I just hate losing any one of my sheep, bottle baby or 
not.  I might also add that we found she was pregnant and probably would 
have lambed about the middle of Feb when it is the worst weather here in 
OK!


Good luck to all of you and Happy New Year.!!
Cecil in OKla


On 1/3/2012 1:06 AM, Terry wrote:

I  cannot get into any archived posts-- and I need some information that I  
recall was posted  several yaars ago.. A member of this group, added copper to 
her sheep diet, and the herd health improved- based on a book that was written, 
I believe, by someone from New Zealand or Australia. Just finding the 
information source used would be wonderful--

also, there is a poll that would be beneficial to a case I am working on/for. 
The case is going to set precedents, for sure

Please answer this poll only as regards livestock, not pets. The Baileys' 
hearing is tomorrow, so we need as many responses as we can get as quickly as 
possible. Please post this wherever people with livestock are likely to see it.

http://justice4pnw.weebly.com/polls.html;

Thanks, all, and Happy New Year

Terry W  Ohio


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Re: [Blackbelly] Fact or Fiction?

[Cecil R Bearden]

I feed dried distillers grains pelleted.  During lambing season I feed 
late in the evening.  My ewes Usually have lambs between 5 and 9 am the 
next morning.  This works for cattle, and seems to work for sheep.   As 
I said earlier, every lambing is the same only different!!!
Welcome to the wonderful world of blackbelly sheep.  Be content in the 
fact they are much smarter than their wooly domesticated sisters..


Cecil in OKla


On 11/22/2011 7:06 PM, Natasha wrote:

Hi again,

This is what one person told me about feeding grain.  If you feed
grain between 10 am and 2 pm you are more likely to have your lambs in
the afternoon.  If you grain them in the evening you are sure to have
lambing at night.  Is this just an old wives tale or is there
anything to this?  Last time around I had lambing in the wee hours of
the morning and lambing in the early afternoon.  I try to grain in the
day because of this advice of which I am a little suspicious of seeing
that it didn't hold true for both girls.  It seems a little ridiculous
to me - I would think they come when they come but this person held
herself to be an expert and I know that I am not.  So, what of your
experiences?  Do tell!  I am all ears.

Thanks,

Natasha
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Re: [Blackbelly] hay

[Cecil R Bearden]

In defense of the farmer that sold you the hay, it is extremely 
difficult to get an accurate weight on round bales of hay.  In the same 
field, I have found as much as 300 lbs difference between hay bales.  
While there are some out there who are taking full advantage of the 
plight of farmers and ranchers in the drought areas, most of us hay 
producers are trying to produce a good product and make a fair profit.  
However, in order to supply someone from another area or state we have 
to have either lost a past client or make extra cuttings we would not 
have made in previous years.  It is said that the second cutting of 
prairie hay will only take away from the next years cutting.  I have 
utilized chicken litter fertilizer on our pastures.  This natural 
fertilizer appears to be able to build up the soil and it has allowed my 
pastures to produce 2 cuttings of hay here in central Oklahoma in the 
middle of this drought.  However, if you do the math, it cost $65/acre 2 
years ago when we applied the litter.  It costs $38/bale to cut windrow 
and bale a 4x5 round bale weighing approx 1200 lbs.  That is in the 
field.  Most truckers will haul for about $5.50 per loaded mile for a 30 
to 36 bale load.  It takes about an hour to load a truck.  The costs I 
have quoted do not account for wear and tear on the equipment.  Only  
fuel and labor.  I pay from $10 to $12.50 per hour for labor.


I sent some hay to the Western part of the state for $55/bale.  It was 
ear  my true break even cost.  If the hay price would stabilize at $50 
to $60 per bale, then there would be a surplus held over to provide 
buyers when weather problems occur.  However when it is sold at $30 or 
less, many of us producers cannot stay in business.  We only bale enough 
to take care of our own stock.  If the horse market had not gone down 
the toilet here in Oklahoma, folks in the drought areas would be much 
worse off.  I had 250 bales left from last year due to a horse client 
going out of business.  Earlier this year I begged for buyers, but 
everyone waited until the last minute.  I would love to sell my hay from 
the field, and not have to store it until winter.  I have to be 
concerned with fire, tornadoes, and have to move it twice and then 
deliver it, to only be beat down on my price again at delivery.


I have baled horse quality hay for the last 10 years.  I have a large 
client list and have had to buy hay to be able to feed my own animals in 
order to provide my clients with hay that I had baled and could 
guarantee what was in the bale.   I bought equipment last year to be 
able to bale small bales and deliver them in 100 bale  lots to horse 
clients.  As I said the horse market went down the toilet due to the 
economy.  I had another horse client who decided to buy hay from their 
neighbor instead of me because the neighbor would sell for $2 a round 
bale less!!!   I had torn up my equipment on their rough fields and even 
found and  hauled a newer tractor to them for free when their own 
tractor fell apart.


If the hay buyers would get their money together and buy when the hay is 
being baled, and then provide themselves some means of storage and 
handling, then they would be in a much better situation.   Also the 
producer could depend upon a buyer for his product.   Instead, I hear 
that it is just too much money to buy hay in the summer, but they can 
pay $10/bale more in the winter.  There are a lot of CRP fields that are 
being baled here in Oklahoma and it is being sent out of state.  This 
has a lot of old growth in it, and it will only be good as a filler, 
supplement will have to be provided, as this is only roughage.  The 
weeds are probably the best thing in the hay.  I had a neighbor buy some 
for $92 dollars a 5x6 bale delivered 40 miles, and a 7 bale lot.  
However, these bales weigh no more than my 4x5 bales.  The hay is  dried 
out and bleached, it is just a filler.The light bales you bought may 
very well be from  CRP ground.


I might also add that the development and urban sprawl makes finding hay 
fields a problem.  We have these large fields of grass here just going 
to waste because the owners would rather mow it 4 times a summer and pay 
$75/hr to have it mowed than allow someone to get hay from it at no 
cost...  Go figure.


I know this rambles, but I thought you should get the perspective from a 
hay producer.  I must say that I will not sell hay to anyone that I 
would not feed to my own animals.


Cecil in OKla

On 10/24/2011 8:18 AM, Crystal Wolf wrote:


Carol, Texas has no hay in our area either so hay is being purchased 
from out of state.  Of course they are mostly large round bales and 
some large square bales.  We have been feeding hay since the first 
week of July because our pastures dried up.   My husband searches on a 
web site called Hay Exchange.  Beware though of what you buy.  He got 
taken on one load, because they bales were over 200 lbs lighter than 
what he was told so 

Re: [Blackbelly] Pipestone Vet's ad about not feeding sheep mineral

[Cecil R Bearden]

A few years back I killed about 17 lambs with selenium shots.  If your 
soil or water has selenium in it, I would not even consider feeding any 
selenium supplement.  Selenium is another heavy metal just like 
arsenic.   A lot of feeds are supplemented with selenium so that it can 
be sent anywhere in the country. One problem with this is they do not 
test the grains in the feed for selenium, so the total amount may be 
higher.   If your growing area is lacking selenium, then this may be 
ok.  If you are in an area where this is naturally occurring then your 
sheep are getting plenty of this mineral and adding it in the mineral or 
feed will have disastrous results.  There have been some studies about 
selenium toxicity, but the results were screwed up because the people 
involved were not really taking adequate care of the animals.  They 
attributed nearly 80% of the death loss to pneumonia in  most of the  
studies.  Selenium poisoning will present as pneumonia when autopsied.   
It first attacks the stomach lining.  then kills the animal by 
suffocation from a bloody froth in the lungs which is created when the 
tissues creating the air/blood barrier in the lungs breaks down.


I saved one of my bottle  lambs affected by this.  I got it to nurse the 
bottle and we think that the milk diluted the selenium in the stomach.  
Selenium is also the active ingredient in locoweed.  The pain created in 
the stomach is what causes the animal to act loco.


Selenium builds up in the tissues and will release during stress.  I 
lost another lamb a week after the injection problem, when one of my 
lambs was stressed during moving them out of a wet wheat field.


This was several years back, but I remember this like it was yesterday.  
I also researched selenium toxicity, but the studies were so screwed up 
they were ridiculous.  The studies were paid for by the feed 
manufacturers and it appeared that the results were skewed in favor of 
the manufacturers.  One of the primary studies was done in Texas, As I 
remember,  nearly 15% of the sheep flock was lost, but the losses were 
attributed to pneumonia.  Many of these sheep were found and analyzed 
over 2 weeks after death.  As I stated earlier, selenium poisoning looks 
like pneumonia after the froth in the lungs has dried out.


My apologies for this long post, but you struck a nerve.  I will not 
feed any supplement that has selenium.  Our water supply well here in 
western OK has been moved due to high selenium content.


Cecil in OKla



On 10/11/2011 6:12 PM, Carol Elkins wrote:
Pipestone carried the following advertisement for their 
Selenium/Iodine Premix in this month's Pipestone Veterinary Clinic 
Sheep Newsletter and I am curious about what the rest of you think. 
I've never had a sheep die from sheep mineral, so the ad's leading 
sentence caught my eye.

__

How many lambs and rams have to die before we quit using sheep mineral?

*There is no justification for feeding phosphorus to sheep.
*Consumption of sheep mineral is controlled by salt and flavoring 
agents, not by need.
*Sheep generally need salt, iodine and selenium in addition to their 
ordinary diet intake.
*Feedlot lambs need 20 lbs. of salt and 30 lbs. of limestone per ton 
of concentrate ration. Ammonium chloride can be added to further 
control urinary calculi.


Selenium/Iodine Premix (#8770) now contains trace minerals and iodine 
as well as selenium. Sodium molybdate is included to help ward off 
excess copper. We have added iodine and trace mineral to our sister 
product Vitamin E-Se-Iodine Premix (#6249). This should be fed win-ter 
and spring as Vitamin E content of feed stuffs declines.

DIRECTIONS FOR USE
Mix 1 lb. of either premix with 50 lbs. of salt.
Offer salt free choice.
#8770Selenium/Iodine Premix 5#  10.00
#6249Vit E/Se/Iodine 5# - $27.50
_


Carol Elkins
Critterhaven--Registered Barbados Blackbelly Hair Sheep
(no shear, no dock, no fuss)
Pueblo, Colorado
http://www.critterhaven.biz

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Re: [Blackbelly] Tired of losing sheep to coyotes

[Cecil R Bearden]

On 9/9/2011 4:42 AM, stewart wrote:

to all,
can anyone suggest the best way to protect my sheep from coyotes?
i work the late shift and the last two morning when i get home i find 
a dead sheep.
i have field fence as a barrier. spent a few hours thursday making 
certain no holes or spots the coyotes might squeeze through.

i have three donkeys. (useless)   -free to a good home.

any suggestions is much appreciated.
stewart

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Do a google search for coyote trapping.  There is an excellent book by a 
fellow up North who traps for a living.  Check your perimeter for signs 
of trails into you place.  Think like  a coyote when looking for a 
trail.  Imagine you are walking barefoot, and how you would try to walk 
where the grass would not scratch your toes..I know it sounds nuts, 
but it works.  They will follow any trail or place where the grass is 
crushed down by traffic.  They walk the roads many  times.  Is there a 
culvert under your fence.  A coyote is also lazy.  Is there feed outside 
that will attract them.  A coyote will eat anything.  They come around 
looking for the dog or cat food, and then when that is gone they eat the 
dog or catGet some leghold traps, and learn how to set them.  
Call your state agriculture department and ask for Animal damage Control 
section.  Get on the record as having problems and they may set some 
traps.  Sometimes these guys are good, sometimes they are worthless..   
The main thing is to get it on record that you have a problem.  Then 
when you catch a neighbor's dog in the trap, you have some defense 
against being accused of cruelty to animals.  It is probably just one 
coyote.  I don't know where you are located, but here in OKlahoma, due 
to this drought, we have lost all our cats.  The coyotes come into the 
yard at night.  I have my sheep running with 2 horses and 2 longhorn 
cows that hate dogs  I don't know if that works or not, or I have 
just been lucky.  I carry a riflle and shotgun in the truck at all 
times.  I keep them sighted in.   A .223 w/ scope is excellent if you 
are far enough from neighbors.   If not, a 12Guage with 00 Buckshot 
(Lead), use the 3 1/2 inch Magnum Loads with a 24 inch Barrel and full 
choke.  This is good to about 75 Yards.   Aim In the center of the body 
mass.  If those pellets get under the hide,  the coyote will go off and 
die.  If not, he will steer clear of your place.


.

Above all, pen your sheep up at night with minimum 5 ft tall fence, 
Chain link or 2x4 welded wire,  If you cannot get electricity for  yard 
lights, then try the solar powered ones.  There are some good 
inexpensive fluorescent yard lights that operate for pennies.Build 
your pen close to the house,  I assume you have a dog that is outside at 
night.  Make sure there are no shadows near your pen, I lost a sheep 
within 50 ft of my house, and tried to stay awake to catch the coyote 
coming back to the carcass.  The coyote dragged the carcass behind a 
truck into the shadows without my knowledge.


For those of you reading this  thinking this is inhumane, get real!!!  
There is nothing humane about the way a coyote kills a sheep. Loading 7 
lambs about 3 weeks old into the truck to bury is one job I do not want 
to do again.  Watching a ewe grieve over her lost lamb is not a pretty 
sight either.   The time and attention I put into my sheep would  
classify them as pets, not livestock.


If you need any additional assistance, email me.

Cecil in  OKla
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Re: [Blackbelly] fenced area needed in Guymon Oklahoma for sheep transfer

[Cecil R Bearden]

Carol:
Try the contacts listed on this website.  You could pull into the rodeo 
arena and be assured that nothing will get out

http://www.guymoncofc.org/pioneerdays.htm
Cecil in OK



On 9/6/2011 6:14 PM, Carol Elkins wrote:
I will be swapping some sheep with a person and we plan to meet 
halfway in Guymon, Oklahoma. I get nervous thinking about transferring 
blackbelly sheep from one vehicle/trailer to another without the 
security of a fenced enclosure to prevent an accidental runaway. Do 
any of you happen to live in or near Guymon and have a fenced area or 
know of one? Guymon has a fairground, but I can't see from the map if 
there are any barns. If someone familiar with the area could email me 
privately, I would greatly appreciate it.


Carol

Carol Elkins
Critterhaven--Registered Barbados Blackbelly Hair Sheep
(no shear, no dock, no fuss)
Pueblo, Colorado
http://www.critterhaven.biz
celk...@critterhaven.biz

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