Re: Change without war (was something else)

2005-04-10 Thread Robert J. Chassell
Nick Arnett asked rhetorically, Why did the British decide to pull out [of India]? Was it their good-hearted nature? Was it because of fear of violence? Or did it have nothing to do with anything they did? Did they not resist until they recognized that resistance was futile?

Re: Change without war (was something else)

2005-04-10 Thread Robert J. Chassell
Nick Arnett asked Do you mean to characterize Iraq under Saddam as an empire??? While a great deal of effort has been undertaken over the past 3/4 of a century to inspire people in Iraq to think of themselves as `Iraqi', it is clear that many of the people whom Saddam ruled thought of

Re: Change without war (was something else)

2005-04-09 Thread Gautam Mukunda
--- Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 7 Apr 2005 22:40:04 -0700 (PDT), Gautam Mukunda wrote ... virtually no one thought that inspections were working _before_ the war. No one? No one? What is your definition of working here? Certainly no one saw Saddam stepping

Re: Change without war (was something else)

2005-04-09 Thread Nick Arnett
On Sat, 9 Apr 2005 00:10:57 -0700 (PDT), Gautam Mukunda wrote Yes. Almost no one I am aware of in a professional capacity thought that the Iraqis had been disarmed. There was not _one_ intelligence service in the world that thought the Iraqis had been successfully disarmed by the

Re: Change without war (was something else)

2005-04-09 Thread Gautam Mukunda
--- Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, 9 Apr 2005 00:10:57 -0700 (PDT), Gautam Mukunda wrote I was talking about him immediately stepping down or cooperating with the inspections. I find it hard to have a conversation when the subject changes so abruptly. Then _stop changing

Re: Change without war (was something else)

2005-04-09 Thread Dan Minette
- Original Message - From: Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2005 11:19 AM Subject: Re: Change without war (was something else) --- Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, 9 Apr 2005 00:10:57 -0700 (PDT

Re: Change without war (was something else)

2005-04-09 Thread Nick Arnett
On Sat, 9 Apr 2005 09:19:48 -0700 (PDT), Gautam Mukunda wrote Nick,. do you know _anything at all_ about South Africa? I mean, like how the governments were chosen? I'll give you a hint - F.W. De Klerk was the _elected_ President of South Africa. You think that might have made a

Re: Change without war (was something else)

2005-04-09 Thread Gautam Mukunda
--- Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a question for you. It appears to me that there were changes in British public support for violent methods between 1919 and 1949. If there were not, why not run over Ghandi? From what I understand from Neli, there were also changes over

Re: Change without war (was something else)

2005-04-09 Thread Gautam Mukunda
--- Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, 9 Apr 2005 09:19:48 -0700 (PDT), Gautam Mukunda wrote And how did that come to pass? Because the white minority *led* the nation to end apartheid? Or was it the leadership of Nelson Mandela, Desmond Tutu and the countless crowds who

Re: Change without war (was something else)

2005-04-09 Thread Robert J. Chassell
Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote Beyond that, I'd bet another Doug Nickle that Bush insiders had a good idea that if there were any WMDs in Iraq they were few and far between because they were directing the inspectors where to go and what to look for ... (I read the comment

Re: Change without war (was something else)

2005-04-09 Thread Erik Reuter
* Gautam Mukunda ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Dictatorships, by contrast are (so far as I can see it) incredibly _resistant_ to public pressure. Why wouldn't they be? They don't listen to their public at home, why would they care about the World Court? There are many differences between Iraq

Re: Change without war (was something else)

2005-04-09 Thread JDG
At 01:55 PM 4/8/2005 -0700, Nick wrote: In the Persian Gulf region, the presence of American forces, along with British and French units, has become a semipermanent fact of life. Though the immediate mission of those forces is to enforce the no-fly zones over northern and southern Iraq,

Re: Change without war (was something else)

2005-04-09 Thread Gautam Mukunda
A slightly different question: Which is more resistant to transformation to the other, a democracy or a dictatorship? Or are they about the same? -- Erik Reuter http://www.erikreuter.net/ Interestingly enough, there's a fair bit of work on this topic. Above a certain point of

Change without war (was something else)

2005-04-08 Thread Nick Arnett
On Thu, 7 Apr 2005 22:40:04 -0700 (PDT), Gautam Mukunda wrote ... virtually no one thought that inspections were working _before_ the war. No one? No one? What is your definition of working here? Certainly no one saw Saddam stepping down immediately and no one thought he was

Re: Change without war (was something else)

2005-04-08 Thread Doug Pensinger
Nick wrote: On Thu, 7 Apr 2005 22:40:04 -0700 (PDT), Gautam Mukunda wrote ... virtually no one thought that inspections were working _before_ the war. No one? No one? What is your definition of working here? Certainly no one saw Saddam stepping down immediately and no one thought he was

Re: Change without war (was something else)

2005-04-08 Thread Nick Arnett
On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 12:18:57 -0700, Doug Pensinger wrote In the Persian Gulf region, the presence of American forces, along with British and French units, has become a semipermanent fact of life. Though the immediate mission of those forces is to enforce the no-fly zones over northern and