On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 6:19 PM, Olin Elliott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >So I don't think I'm able to refute the idea that a majority of U.S
> >citizens have credit card debt.
>
> To be fair, I don't have statistics for my claim either. It could be that
> the majority of Americans don't have c
Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion<mailto:brin-l@mccmedia.com>
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 12:39 PM
Subject: Re: Taking responsibility (was Re: How Government Stoked the Mania)
[Referencing people who avoid debt]
> As I said before, I commend people who have avoided that temp
[Referencing people who avoid debt]
> As I said before, I commend people who have avoided that temptation.
> But I think its fair to say they are a minority in the US.
Betting you were wrong there I went looking for facts and found this
interesting summary of numbers on U.S debt...
http://www.
L PROTECTED]>
To: brin-l@mccmedia.com<mailto:brin-l@mccmedia.com>
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 8:47 AM
Subject: Re: Taking responsibility (was Re: How Government Stoked the Mania)
Olin Elliott wrote:
>> Well, I didn't mention transparency specifically, bu
Olin Elliott wrote:
>> Well, I didn't mention transparency specifically, but there can be no
>> accountability without transparency, so it's implicit.
>
> I mut have missed that post, Charlie. Sorry about that.
Unless you, Olin, were referring to the total transparency, as in the
dear Doctor
o: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion<mailto:brin-l@mccmedia.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 8:55 PM
Subject: Re: Taking responsibility (was Re: How Government Stoked the Mania)
>Ted Turner was asked recently on a CNN interview who was responsible for the
financial crisis
To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion<mailto:brin-l@mccmedia.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 11:50 PM
Subject: Re: Taking responsibility (was Re: How Government Stoked the Mania)
On 17/11/2008, at 12:23 PM, Olin Elliott wrote:
> I'm a little surprised, since t
On 17/11/2008, at 12:23 PM, Olin Elliott wrote:
> I'm a little surprised, since this is a David Brin discussion group,
> that no one has suggested that the best possible fix for government
> waste and courruption is greater transparency and accountability.
I did:
On 15/11/2008, at 6:02 PM, C
On 17/11/2008, at 9:50 AM, Olin Elliott wrote:
> Ted Turner was asked recently on a CNN interview who was responsible
> for the financial crisis and he said "All of us. We've been
> spending more than we make for a long time ... " Basically, he's
> right. The flip side of offering easy c
>Ted Turner was asked recently on a CNN interview who was responsible for the
>financial crisis
>and he said "All of us. We've been spending more than we make for a
long time ...
>Basically, he's right.
Not if 'us' encompasses the many hard working debt avoiding people who
will also suffer by h
> The politicians have swindled us for over $1 trillion in
> the past few months, and they are getting away with it easily.
I saw a reference claiming it's more like $4 Trillion (that the U.S
government has made all sorts of commitments on the Q.T that are piling up).
Not that this brazen theft o
ED]>
To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion<mailto:brin-l@mccmedia.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 4:51 PM
Subject: Re: Taking responsibility (was Re: How Government Stoked the Mania)
On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 4:16 PM, Olin Elliott <[EMAIL
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PRO
On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 4:16 PM, Olin Elliott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Well, you know more frugal people than I do. I think if you look at the
> size of credit card debt in the United States you will see that quite a few
> of us have been living beyond our means. I commend you, though, for
>
er 16, 2008 4:14 PM
Subject: Re: Taking responsibility (was Re: How Government Stoked the Mania)
On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 2:50 PM, Olin Elliott <[EMAIL
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
> Ted Turner was asked recently on a CNN interview who was responsible for
the fina
On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 2:50 PM, Olin Elliott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Ted Turner was asked recently on a CNN interview who was responsible for the
> financial crisis and he said "All of us. We've been spending more than we
> make for a long time ... "
He's obviously wrong. I haven't been s
> How Government Stoked the Mania Housing
> prices would never have risen so high without
> multiple Washington mistakes.
> by Russell Roberts
just another three card monte guy with a libertarian agenda trying to blame the
collapse on fannie and freddie. this may have started wit
- Original Message -
From: Nick Arnett<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion<mailto:brin-l@mccmedia.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 12:35 PM
Subject: Taking responsibility (was Re: How Government Stoked the Mania)
Let's
On 11/16/2008 3:42:06 PM, John Williams ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 1:36 PM, Nick Arnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> > By what metric(s)?
>
> Over a trillion dollars stolen in the last few months, for one.
I think you need to clarify which trillion dollars you are re
On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 1:36 PM, Nick Arnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> By what metric(s)?
Over a trillion dollars stolen in the last few months, for one.
___
http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 1:35 PM, Euan Ritchie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> The politicians are the biggest swindlers here by far.
>
> I don't get how that's supposed to have worked.
Me neither. The politicians have swindled us for over $1 trillion in
the past few months, and they are getting away
On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 12:58 PM, John Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
>
> Nor should it remove responsibility from the government for
> contributing to and helping to coordinate all the craziness.
Another straw man again. Nobody here has argued to remove responsibility
from government.
>
> The politicians are the biggest swindlers here by far.
I don't get how that's supposed to have worked. Even if the political
powers that be deliberately encouraged bad financial behaviour shouldn't
the miraculous market forces have still avoided stupid risks?
Surely for the evil government to
On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 12:35 PM, Nick Arnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Let's look at the bigger picture. You won't get any argument from me that
> Those who champion personal responsibility and government accountability
> seem strangely eager to excuse corporate misbehavior by pointing the fin
On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 12:20 PM, Rceeberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Here are some interesting graphs:
> http://www.windsofchange.net/archives/long_post_on_fannie_and_freddie_with_graphs.php
Nice link, with lots of interesting data. Here is the conclusion:
"And now let me try and fit a theor
Let's look at the bigger picture. You won't get any argument from me that
housing is subsidized in the United States via the tax code and Fannie
Mae/Freddie Mac. So I'll just go ahead and acknowledge the general truth
about your contention that the government interferes in the free market for
hou
On 11/16/2008 2:13:10 PM, John Williams ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 11:51 AM, xponentrob <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> > The other problem, one that is often overlooked over here, is that this
> > situation is basically occurring worldwide.
>
> As should be quite clear
On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 11:51 AM, xponentrob <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The other problem, one that is often overlooked over here, is that this
> situation is basically occurring worldwide.
As should be quite clear by now, all global markets are linked. Supply
and demand knows no national bound
On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 11:25 AM, Nick Arnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
This does not make your case for the idea that *regulation* is to blame. In
> fact, the whole story there is about the government loosening regulations
> and lowering taxes, not tightening regulations or tax-and-spend politi
- Original Message -
From: "Nick Arnett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion"
Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 1:25 PM
Subject: Re: How Government Stoked the Mania
> On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 9:39 AM, John Williams
> <[EMAIL
On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 9:39 AM, John Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
> In case you missed it, hear is an article from last month.
>
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122298982558700341.html
>
> How Government Stoked the Mania
> Housing prices would never have risen
On Sun, 16 Nov 2008, John Williams wrote:
> In case you missed it, hear is an article from last month.
>
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122298982558700341.html
>
> How Government Stoked the Mania
> Housing prices would never have risen so high without multiple
> Wash
In case you missed it, hear is an article from last month.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122298982558700341.html
How Government Stoked the Mania
Housing prices would never have risen so high without multiple
Washington mistakes.
by Russell Roberts
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