From: John D. Giorgis [EMAIL PROTECTED]
At 12:12 PM 3/6/2003 -0600 The Fool wrote:
For example, if I wore a T-Shirt bearing the slogan Abortion is
Muder
in
bright red letters, and the mall authorities asked me to remove my
shirt, I
don't think that either you nor The Fool would be
In a message dated 3/8/2003 6:47:10 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
You are the only one making ad hominims here.
But he's not alone. Our good Dr. Brin has been trying to sell more greens,
reds, greys, and ivories in his nov
oh, excuse me.
That's an ad
At 09:59 PM 3/6/03 -0600, Robert Seeberger wrote:
- Original Message -
From: The Fool [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bullshit.
It that on your T-shirt?
If so, perhaps I can recommend a good laundry detergent, as well as
suggesting that one stay out of pastures . . .
-- Ronn! :)
Almighty
http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNewsstoryID=2326548
Lawyer Arrested for Wearing a 'Peace' T-Shirt
Tue March 4, 2003 07:55 PM ET
NEW YORK (Reuters) - A lawyer was arrested late Monday and charged with
trespassing at a public mall in the state of New York after refusing to
take off
At 02:53 AM 3/6/2003 -0600 The Fool wrote:
http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNewsstoryID=2326548
Lawyer Arrested for Wearing a 'Peace' T-Shirt
Tue March 4, 2003 07:55 PM ET
NEW YORK (Reuters) - A lawyer was arrested late Monday and charged with
trespassing at a public mall
On Thu, 6 Mar 2003, John D. Giorgis wrote:
It seems to me that a Mall is private property, and thus they have a right
to avoid the creation of confrontation on their property.
I suppose that he can argue that a Mall is essentially a created public
forum. but that argument seems like a
Of course, the _actual criminal complaint_ (as opposed
to the propaganda from activists) tells a slightly
different story:
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/crossgates1.html
Gautam
__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips,
- Original Message -
From: Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 9:17 AM
Subject: Re: Lawyer Arrested for Wearing a 'Peace' T-Shirt
Of course, the _actual criminal complaint_ (as opposed
to the propaganda from
On Thu, 6 Mar 2003, Gautam Mukunda wrote:
Of course, the _actual criminal complaint_ (as opposed
to the propaganda from activists) tells a slightly
different story:
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/crossgates1.html
Interesting - there's a dispute of fact, it seems. The complaint
John D. Giorgis wrote:
At 02:53 AM 3/6/2003 -0600 The Fool wrote:
http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNewsstoryID=2326548
Lawyer Arrested for Wearing a 'Peace' T-Shirt
Tue March 4, 2003 07:55 PM ET
NEW YORK (Reuters) - A lawyer was arrested late Monday and charged
Marvin Long, Jr. wrote:
Interesting - there's a dispute of fact, it seems. The complaint suggests
the two men were actively stopping other shoppers. In none of the news
stories I've read, however, do the mall cops actually repeat that
allegation. They just allege that other shoppers were
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Marvin Long, Jr.
...
Interesting - there's a dispute of fact, it seems. The complaint suggests
the two men were actively stopping other shoppers. In none of the news
stories I've read, however, do the
On Thu, 6 Mar 2003, Julia Thompson wrote:
Marvin Long, Jr. wrote:
Interesting - there's a dispute of fact, it seems. The complaint suggests
the two men were actively stopping other shoppers. In none of the news
stories I've read, however, do the mall cops actually repeat that
--- Marvin Long, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Or is the crux of the issue that the mall is private
property, so the
management and mall cops can do whatever they damn
well please? Excuse
me sir, that shirt you're wearing is disturbing
people. To prove that
you're behaving like a good
- Original Message -
From: Marvin Long, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 10:22 AM
Subject: Re: Lawyer Arrested for Wearing a 'Peace' T-Shirt
On Thu, 6 Mar 2003, Julia Thompson wrote:
Marvin Long, Jr. wrote
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Gautam Mukunda
...
If they were harassing shoppers - and I
would guess that they probably were - then I don't
even mind the mall telling them to leave.
The mall security people didn't ask them to leave.
- Original Message -
From: Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 10:28 AM
Subject: Re: Lawyer Arrested for Wearing a 'Peace' T-Shirt
--- Marvin Long, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Or is the crux of the issue
--- Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The mall security people didn't ask them to leave.
They asked them to take
off their shirts. Do you mind that?
Since you guess they really were harassing
shoppers, why was mall
security's response to tell them to take off their
shirts? What
- Original Message -
From: Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 11:02 AM
Subject: Re: Lawyer Arrested for Wearing a 'Peace' T-Shirt
What I don't understand is the juxtaposition of the actions by the mall
security
- Original Message -
From: Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 11:00 AM
Subject: RE: Lawyer Arrested for Wearing a 'Peace' T-Shirt
--- Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The mall security people didn't ask them
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Gautam Mukunda
...
Since any criticism of the antiwar movement is
inevitably and immediately called censorship, and we
have a sworn statement that they were doing more than
the protesters claim, more
On Thu, 6 Mar 2003, Gautam Mukunda wrote:
The Supreme Court should be one of them. There's no
serious question that _even if_ all they were doing
was wearing the shirt, the mall had a right to ask
them to leave, and arrest them for trespassing if they
did. See Instapundit's commentary, for
It is not, in fact, okay to
bother people on private property. Jackasses will
be
jackasses,
Ad hominems have no place here.
Nick
If you think that the description of someone who is
harassing people in a mall as a jackass is ad
hominem, as opposed to fair...I don't want to ever go
At 09:43 AM 3/6/2003 -0800 Nick Arnett wrote:
It seems like we don't
even agree on what the basic issue is. To me, it's not about the law of
trespass. It is about our freedom to express ourselves without authorities,
in law enforcement or otherwise, on private or public property, using
On Thu, 6 Mar 2003, Dan Minette wrote:
Out of curiosity, what if a group of anti-abortionists were wearing shirts
with anti-abortion slogans on it and coming to the mall every day to talk
to shoppers. No accosting, just asking people if they think that people
have a right to kill their own
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Dan Minette
...
I guess you didn't read the police report, in which the police officer
wrote
that he or she asked them to please cover or remove their shirts and
that
if they complied with my
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Gautam Mukunda
...
If you think that the description of someone who is
harassing people in a mall as a jackass is ad
hominem, as opposed to fair...I don't want to ever go
to a mall with you.
We didn't
From: John D. Giorgis [EMAIL PROTECTED]
At 09:43 AM 3/6/2003 -0800 Nick Arnett wrote:
It seems like we don't
even agree on what the basic issue is. To me, it's not about the law
of
trespass. It is about our freedom to express ourselves without
authorities,
in law enforcement or
--- Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
If you think that the description of someone who
is
harassing people in a mall as a jackass is ad
hominem, as opposed to fair...I don't want to ever
go
to a mall with you.
We didn't agree that there was harassment... but
more to the point,
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of John D. Giorgis
...
For example, if I wore a T-Shirt bearing the slogan Abortion is Muder in
bright red letters, and the mall authorities asked me to remove
my shirt, I
don't think that either you nor
On Thu, 6 Mar 2003, Dan Minette wrote:
Reductio ad absurdum. Nobody is claiming that here.
The reference to brownshirt alludes to that, I think.
Self-appointed brownshirt - please get the whole quote. Which precludes
an accusation of government wrongdoing, but which, yes, certainly
At 12:12 PM 3/6/2003 -0600 The Fool wrote:
For example, if I wore a T-Shirt bearing the slogan Abortion is Muder
in
bright red letters, and the mall authorities asked me to remove my
shirt, I
don't think that either you nor The Fool would be posting an article
here
about my freedom of
- Original Message -
From: Marvin Long, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 12:27 PM
Subject: Re: Lawyer Arrested for Wearing a 'Peace' T-Shirt
On Thu, 6 Mar 2003, Dan Minette wrote:
Reductio ad absurdum. Nobody
The Fool wrote:
I don't think that you really mean that.
For example, if I wore a T-Shirt bearing the slogan Abortion is Muder in
bright red letters, and the mall authorities asked me to remove my shirt, I
don't think that either you nor The Fool would be posting an article here
about
On Thu, 6 Mar 2003, Dan Minette wrote:
Reading through the complaint, I think what they couldn't stand is a heated
argument in the mall. And, that's exactly what the person arrested was
interested in. I agree that he probably didn't start the arguement, but
was happy when it started.
John D. Giorgis wrote:
At 12:12 PM 3/6/2003 -0600 The Fool wrote:
For example, if I wore a T-Shirt bearing the slogan Abortion is Muder
in
bright red letters, and the mall authorities asked me to remove my
shirt, I
don't think that either you nor The Fool would be posting an article
Marvin Long, Jr. wrote:
I'm sure you're correct on the legal implications of the mall being
private property, which suggests that to me that the mall is run by gits,
pure and simple.
If the mall is being run by gits, and you have a problem with gits, don't
bring your business to the mall. I
At 14:22 6-3-2003 -0600, Julia Thompson wrote:
For example, if I wore a T-Shirt bearing the slogan Abortion is
Muder in bright red letters, and the mall authorities asked me to
remove my shirt, I don't think that either you nor The Fool would
be posting an article here about my freedom of
On Thu, 06 Mar 2003 08:31:40 -0500 John D. Giorgis wrote:
At 02:53 AM 3/6/2003 -0600 The Fool wrote:
http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNewsstoryID=2326548
Lawyer Arrested for Wearing a 'Peace' T-Shirt
Tue March 4, 2003 07:55 PM ET
NEW YORK (Reuters) - A lawyer was arrested late
On 6 Mar 2003 at 2:53, The Fool wrote:
http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNewsstoryID=2326548
Lawyer Arrested for Wearing a 'Peace' T-Shirt
Some facts. There were a group there harrasing and preaching to
people there wering those T-shirts. They were thrown out. Then this
guy
On 6 Mar 2003 at 11:28, Dan Minette wrote:
Since you guess they really were harassing
shoppers, why was mall
security's response to tell them to take off their
shirts? What kind of
security policy is that? Is it okay to bother
people in the mall if you're
NOT wearing
- Original Message -
From: John D. Giorgis [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 7:31 AM
Subject: Re: Lawyer Arrested for Wearing a 'Peace' T-Shirt
At 02:53 AM 3/6/2003 -0600 The Fool wrote:
http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml
- Original Message -
From: The Fool [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 12:12 PM
Subject: Re: Lawyer Arrested for Wearing a 'Peace' T-Shirt
From: John D. Giorgis [EMAIL PROTECTED]
At 09:43 AM 3/6/2003 -0800 Nick Arnett wrote
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