On 31 Jul 2007 at 20:17, Warren Ockrassa wrote:
Just a couple quibbles.
There are in fact stacks of religions which claim literalism. *All*
fundamentalist interpretations of *all* sects do so.
...
Absolute rubbish, I'm afraid. Within Judaism the tiny Kairite
movement is literalist, and
On Aug 1, 2007, at 11:54 AM, Andrew Crystall wrote:
On 31 Jul 2007 at 20:17, Warren Ockrassa wrote:
Just a couple quibbles.
There are in fact stacks of religions which claim literalism. *All*
fundamentalist interpretations of *all* sects do so.
...
Absolute rubbish, I'm afraid. Within
Just a couple quibbles.
There are in fact stacks of religions which claim literalism. *All*
fundamentalist interpretations of *all* sects do so.
As to the other minor asides...
On Jul 31, 2007, at 7:45 PM, Andrew Crystall wrote:
So, what do you think of Steven Hawkins? *grins*
Hawking.
On 30 Jul 2007, at 02:41, Ronn! Blankenship wrote:
At 01:02 PM Wednesday 7/18/2007, Dan Minette wrote:
Subject: Re: U.S. health care
[...] Let me give you an example from one of the clearest numbers for
which the US performs relatively poorly: infant mortality.
The US's rate, about
On Mon, 30 Jul 2007, William T Goodall wrote:
On 30 Jul 2007, at 02:41, Ronn! Blankenship wrote:
At 01:02 PM Wednesday 7/18/2007, Dan Minette wrote:
Subject: Re: U.S. health care
[...] Let me give you an example from one of the clearest numbers for
which the US performs relatively
On 30 Jul 2007, at 14:21, Julia Thompson wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jul 2007, William T Goodall wrote:
Blacks also go to different churches of course.
Some choose to go to all-black or mostly-black churches, others
don't. I
could go on for a good number of sentences on the subject, but I
- Original Message -
From: William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 11:46 AM
Subject: Re: Religion is Valuable: Why it Must Be Encouraged
On 30 Jul 2007, at 14:21, Julia Thompson wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jul 2007,
Robert Seeberger wrote:
- Original Message -
From: William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 11:46 AM
Subject: Re: Religion is Valuable: Why it Must Be Encouraged
On 30 Jul 2007, at 14:21, Julia Thompson wrote:
- Original Message -
From: Max Battcher [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 4:30 PM
Subject: Re: Religion is Valuable: Why it Must Be Encouraged
Robert Seeberger wrote:
- Original Message -
From: William T Goodall [EMAIL
On 30 Jul 2007, at 23:19, Robert Seeberger wrote:
That does not surprise me a bit. The idea that churches are segregated
by anything more than convenience is a bit off to me. I see people
going to mega-churches, mega-church wannabes, and the nearest church
of convenience by denomination is
On 29 Jul 2007, at 02:45, Nick Arnett wrote:
On 7/28/07, William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 28 Jul 2007, at 20:16, Nick Arnett wrote:
On 7/27/07, William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'm not arguing with that. I'm arguing with the fact that religions
present their
On 29 Jul 2007, at 04:59, Ritu wrote:
William T Goodall wrote:
Religions don't present their stories as being literally true? They
don't claim that supernatural entities meddle in human affairs? They
don't claim that miraculous events actually happen? They don't claim
that divinely
William T Goodall wrote:
Atheist religions have different defining irrational beliefs. Nazism
had 'Aryan supremacy', the Greens have 'Nuclear Power is Evil' and so
on.
I am sure they do, but I really was talking about the religion I grew up
with, and if you wish to place it in this
On 29 Jul 2007, at 12:33, Ritu wrote:
William T Goodall wrote:
Atheist religions have different defining irrational beliefs. Nazism
had 'Aryan supremacy', the Greens have 'Nuclear Power is Evil' and so
on.
I am sure they do, but I really was talking about the religion I
grew up
with,
On 29 Jul 2007, at 02:45, Nick Arnett wrote:
Many religions have creeds -- short statements of faith that one
chooses to
accept as true if one is to profess that faith. Creeds exists
specifically
to identify the key truths in one's faith. There would be no need
for them
if
On 29 Jul 2007, at 13:33, Ritu wrote:
William T Goodall wrote:
All religions contain irrational defining beliefs (supernatural or
otherwise) else they wouldn't be religions. Accepting some piece[s]
of nonsense on faith is part of adopting a religious belief.
That is a wonderful non-answer
William T Goodall wrote:
All religions contain irrational defining beliefs (supernatural or
otherwise) else they wouldn't be religions. Accepting some piece[s]
of nonsense on faith is part of adopting a religious belief.
That is a wonderful non-answer to what I said...
Clearly steaming
William said:
It has a supernatural God that makes the world, a supernatural Jesus,
it has Jesus coming back from death, it has heaven and it has
resurrection and blah blah blah. If you don't believe all of this
tosh you are not a Christian.
I think it's possible to disbelieve some aspects
On 29 Jul 2007, at 13:55, Richard Baker wrote:
William said:
It has a supernatural God that makes the world, a supernatural Jesus,
it has Jesus coming back from death, it has heaven and it has
resurrection and blah blah blah. If you don't believe all of this
tosh you are not a Christian.
I am deleting, unread, all posts with this title because nobody is saying
anything new. Everybody has their minds made up and all the force of their
deepest values behind it.
http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/
__
The community stagnates without the impulse of the
On 29 Jul 2007, at 14:37, PAT MATHEWS wrote:
I am deleting, unread, all posts with this title because nobody is
saying
anything new. Everybody has their minds made up and all the force
of their
deepest values behind it.
It's those blinkered and irrational advocates of religion that
On 29 Jul 2007, at 15:31, Dan Minettte wrote:
On the whole, it appears that the literature indicates that
membership in a
religious community has a positive effect on one's health.
Correlation doesn't mean causation Dan. In a highly religious society
like the USA those who are not members
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Richard Baker
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 5:00 AM
To: Killer Bs Discussion
Subject: Re: Religion is Valuable: Why it Must Be Encouraged
Dave said:
The point being that religion -- whether you
On 29 Jul 2007, at 15:31, Dan Minettte wrote:
There is no experiment that either one of us can propose to falsify
the
belief of one of us and confirm the belief of the other. So, where
does
this place discussions of religion? Is there nothing empirically
based that
can be said
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of William T Goodall
Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2007 9:55 AM
To: Killer Bs Discussion
Subject: Re: Religion is Valuable: Why it Must Be Encouraged
On 29 Jul 2007, at 15:31, Dan Minettte wrote:
On the
Dan said:
If we were to differ, say on the latest work in mesoscopic
physics, we could straightforwardly reconcile those differences by
reference to the literature.
Yes. And if we differed about physics beyond the current frontiers of
knowledge we could in principle resolve those
On 29 Jul 2007, at 20:26, Dan Minettte wrote:
If you want, you could argue that healthy people tend to be
religious and
people with social and behavior health issues tend to be agnostic and
atheists, I guessbut I think the proposed mechanisms are better
explained by the causality
On 29 Jul 2007, at 20:26, Dan Minettte wrote:
On Behalf Of William T Goodall
Correlation doesn't mean causation Dan. In a highly religious society
like the USA those who are not members of a religious community are
also likely to be outsiders in other ways which is likely to impact
their
At 10:25 AM Sunday 7/29/2007, William T Goodall wrote:
You can't prove UFOs manned by yetis don't abduct you every night and
probe you Maru
That explains why I wake up every morning with an overwhelming desire
to get to the bathroom and smear some Preparation-H on my butt!
Thanks Maru!
--
On 30 Jul 2007, at 00:12, Ronn! Blankenship wrote:
At 10:25 AM Sunday 7/29/2007, William T Goodall wrote:
You can't prove UFOs manned by yetis don't abduct you every night and
probe you Maru
That explains why I wake up every morning with an overwhelming desire
to get to the bathroom and
At 03:08 PM Sunday 7/29/2007, William T Goodall wrote:
The USA is the most religious advanced country and the least healthy.
[...]
Very religious countries like Nigeria seem to have very poor health.
Is there any other common factor between those two statistics?
Correlation Again Maru
On 30 Jul 2007, at 00:23, Ronn! Blankenship wrote:
At 03:08 PM Sunday 7/29/2007, William T Goodall wrote:
The USA is the most religious advanced country and the least healthy.
[...]
Very religious countries like Nigeria seem to have very poor health.
Is there any other common factor
At 06:52 PM Sunday 7/29/2007, William T Goodall wrote:
On 30 Jul 2007, at 00:23, Ronn! Blankenship wrote:
At 03:08 PM Sunday 7/29/2007, William T Goodall wrote:
The USA is the most religious advanced country and the least healthy.
[...]
Very religious countries like Nigeria seem
On 7/27/07, William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'm not arguing with that. I'm arguing with the fact that religions
present their stories as being actually true
That is patently untrue.
Hey, you just told an untrue story!
Nick
--
Nick Arnett
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Messages:
On 28 Jul 2007, at 20:16, Nick Arnett wrote:
On 7/27/07, William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'm not arguing with that. I'm arguing with the fact that religions
present their stories as being actually true
That is patently untrue.
Religions don't present their stories as being
On 7/28/07, William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 28 Jul 2007, at 20:16, Nick Arnett wrote:
On 7/27/07, William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'm not arguing with that. I'm arguing with the fact that religions
present their stories as being actually true
That is
William T Goodall wrote:
Religions don't present their stories as being literally true? They
don't claim that supernatural entities meddle in human affairs? They
don't claim that miraculous events actually happen? They don't claim
that divinely inspired prophets said things we must pay
Dave Land wrote:
Religious Concepts Promote Cooperation
Effect seems to work regardless of a person's beliefs.
The point being that religion -- whether you consider it the core of
your being or a mental illness, is beneficial to humankind.
contrarian
You still have to prove
Folks,
From Nature:
Religious Concepts Promote Cooperation
Effect seems to work regardless of a person's beliefs.
A belief in God may have promoted the evolution of cooperative
behaviour, say Canadian psychologists. They found that priming
people with religious
Dave said:
The point being that religion -- whether you consider it the core of
your being or a mental illness, is beneficial to humankind.
So is your position that religions are useful rather than true?
Rich
___
On 27 Jul 2007, at 10:44, Dave Land wrote:
The point being that religion -- whether you consider it the core of
your being or a mental illness, is beneficial to humankind.
The ends justify the means eh? Perhaps if it takes blatant lies to
make a society function smoothly then there is
I totally disagree with the statement that belief in God promoted the evolution
of cooperation. I think natural inclinations of socialization and the fact that
humans are more successful as a group is what did the trick...
Although the statement could have just been bad journalistic writing...
On Jul 27, 2007, at 3:06 AM, William T Goodall wrote:
On 27 Jul 2007, at 10:44, Dave Land wrote:
The point being that religion -- whether you consider it the core of
your being or a mental illness, is beneficial to humankind.
The ends justify the means eh?
Not exactly the ends justify the
On Jul 27, 2007, at 2:59 AM, Richard Baker wrote:
Dave said:
The point being that religion -- whether you consider it the core of
your being or a mental illness, is beneficial to humankind.
So is your position that religions are useful rather than true?
Like much of what I believe, it's a
On 27 Jul 2007, at 18:52, Dave Land wrote:
On Jul 27, 2007, at 3:06 AM, William T Goodall wrote:
On 27 Jul 2007, at 10:44, Dave Land wrote:
The point being that religion -- whether you consider it the core of
your being or a mental illness, is beneficial to humankind.
The ends justify
On 7/27/07, William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I think the difference between fact and fiction is pretty clear.
I don't think anybody is arguing about that. We're talking about the
relationship among facts, fiction and truth. A fictional story can contain
truths. A bird in the hand
On Fri, 27 Jul 2007, Dave Land wrote:
On Jul 27, 2007, at 3:06 AM, William T Goodall wrote:
On 27 Jul 2007, at 10:44, Dave Land wrote:
The point being that religion -- whether you consider it the core of
your being or a mental illness, is beneficial to humankind.
The ends justify the
On 27 Jul 2007, at 22:21, Nick Arnett wrote:
On 7/27/07, William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I think the difference between fact and fiction is pretty clear.
I don't think anybody is arguing about that.
Proponents of religion always seem to be.
We're talking about the
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