RE: Getting silly Re: brin: war
Deborah Harrell wrote: Sinus washing with saline salution is a useful (but admittedly disgusting! :P) technique for removing infected mucus (aka green gunk), but I recommend it only to those who are truly _miserable_ with severe sinusitis. The key is to 'snork' not sniff the solution; salt water plus gg into the windpipe is _most_ unpleasant! :( g Well the idea is to incline your head ever so lsightly, let the water spout touch the tip of one nostril, let the water flow. Soft pranayam is the favoured breathing pattern. I'm not familiar with the use of mustard oil, but I wonder if the effect might be similar to taking too large a dollop of wasabi... ;) :) It does sting, that's true. But just a little. And mustard oil is anti-fungal, anti-viral and a good disinfectant. Plus, it leaves a slight coating of oil on the nasal passages and counters the dryness caused by the saline sloution. Ritu ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Low-Carb Diet
. Quite a few drugs, treatments or other interventions have been found over the years to have significant impact on a population of patients in the short-term, only to have the benefits shrivel at the 1 or 2 or 3 year mark (frex, use of the Swan-Ganz catheter). Debbi Don't say THAT word! Kevin T. Crossing my legs ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Getting silly Re: brin: war
On Tue, Oct 22, 2002 at 07:02:27AM -0500, Ronn Blankenship wrote: I note that we still have not received any account of the circumstances and the decision process which led Julia to snort salt . . . Okay, Jero..., uhhh, I mean Ronn. One query is enough! :-) -- Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Getting silly Re: brin: war
Ronn Blankenship wrote: I note that we still have not received any account of the circumstances and the decision process which led Julia to snort salt . . . Let's say I was in college, hadn't necessarily had enough sleep, and other people had been snorting less painful substances (e.g., powdered sugar), and my curiosity was way ahead of my real-world critical thinking skills. Oh, and dumping salt all over the place was a habit with some folks, so it was right there in front of me. Call it one of the worst momentary lapses in judgement of my life. (Another I can think of involved needing car repairs. I will *not* go into any more detail on that one.) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: World government in 50 years
A different approach to the question of world government is to speculate on why nations emerged, then see if there's anything similar happening now. What is behind the fact that people are willing to love, hate, kill and die for an essentially imaginary (that is, little basis in physical reality) community? That's the way Benedict Anderson approaches the issue in Imaginary Communities, one of the best books I've read on the subject. Anderson looks at religion, the interaction between capitalism and printing, vernacular languages and the way peoples' concept of time has changed. The relationship between capitalism and printing is especially interesting to me because I see the Internet as disruptive in much the same way as printing was 500 years ago. Its role in capitalism and democracy has been quite important, if only because both rely on access to information about competing ideas. Printing also brought copyright and patents into the mainstream. And it wiped out the gulf between those who had access to knowledge through Latin literacy and those who only knew the vernacular. If we're going to see some kind of world government, I'd expect that it will form in part in response to some of the challenges that the Internet presents, directly and indirectly. The problem of enforcing law on the Internet, or collecting taxes on net-based commerce surely will force the issue somewhat. Increasing common language may erode some of the resistance to world law. Alliances -- economic, religious, political, ethnic, etc. -- can increasingly transcend national borders because communication is so much less expensive, ideologies more easily shared. For example, as paradoxical as it might seem, the anti-globalization movement is a step in the direction of world government because it seeks to stop nations from abusing their power. How the powers-that-be respond to this challenge (assuming, as I do, that it will not go away, but will broaden and deepen in many forms) may play a big role in determining the shape of world government. World government in 50 years? I don't think so -- where's the model from which it would spring? In what domain does world governance already exist in a form that could apply broadly? To consider the question, it's important to recognize that world government would not be just a change in rules, it implies a great change in consciousness, in which people think of themselves as members of the world population more than any other community to which they belong. How many of us truly think that way now? Quite a few, I suspect -- anti-gobalists, Greens, the information wants to be free crowd... who else? Nick -- Nick Arnett Phone/fax: (408) 904-7198 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: World government in 50 years
In a message dated 10/22/2002 7:34:49 AM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I see the Internet as disruptive in much the same way as printing was 500 years ago. More so to me. I sell used books for a living. On the internet only. Already I can see the trend of the past five years increasing geometrically. Less and less is being found on the used market. Antique furniture stores are closing up all over the place. They can't find any new stock. More library associations are putting their good books on the internet, and I'm buying less and less each year. Part of the joy of stamp collecting was in finally finding that item that you've been looking years for. Now all you need is a computer and the cash. I haven't yet read The Transparent Society, but I think there can be an essay called The Transparent Economy. The internet is slowly eliminating the need for the middle man. William Taylor ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Getting silly Re: brin: war
Pleese! Only put Brin: in the subject line if it seriously needs my attention. Interesting. Topical. Urgent or about real SF. I gotta hide for a couple of weeks. See you all after the election ... about which you already know how I feel. Thrive. All of you! With cordial regards, David Brin www.davidbrin.com Deborah Harrell wrote: Sinus washing with saline salution is a useful (but admittedly disgusting! :P) technique for removing infected mucus (aka green gunk), but I recommend it only to those who are truly _miserable_ with severe sinusitis. The key is to 'snork' not sniff the solution; salt water plus gg into the windpipe is _most_ unpleasant! :( g Well the idea is to incline your head ever so lsightly, let the water spout touch the tip of one nostril, let the water flow. Soft pranayam is the favoured breathing pattern. I'm not familiar with the use of mustard oil, but I wonder if the effect might be similar to taking too large a dollop of wasabi... ;) :) It does sting, that's true. But just a little. And mustard oil is anti-fungal, anti-viral and a good disinfectant. Plus, it leaves a slight coating of oil on the nasal passages and counters the dryness caused by the saline sloution. Ritu ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Market caps v. economy (was RE: Well, This Is Fun...)
On Mon, Oct 21, 2002 at 08:03:51AM -0700, Nick Arnett wrote: On the other hand, I have no idea what percentage of the economy is represented by public companies. Certainly quite a bit, since there are relatively few very large companies that are closely held. On the other hand, there's the rather enormous government sector, which is quite difficult to compare with the private sector, especially in terms of ROI. Here are some numbers that don't necessarily answer the question, but give some clues: annual GDP of US, as of 2002Q2: $10,376.9 billion Wilshire 5000 Total Market Index capitalization (now): $8,373.6 billion US National debt (now): $6,249.7 billion Stock Price to sales ratio - WMT 1.05 JNJ 5.02 GE2.06 MSFT 9.19 XOM 1.20 PFE 5.64 C 2.85 IBM 1.58 AIG 2.85 KO5.52 Note the Wilshire 5000 is an index that tracks more than 5700 US stocks/companies. I'm not sure what fraction of the public market that represents, but it must be substantial. But the Wilshire number looks like it must be a lot less than the total capitalization of all companies, public and private, since it seems P/S ratios range from 1 to 9 for the biggest companies, and the GDP is greater than the Wilshire 5000 capitalization. -- Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Getting silly Re: Br!n war
Oh, I thought it was only a problem at the beginning of the subject. It seems we need to remove Brin: from ANYWHERE in the subject (must be a non-clever filter he has set up). On Tue, Oct 22, 2002 at 10:17:38AM -0700, d.brin wrote: Pleese! Only put Brin: in the subject line if it seriously needs my attention. Interesting. Topical. Urgent or about real SF. -- Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Getting silly Re: Br!n war
Erik Reuter wrote: Oh, I thought it was only a problem at the beginning of the subject. It seems we need to remove Brin: from ANYWHERE in the subject (must be a non-clever filter he has set up). On Tue, Oct 22, 2002 at 10:17:38AM -0700, d.brin wrote: Pleese! Only put Brin: in the subject line if it seriously needs my attention. Interesting. Topical. Urgent or about real SF. My bad -- should have taken it out when I changed the tone with getting silly. Please administer suitable bonking, someone (Unless that's what Sammy's doing to me today) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Getting silly Re: Br!n war
No, it's Mailman doing the filtering. I should write a regex that allows for Re: etc. before the phrase that causes the filtering, but I'm lazy, or busy, or something. And I can also put DB on nomail, which I'm about to ask him. Nick -- Nick Arnett Phone/fax: (408) 904-7198 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:brin-l-bounces;mccmedia.com]On Behalf Of Erik Reuter Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 10:26 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Getting silly Re: Br!n war Oh, I thought it was only a problem at the beginning of the subject. It seems we need to remove Brin: from ANYWHERE in the subject (must be a non-clever filter he has set up). On Tue, Oct 22, 2002 at 10:17:38AM -0700, d.brin wrote: Pleese! Only put Brin: in the subject line if it seriously needs my attention. Interesting. Topical. Urgent or about real SF. -- Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The UN
At 17:59 21-10-2002 -0500, Dan Minette wrote: Do you believe that the principle of one country, one vote is a democratic principle? Yes. Of course, ideally any UN decision would be made by letting every citizen of every member country vote on the issue (using the one man, one vote principle). However, given that this is not doable, the principle of one country, one vote is the best alternative. Why? Why not? To get a picture of the opinions of people around the world, the most accurate results would come from asking every citizen of every member country for his/her opinion. Do you have a better way to obtain that level of accuracy? IIRC, the majority of countries in the UN are still not representative governments. I know 20 years ago that was a certainty. I do not know if that is still the case, and I really do not have the time to do a background check on all 191 member countries. Why should dictatorships be able to dictate their will to representative governments. In the UN (with the exception of the UNSC), no dictatorship can dictate their will to other governments. It can happen in the UNSC, through (ab)use of veto power, but it is not only the dictatorships there who have (ab)used their veto power to dictate their will to the internationals community. The US, the self-proclaimed defender of democracy, has done the exact same thing. No. By rejecting the authority of the UN, the US is choosing a form of dictatorship (the US and only the US decides) over what at least to a certain extent is a democracy. No, it is choosing the freedom of a soverign state to act as it deems best. If the consequences of acting as it deems best would only affect the US, then I would probably not have a problem with it. However, going to war against Iraq is an act that has an impact not only on the US, but on the rest of the world as well, and therefore such a decision requires the majority support of the international community. No majority support, no war. When the US launches a war against Iraq, the fundamentalists in the Middle East (and elsewhere) will see this as yet another act of aggression by the Evil US, and will no doubt strike back with terrorist attacks. When that happens, US cities will not the be the only cities in the world where bombs will start going off. And quite frankly, I do not really like the idea of being blown up in The Netherlands because a warmonger in the White House wants to enforce his will on the rest of the world. Jeroen KABOOM! van Baardwijk __ Wonderful-World-of-Brin-L Website: http://www.Brin-L.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The UN
- Original Message - From: Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 4:01 PM Subject: Re: The UN Where in the UN charter does it say that a country Needed to finish the thought, sorry.. Where in the UN charter does it say that a country must gain permission before defending itself? Your suggestion, that a country should wait until its borders were crossed would fail the Chamberlin test. That is to say, by that rule, England should have done nothing while Hitler took over Austria, Czechoslovakia, and Poland. I'm more than willing to agree that the problem is hard, but that's not the solution. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Democracy (was Re: The UN (Hey, JDG!))
At 18:06 21-10-2002 -0500, Dan Minette wrote: Out of curiosity, why do you keep on twisting meanings, even when you don't have to? I do not see this as twisting meanings. Apparently I use a different definition of democracy than you do. But then, the definition the majority decides is the everyday definition that gets taught in schools here (at least, in my days it was; I cannot tell if it has been changed since then). I suppose that US schools teach representative of the people as the everyday definition. So, if you think my definition is wrong, blame the Dutch educational system. :-) The real question, of course, is the majority of whom? The majority of the people who participate in the voting, of course. Was the USSR a democracy by the Dutch meaning of the word, because the majority of the Politburo dediced? The USSR was certainly not considered a democracy. However, technically speaking the Politburo itself could be considered democratic if it made decisions by majority vote. Jeroen Voting is so much easier with Iraqi democracy van Baardwijk __ Wonderful-World-of-Brin-L Website: http://www.Brin-L.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Low-Carb Diet
--- Kevin Tarr wrote: [I wrote] . Quite a few drugs, treatments or other interventions have been found over the years to have significant impact on a population of patients in the short-term, only to have the benefits shrivel at the 1 or 2 or 3 year mark (frex, use of the Swan-Ganz catheter). Don't say THAT word! Kevin T. Crossing my legs ROTFLOL It's not _that_ kind of a catheter - it's used to monitor pressures on the right side of the heart and the lungs, and is inserted through a vein (under the collarbone or in the neck, usually). You Made The Nice Lady In The Library Look At Me 'Cause I Laughed Out _Loud_ Maru __ Do you Yahoo!? Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Question for everyone
At 19:46 21-10-2002 -0500, Adam Lipscomb wrote: There's a colloquialism that comes to mind: Insanity: Doing the exact same thing over and over again, and expecting different results. Great -- that means that insanity is what pays the bills and puts food on my table. Troubleshooting is part of my job. The problems I encounter are usually related to M$ Windows; I can assure you from personal experience that doing the exact same thing over and over again to fix a problem actually does quite often produce different results. :-) Question: What do God and M$ Windows have in common? Answer : They both work in mysterious ways. :-) Jeroen It's a dirty job but someone has to do it van Baardwijk __ Wonderful-World-of-Brin-L Website: http://www.Brin-L.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Proposed new etiquette guidieline
Everyone, I'd like to offer a proposal to add a new guideline for list etiquette. Here it is: Please don't make multiple responses to the same thread, especially to the same author, in a short people of time. In other words, hold those replies until you see if you have more to say on the subject, then send all of your comments in one longer post, rather than a burst of shorter ones. Although this will decrease your alpha mail score, it will make the list more efficient for everyone... and perhaps help you to avoid redundant responses. Nick -- Nick Arnett Phone/fax: (408) 904-7198 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The UN
In a message dated 10/22/2002 2:18:53 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Your suggestion, that a country should wait until its borders were crossed would fail the Chamberlin test. I have a different Chanberlin test. ;-) I tell someone, To change history you should go back in time and kill Chamberlin. If they think Hitler and a piece of paper, they lose. If they think American Civil War, they win. And just in case before someone emails it... If they think basketball player I go Sat Whaaa? No way to actually prove which answer is correct. It may only sort out who watches PBS. William Taylor ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The UN
--- J. van Baardwijk wrote: snip When the US launches a war against Iraq, the fundamentalists in the Middle East (and elsewhere) will see this as yet another act of aggression by the Evil US, and will no doubt strike back with terrorist attacks. When that happens, US cities will not the be the only cities in the world where bombs will start going off. I think that a US-only war on Iraq will not stay within the current borders of that country. Saddam, his back to the wall, will launch against Israel, and when Sharon responds, other Arab states will feel compelled to do something. That is a major reason for working toward a UN-sanctioned action (for which of course the US will carry the lion's share), IMO. Robert Seeberger wrote: How many months would the UN last if the US decided to pull out of the UN? Not very many I wouldnt think. [Jeroen wrote] I think you would be surprised to see how long it would last. I think the US often overestimates it importance to the world. Hmm, well I think it might last a while, but how seriously would anyone take it? I'm not trying to be an arrogant Yang here, but I'm not sure how one could overestimate the impact of the US on the entire world: economically, culturally, militarily. Pretty bloody big footprint (irony intended)... Debbi GSV Leviathan __ Do you Yahoo!? Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Question for everyone
J. van Baardwijk wrote: Have you noticed that nobody (except me and DB) have criticised JDG for his behaviour? Why do you think that is? First off, that implies that nobody's said anything about this thread, which is very untrue. As far as answering that question, a good reason is: we don't have anything to add to what's already been said, on either side. So far, it's stayed fairly civil and hasn't needed intervention yet. -- Matt ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Temptation - Buyur - Jijo 7? 8? 9? SPOILERS
William Taylor wrote: SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS Ok. The Buyur are still on Jijo and they are as sane as a black beret salesman trying to get an exclusive license for the Clinton Library. And they have left caches of technology on the big moon of Jijo. This is not said explicitly in any book. Where did you get this? AFAIK, their technology was hidden under Jijo's seas, or maybe even lower. Was the boo spaceship suborbital, orbital, or a lunar lander? No data :-( Can the Jophur get to the moon? I *think* all galactic-based technology depends heavily on hyperspace. With Galaxy Four being detached from hyperspace, I imagine that *all* galtech would fail miserably. This would *include* everything that the Buyur left, because they are just another bunch of Library-sucking Galactics. Will the solution to the full novel be more complex than giving both the Jophur and the Buyur exactly what they want? The Jophur get a universe where they are in control. The Buyur get to control the Jophur. Maybe it'll be more complex. I think Jijo _should_ be left inside a purely Relativistic Universe, with v c, and all tech coming from XX-cen Earth science. Even some species would either die or become insane - the poor Noor, for example, would become desperate, without _any_ psi [remember: psi waves propagate in hyperspace] Maybe in the middle of everything two whales, a host of Pring, and the cometary mass they're touring with will show up. Two whales? A host of Pring? Where did you get these? BTW: I have *no* idea about the relative date of _Temptation_ and the end of _Heaven's Reach_. I think _Temptation_'s end precedes the breaking of Galaxy 4, otherwise all Buyur tech would fail before the end of the book. Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Question for everyone
Jeroen wrote: Even if the discussion is technically not taken off-list, but one poster replies off-list because he apparently lacks the courage to reply on-list to on-list messages -- almost certainly because an on-list reply is likely to generate criticism of said poster's behaviour? Yes. This is a general rule. Private messages, no matter how offensive ou ridiculous, should be kept private. Then what is your opinion about people who, like JDG, make claims but refuse to answer questions, and refuse to back their claims when asked to do so? It's his right Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The UN
At 21:27 21-10-2002 -0400, John Giorgis wrote: I have always been opposed to veto power for *any* country because it gets in the way of the democratic process, so the answers to the above questions are no and no. So, in other words, the UNSC is by no means a paragon of the democratic principle. QED: Throwing out the UNSC is not throwing out democratic principle. Wrong. While I agree that the UNSC is not a paragon of democracy, it still resembles, to a certain extend, democracy. Despite its flaws, it is still a better approach then letting one country rampage around the globe, forcing its will upon the rest of the world. But of course, the US is in no position to use the argument of abuse of veto power as a reason to ignore the UNSC -- the US has done the exact same thing. Yes. Of course, ideally any UN decision would be made by letting every citizen of every member country vote on the issue (using the one man, one vote principle). However, given that this is not doable, the principle of one country, one vote is the best alternative. This is, of course, completely consistent with your views on the electoral college. These are two different things. It is technically impossible for the UN to make decisions by letting every citizen of every country vote using the one man, one vote system. However, given the significant smaller scale, an US election *can* be done by letting every citizen vote using the one man, one vote system (thus making the electoral college obsolete). Such a system requires advanced technology; a large part of the world does not have that technology, the US does. No. By rejecting the authority of the UN, the US is choosing a form of dictatorship (the US and only the US decides) over what at least to a certain extent is a democracy. First off, any institution with veto powers is democracy by only the crudest of measures. Indeed, since all decision in the US Congress are taken by a republic through democratic principles, I would argue that the US Congress is far more democratic than an institution that gives out veto powers, Was the US not one of the countries that decided that some members of the UNSC should have veto power? How can a country claim to uphold democratic principles, and simultaneously support something that gets in the way of democracy? let alone a veto power to the Butchers of Beijing. Cut the namecalling and just refer to a country by using its name. Of the permanent members of the UNSC, the dictatorial countries are not the *only* ones with blood on their hands. Besides, the US has consulted with its allies, many of whom, such as UK, Australia, Italy, and Spain have supported the US in this.Hardly dictatorship. Not exactly majority rule either. Neverminding the 536 elected representatives that participated in this decision of the US. Irrelevant. In the UNSC, the vote of the US counts as *one* vote, not as 536 votes. The voting process in US Congress is an internal matter, not an UN matter. Which, I might add is roughly 526 more elected representatives than participate in UNSC decisions. Irrelevant. In the UNSC, the vote of the US counts as *one* vote, not as 536 votes. The voting process in US Congress is an internal matter, not an UN matter. Jeroen Voting is so much easier with Iraqi democracy van Baardwijk __ Wonderful-World-of-Brin-L Website: http://www.Brin-L.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The UN
I'm sending this again because it didn't show up after ~10 minutes; if there's a glitch and 2 copies go through, I apologise in advance.-Deb --- J. van Baardwijk wrote: snip When the US launches a war against Iraq, the fundamentalists in the Middle East (and elsewhere) will see this as yet another act of aggression by the Evil US, and will no doubt strike back with terrorist attacks. When that happens, US cities will not the be the only cities in the world where bombs will start going off. I think that a US-only war on Iraq will not stay within the current borders of that country. Saddam, his back to the wall, will launch against Israel, and when Sharon responds, other Arab states will feel compelled to do something. That is a major reason for working toward a UN-sanctioned action (for which of course the US will carry the lion's share), IMO. Robert Seeberger wrote: How many months would the UN last if the US decided to pull out of the UN? Not very many I wouldnt think. [Jeroen wrote] I think you would be surprised to see how long it would last. I think the US often overestimates it importance to the world. Hmm, well I think it might last a while, but how seriously would anyone take it? I'm not trying to be an arrogant Yang here, but I'm not sure how one could overestimate the impact of the US on the entire world: economically, culturally, militarily. Pretty bloody big footprint (irony intended)... Debbi GSV Leviathan __ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos More http://faith.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Democracy (was Re: The UN (Hey, JDG!))
At 21:31 21-10-2002 -0400, John Giorgis wrote: Actually, the majority does not decide in the UNSC. First, decisions require a minimum of 9 out of 15 members. Secondly, many decisions with the support of 14-1 are not taken by the UNSC. Worse yet, several decisions have been made by just one country -- that happened every time a country with veto power decided to abuse that power to protect its friends and its own interests. But then, if you use the literal meaning, every democratic country in the world could be considered not a democracy. After all, when a government wants a vote on something, it does not go and ask every single citizen for his/her opinion; it asks the chosen representatives of those citizens for their opinion. QED: The US is not abandoning democratic principles if it does not receive the support of the UN, since the US has never operated solely on democratic principles, it operates on republican principles. Those republican principles only apply within the US. The UN has not adopted those principles but has adopted the democratic principle of one country, one vote. As a member country, the US is bound by that. How the US organises its internal democratic process is irrelevant. Therefore, if the US goes against the will of the UN, it is abandoning democratic principles -- the democratic principles of an organisation of which it is a (founding!) member. Jeroen Voting is so much easier with Iraqi democracy van Baardwijk __ Wonderful-World-of-Brin-L Website: http://www.Brin-L.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Jeroen Re: the UN
At 21:33 21-10-2002 -0400, John Giorgis wrote: Haven't you previously argued that I *never* understand what you mean? Maybe, maybe not. Can you quote a post in which I said that? Because I really do not have the time to go through some 3,300 posts to see whether or not I said that. Jeroen Other priorities van Baardwijk __ Wonderful-World-of-Brin-L Website: http://www.Brin-L.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The UN
- Original Message - From: Deborah Harrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 5:37 PM Subject: Re: The UN I'm sending this again because it didn't show up after ~10 minutes; if there's a glitch and 2 copies go through, I apologise in advance.-Deb Well and good, but there's a problem with symmetry. There is no way for us to accept your apology in advance, is there? Unless, of course, some of those weird interpretations of QM are right. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
test
I've sent 2 messages (re: the UN) in the past 15 minutes, but they haven't made it - at least to my computer. Would someone reply to this? Thanks- Debbi __ Do you Yahoo!? Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The UN
--- Dan Minette wrote: [I wrote] I'm sending this again because it didn't show up after ~10 minutes; if there's a glitch and 2 copies go through, I apologise in advance.-Deb Well and good, but there's a problem with symmetry. There is no way for us to accept your apology in advance, is there? Unless, of course, some of those weird interpretations of QM are right. Come on, Dan, it's gremlins in the system! :D I _did_ get this, and the 'test' message I also sent, so weird QMness or gremlins must be responsible. Thanks (post-deed) :) Debbi __ Do you Yahoo!? Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: test
- Original Message - From: Deborah Harrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: brinl [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 5:49 PM Subject: test I've sent 2 messages (re: the UN) in the past 15 minutes, but they haven't made it - at least to my computer. Would someone reply to this? Thanks- Debbi No, I refuse to reply. Actually, they made it. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: test
In a message dated 10/22/2002 3:50:07 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I've sent 2 messages (re: the UN) in the past 15 minutes, but they haven't made it - at least to my computer. Would someone reply to this? Thanks- Debbi ::clears throuat:: ::stands upon soapbox:: ::strikes classic orator's pose:: ::raises hand:: To this! There. I replied To this. Hey, if you are using a library computer, ain't your hour up yet? William Taylor ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Getting silly
Julia Thompson Please administer suitable bonking, someone (Unless that's what Sammy's doing to me today) Wasn't bonking what got Sammy started in the first place? Or was that boinking? *runs* ;-) Jim ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Where else?!
At 10:27 PM 10/21/2002 -0500 Ronn Blankenship wrote: Apparently there are other locations, but only the Utah location was mentioned in the story that was just on our local 10 pm news: http://www.fetal-fotos.com/ Question: What would be your reaction if you learned that a woman (or, alternatively a woman and her male partner) decided to make use of this service to create a memento before deciding to abort their fetus? That is, what would be your reaction before the woman (and possibly her male partner) are featured on Jerry Springer. JDG ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] People everywhere want to say what they think; choose who will govern them; worship as they please; educate their children -- male and female; own property; and enjoy the benefits of their labor. These values of freedom are right and true for every person, in every society -- and the duty of protecting these values against their enemies is the common calling of freedom-loving people across the globe and across the ages. -US National Security Policy, 2002 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Low-Carb Diet
--- Kevin Tarr wrote: (frex, use of the Swan-Ganz catheter). Don't say THAT word! That *is* a singularly unpleasant experience, isn't it? *shudders at the memory.* Jim ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Brin: The Future of the World Re: brin: war
At 11:48 PM 10/22/2002 +0200 J. van Baardwijk wrote: Through cooperation with other freedom-loving democratic countries, or by unilaterally deciding to ignore all those potential allies, storming into country after country with all guns blazing, and alienating all those other freedom-loving countries from you in the process? ALL those allies?The UK, Australia, Spain, and Italy are all behind the US attack on Iraq - and those are just the ones that I have heard of. JDG ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] People everywhere want to say what they think; choose who will govern them; worship as they please; educate their children -- male and female; own property; and enjoy the benefits of their labor. These values of freedom are right and true for every person, in every society -- and the duty of protecting these values against their enemies is the common calling of freedom-loving people across the globe and across the ages. -US National Security Policy, 2002 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: test
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip ::clears throuat:: ::stands upon soapbox:: ::strikes classic orator's pose:: ::raises hand:: To this! Hey, if you are using a library computer, ain't your hour up yet? Well, I went to read a magazine for 15 min, then got on another one (wouldn't have if there were folks waiting, but there are 5 'empties' right now). :) Debbi __ Do you Yahoo!? Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: test
- Original Message - From: Deborah Harrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 7:28 PM Subject: Re: test --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip ::clears throuat:: ::stands upon soapbox:: ::strikes classic orator's pose:: ::raises hand:: To this! Hey, if you are using a library computer, ain't your hour up yet? Well, I went to read a magazine for 15 min, then got on another one (wouldn't have if there were folks waiting, but there are 5 'empties' right now). :) Well, I post from work. My boss is pretty easy going about this, but he insists on going on all of my family vacations. :-) Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: test
In a message dated 10/22/2002 5:29:28 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hey, if you are using a library computer, ain't your hour up yet? Well, I went to read a magazine for 15 min, then got on another one (wouldn't have if there were folks waiting, but there are 5 'empties' right now). :) You do not live in Tucson or Phoenix or even Warren or Youngstown Ohio. You never get a second hour. Vilyehm ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The Future of the World
Ooops let me try that again. Please reply to this message. JDG At 08:21 PM 10/22/2002 -0400 John D. Giorgis wrote: At 11:48 PM 10/22/2002 +0200 J. van Baardwijk wrote: Through cooperation with other freedom-loving democratic countries, or by unilaterally deciding to ignore all those potential allies, storming into country after country with all guns blazing, and alienating all those other freedom-loving countries from you in the process? ALL those allies?The UK, Australia, Spain, and Italy are all behind the US attack on Iraq - and those are just the ones that I have heard of. JDG ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] People everywhere want to say what they think; choose who will govern them; worship as they please; educate their children -- male and female; own property; and enjoy the benefits of their labor. These values of freedom are right and true for every person, in every society -- and the duty of protecting these values against their enemies is the common calling of freedom-loving people across the globe and across the ages. -US National Security Policy, 2002 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Shooting Gallery
It looks as if in the latest attack, the sniper simply took up a position outside a bus stop, and just waited until somebody started going down the steps of the bus. Those blue Ride-On buses are the same buses that I ride to the Metro every day. In fact, my bus route starts on Georgia Ave, so with the drag-net in effect today, I drove my car to the Metro this morning. Suddenly, I no longer have any problem imagining what it must be like to be an Israeli.And I must say, that I am so happy to be going on a five day vacation to West Virginia and Ohio starting tomorrow, where I'll be volunterring at a Model UN Conference. Please God, let them catch this SOB. JDG ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] People everywhere want to say what they think; choose who will govern them; worship as they please; educate their children -- male and female; own property; and enjoy the benefits of their labor. These values of freedom are right and true for every person, in every society -- and the duty of protecting these values against their enemies is the common calling of freedom-loving people across the globe and across the ages. -US National Security Policy, 2002 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Temptation - Buyur - Jijo 7? 8? 9? SPOILERS
In a message dated 10/22/2002 5:41:54 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But I do think that if all of the Library units dummy down, this means that they are psionically linked and that they have been lying to the Galactics for over two billion years. You don't need to go to Tanith to get a better answer. Excuse me? What do you mean? I thought that you ment that all Galactic technology would not work once the Jijo galaxy broke off from the other four. I couldn't think of any other reason for having the Libraries fail. But we don't have any clear indication that Temptations follow HR. AFAIK, the adventure of Streaker along the Galaxy lanes, and the travel back with Lucky Kaa, take more time than the short time span of _Temptations_. From Temptation, 2nd page on the web: As days stretched to weeks, Peepoe learned to distinguish Jijo's organic rhythms Then, after two months of captivity, she detected signs of something drawing near. Two months ain't that short of a span. And from page 5 on the web: A partly operational craft might also prove useful to the Six Races of Jijo, whose bloody war against Jophur aggressors was said to be going badly ashore. So we know the Jophur have landed and that the war is on. I don't know how long it took Streaker to get to Earth. Here's the bad time reference. A full year after Streaker returns, there is a warfront in Galaxy Two, HR page 547 There are four different Uplift time / story lines Dr. Brin can be going with. Jijo The return of Creideiki Earth and the Four Galaxies Polkjhy unless one or more cross over with the other. BIG BIG BIG SPOILER Did Creideiki visit the Polkjhy? And how? William Taylor ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Shooting Gallery
At 09:41 PM 10/22/2002 EDT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What if the SOB is caught in Maryland by an armed civilian of Virginia that can only legally carry a firearm in his own state? A mild thought to all of this mess. This is the perfect example of why we require trial-by-jury in this country. JDG ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] People everywhere want to say what they think; choose who will govern them; worship as they please; educate their children -- male and female; own property; and enjoy the benefits of their labor. These values of freedom are right and true for every person, in every society -- and the duty of protecting these values against their enemies is the common calling of freedom-loving people across the globe and across the ages. -US National Security Policy, 2002 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Temptation - Buyur - Jijo 7? 8? 9? SPOILERS
In a message dated 10/22/2002 7:17:46 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: So we know the Jophur have landed and that the war is on. No, the Jophur _left_ an occupation force in Jijo. They took Biblos, and even some Gray Queens were said to be allying with them. No, these landed Jophur are different than those Jophur. The additional ones on Jijo for the Temptation story are the leftovers that were following Harry's route as the Rupture occurred. This is too complex. Where are the Cliff notes? I do not remember any Galactic machine or ship getting power directly from hyperspce when in or not in hyperspace. I'll have to do another readthrough and this time with a highlighter. Green for technology, orange for names dates, and pink for philosophy. That's how I did it for H. Beam Piper. But Brin in paperback is almost never seen at the used bookstores. Too popular. :-) William Taylor ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Week 8 Picks
Well, I more-or-less redeemed myself this week with a 10-4 outing, and 60-42 on the season. The Upset Special season standings won't be mentioned out of sheer embarassment.. Atlanta (+3.5) at New Orleans - O.k. everybody suddenly thinks that the Saints are the best team in football. Yes, these same Saints who lost to Detroit, and regularly seem to spot their opposition 14-20 points before starting to play. Here's guessing that the Saints go the way of the Raiders and the Dolphins, the last two teams to be so annoited. Pick: FALCONS, who remain inexorably Super Bowl bound UPSET SPECIAL Tampa at Carolina (+6.5) - Apparently the Panthers will only be able to lose 13 games in a row this season. The Bucs will bounce back. Pick: BUCCANEERS and to cover Chicago at Minnesota (+1) - O.k., even Tommy Maddox lost his first game as a starter. *This* week Chris Chandler creates a QB controversy in Chicago. Pick: BEARS, and to cover Tennessee at Cincinnati (+5.5) - O.k., even I have learned my lesson about picking the Bengals. Pick: TITANS, and to cover Cleveland at NY Jets (+3) - Sure, they beat the Vikings last week, but I truly believe that the boys in green have finally put everything together. Its not too late for that Jets-Steelers matchup so many people were predicting to still happen in the playoffs, only with Pennington vs. Maddox, just like they drew it up! Pick: JETS and to cover Arizona (+8) at San Francisco - The Niners choked in the bayou last week, and will be looking to bounce back at home. Pick: 49'ERS, but 8 points is way too much for a Cardinals team that has mastered the art of playing ugly football Detroit (+7) at Buffalo - The Bills got a win gift-wrapped and Miami last week, and just when they'd be ripe for a let-down, they come home to play the Lions, who are coming off of a stunning win themselves. As long as they don't look ahead to the Bledsoe-Brady Bowl next week, Bills will set themselves up as contenders. Pick: BILLS, and to cover Denver (+3) at New England - The Broncos are coming off of a huge road win, and now must travel to play a reeling New England team, that has had the bye week to prepare. Ouch. Pick: PATRIOTS, and to cover Oakland at Kansas City (+3) - I saw the Raiders play in Buffalo in person, and even after that win got the Raiders annoited as the best team in the NFL, I still took notice that their defence was weak. Of course, Kansas City's may be even weaker, but at least the Chiefs are relatively healthy, and at home. In a mild upset... Pick: CHIEFS Houston (+10.5) at Jacksonville - A good team, reeling off of a tough loss, coming home to play an inferior opponent. Not much reason to like the Texans in this. Pick: JAGUARS, and to cover Pittsburgh at Baltimore (+2.5) - I've been picking against the Pittsburgh Steelers all year, and with them going on the road to play the plucky Ravens, I can't start now can I. Well, I do have to go with my haed Pick: STEELERS, but take the points Indianapolis at Washington(+2) - The Rotating Redskins may be just the thing that Indy's reeling defense needs. Pick: COLTS, and to cover Seattle (+2.5) at Dallas - So, Game 7 of the World Series, or a has-been running back chasing the NFL career rushing yards record (he won't be touching the true measure of RB performance - combined yards rushing and receiving)?Hmmm even I take the baseball for this one. And with Dallas starting a rookie QB in his first start of any football game in five years Pick: SEATTLE, to spoil Emmit's day. NY Giants (+7) at Philadelphia - I usually love teams coming off the Bye Week, but the G-Men are mediocre at best and I truly believe that Philly is one of the two or three best teams in the NFL right now. Pick: EAGLES, and to cover ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] People everywhere want to say what they think; choose who will govern them; worship as they please; educate their children -- male and female; own property; and enjoy the benefits of their labor. These values of freedom are right and true for every person, in every society -- and the duty of protecting these values against their enemies is the common calling of freedom-loving people across the globe and across the ages. -US National Security Policy, 2002 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
