Re: Fair Trade
At 03:55 PM Sunday 9/14/2008, Jon Louis Mann wrote: I'd like to see some numbers on how we could feed the existing mouths at a price they can afford to pay if the latter restrictions were enforced worldwide. Do you have any? . . . ronn! :) hell no!~) i said that we can't feed the world and dispense with agribusiness, but i hope we can dispense make food production more productive and less destructive to habitats. we are approaching 7 billion people and little sign of reaching zpg. jon So what selection criteria do you suggest be used? And again, are you volunteering to be first? . . . ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Wall Street Turmoil
At 06:22 PM Monday 9/15/2008, John Garcia wrote: I think that these song lyrics from 1931 sum up how I feel right now: Once I built a railroad I made it run Made it race against time. Once I built a railroad Now it's done Brother, can you spare a dime? Once I built a tower up to the sun Brick and rivet and lime. Once I built a tower, Now it's done. Brother, can you spare a dime? -- Brother Can You Spare A Dime lyrics by Yip Harney, music by Jay Gorney where's FDR when we need him maru Who needs him when we have color? http://www.jumbojoke.com/homeland_security_alerts_1711.html?awt_l=HgQDxawt_m=1d23Vrtrq7Onkr . . . ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Wall Street Turmoil
On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 8:11 AM, Ronn! Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 06:22 PM Monday 9/15/2008, John Garcia wrote: I think that these song lyrics from 1931 sum up how I feel right now: Once I built a railroad I made it run Made it race against time. Once I built a railroad Now it's done Brother, can you spare a dime? Once I built a tower up to the sun Brick and rivet and lime. Once I built a tower, Now it's done. Brother, can you spare a dime? -- Brother Can You Spare A Dime lyrics by Yip Harney, music by Jay Gorney where's FDR when we need him maru Who needs him when we have color? http://www.jumbojoke.com/homeland_security_alerts_1711.html?awt_l=HgQDxawt_m=1d23Vrtrq7Onkr . . . ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l oh, this is just too good! thanks! john ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Fair Trade
I said that we can't feed the world and dispense with agribusiness, but i hope we can dispense make food production more productive and less destructive to habitats. we are approaching 7 billion people and little sign of reaching zpg. So what selection criteria do you suggest be used? And again, are you volunteering to be first? Historically civilizations have often used abortions and infanticide to cull unwanted populations. The occassional war contributes but unless one side is committed to genocidal resolutions wars don't really cull that many (more people were alive at the end of WW2 than its start). Though once upon a time when tribes fought they didn't used to be coy about wiping out the opposition to enjoy their resources. Today we can do it by using more humane methods of contraception and it has helped slow growth. IIRC U.N demographers believe the worlds population will stabilise at between 9 and 12 billion with the estimates tending lower and lower over the last few years. Which doesn't really help when the highest rate of consumption on the planet uses about six times our sustainable production of possible renewable resources and everyone aspires to that consumtion. Ideally we need wealth and high standards of living for all which is a proven supressor of population but without it being coupled to ruinous consumption of resources. A tricky proposition. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Fair Trade
On Sep 14, 2008, at 10:59 PM, Julia Thompson wrote: On Sun, 14 Sep 2008, Bruce Bostwick wrote: Any solution yet to the problem that any sort of advance in the efficiency of growing and producing crops is immediately countered by a corresponding increase in population and thus demand for the food being produced? She was a supersized meal of pop culture. We gobbled her down—in Playboy or on the E! network—felt a little sick afterward and then blamed her, like heart patients suing a fast-food chain. -- James Poniewozik in an essay about Anna Nicole Smith in Time magazine I've got to ask, Bruce - was that .sig a deliberate choice or random chance this time? Julia I think it was random, but I read it and decided it fit the subject in a rather skewed fashion. :) Listen, when you get home tonight, you're gonna be confronted by the instinct to drink a lot. Trust that instinct. Manage the pain. Don't try to be a hero. -- Toby Ziegler ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Fair Trade
I said that we can't feed the world and dispense with agribusiness, but i hope we can dispense make food production more productive and less destructive to habitats. we are approaching 7 billion people and little sign of reaching zpg. So what selection criteria do you suggest be used? And again, are you volunteering to be first? First for what; are you suggesting that it's all my fault and I should commit suicide? I've used birth control all my life, but it was the woman's choice when accidents happened. I took responsibility and married both of them. Eventually the world's population will stabilize but conspicuous consumption continues to increase. I don't know if humans will learn to control their materialistic greed and adopt sustainable lifestyles... Jon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Fair Trade
On Tue, 16 Sep 2008, Jon Louis Mann wrote: I said that we can't feed the world and dispense with agribusiness, but i hope we can dispense make food production more productive and less destructive to habitats. we are approaching 7 billion people and little sign of reaching zpg. So what selection criteria do you suggest be used? And again, are you volunteering to be first? First for what; are you suggesting that it's all my fault and I should commit suicide? I've used birth control all my life, but it was the woman's choice when accidents happened. I took responsibility and married both of them. Eventually the world's population will stabilize but conspicuous consumption continues to increase. I don't know if humans will learn to control their materialistic greed and adopt sustainable lifestyles... Jon If you don't want to father a child but you want to have sexual intercourse with a woman, a vasectomy is a really great line of defense there. (A number of the guys that I know who have decided hey, they really don't want to father children, or don't want to father any *more* children, have had vasectomies. I can give the names of 2 docs in the North Austin/Round Rock area that do a good job with vasectomies, and could probably come up with 4 more names in the Greater Austin area within 48 hours.) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Vasectomy
If you don't want to father a child but you want to have sexual intercourse with a woman, a vasectomy is a really great line of defense there. (A number of the guys that I know who have decided hey, they really don't want to father children, or don't want to father any *more* children, have had vasectomies. I can give the names of 2 docs in the North Austin/Round Rock area that do a good job with vasectomies, and could probably come up with 4 more names in the Greater Austin area within 48 hours.) Julia I didn't sayIi didn't want to ever want to father a child, Julia, just not at that time in my life. Once it became inevitable I did the honorable thing, just like my father before me. (After his fourth child my father did get a vasectomy, but it didn't work. For some reason the men in my family are extremely fertile.~} I don't regret the birth of either of my sons. I am single now, but if I met the right woman and she wanted to have a child, I would not rule it out. I have no right to tell a woman what to do with her body. Jon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Fair Trade
At 03:30 PM Tuesday 9/16/2008, Jon Louis Mann wrote: I said that we can't feed the world and dispense with agribusiness, but i hope we can dispense make food production more productive and less destructive to habitats. we are approaching 7 billion people and little sign of reaching zpg. So what selection criteria do you suggest be used? And again, are you volunteering to be first? First for what; are you suggesting that it's all my fault and I should commit suicide? No, it's just what I ask _everybody_ who suggests that approaching 7 billion (or whatever the current world population happens to be) is too many people: where _specifically_ do you suggest that the needed reductions be made, and if you personally are not at the head of that list, how do you justify putting anyone else ahead of you? . . . ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Vasectomy
At 04:17 PM Tuesday 9/16/2008, Jon Louis Mann wrote: I am single now, but if I met the right woman and she wanted to have a child, I would not rule it out. Isn't that pretty much how we got to have approaching 7 billion people in the world? . . . ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Vasectomy
Ronn! Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] Isn't that pretty much how we got to have approaching 7 billion people in the world? Don't be silly, Ronn. It is all the people who have MORE children than Jon who are the real problem! ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Vasectomy
On 17/09/2008, at 8:14 AM, Ronn! Blankenship wrote: At 04:17 PM Tuesday 9/16/2008, Jon Louis Mann wrote: I am single now, but if I met the right woman and she wanted to have a child, I would not rule it out. Isn't that pretty much how we got to have approaching 7 billion people in the world? It's not the first or second, it's the 4th, 5th, 6th and onwards, when infant mortality has plummetted and life expectancy soared. C. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Fair Trade
On 17/09/2008, at 8:05 AM, Ronn! Blankenship wrote: No, it's just what I ask _everybody_ who suggests that approaching 7 billion (or whatever the current world population happens to be) is too many people: where _specifically_ do you suggest that the needed reductions be made, and if you personally are not at the head of that list, how do you justify putting anyone else ahead of you? How about - let's try to lower the birth rate, rather than increase the death rate? Hmmm? As education and life expectancy and SoL increase, birth rate plummets. As has been pointed out, if we can raise living standards world-wide without the gross overconsumption of Australia or the US then we may be sustainable in the long run. Right now, we're not. C. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Fair Trade
On Sep 16, 2008, at 5:05 PM, Ronn! Blankenship wrote: No, it's just what I ask _everybody_ who suggests that approaching 7 billion (or whatever the current world population happens to be) is too many people: where _specifically_ do you suggest that the needed reductions be made, and if you personally are not at the head of that list, how do you justify putting anyone else ahead of you? . . . ronn! :) The fact that deciding which of the existing 6-7 billion should be allowed to live is an extremely thorny ethical and moral question (and one I wouldn't even begin to be qualified to answer) doesn't take away from the fact that a population of 6-7 billion is far in excess of what this planet appears to be able to support on a sustainable basis, nor does it address the problem that the moment anything improves on the supply side, the population immediately accelerates growth to more than wipe out those gains on the demand side. (In other words, saying it's a potentially insoluble problem doesn't make the problem go away.) (It also doesn't address the fact that certain subcultures within that population are deliberately breeding children at a greatly *accelerated* rate, specifically as a long-term strategy to promote their own ideologies by skewing the demographics and/or breeding loyal followers they can easily control later on. But that's a tangent to this discussion.) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Fair Trade
On Sep 16, 2008, at 5:31 PM, Charlie Bell wrote: On 17/09/2008, at 8:05 AM, Ronn! Blankenship wrote: No, it's just what I ask _everybody_ who suggests that approaching 7 billion (or whatever the current world population happens to be) is too many people: where _specifically_ do you suggest that the needed reductions be made, and if you personally are not at the head of that list, how do you justify putting anyone else ahead of you? How about - let's try to lower the birth rate, rather than increase the death rate? Hmmm? As education and life expectancy and SoL increase, birth rate plummets. As has been pointed out, if we can raise living standards world-wide without the gross overconsumption of Australia or the US then we may be sustainable in the long run. Right now, we're not. C. Deciding who does and does not get to have children (or deciding how many they're allowed to have) is in the same class of problems as deciding who lives or who dies. Neither one is a problem I'd want to be responsible for trying to solve in detail. (There is a third option, if viable enough habitats can be created elsewhere in the solar system -- ::eyes Mars enviously:: -- but the current overpopulation problem makes it difficult or even impossible to consider that, because too much of our resources are going into barely keeping up with the demand for feeding and housing and transporting the 6-7 billion who are already here.) And likewise, the fact that deciding who does and who doesn't live, or have kids, is a tough moral question, doesn't change the fact that the overpopulation and accelerating population growth are problems worth attempting to solve. I'd really like to live on an Earth whose population is limited to about 2-3 billion. :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Vasectomy
Julia wrote: If you don't want to father a child but you want to have sexual intercourse with a woman, a vasectomy is a really great line of defense there. Then there are guys who act like it's emasculating. Me? The second my wife and I decided we were done having children, I was at the urologist's making an appointment. It was one of the smarter decisions I've made in my life, given that we are the Amazing Fertile Sharkeys. :-p Jim Rambo sperm Maru Motor Home You can take it with you! Click here for a luxurious new motor home and travel in style! http://tagline.excite.com/fc/JkJQPTgKDEVLxSLoKzSHaKd7bMfGIkEeJBN4ULArnIheiztMDBLVqE/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Vasectomy
On Tue, 16 Sep 2008, John Williams wrote: Ronn! Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] Isn't that pretty much how we got to have approaching 7 billion people in the world? Don't be silly, Ronn. It is all the people who have MORE children than Jon who are the real problem! He had 2. I have 3. Can I really help that the second pregnancy was with *twins*? (And no, there were no fertility drugs or any other assistive reproductive techology things involved, I just have enthusiastic ovaries.) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Vasectomy
On Tue, 16 Sep 2008, Jim Sharkey wrote: Julia wrote: If you don't want to father a child but you want to have sexual intercourse with a woman, a vasectomy is a really great line of defense there. Then there are guys who act like it's emasculating. Me? The second my wife and I decided we were done having children, I was at the urologist's making an appointment. It was one of the smarter decisions I've made in my life, given that we are the Amazing Fertile Sharkeys. :-p Jim Rambo sperm Maru There are women in their 20s who hear that my husband got a vasectomy because he didn't want to subject me to another pregnancy and that it wasn't fair to ask me to get surgically sterilized when it was going to just be a much easier procedure on him, and the reactions range from, Wow, you're a really great husband to (and I'm not kidding!) Wow, you did that for her, that's HOT! Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Vasectomy
Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] He had 2. I have 3. The solution is simple. He must have more children! We need a new regulation. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Vasectomy
Then there are guys who act like it's emasculating. Me? The second my wife and I decided we were done having children, I was at the urologist's making an appointment. It was one of the smarter decisions I've made in my life, given that we are the Amazing Fertile Sharkeys. :-p Jim Rambo sperm Maru There are women in their 20s who hear that my husband got a vasectomy because he didn't want to subject me to another pregnancy and that it wasn't fair to ask me to get surgically sterilized when it was going to just be a much easier procedure on him, and the reactions range from, Wow, you're a really great husband to (and I'm not kidding!) Wow, you did that for her, that's HOT! Julia not only that, but it is possible to have a vasectomy reversed if you remarry, or change your mind. that option is not available to a women.. jon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Vasectomy
On Tue, 16 Sep 2008, John Williams wrote: Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] He had 2. I have 3. The solution is simple. He must have more children! We need a new regulation. No, I just think we need an exemption for 2nd pregnancies having more than 1 baby. After all, I was pregnant only twice. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Vasectomy
It is all the people who have MORE children than Jon who are the real problem! He had 2. I have 3. Can I really help that the second pregnancy was with *twins*? (And no, there were no fertility drugs or any other assistive reproductive technology things involved, I just have enthusiastic ovaries.) Julia think of it as evolution in action... I also had two wives. the first one died, and the second is still fertile and will probably remarry and have a whole passel of brats!~) both my parents were the youngest of nine. of their five offspring only i reproduced twice (i think), my sisters and one brother had one each, the other brother didn't reproduce, so we are spiraling down... jon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Vasectomy
On Tue, 16 Sep 2008, Jon Louis Mann wrote: It is all the people who have MORE children than Jon who are the real problem! He had 2. I have 3. Can I really help that the second pregnancy was with *twins*? (And no, there were no fertility drugs or any other assistive reproductive technology things involved, I just have enthusiastic ovaries.) Julia think of it as evolution in action... I also had two wives. the first one died, and the second is still fertile and will probably remarry and have a whole passel of brats!~) both my parents were the youngest of nine. of their five offspring only i reproduced twice (i think), my sisters and one brother had one each, the other brother didn't reproduce, so we are spiraling down... jon Yeah. My brother-in-law hasn't reproduced, to the best of my knowledge, so my husband and I have replaced ourselves, plus him. (And the gender balance works out that way, as well!) But, at this point, I really don't want anyone who's not shooting blanks anywhere near my enthusiastic ovaries. The last thing I need now is triplets Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
ZPG
So what selection criteria do you suggest be used? And again, are you volunteering to be first? First for what; are you suggesting that it's all my fault and I should commit suicide? No, it's just what I ask _everybody_ who suggests that approaching 7 billion (or whatever the current world population happens to be) is too many people: where _specifically_ do you suggest that the needed reductions be made, and if you personally are not at the head of that list, how do you justify putting anyone else ahead of you? . . . ronn! just because i make the observation that there are too many people on the planet doesn't mean it is entirely my responsibility to correct the problem, ronn, any more than it is my responsibility to redistribute the wealth by giving away my possessions. all i can do is live a sustainable lifestyle as much as i can, try not to spread my seed, or tell anyone else what they MUST do with their body if i knock them up. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Regulation
The solution is simple. He must have more children! We need a new regulation. right john, just like the economic policies mc cain wants to continue without, despite the mess the bush created. jon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Fertility
at this point, I really don't want anyone who's not shooting blanks anywhere near my enthusiastic ovaries. The last thing I need now is triplets Julia i'll stay away from you then. jon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
