Re: Nomenclature (was) Chemicals R Us
Ronn! Blankenship wrote: I agree with you. Organic chemistry is the chemistry of carbon compounds. Though usually with the omission of most metal carbonates, the chemistry of which is usually covered in the section on inorganic chemistry. That's how *I* teach it in colleges, anyway. ;) I think that a more accurate definition is that Organic chemistry is the chemistry of carbon compounds where carbon has a covalent bond with hydrogen, or to a replacement of hydrogen. This would include, frex, tetrachloromethane, but not carbon disulfide. Alberto 'definitions are evil, why they must be eradicated' Monteiro ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Nomenclature (was) Chemicals R Us
On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 3:46 AM, Alberto Monteiro albm...@centroin.com.brwrote: I think that a more accurate definition is that Organic chemistry is the chemistry of carbon compounds where carbon has a covalent bond with hydrogen, or to a replacement of hydrogen. Organic gardening bugs me. Sounds like the opposite would be inorganic gardening. Nick ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Nomenclature (was) Chemicals R Us
On Nov 19, 2009, at 8:25 AM, Nick Arnett wrote: On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 3:46 AM, Alberto Monteiro albm...@centroin.com.br wrote: I think that a more accurate definition is that Organic chemistry is the chemistry of carbon compounds where carbon has a covalent bond with hydrogen, or to a replacement of hydrogen. Organic gardening bugs me. Sounds like the opposite would be inorganic gardening. What, you mean using Nitrogen fertilizer? Dave ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
RE: Nomenclature (was) Chemicals R Us
From: brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com [mailto:brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com] On Behalf Of Nick Arnett Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 10:26 AM To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion Subject: Re: Nomenclature (was) Chemicals R Us Organic gardening bugs me. Sounds like the opposite would be inorganic gardening. Like organic food...as though non-organic tomatoes were carbon free. I like to think of it as Amish gardening...getting back to the 19th century. Unfortunately, there is a lot of that going around. Dan M. ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Nomenclature (was) Chemicals R Us
On Nov 19, 2009, at 2:09 PM, Dan M wrote: Behalf Of Nick Arnett Organic gardening bugs me. Sounds like the opposite would be inorganic gardening. Like organic food...as though non-organic tomatoes were carbon free. I like to think of it as Amish gardening...getting back to the 19th century. Unfortunately, there is a lot of that going around. The unfortunately in your comment reminded me of this: http://www.garden-soil.com/garden-soil-organic-1.html Especially: Most experienced plantsmen and soil specialists today occupy a middle ground, using organic and chemical materials as seems best suited to the needs of a particular soil, plant, or circumstance. Unfortunately, too many people are absolutists, as the article notes: But those who are at the extremes - violently pro-organic or anti-organic - press their arguments so vehemently as to almost drown out the moderates. The answer, as in so many things in life is, it depends. Dave ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Chemicals R Us
Alberto Monteiro albm...@centroin.com.br wrote: Deborah Harrell quoted: A new report from the Danish Department of Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (DEFRA), highlights the critical risks facing toddlers from gender bending chemicals in everyday products. Chemicals like phthalates (found in PVC and fragrances), In fact, phthalates are found in PET, not PVC. PVC is polyvinylchlorine, the polymer of CH2=CHCl, PET is polyethyleneterephthalate, the copolymer of terephthalic acid and ethyleneglycol (with maybe some i/y changed - in Portuguese, there's no such distinction). Yes, the correct chemical is listed in the other article. Although IIRC, PVC production is linked to cancer of some sort, and that was suspected in the 50s by industry doctors (Dow? Monsanto? I can't remember what I posted exactly on that several years ago); it was not made public for a number of years. ...Fewer boys are being born. That's great news! The world needs less boys and more girls. Excess boys cause wars. wry Nevertheless, it might be a problem if we wind up with a passle of hermaprodites (who are usually sterile)...Could make an interesting SF story, however. I think we will find that miniscule quantities of multiple organic compounds adversely affect humans in numerous ways. I think it was established that benzene is carninogen. But I am not aware that phthalates, just because they are aromatic, are harmful. In fact, a few aminoacids are aromatic. ? So you don't find research regarding various petroleum compounds legitimate? We are well aware in the medical field of multiple adverse effects of various organic - in the sense of petroleum/industry-related - chemicals on healthe. And no, I who at one point could fill an entire blackboard with the Krebs cycle and multiple connecting metabolic pathwaysincluding peptide synthesis, had _no idea_ that some amino acids (not to mention hormones etc.) were aromatic... hey, really!!! Debbi Don't Want No Tryptophan Or Steroids Maru ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Nomenclature (was) Chemicals R Us
From: Alberto Monteiro albm...@centroin.com.br skippage I think it was established that benzene is carninogen. But I am not aware that phthalates, just because they are aromatic, are harmful. In fact, a few aminoacids are aromatic. I'll bet there's a difference of wording -- 'organic chemistry' here primarily refers to petrochemicals; 'biochemistry' refers to life-related chemicals. This is an incorrect terminology in my opinion, but I can't change what is taught in colleges... Debbi Words, Words - What Is Brain?! Maru :) ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Chemicals R Us
Deborah Harrell wrote: A new report from the Danish Department of Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (DEFRA), highlights the critical risks facing toddlers from gender bending chemicals in everyday products. Chemicals like phthalates (found in PVC and fragrances), In fact, phthalates are found in PET, not PVC. PVC is polyvinylchlorine, the polymer of CH2=CHCl, PET is polyethyleneterephthalate, the copolymer of terephthalic acid and ethyleneglycol (with maybe some i/y changed - in Portuguese, there's no such distinction). Yes, the correct chemical is listed in the other article. Although IIRC, PVC production is linked to cancer of some sort, and that was suspected in the 50s by industry doctors (Dow? Monsanto? I can't remember what I posted exactly on that several years ago); it was not made public for a number of years. I hate those AFTs. Phthalates are not Terephthalates; and phthalates are used in addition to PVC (that's what found in means). So, the original text was correct, and my English skills deficient :-( But if PVC is carcinogen than we could suffer the same doom the lead-piped romans suffered... ...Fewer boys are being born. That's great news! The world needs less boys and more girls. Excess boys cause wars. wry Nevertheless, it might be a problem if we wind up with a passle of hermaprodites (who are usually sterile)...Could make an interesting SF story, however. Probably society would adapt to make female-female reproduction possible. We would end up in a Lesbian World, not much unlike Brin's Stratos. I think it was established that benzene is carninogen. But I am not aware that phthalates, just because they are aromatic, are harmful. In fact, a few aminoacids are aromatic. ? So you don't find research regarding various petroleum compounds legitimate? We are well aware in the medical field of multiple adverse effects of various organic - in the sense of petroleum/industry-related - chemicals on healthe. What? Nothing that the oil industry produces is harmful! :-P And no, I who at one point could fill an entire blackboard with the Krebs cycle and multiple connecting metabolic pathways including peptide synthesis, had _no idea_ that some amino acids (not to mention hormones etc.) were aromatic... hey, really!!! Sometimes we can learn just by having fun editing Chemboxes in Wikipedia :-) Alberto Monteiro aka albmont ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Nomenclature (was) Chemicals R Us
At 11:58 AM Wednesday 11/18/2009, Deborah Harrell wrote: I'll bet there's a difference of wording -- 'organic chemistry' here primarily refers to petrochemicals; 'biochemistry' refers to life-related chemicals. This is an incorrect terminology in my opinion, but I can't change what is taught in colleges... Debbi Words, Words - What Is Brain?! Maru :) I agree with you. Organic chemistry is the chemistry of carbon compounds. Though usually with the omission of most metal carbonates, the chemistry of which is usually covered in the section on inorganic chemistry. That's how *I* teach it in colleges, anyway. ;) Just Don't Ask An Astrophysicist To Define Metals 'Cuz He'll Include Carbon As One Maru . . . ronn! :) ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Chemicals R Us
At 01:36 PM Wednesday 11/18/2009, Alberto Monteiro wrote: But if PVC is carcinogen than we could suffer the same doom the lead-piped romans suffered... At least we won't go plumb crazy. You Can Lead A Horse To Water But A Pencil Has To Be Lead Maru . . . ronn! :) ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Chemicals R Us
At 11:28 AM Wednesday 11/18/2009, Deborah Harrell wrote: And no, I who at one point could fill an entire blackboard with the Krebs cycle and multiple connecting metabolic pathwaysincluding peptide synthesis, had _no idea_ that some amino acids (not to mention hormones etc.) were aromatic... I did, even though on those occasions I need to refer to the Krebs cycle I use a chart. hey, really!!! Debbi Don't Want No Tryptophan Or Steroids Maru So, no turkey next Thursday, then? . . . ronn! :) ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Nomenclature (was) Chemicals R Us
On 11/18/2009 7:00:59 PM, Ronn! Blankenship (ronn_blankens...@bellsouth.net) wrote: At 11:58 AM Wednesday 11/18/2009, Deborah Harrell wrote: I'll bet there's a difference of wording -- 'organic chemistry' here primarily refers to petrochemicals; 'biochemistry' refers to life-related chemicals. This is an incorrect terminology in my opinion, but I can't change what is taught in colleges... Debbi Words, Words - What Is Brain?! Maru :) I agree with you. Organic chemistry is the chemistry of carbon compounds. Though usually with the omission of most metal carbonates, the chemistry of which is usually covered in the section on inorganic chemistry. That's how *I* teach it in colleges, anyway. ;) Just Don't Ask An Astrophysicist To Define Metals 'Cuz He'll Include Carbon As One Maru Well why not? Calcium is a metal too isnt it? xponent Common Sense Is Worth Little Without Knowledge Maru rob ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Nomenclature (was) Chemicals R Us
On Nov 18, 2009, at 8:09 PM, Rceeberger wrote: On 11/18/2009 7:00:59 PM, Ronn! Blankenship (ronn_blankens...@bellsouth.net ) wrote: At 11:58 AM Wednesday 11/18/2009, Deborah Harrell wrote: I'll bet there's a difference of wording -- 'organic chemistry' here primarily refers to petrochemicals; 'biochemistry' refers to life-related chemicals. This is an incorrect terminology in my opinion, but I can't change what is taught in colleges... Debbi Words, Words - What Is Brain?! Maru :) I agree with you. Organic chemistry is the chemistry of carbon compounds. Though usually with the omission of most metal carbonates, the chemistry of which is usually covered in the section on inorganic chemistry. That's how *I* teach it in colleges, anyway. ;) Just Don't Ask An Astrophysicist To Define Metals 'Cuz He'll Include Carbon As One Maru Well why not? Calcium is a metal too isnt it? xponent Common Sense Is Worth Little Without Knowledge Maru rob So is silicon .. well, sort of, anyway .. A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. -- attributed to Lazarus Long by Robert A. Heinlein ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Chemicals R Us
I posted an article several years ago about the increase in hermaphrodite polar bears, which researchers thought related to the increased concentration of estrogenic chemicals. 'So what?' This: http://blogs.webmd.com/health-ehome/2009/11/chemicals-in-everyday-products-turning.html?ecd=wnl_day_111409 A new report from the Danish Department of Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (DEFRA), highlights the critical risks facing toddlers from gender bending chemicals in everyday products. Chemicals like phthalates (found in PVC and fragrances), parabens (found in lotions and sunscreens), and pesticides are increasingly being linked to hormone disruption - and two year olds have more in their blood than any previous generations. ...Today's boys have less sperm. Sperm counts are falling so fast that young men are about half as fertile as their fathers... ...Fewer boys are being born. According to coverage of the report in the Telegraph, A Canadian Indian community living on ancestral lands at the eastern tip of Lake Huron, hemmed in by one of the biggest agglomerations of chemical factories on earth, gives birth to twice as many girls as boys. It's the same around Seveso in Italy, contaminated with dioxins from a notorious accident in the 1970s, and among Russian pesticide workers. And there's more evidence from places as far apart as Israel and Taiwan, Brazil and the Arctic. Boys' unmentionables are getting smaller. Scientists at the University of Rochester in New York discovered that boys born to women exposed to phthalates had smaller penises and other feminization of the genitals... ... What's new about this report is the emphasis on chemical cocktails - or the fact that these chemicals mixed together are far worse than they are alone... This is a 2006 technical article from The Endocrine Society(NIH sponsored): http://endo.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/147/6/s25 ...A VARIETY OF structurally diverse natural and synthetic chemicals, classified as endocrine-disrupting chemicals (EDCs), have been reported to interfere with the endocrine system and ultimately disturb the normal function of tissues and organs, particularly those of the reproductive tract. Given their physicochemical differences and distinct biological effects, it is not surprising that a variety of mechanisms are used by EDCs to influence the endocrine system. Advances in our understanding of these mechanisms have been aided by increased public interest in the health effects of EDCs and the development of new tools and models for studying these compounds. Diethylstilbestrol (DES), genistein (Gen), di(n-butyl) phthalate (DBP), and methoxyacetic acid (MAA) are four compounds (Fig. 1) that are discussed here in an effort to illustrate some of the unique mechanisms of action used by EDCs to modulate endocrine system function... ...Phthalate esters are used extensively as plasticizers and stabilizers in a variety of plastics and consumer goods. Exposure to phthalates through ingestion, inhalation, and dermal absorption occurs throughout life (51). Select phthalate esters, including DBP, adversely affect the male rat reproductive tract after either prenatal or postnatal exposure. These adverse reproductive tract effects, which include disrupted epididymal development, hypospadias, cryptorchidism, multinucleated gonocytes, and reduced fertility, are a result of the antiandrogenic effects of some phthalate esters (52). Interestingly, the reproductive tract abnormalities present in DBP-exposed rats are similar to those that occur in humans with testicular dysgenesis syndrome, which is believed to result from altered fetal development as a result of genetic mutations and/or pharmacological or environmental disruptions (53). Given the widespread use of phthalate esters, a potential role for DBP in testicular dysgenesis is plausible (51, 55). Humans are exposed to more DBP than any other phthalate ester, with maximal DBP exposure reaching 113 µg/kg·d (56, 57). Interestingly, these same studies showed that women of childbearing age have the highest estimated DBP exposures. However, these levels are considerably lower than the minimal reported dose of DBP necessary to alter male reproductive tract development of more than 50 mg/kg·d (52)... ...MAA is the major metabolite of ethylene glycol monomethyl ether (EGME), an industrial solvent commonly used in varnishes, paints, dyes, and fuel additives (65). Exposure to EGME and MAA results in toxic reproductive effects in both animals and humans (66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71). Occupational exposure to both EGME and MAA has been associated with subfertility, spontaneous abortion, and reduced sperm counts (70, 72, 73, 74). The toxic effects of MAA have prompted investigations into the cellular and molecular actions of MAA that have uncovered unique actions for an EDC... ...DES, Gen, DBP, and MAA are four compounds described herein that illustrate the
