Re: Latest pre-Columbus exploration of America
Jon Gabriel wrote: He wanted to know how people could actually be dumb enough to believe that, among other things, a large image of a human face existed on the surface of Mars. Of course it no longer exists. There was time enough to blow it off after the first picture was taken. Those stinky martians don't want anybody poking around their ratholes Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Latest pre-Columbus exploration of America
Deborah Harrell wrote: --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Irishman? Maddog was Welsh! If you mean Maddoc he was Welsh, not Irish. Maddog was a nickname corruption. Brave His Soul, I think is the name of the book easiest to find about him and the Welsh speaking Indians. More likely true than false, but totally irrelivant until Spielberg make a movie from the tale. And I thought it was from the Madeleine L'Engle story (can't recall the title, but it's with the same family as _A Swiftly Tilting Planet_. I think. Or else the Austins.) _A Swiftly Tilting Planet_ is the one. _Meet the Austins_ was nothing like that. :) Neither were any of the others specifically about the Austins, as opposed to the Murrays and O'Keefes. (And I don't remember any of the Austins actually meeting up with any Murrays or O'Keefes, but both Adam Eddington and Zachary Gray did.) Oh, and Debbi, do you know in which book we meet Suzy's children? :) I'm interested in the book that William mentions. William, can you provide the name of the author off the top of your head? Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Latest pre-Columbus exploration of America
At 05:44 PM 1/14/03 -0500, Jon Gabriel wrote: From: Miller, Jeffrey [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Latest pre-Columbus exploration of America Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:26:30 -0800 -Original Message- From: Alberto Monteiro [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 01:16 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Latest pre-Columbus exploration of America William T Goodall wrote: So does that mean that the US Moon landings might end up *Might* end up? getting disregarded in some future history books because it's somebody else who eventually establishes a permanent manned presence there? The longer it takes to get back there, the more likely it seems that the original Moon landings were fakes, Hollywood movies :-) *Likely*? They were TOTALLY staged ;) -j- A few months ago ex-Brinneller (...at least I think he's no longer here...) Adrian Hon posted a rather angry note to the Culture list about the extreme stupidity of the visitors to his website's forums. He wanted to know how people could actually be dumb enough to believe that, among other things, a large image of a human face existed on the surface of Mars. That's nothing compared to what the secret MGS photos showed on the backside . . . --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Latest pre-Columbus exploration of America
Alberto Monteiro wrote: Jon Gabriel wrote: He wanted to know how people could actually be dumb enough to believe that, among other things, a large image of a human face existed on the surface of Mars. Of course it no longer exists. There was time enough to blow it off after the first picture was taken. Those stinky martians don't want anybody poking around their ratholes Maybe it just pulled a ski mask on. Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Latest pre-Columbus exploration of America
Doug Pensinger wrote: Alberto Monteiro wrote: Jon Gabriel wrote: He wanted to know how people could actually be dumb enough to believe that, among other things, a large image of a human face existed on the surface of Mars. Of course it no longer exists. There was time enough to blow it off after the first picture was taken. Those stinky martians don't want anybody poking around their ratholes Maybe it just pulled a ski mask on. Or (getting back to an earlier thread), maybe they pulled on pantyhose. (Over the head, like a bank robber, not the usual way.) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Latest pre-Columbus exploration of America
In a message dated 1/14/03 9:08:36 AM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Gavin Menzies claims that a massive Chinese fleet of huge junks and support ships made a two-year circumnavigation of the globe, with extensive exploration of the Americas, nearly a century before Magellan and Columbus. The Chinese did for a time make bigger ships than what was being made in Europe at the same time. [Just as in the Japanese, for a short time, made better guns than the Europeans.] But all Chinese exploration was done by the eunuchs. And the emperor would never have given them the power that would come from colonization. The giant junks were left to rot and exploration was abandoned. So it really doesn't matter. Pity they didn't bump into any Vikings. William Taylor --- Read any W. H. McNiel lately? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Latest pre-Columbus exploration of America
Miller, Jeffrey wrote: http://www.cnn.com/2003/SHOWBIZ/books/01/13/1421/index.html http://www.1421.tv/ NEW YORK (CNN) -- In his new book, 1421: The Year China Discovered America (William Morrow) http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0060537639/eogan-20 Gavin Menzies claims that a massive Chinese fleet of huge junks and support ships made a two-year circumnavigation of the globe, with extensive exploration of the Americas, nearly a century before Magellan and Columbus. I thought that was fairly common knowledge -- not to mention that the Vikings made it to the New World even earlier. According to Jared Diamond's GUNS, GERMS, AND STEEL, the Vikings routinely visited the New World between about 1000 and 1350, and even planted the Vinland colony in Newfoundland, which survived there for a while, until the Little Ice Age turned the climate to crap. The voyages of the Vikings, Chinese, and Amerigo Vespucci are all very impressive, but they all *quit going* after a while, kinda like the US and the Moon. ;-) Columbus' trip was different, because after he arrived, European presence in the New World became permanent, and never stopped. Columbus' timing was just better. __ Steve Sloan . Huntsville, Alabama = [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brin-L list pages .. http://www.brin-l.org Chmeee's 3D Objects http://www.sloan3d.com/chmeee 3D and Drawing Galleries .. http://www.sloansteady.com Software Science Fiction, Science, and Computer Links Science fiction scans . http://www.sloan3d.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Latest pre-Columbus exploration of America
Pity they didn't bump into any Vikings. That's about a 500 year difference in time. Not possible (unless they ran into some Scandinavians of 1421...who were mostly Christians so it would not have been quite so spectacular...) Sorry, the repeating crossbow vs. the Daneaxe just not possible... Damon. Damon Agretto [EMAIL PROTECTED] Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum. http://www.geocities.com/garrand.geo/index.html Now Building: Italeri's Merkava ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Latest pre-Columbus exploration of America
-Original Message- From: Steve Sloan II [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 08:58 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Latest pre-Columbus exploration of America Miller, Jeffrey wrote: http://www.cnn.com/2003/SHOWBIZ/books/01/13/1421/index.html http://www.1421.tv/ NEW YORK (CNN) -- In his new book, 1421: The Year China Discovered America (William Morrow) http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0060537639/eogan-20 Gavin Menzies claims that a massive Chinese fleet of huge junks and support ships made a two-year circumnavigation of the globe, with extensive exploration of the Americas, nearly a century before Magellan and Columbus. I thought that was fairly common knowledge Yup. Its just suddenly getting more play because of this new book, which is actually more about the Chinese exploration of the North American western coastline. Nothing terribly new is presented (if you follow such wacky hollow/secret history exploration lore) other than the gathering together in one slickly packaged book the various details, facts, and theories. Columbus' trip was different, because after he arrived, European presence in the New World became permanent, and never stopped. Columbus' timing was just better. Columbus explored in a time period and for a patron that would financially support continued exploration, to be sure. -j- ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Latest pre-Columbus exploration of America
-Original Message- From: Damon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 09:51 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Latest pre-Columbus exploration of America Pity they didn't bump into any Vikings. That's about a 500 year difference in time. Actually more like 75-100, but who's counting? ;) Sorry, the repeating crossbow vs. the Daneaxe just not possible... Sure it is. You've obviously never played Civilization 3: Play The World ;) -jeffrey hooked on SimCity 4 right now miller- ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Latest pre-Columbus exploration of America
Actually more like 75-100, but who's counting? ;) Wait...how is it 75-100? The great period of the Vikings ended around 1100 but really started to die down some time before that. Unless you mean Viking=Scandinavian...which is WRONG! The term Viking refers to those usually from Scandinavia that specifically engage in piracy and raiding. IIRC the word originally meant pirate. Sure it is. You've obviously never played Civilization 3: Play The World ;) Actually I HAVE. Try rifle vs. Hoplite for a better comparison! Damon. Damon Agretto [EMAIL PROTECTED] Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum. http://www.geocities.com/garrand.geo/index.html Now Building: Italeri's Merkava ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Latest pre-Columbus exploration of America
on 14/1/03 4:58 pm, Steve Sloan II at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The voyages of the Vikings, Chinese, and Amerigo Vespucci are all very impressive, but they all *quit going* after a while, kinda like the US and the Moon. ;-) Columbus' trip was different, because after he arrived, European presence in the New World became permanent, and never stopped. Columbus' timing was just better. So does that mean that the US Moon landings might end up getting disregarded in some future history books because it's somebody else who eventually establishes a permanent manned presence there? -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ If you listen to a UNIX shell, can you hear the C? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Latest pre-Columbus exploration of America
Depends on your definition of great Viking period. My definition is SPECIFICALLY the period of Nordic expansion, or around 793 to 1100. The Scandinavian Crusades after this period more rightly belong to the general period of European Expansion as much of the Scandinavian world was becoming integrated into the larger European civilization of the High Middle Ages. Damon. Damon Agretto [EMAIL PROTECTED] Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum. http://www.geocities.com/garrand.geo/index.html Now Building: Italeri's Merkava ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Latest pre-Columbus exploration of America
Jeffrey Miller wrote: http://www.cnn.com/2003/SHOWBIZ/books/01/13/1421/index.html http://www.1421.tv/ NEW YORK (CNN) -- In his new book, 1421: The Year China Discovered America (William Morrow)[http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0060537639/eogan-20], Gavin Menzies claims that a massive Chinese fleet of huge junks and support ships made a two-year circumnavigation of the globe, with extensive exploration of the Americas, nearly a century before Magellan and Columbus. And four centuries after the Norse? Reggie Bautista Not to Mention Legends of an Irishman Maru _ MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Latest pre-Columbus exploration of America
-Original Message- From: Reggie Bautista [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 12:10 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Latest pre-Columbus exploration of America Jeffrey Miller wrote: http://www.cnn.com/2003/SHOWBIZ/books/01/13/1421/index.html http://www.1421.tv/ NEW YORK (CNN) -- In his new book, 1421: The Year China Discovered America (William Morrow)[http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0060537639/eog an-20], Gavin Menzies claims that a massive Chinese fleet of huge junks and support ships made a two-year circumnavigation of the globe, with extensive exploration of the Americas, nearly a century before Magellan and Columbus. And four centuries after the Norse? Yeah, but his claim is that they /really/ explored it, charted it, left records about it, and knowledge of such exploration drifted westward to influence early European explorers. -j- ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Latest pre-Columbus exploration of America
-Original Message- From: Alberto Monteiro [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 01:16 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Latest pre-Columbus exploration of America William T Goodall wrote: So does that mean that the US Moon landings might end up *Might* end up? getting disregarded in some future history books because it's somebody else who eventually establishes a permanent manned presence there? The longer it takes to get back there, the more likely it seems that the original Moon landings were fakes, Hollywood movies :-) *Likely*? They were TOTALLY staged ;) -j- ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Latest pre-Columbus exploration of America
From: Miller, Jeffrey [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Latest pre-Columbus exploration of America Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:26:30 -0800 -Original Message- From: Alberto Monteiro [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 01:16 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Latest pre-Columbus exploration of America William T Goodall wrote: So does that mean that the US Moon landings might end up *Might* end up? getting disregarded in some future history books because it's somebody else who eventually establishes a permanent manned presence there? The longer it takes to get back there, the more likely it seems that the original Moon landings were fakes, Hollywood movies :-) *Likely*? They were TOTALLY staged ;) -j- A few months ago ex-Brinneller (...at least I think he's no longer here...) Adrian Hon posted a rather angry note to the Culture list about the extreme stupidity of the visitors to his website's forums. He wanted to know how people could actually be dumb enough to believe that, among other things, a large image of a human face existed on the surface of Mars. It's enough to make you wonder how many people receive their science education from the National Enquirer. Jon GSV Woman Gives Birth To Winged Baby While Skydiving! _ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Latest pre-Columbus exploration of America
-Original Message- From: Jon Gabriel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 02:44 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Latest pre-Columbus exploration of America A few months ago ex-Brinneller (...at least I think he's no longer here...) Adrian Hon posted a rather angry note to the Culture list about the extreme stupidity of the visitors to his website's forums. He wanted to know how people could actually be dumb enough to believe that, among other things, a large image of a human face existed on the surface of Mars. I think that you can simultaneously be a skeptic -and- have a willingness to believe[0] without comprimising your intelligence. -jeffrey Bat Boy Join Up Against Bin Laden! miller- [0] willingness to believe being, in this case, having far more to do with Occam than Mulder.. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Latest pre-Columbus exploration of America
Jon said: It's enough to make you wonder how many people receive their science education from the National Enquirer. None, that's how many. Don't you know that America and all its artifacts are part of a gigantic hoax and anyone who claims otherwise is either a dupe or an actor? It's all filmed on a soundstage in the south of France. Rich, who almost convinced a conspiracy theory nut of this once upon a time. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Latest pre-Columbus exploration of America
In a message dated 1/14/2003 1:10:32 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Not to Mention Legends of an Irishman Maru Irishman? Maddog was Welsh! Gawd I shoulda kept my moth shut. My gosh look at what a one line silly can lead too. Swiss. Let's talk about the Swiss. Yup, that should be safe. Is there a legend of the ancient Swiss ever discovering America? William Taylor -- It's just like that Connections program. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Latest pre-Columbus exploration of America
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 03:17 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Latest pre-Columbus exploration of America In a message dated 1/14/2003 1:10:32 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Not to Mention Legends of an Irishman Maru Irishman? Maddog was Welsh! If you mean Maddoc he was Welsh, not Irish. Gawd I shoulda kept my moth shut. Yes, or stayed away from the ceder chest.. Is there a legend of the ancient Swiss ever discovering America? Outside of a Jane Auel novel? -j- ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Latest pre-Columbus exploration of America
In a message dated 1/14/2003 4:26:34 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Irishman? Maddog was Welsh! If you mean Maddoc he was Welsh, not Irish. Maddog was a nickname corruption. Brave His Soul, I think is the name of the book easiest to find about him and the Welsh speaking Indians. More likely true than false, but totally irrelivant until Spielberg make a movie from the tale. William Taylor - Mr. Harrison, get that Technicolor camera outta my face. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Latest pre-Columbus exploration of America
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Irishman? Maddog was Welsh! If you mean Maddoc he was Welsh, not Irish. Maddog was a nickname corruption. Brave His Soul, I think is the name of the book easiest to find about him and the Welsh speaking Indians. More likely true than false, but totally irrelivant until Spielberg make a movie from the tale. And I thought it was from the Madeleine L'Engle story (can't recall the title, but it's with the same family as _A Swiftly Tilting Planet_. I think. Or else the Austins.) I hadn't heard of the Chinese explorers tale, so was glad to read about it. Ghalad Or Galad - Etymologically 'Bright' Maru __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Latest pre-Columbus exploration of America
I wrote: Ghalad Or Galad - Etymologically 'Bright' Maru I think that should have been Galadh Or... Where's my Tolkien dictionary when I need it? :) Quenyanaly Challenged Maru __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Latest pre-Columbus exploration of America
on 14/1/03 4:58 pm, Steve Sloan II at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The voyages of the Vikings, Chinese, and Amerigo Vespucci are all very impressive, but they all *quit going* after a while, kinda like the US and the Moon. ;-) Columbus' trip was different, because after he arrived, European presence in the New World became permanent, and never stopped. Columbus' timing was just better. William T Goodall wrote: So does that mean that the US Moon landings might end up getting disregarded in some future history books because it's somebody else who eventually establishes a permanent manned presence there? Quite possibly. However, there's another big difference between Columbus and Apollo -- TV cameras. I remember reading somebody's comment about this very subject, a few years back: Columbus wasn't first -- he just had the best PR. The Vikings didn't advertise their discovery to the rest of Europe, Vespucci wasn't believed (IIRC), and I would imagine there was an Imperial edict in China to erase the court eunuchs' discovery from the records. Columbus had money for a big expedition from powerful patrons, and he used that position to promote his discovery across Europe. __ Steve Sloan . Huntsville, Alabama = [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brin-L list pages .. http://www.brin-l.org Chmeee's 3D Objects http://www.sloan3d.com/chmeee 3D and Drawing Galleries .. http://www.sloansteady.com Software Science Fiction, Science, and Computer Links Science fiction scans . http://www.sloan3d.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
