Re: McCain Positions
At 04:27 PM Monday 8/25/2008, John Williams wrote: I was writing about economics, not morality. But since you asked. I do not think it is fair for someone to take my money and give it to agricultural corporations. Who do you think it is fair for someone to take your money and give it to? . . . ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: McCain Positions
At 05:16 PM Monday 8/25/2008, Olin Elliott wrote: (I'm 45, born the same week Kennedy was shot) ObSF: And the week _Doctor Who_ premiered . . . . . . ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: McCain Positions
(I'm 45, born the same week Kennedy was shot) ObSF: And the week _Doctor Who_ premiered Thanks, Ronn. I never knew that. That's an anniversary worth celebrating. Olin - Original Message - From: Ronn! Blankenshipmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussionmailto:brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 3:13 AM Subject: Re: McCain Positions At 05:16 PM Monday 8/25/2008, Olin Elliott wrote: (I'm 45, born the same week Kennedy was shot) ObSF: And the week _Doctor Who_ premiered . . . . . . ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-lhttp://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: McCain Positions
From: Ronn! Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] Who do you think it is fair for someone to take your money and give it to? An efficient justice system, including courts and police. Road and bridge builders are okay. Military engaged in defending (in a narrow definition of defend) the country. Individuals with very low or no income. Surely not a corporation. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: McCain Positions
On Tue, 26 Aug 2008, Ronn! Blankenship wrote: At 05:16 PM Monday 8/25/2008, Olin Elliott wrote: (I'm 45, born the same week Kennedy was shot) ObSF: And the week _Doctor Who_ premiered . . . And the week C. S. Lewis died. Heck, he died on the *day* Kennedy was shot. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: McCain Positions
On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 10:17 AM, Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: On Tue, 26 Aug 2008, Ronn! Blankenship wrote: At 05:16 PM Monday 8/25/2008, Olin Elliott wrote: (I'm 45, born the same week Kennedy was shot) ObSF: And the week _Doctor Who_ premiered . . . And the week C. S. Lewis died. Heck, he died on the *day* Kennedy was shot. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l Aldous Huxley and don't forget JD Tippit john (who 45 years later still remembers where he was when he heard the news) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: McCain Positions
On the face of it, none of this sounds horrendous. As with any promise, the real deal is whether or not he can or will deliver. YMMV. It's all just a matter of trust. Exactly. And even if I did trust John McCain personally (which I don't), I wouldn't trust the Republican machinery that comes with him. Where does it say in there that he's gong to take the EPA and other regulatory agencies out of the hands of the people they're supposed to be regulating? And where does it say he's going to disavow the medieval world view of the Fundamentalist leaders he's been cozying up to? - Original Message - From: John Garciamailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussionmailto:brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 11:34 AM Subject: McCain Positions While I wait for a vendor to call me, I thought I'd post some McCain campaign stuff about science and the internet, taken from his website. What do you all think? *John McCain Would Place A Priority On Science And Technology Experience.*As President, John McCain will be committed to bringing talented men and women of science into the federal government. He will strive to ensure that Administration appointees across the government have adequate experience and understanding of science, technology and innovation in order to better serve the American people. *John McCain Will Preserve Consumer Freedoms. *John McCain will focus on policies that leave consumers free to access the content they choose; free to use the applications and services they choose; free to attach devices they choose, if they do not harm the network; and free to chose among broadband service providers. *John McCain Would Ensure That The Federal Government Led By Example.*Government can advance Americans' access to high speed Internet services by using it to better serve the people. Government services should be available online and government can better serve the American people by operating more efficiently through the use of technology, including videoconferencing and collaborative networks. For over a decade, John McCain has supported placing more government information online for the benefit of all of the American people. Since 2001, he has called for an Office of Electronic Government to set a strategic vision for implementation of electronic government *John McCain Would Support The Federal Government As An Innovator.* John McCain as president would push for a renewed emphasis on innovation through Cooperative Research and Development Agreements (CRADAs) where industry and government enter into public/private projects, sharing in the cost, benefiting from solving real problems, accelerating the application of technology in the government. This way the government is a leader of the technology revolution and not simply a beneficiary. On the face of it, none of this sounds horrendous. As with any promise, the real deal is whether or not he can or will deliver. YMMV. It's all just a matter of trust. john ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-lhttp://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: McCain Positions
On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 2:50 PM, Olin Elliott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On the face of it, none of this sounds horrendous. As with any promise, the real deal is whether or not he can or will deliver. YMMV. It's all just a matter of trust. Exactly. And even if I did trust John McCain personally (which I don't), I wouldn't trust the Republican machinery that comes with him. Where does it say in there that he's gong to take the EPA and other regulatory agencies out of the hands of the people they're supposed to be regulating? And where does it say he's going to disavow the medieval world view of the Fundamentalist leaders he's been cozying up to? snipped My point is that candidates can (and have) promised anything and everything, usually coached in careful language. We trust the candidate that we favor to fulfill those promises. When they do not, they have damaged our trust in them. Personally, I would prefer to see the 2000 McCain running, but he isn't. That guy went down in flames eight years ago. Also, I don't believe that the Republicans have a vision for the USA that is consistent with my values. The Democrats do have a vision that is more consistent with my values, but not 100%. john ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: McCain Positions
Olin wrote: And even if I did trust John McCain personally (which I don't), I wouldn't trust the Republican machinery that comes with him. I don't trust McCain, I don't trust Republican machinery, I don't trust Obama, and I don't trust Democrat's machinery. I do not trust politicians. Do you? I am generally in favor of politicians who demonstrate a record of less government spending and smaller government. Unfortunately, libertarians do not seem able to win many elections. I guess it has something to do with being difficult to win an election without pandering to special interests. I have not decided whether I will vote for McCain or Obama (I will not vote 3rd party since I do not want to waste my vote). One thing that I have not seen mentioned yet about the candidates is that McCain has a dramatically better voting record on free trade (one of few points of near universal agreement among economists is that subsidies and trade barriers are harmful): http://www.freetrade.org/congress?senator=84 http://www.freetrade.org/congress?senator=75 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: McCain Positions
John wrote: I am generally in favor of politicians who demonstrate a record of less government spending and smaller government. You mean like Clinton? Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: McCain Positions
From: Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] You mean like Clinton? I was not old enough to vote for Clinton, but retroactively, yes, I would vote for him :-) http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/downchart_gs.php?year=1970_2010view=1expand=units=pfy=fy09chart=F0-fedstack=1title= Are you suggesting Obama would do the same? I do not see any evidence of that. My guess is that Obama will budget less on defense than McCain, but Obama would budget more on entitlements. I don't think either candidate will reduce government spending, which is why I am having difficulty deciding. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: McCain Positions
From: Jon Louis Mann [EMAIL PROTECTED] are you suggesting that free trade is fair trade? I was writing about economics, not morality. But since you asked. I do not think it is fair for someone to take my money and give it to agricultural corporations. I do not think it is fair for someone to bar me from trading with a mutual consenting partner. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: McCain Positions
Actually, I didn't write that. I'm not sure who did. Free/fair trade, though important, I grant, is not usually an issue I get worked up about. Not sure who wrote the paragraph you qutoed, Olin - Original Message - From: Jon Louis Mannmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussionmailto:brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 1:50 PM Subject: McCain Positions Olin wrote: One thing that I have not seen mentioned yet about the candidates is that McCain has a dramatically better voting record on free trade (one of few points of near universal agreement among economists is that subsidies and trade barriers are harmful): are you suggesting that free trade is fair trade? jon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-lhttp://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: McCain Positions
I don't trust McCain, I don't trust Republican machinery, I don't trust Obama, and I don't trust Democrat's machinery. I do not trust politicians. Do you? Yes, I do trust some politicians -- and more to the point I trust some more than others. The cynical position that all politicians are bad or untrustworthy is no more reasonable than any other blanket indictment of a group. I think the record of administrations in my lifetime (I'm 45, born the same week Kennedy was shot) is pretty clear -- Democrats have proven themselves more responsible and trustworthy than Republicans by orders of magnitude. Not only on Democratic issues like civil rights and the environment (my number one issue) but also on what are supposed to be conservative issues like fiscal responsibility. Clinton was by far the most fiscally responsible president of my lifetime. And yes, I trusted Bill Clinton on the big issues -- not on everything certainly, not on his personal life for instance, and I recognize the faults of both Clintons, through I have enormous respect for both of them -- but I think its telling that Clinton got impeached in large part be cause he had enough respect for the rule of law to testify under oath for a deposition. He lied, true, but he lied about a question that never should have been within the scope of the investigation in the first place. The Bush gang won't go anywhere near an oath -- they avoid them like vampires avoid garlic. I trust the Democratic party several orders of magnitude more than I trust the Republicans, and I don't think that's just ideology -- I think it's the only valid empirical conclusion from the experience of the last forty years. Olin - Original Message - From: John Williamsmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussionmailto:brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 12:25 PM Subject: Re: McCain Positions Olin wrote: And even if I did trust John McCain personally (which I don't), I wouldn't trust the Republican machinery that comes with him. I don't trust McCain, I don't trust Republican machinery, I don't trust Obama, and I don't trust Democrat's machinery. I do not trust politicians. Do you? I am generally in favor of politicians who demonstrate a record of less government spending and smaller government. Unfortunately, libertarians do not seem able to win many elections. I guess it has something to do with being difficult to win an election without pandering to special interests. I have not decided whether I will vote for McCain or Obama (I will not vote 3rd party since I do not want to waste my vote). One thing that I have not seen mentioned yet about the candidates is that McCain has a dramatically better voting record on free trade (one of few points of near universal agreement among economists is that subsidies and trade barriers are harmful): http://www.freetrade.org/congress?senator=84http://www.freetrade.org/congress?senator=84 http://www.freetrade.org/congress?senator=75http://www.freetrade.org/congress?senator=75 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-lhttp://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: McCain Positions
John Garcia wrote: While I wait for a vendor to call me, I thought I'd post some McCain campaign stuff about science and the internet, taken from his website. What do you all think? *John McCain Would Place A Priority On Science And Technology Experience.*As President, John McCain will be committed to bringing talented men and women of science into the federal government. He will strive to ensure that Administration appointees across the government have adequate experience and understanding of science, technology and innovation in order to better serve the American people. This is one of the of the areas important to me, as a technology worker. There are, unfortunately, serious worries in McCain's stated technology policy (which was one of the last of his policies to be finalized and publicly posted, and yet should probably have been one of the first) and voting record. I shall refer you to the presentation of Dr. Lessig on the subject: http://lessig.org/blog/2008/08/me_on_mccain_on_technology.html (Dr. Lessig is someone that I have come to trust on the legal/political side of technology and intellectual property who knows what's at stake on the issues and is very eloquent when discussing them...) -- --Max Battcher-- http://www.worldmaker.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
