Re: [Callers] tips for teaching dancing the "other" role?

[Aahz via Callers]

On Fri, Jul 08, 2016, Mark Pigman via Callers wrote:
>
> I frequently roll swap with my partners on Californiatwirls and Petronella 
> twirls as well.
> 
> However, when I have had neighbors do a longlines partner swap, I have felt 
> abandoned as they discard my hand in the middleof the move. Is there a way 
> execute thisswap without interfering with whole-set connection of long lines?

That's an interesting question.  Never had that happen to me, but I
definitely understand what you're talking about given how icky it feels
when people aren't making an effort to hold hands.  Now that you mention
it, I'd counsel against anyone swapping during forward/back -- and if
they feel they "have to", the best point would be the last two beats with
a fast rollaway (when everyone's prepping for the next move, anyway).
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] tips for teaching dancing the "other" role?

[Mark Pigman via Callers]

I frequently roll swap with my partners on Californiatwirls and Petronella 
twirls as well.

However, when I have had neighbors do a longlines partner swap, I have felt 
abandoned as they discard my hand in the middleof the move.  Is there a way 
execute thisswap without interfering with whole-set connection of long lines?


List-Post: callers@lists.sharedweight.net
Date:Tue, 5 Jul 2016 18:57:33 -0400
From: Alexandra Deis-Lauby via Callers

>Also, if you find you are teaching to peoplewho are doing well with both
>roles,and want to learn when they can switch within a dance other than in
>aswing, the easiest places are in Long lines if one is across from your
>partner,(do like a hole-in-the wall gypsy), in Long lines, if one is next
>toyour partner (add a roll away) and then adding or subtracting a 1/2 turn
>in anallemande or do si do w/ partner.


Mark PigmanTacoma, WA

Re: [Callers] tips for teaching dancing the "other" role?

[Mark Pigman via Callers]

Ilove using role-neutral swings, and as Maia suggested, I think they are 
afabulous teaching tool to correct awkward swings during a lesson.  However, I 
have observed stress indicatorsfrom some dancers newish to role swapping when I 
have tried using a neutralswing.  It seems as though having an 
asymmetricalswing hold indicates that both parties are in agreement as to who 
will end upwhere at the end of a swing.  Even forregular role swappers, using a 
neutral swing delays the role decisionconcurrence from the beginning of the 
swing to the end, possibly making peoplelate to the next move.

Mark Pigman

Tacoma,WA


 
> Maia McCormick via Callers callers at lists.sharedweight.net 
>Tue Jul 5 14:06:36 PDT 2016>But, I emphasize that you're both walking 
>(orbuzz-stepping) *forward*,
>roughlyaiming at a point over your partner's shoulder. In fact, *the
>footworkfor a swing for both roles is exactly the same!!!* A good way to
>emphasizethis might be to have participants do a gender-neutral swing
>(e.g.right hand on shoulder blade, left hand clasped with partner above
>theheads) and then change the hand position into your classic ballroom
>swing(perhaps even trying out ballroom position with person A leading,
>thenwith person B leading) and noting how the footwork stays the same.

Re: [Callers] tips for teaching dancing the "other" role?

[Alexandra Deis-Lauby via Callers]

:)

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 3:36 PM, Dale Wilson  wrote:

> Exactly, it's the hand that confuses me.
> On Jul 6, 2016 1:40 PM, "Alexandra Deis-Lauby" 
> wrote:
>
>> Left hand?
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:56 PM, Dale Wilson via Callers <
>> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>
>>> When I'm dancing the lady's role the only thing I consciously think
>>> about is putting my right and on the Gent's shoulder as we start to swing.
>>> If I get that right, everything else seems natural (to me).
>>>
>>> Dale
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 9:13 PM, tavi merrill via Callers <
>>> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>>
 Regarding swing position: With good frame, differences between the
 roles in giving weight are slight. But not all dancers are accustomed to
 good frame.

 I find a mirrored ballroom hold (both dancers have right hand on the
 other's shoulder blade, left hand on the other's shoulder) offers several
 advantages:
- In general, it's a good hold for dancers to know as it saves
 space in crowded halls.
- It facilitates spinning out from a swing, useful when dancers
 encounter "string of swings" choreography
- It allows both dancers to experience both sides of good frame
 The one challenge is that dancers need to remember which side they are
 ending the swing on, as it removes "pointer hands" from the equation.

 This a bit of a tangent, but related to the chain: If we just called
 gents chains (by either hand! the courtesy turn for a left-hand chain isn't
 REALLY that complicated, folks) more often, role differences WRT chain
 would be a moot issue, and both roles would be better equipped to
 understand/offer/ask/decline flourishes. All for the effort of teaching one
 move well, one move that's out there in good choreography waiting to be
 used.

 Susan, I'm assuming this workshop is at a gender-free series, but
 geared to encourage attendance by dancers who aren't yet accustomed to
 gender-free dance? Having danced both roles widely and called a bit of
 gender-free, I'd be happy to chat by phone or IM. Feel free to ping me on
 facebook - Tavi Merrill



 On 7/5/2016 11:32 AM, Susan Pleck via Callers wrote:
> > Hi folks,
> >
> > I'm to lead a workshop/extended intro lesson at a local dance this
> > Saturday on gender-free dancing/dancing the "other" role/switching
> > roles.  Not having done this before, I'd appreciate any thoughts or
> > advice about what this should include.  For the gender-free aspect,
> > I'm not sure there's much to discuss, really; ir'd be more just
> giving
> > dancers a chance to practice responding to different terms.  For
> > dancing the other role, though, what points of emphasis do you think
> > would be most useful?  Two that come to mind are swing
> > positioning/giving weight, and figures such as a chain where the
> > actions of the two roles are different.
>
>
 ___
 Callers mailing list
 Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
 http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net


>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Turn Observation into Data. Turn Data into Information
>>> . Turn Information into
>>> Knowledge. Turn Knowledge into Wisdom. Turn Wisdom into Beauty. Turn Beauty
>>> into Love .
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Callers mailing list
>>> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
>>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>>>
>>>
>>

Re: [Callers] tips for teaching dancing the "other" role?

[Dale Wilson via Callers]

Exactly, it's the hand that confuses me.
On Jul 6, 2016 1:40 PM, "Alexandra Deis-Lauby"  wrote:

> Left hand?
>
> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:56 PM, Dale Wilson via Callers <
> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> When I'm dancing the lady's role the only thing I consciously think about
>> is putting my right and on the Gent's shoulder as we start to swing.  If I
>> get that right, everything else seems natural (to me).
>>
>> Dale
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 9:13 PM, tavi merrill via Callers <
>> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Regarding swing position: With good frame, differences between the roles
>>> in giving weight are slight. But not all dancers are accustomed to good
>>> frame.
>>>
>>> I find a mirrored ballroom hold (both dancers have right hand on the
>>> other's shoulder blade, left hand on the other's shoulder) offers several
>>> advantages:
>>>- In general, it's a good hold for dancers to know as it saves
>>> space in crowded halls.
>>>- It facilitates spinning out from a swing, useful when dancers
>>> encounter "string of swings" choreography
>>>- It allows both dancers to experience both sides of good frame
>>> The one challenge is that dancers need to remember which side they are
>>> ending the swing on, as it removes "pointer hands" from the equation.
>>>
>>> This a bit of a tangent, but related to the chain: If we just called
>>> gents chains (by either hand! the courtesy turn for a left-hand chain isn't
>>> REALLY that complicated, folks) more often, role differences WRT chain
>>> would be a moot issue, and both roles would be better equipped to
>>> understand/offer/ask/decline flourishes. All for the effort of teaching one
>>> move well, one move that's out there in good choreography waiting to be
>>> used.
>>>
>>> Susan, I'm assuming this workshop is at a gender-free series, but geared
>>> to encourage attendance by dancers who aren't yet accustomed to gender-free
>>> dance? Having danced both roles widely and called a bit of gender-free, I'd
>>> be happy to chat by phone or IM. Feel free to ping me on facebook - Tavi
>>> Merrill
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7/5/2016 11:32 AM, Susan Pleck via Callers wrote:
 > Hi folks,
 >
 > I'm to lead a workshop/extended intro lesson at a local dance this
 > Saturday on gender-free dancing/dancing the "other" role/switching
 > roles.  Not having done this before, I'd appreciate any thoughts or
 > advice about what this should include.  For the gender-free aspect,
 > I'm not sure there's much to discuss, really; ir'd be more just giving
 > dancers a chance to practice responding to different terms.  For
 > dancing the other role, though, what points of emphasis do you think
 > would be most useful?  Two that come to mind are swing
 > positioning/giving weight, and figures such as a chain where the
 > actions of the two roles are different.


>>> ___
>>> Callers mailing list
>>> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
>>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Turn Observation into Data. Turn Data into Information
>> . Turn Information into
>> Knowledge. Turn Knowledge into Wisdom. Turn Wisdom into Beauty. Turn Beauty
>> into Love .
>>
>> ___
>> Callers mailing list
>> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>>
>>
>

Re: [Callers] tips for teaching dancing the "other" role?

[Alexandra Deis-Lauby via Callers]

Left hand?

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:56 PM, Dale Wilson via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> When I'm dancing the lady's role the only thing I consciously think about
> is putting my right and on the Gent's shoulder as we start to swing.  If I
> get that right, everything else seems natural (to me).
>
> Dale
>
> On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 9:13 PM, tavi merrill via Callers <
> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> Regarding swing position: With good frame, differences between the roles
>> in giving weight are slight. But not all dancers are accustomed to good
>> frame.
>>
>> I find a mirrored ballroom hold (both dancers have right hand on the
>> other's shoulder blade, left hand on the other's shoulder) offers several
>> advantages:
>>- In general, it's a good hold for dancers to know as it saves
>> space in crowded halls.
>>- It facilitates spinning out from a swing, useful when dancers
>> encounter "string of swings" choreography
>>- It allows both dancers to experience both sides of good frame
>> The one challenge is that dancers need to remember which side they are
>> ending the swing on, as it removes "pointer hands" from the equation.
>>
>> This a bit of a tangent, but related to the chain: If we just called
>> gents chains (by either hand! the courtesy turn for a left-hand chain isn't
>> REALLY that complicated, folks) more often, role differences WRT chain
>> would be a moot issue, and both roles would be better equipped to
>> understand/offer/ask/decline flourishes. All for the effort of teaching one
>> move well, one move that's out there in good choreography waiting to be
>> used.
>>
>> Susan, I'm assuming this workshop is at a gender-free series, but geared
>> to encourage attendance by dancers who aren't yet accustomed to gender-free
>> dance? Having danced both roles widely and called a bit of gender-free, I'd
>> be happy to chat by phone or IM. Feel free to ping me on facebook - Tavi
>> Merrill
>>
>>
>>
>> On 7/5/2016 11:32 AM, Susan Pleck via Callers wrote:
>>> > Hi folks,
>>> >
>>> > I'm to lead a workshop/extended intro lesson at a local dance this
>>> > Saturday on gender-free dancing/dancing the "other" role/switching
>>> > roles.  Not having done this before, I'd appreciate any thoughts or
>>> > advice about what this should include.  For the gender-free aspect,
>>> > I'm not sure there's much to discuss, really; ir'd be more just giving
>>> > dancers a chance to practice responding to different terms.  For
>>> > dancing the other role, though, what points of emphasis do you think
>>> > would be most useful?  Two that come to mind are swing
>>> > positioning/giving weight, and figures such as a chain where the
>>> > actions of the two roles are different.
>>>
>>>
>> ___
>> Callers mailing list
>> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Turn Observation into Data. Turn Data into Information
> . Turn Information into
> Knowledge. Turn Knowledge into Wisdom. Turn Wisdom into Beauty. Turn Beauty
> into Love .
>
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>
>

Re: [Callers] tips for teaching dancing the "other" role?

[Dale Wilson via Callers]

When I'm dancing the lady's role the only thing I consciously think about
is putting my right and on the Gent's shoulder as we start to swing.  If I
get that right, everything else seems natural (to me).

Dale

On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 9:13 PM, tavi merrill via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Regarding swing position: With good frame, differences between the roles
> in giving weight are slight. But not all dancers are accustomed to good
> frame.
>
> I find a mirrored ballroom hold (both dancers have right hand on the
> other's shoulder blade, left hand on the other's shoulder) offers several
> advantages:
>- In general, it's a good hold for dancers to know as it saves
> space in crowded halls.
>- It facilitates spinning out from a swing, useful when dancers
> encounter "string of swings" choreography
>- It allows both dancers to experience both sides of good frame
> The one challenge is that dancers need to remember which side they are
> ending the swing on, as it removes "pointer hands" from the equation.
>
> This a bit of a tangent, but related to the chain: If we just called gents
> chains (by either hand! the courtesy turn for a left-hand chain isn't
> REALLY that complicated, folks) more often, role differences WRT chain
> would be a moot issue, and both roles would be better equipped to
> understand/offer/ask/decline flourishes. All for the effort of teaching one
> move well, one move that's out there in good choreography waiting to be
> used.
>
> Susan, I'm assuming this workshop is at a gender-free series, but geared
> to encourage attendance by dancers who aren't yet accustomed to gender-free
> dance? Having danced both roles widely and called a bit of gender-free, I'd
> be happy to chat by phone or IM. Feel free to ping me on facebook - Tavi
> Merrill
>
>
>
> On 7/5/2016 11:32 AM, Susan Pleck via Callers wrote:
>> > Hi folks,
>> >
>> > I'm to lead a workshop/extended intro lesson at a local dance this
>> > Saturday on gender-free dancing/dancing the "other" role/switching
>> > roles.  Not having done this before, I'd appreciate any thoughts or
>> > advice about what this should include.  For the gender-free aspect,
>> > I'm not sure there's much to discuss, really; ir'd be more just giving
>> > dancers a chance to practice responding to different terms.  For
>> > dancing the other role, though, what points of emphasis do you think
>> > would be most useful?  Two that come to mind are swing
>> > positioning/giving weight, and figures such as a chain where the
>> > actions of the two roles are different.
>>
>>
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>
>


-- 
Turn Observation into Data. Turn Data into Information
. Turn Information into
Knowledge. Turn Knowledge into Wisdom. Turn Wisdom into Beauty. Turn Beauty
into Love .

Re: [Callers] tips for teaching dancing the "other" role?

[tavi merrill via Callers]

Regarding swing position: With good frame, differences between the roles in
giving weight are slight. But not all dancers are accustomed to good frame.

I find a mirrored ballroom hold (both dancers have right hand on the
other's shoulder blade, left hand on the other's shoulder) offers several
advantages:
   - In general, it's a good hold for dancers to know as it saves space
in crowded halls.
   - It facilitates spinning out from a swing, useful when dancers
encounter "string of swings" choreography
   - It allows both dancers to experience both sides of good frame
The one challenge is that dancers need to remember which side they are
ending the swing on, as it removes "pointer hands" from the equation.

This a bit of a tangent, but related to the chain: If we just called gents
chains (by either hand! the courtesy turn for a left-hand chain isn't
REALLY that complicated, folks) more often, role differences WRT chain
would be a moot issue, and both roles would be better equipped to
understand/offer/ask/decline flourishes. All for the effort of teaching one
move well, one move that's out there in good choreography waiting to be
used.

Susan, I'm assuming this workshop is at a gender-free series, but geared to
encourage attendance by dancers who aren't yet accustomed to gender-free
dance? Having danced both roles widely and called a bit of gender-free, I'd
be happy to chat by phone or IM. Feel free to ping me on facebook - Tavi
Merrill



On 7/5/2016 11:32 AM, Susan Pleck via Callers wrote:
> > Hi folks,
> >
> > I'm to lead a workshop/extended intro lesson at a local dance this
> > Saturday on gender-free dancing/dancing the "other" role/switching
> > roles.  Not having done this before, I'd appreciate any thoughts or
> > advice about what this should include.  For the gender-free aspect,
> > I'm not sure there's much to discuss, really; ir'd be more just giving
> > dancers a chance to practice responding to different terms.  For
> > dancing the other role, though, what points of emphasis do you think
> > would be most useful?  Two that come to mind are swing
> > positioning/giving weight, and figures such as a chain where the
> > actions of the two roles are different.
>
>

Re: [Callers] tips for teaching dancing the "other" role?

[Alexandra Deis-Lauby via Callers]

Everything Maia said!

Also, if you find you are teaching to people who are doing well with both
roles, and want to learn when they can switch within a dance other than in
a swing, the easiest places are in Long lines if one is across from your
partner, (do like a hole-in-the wall gypsy), in Long lines, if one is next
to your partner (add a roll away) and then adding or subtracting a 1/2 turn
in an allemande or do si do w/ partner.

I would also remind dancers that all flourishes are offers and should feel
like offers, and dancers should talk about flourishes with their partner
and whether or not they would like any.

Have fun!

A


On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 5:06 PM, Maia McCormick via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> I find that a lot of people who have danced mostly the gent's role, when
> they start dancing the lady's role, think that when they swing, they're
> supposed to go backwards or sorta sideways... I mean, hell, a lot of people
> think that's how a lady swings when they first start dancing that role!
> But, I emphasize that you're both walking (or buzz-stepping) *forward*,
> roughly aiming at a point over your partner's shoulder. In fact, *the
> footwork for a swing for both roles is exactly the same!!!* A good way to
> emphasize this might be to have participants do a gender-neutral swing
> (e.g. right hand on shoulder blade, left hand clasped with partner above
> the heads) and then change the hand position into your classic ballroom
> swing (perhaps even trying out ballroom position with person A leading,
> then with person B leading) and noting how the footwork stays the same.
>
> Ending the swing on the opposite side also takes some getting used to.
> Instead of emphasizing which role ends where ("gent ends on the left... oh
> god, am I the gent??"), I find it useful to talk about ending the swing
> with the "pointy end" pointing in the direction you want to be facing, and
> releasing from there--works for both roles, so no scrambling to remember
> what role you're dancing and what side you're supposed to end up on.
>
> You might lean towards selecting dances where tricky gendered stuff (e.g.
> the courtesy turn, which many people will be learning for the first time in
> their new role) happens with a neighbor. If it happens that you and your
> partner are both confused about how to do a courtesy turn in your new role
> and the only courtesy turns happen with your partner, you're not going to
> get any help.
>
> Lastly (and this is something that I urge all you folks on the
> listserv to do, even if you're not calling specifically gender-neutral
> dances): use gender-neutral language to describe the roles! I find this
> every effective for breaking down role gender expectations, even if the
> role names themselves are gendered. So rather than "gents, take that
> neighbor lady and scoop her around in a courtesy turn", say, "scoop *them* 
> around
> in a courtesy turn".
>
> Good luck! Let us know how it goes, and what did or didn't work well!
>
> Cheers,
> Maia
>
> On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 4:29 PM, Chris Page via Callers <
> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> One subtle thing that's different is progression instincts -- typically
>> men's
>> role progress on the left, women's on the right. (Like with a final B2
>> of circle left 3/4, pass through).
>>
>>
>> The few times I've had everyone do a gender swap, I've gone with the
>> dance "Bicoastal Contra" by Pete Campbell.
>>
>>
>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/pipermail/callers-sharedweight.net/2008-April/009516.html
>>
>> Two swings, one courtesy turn, a men's allemande, fairly simple
>> choreography -- and neither swing need end with the correct person on
>> the right.
>>
>> -Chris Page
>> San Diego, CA
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 11:32 AM, Susan Pleck via Callers
>>  wrote:
>> > Hi folks,
>> >
>> > I'm to lead a workshop/extended intro lesson at a local dance this
>> Saturday
>> > on gender-free dancing/dancing the "other" role/switching roles.  Not
>> having
>> > done this before, I'd appreciate any thoughts or advice about what this
>> > should include.  For the gender-free aspect, I'm not sure there's much
>> to
>> > discuss, really; ir'd be more just giving dancers a chance to practice
>> > responding to different terms.  For dancing the other role, though, what
>> > points of emphasis do you think would be most useful?  Two that come to
>> mind
>> > are swing positioning/giving weight, and figures such as a chain where
>> the
>> > actions of the two roles are different.
>> >
>> > thank you!
>> > Susan Pleck
>> > Oakland, CA
>> >
>> > ___
>> > Callers mailing list
>> > Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
>> > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>> >
>> ___
>> Callers mailing list
>> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
>> 

Re: [Callers] tips for teaching dancing the "other" role?

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Tue, Jul 05, 2016, Susan Pleck via Callers wrote:
>
> I'm to lead a workshop/extended intro lesson at a local dance this
> Saturday on gender-free dancing/dancing the "other" role/switching
> roles. Not having done this before, I'd appreciate any thoughts
> or advice about what this should include. For the gender-free
> aspect, I'm not sure there's much to discuss, really; ir'd be more
> just giving dancers a chance to practice responding to different
> terms. For dancing the other role, though, what points of emphasis
> do you think would be most useful? Two that come to mind are swing
> positioning/giving weight, and figures such as a chain where the
> actions of the two roles are different.

Depending on what kind of group you have, it might be easier to teach
them "from scratch".  Obviously, you could go a lot faster with
experienced dancers, but starting fresh -- and telling them they're
starting over -- might put them into a more accepting mindset and give
you the opportunity to correct any flaws in their previous dancing.

I know that I for a long time was using a poor left-hand shoulder hold
for raven swinging (until Kelsey corrected me).
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] tips for teaching dancing the "other" role?

[Maia McCormick via Callers]

I find that a lot of people who have danced mostly the gent's role, when
they start dancing the lady's role, think that when they swing, they're
supposed to go backwards or sorta sideways... I mean, hell, a lot of people
think that's how a lady swings when they first start dancing that role!
But, I emphasize that you're both walking (or buzz-stepping) *forward*,
roughly aiming at a point over your partner's shoulder. In fact, *the
footwork for a swing for both roles is exactly the same!!!* A good way to
emphasize this might be to have participants do a gender-neutral swing
(e.g. right hand on shoulder blade, left hand clasped with partner above
the heads) and then change the hand position into your classic ballroom
swing (perhaps even trying out ballroom position with person A leading,
then with person B leading) and noting how the footwork stays the same.

Ending the swing on the opposite side also takes some getting used to.
Instead of emphasizing which role ends where ("gent ends on the left... oh
god, am I the gent??"), I find it useful to talk about ending the swing
with the "pointy end" pointing in the direction you want to be facing, and
releasing from there--works for both roles, so no scrambling to remember
what role you're dancing and what side you're supposed to end up on.

You might lean towards selecting dances where tricky gendered stuff (e.g.
the courtesy turn, which many people will be learning for the first time in
their new role) happens with a neighbor. If it happens that you and your
partner are both confused about how to do a courtesy turn in your new role
and the only courtesy turns happen with your partner, you're not going to
get any help.

Lastly (and this is something that I urge all you folks on the listserv
to do, even if you're not calling specifically gender-neutral dances): use
gender-neutral language to describe the roles! I find this every effective
for breaking down role gender expectations, even if the role names
themselves are gendered. So rather than "gents, take that neighbor lady and
scoop her around in a courtesy turn", say, "scoop *them* around in a
courtesy turn".

Good luck! Let us know how it goes, and what did or didn't work well!

Cheers,
Maia

On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 4:29 PM, Chris Page via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> One subtle thing that's different is progression instincts -- typically
> men's
> role progress on the left, women's on the right. (Like with a final B2
> of circle left 3/4, pass through).
>
>
> The few times I've had everyone do a gender swap, I've gone with the
> dance "Bicoastal Contra" by Pete Campbell.
>
>
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/pipermail/callers-sharedweight.net/2008-April/009516.html
>
> Two swings, one courtesy turn, a men's allemande, fairly simple
> choreography -- and neither swing need end with the correct person on
> the right.
>
> -Chris Page
> San Diego, CA
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 11:32 AM, Susan Pleck via Callers
>  wrote:
> > Hi folks,
> >
> > I'm to lead a workshop/extended intro lesson at a local dance this
> Saturday
> > on gender-free dancing/dancing the "other" role/switching roles.  Not
> having
> > done this before, I'd appreciate any thoughts or advice about what this
> > should include.  For the gender-free aspect, I'm not sure there's much to
> > discuss, really; ir'd be more just giving dancers a chance to practice
> > responding to different terms.  For dancing the other role, though, what
> > points of emphasis do you think would be most useful?  Two that come to
> mind
> > are swing positioning/giving weight, and figures such as a chain where
> the
> > actions of the two roles are different.
> >
> > thank you!
> > Susan Pleck
> > Oakland, CA
> >
> > ___
> > Callers mailing list
> > Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
> >
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>

Re: [Callers] tips for teaching dancing the "other" role?

[Chris Page via Callers]

One subtle thing that's different is progression instincts -- typically men's
role progress on the left, women's on the right. (Like with a final B2
of circle left 3/4, pass through).


The few times I've had everyone do a gender swap, I've gone with the
dance "Bicoastal Contra" by Pete Campbell.

http://lists.sharedweight.net/pipermail/callers-sharedweight.net/2008-April/009516.html

Two swings, one courtesy turn, a men's allemande, fairly simple
choreography -- and neither swing need end with the correct person on
the right.

-Chris Page
San Diego, CA


On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 11:32 AM, Susan Pleck via Callers
 wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> I'm to lead a workshop/extended intro lesson at a local dance this Saturday
> on gender-free dancing/dancing the "other" role/switching roles.  Not having
> done this before, I'd appreciate any thoughts or advice about what this
> should include.  For the gender-free aspect, I'm not sure there's much to
> discuss, really; ir'd be more just giving dancers a chance to practice
> responding to different terms.  For dancing the other role, though, what
> points of emphasis do you think would be most useful?  Two that come to mind
> are swing positioning/giving weight, and figures such as a chain where the
> actions of the two roles are different.
>
> thank you!
> Susan Pleck
> Oakland, CA
>
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>

Re: [Callers] tips for teaching dancing the "other" role?

[Winston, Alan P. via Callers]

On 7/5/2016 11:32 AM, Susan Pleck via Callers wrote:

Hi folks,

I'm to lead a workshop/extended intro lesson at a local dance this 
Saturday on gender-free dancing/dancing the "other" role/switching 
roles.  Not having done this before, I'd appreciate any thoughts or 
advice about what this should include.  For the gender-free aspect, 
I'm not sure there's much to discuss, really; ir'd be more just giving 
dancers a chance to practice responding to different terms.  For 
dancing the other role, though, what points of emphasis do you think 
would be most useful?  Two that come to mind are swing 
positioning/giving weight, and figures such as a chain where the 
actions of the two roles are different.


I think swing practice from the "other" position, with coaching, is a 
good idea.


Also, like it or not, most flourishes are led by the gent/band/lark 
role, and that's pretty different when you switch.  So a few words on 
leading (including that you don't have to have flourishes at all,  
better never than late bt when "late" is, that leads are invitations and 
can be declined without prejudice, that twirls are generally 
accomplished by the follow rather than by the lead) and on following 
(being aware that people are gonna try to lead you in stuff,  how to 
decline leads you don't want to follow) might be helpful.


-- Alan

[Callers] tips for teaching dancing the "other" role?

[Susan Pleck via Callers]

Hi folks,
I'm to lead a workshop/extended intro lesson at a local dance this Saturday on 
gender-free dancing/dancing the "other" role/switching roles.  Not having done 
this before, I'd appreciate any thoughts or advice about what this should 
include.  For the gender-free aspect, I'm not sure there's much to discuss, 
really; ir'd be more just giving dancers a chance to practice responding to 
different terms.  For dancing the other role, though, what points of emphasis 
do you think would be most useful?  Two that come to mind are swing 
positioning/giving weight, and figures such as a chain where the actions of the 
two roles are different.
thank you!Susan PleckOakland, CA