Re: [Callers] Tempo
> > Jim, thank you for all of your in depth analysis. If the dance tempos of > Danish contra dancers is of interest perhaps a Danish caller will shed some > light on the subject. > > I was attempting to answer Rich’s original question. Rich, what is your take > now? >> > ___ List Name: Callers mailing list List Address: Callers@lists.sharedweight.net Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
Re: [Callers] Tempo
While looking for more videos of contra dancing in Denmark, I instead came across a video in which Danish caller Else Bach Nielsen calls a New-England-style square (coincidentally written by Tom Hinds) to the music of visiting American band Phantom Power: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJV6_2SWg0s (~116 BPM) I don't know whether the caller set the tempo or left it the band. --Jim On Sep 22, 2019, at 6:55 PM, jim saxe wrote: > > I looked for videos of contra dancing in Denmark and found these three: > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hhxwVuoI2g (119-120 BPM) > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4KB-uSWkKc (117-118 BPM) > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03ALEBBtUbc (~113 BPM) > > These all seem to be from the same event. It's possible that a wider > sampling of contra dances in Denmark (which may not be available Youtube) > would support Tom's recollection of faster tempos. > ... ___ List Name: Callers mailing list List Address: Callers@lists.sharedweight.net Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
Re: [Callers] Tempo
I looked for videos of contra dancing in Denmark and found these three: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hhxwVuoI2g (119-120 BPM) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4KB-uSWkKc (117-118 BPM) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03ALEBBtUbc (~113 BPM) These all seem to be from the same event. It's possible that a wider sampling of contra dances in Denmark (which may not be available Youtube) would support Tom's recollection of faster tempos. The videos do seem to support Tom's observation about the infrequency of improvisation. On casual viewing, without trying to look carefully at each visible dancer in each video, I didn't notice anyone twirling out of swings much less doing dips, etc., and I noticed only one place where it seemed that someone (partially obscured from the camera by other dancers) embellished a nominal courtesy turn with a twirl. In 1992, I attended a conference in Denmark and managed to find my way to a couple of dances while I was there. I don't have a specific recollection about the tempos, but if I recall correctly, the events I got to were regular local dances with recorded music (probably on cassette or vinyl). That might have meant that the callers were in control of variable-speed players. --Jim > On Sep 22, 2019, at 4:53 PM, tom hinds via Callers > wrote: > > I believe that the tempo for dancing contras in the United States has to do > with the style and wants of the dancers. It’s the desire to improvise and > flirt which I think is an integral part of the US contra scene and is the > reason for the tempo being what it is. > > If you look at the contra dancing in Denmark, the tempos are much faster. > Although I haven’t been there for several years they don’t improvise and they > don’t do much if any flirting either. They dance very straight. My > conclusion from watching them quite a bit is that slower tempos would leave > them standing around which they wouldn’t find as much fun. I’ve never timed > the music but I would guess it’s easily at 124 bpm or higher, definitely the > same as a tempo for squares here. > > Sent from my iPad > ___ > List Name: Callers mailing list > List Address: Callers@lists.sharedweight.net > Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/ ___ List Name: Callers mailing list List Address: Callers@lists.sharedweight.net Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
[Callers] Tempo
I believe that the tempo for dancing contras in the United States has to do with the style and wants of the dancers. It’s the desire to improvise and flirt which I think is an integral part of the US contra scene and is the reason for the tempo being what it is. If you look at the contra dancing in Denmark, the tempos are much faster. Although I haven’t been there for several years they don’t improvise and they don’t do much if any flirting either. They dance very straight. My conclusion from watching them quite a bit is that slower tempos would leave them standing around which they wouldn’t find as much fun. I’ve never timed the music but I would guess it’s easily at 124 bpm or higher, definitely the same as a tempo for squares here. Sent from my iPad ___ List Name: Callers mailing list List Address: Callers@lists.sharedweight.net Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
[Callers] Tempo for Squares
Maybe phrased squares can be a bit faster than contras because there is more resting (to catch your breath) in squares, waiting while the sides or heads do something... Becky > On Sep 21, 2019, at 4:06 PM, callers-requ...@lists.sharedweight.net wrote: > > Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2019 13:36:37 -0400 > From: Rich Sbardella <mailto:richsbarde...@gmail.com>> > To: "Caller's discussion list" <mailto:call...@sharedweight.net>> > Subject: [Callers] Tempo for Squares > Message-ID: ><mailto:CAE4BujJAzmu=2xnbsdqtbpqgkhbyxakogacfaf0myrznxsz...@mail.gmail.com>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Folks, > I am curious. Tempo for contra is often below 120 bpm. I learned to call > squares at about 128 bpm. > Is this significant difference the norm, and if so why? > Rich Sbardella > Stafford Springs, CT ___ List Name: Callers mailing list List Address: Callers@lists.sharedweight.net Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
Re: [Callers] Tempo for Squares
Rich, My impression, though I don't have solid data to back it up, is that in communities where it is (or was) common to mix contra with New-England-style phrased squares, the tempos for the squares tend(ed) to run pretty similar to tempos for contras in the same community, or perhaps just a little faster. When I danced in Pittsburgh, PA, in the early-to-mid 1980s, there was a thriving "traditional" (maybe "revival" or "neo-traditional" would be a more accurate term) square dance scene that focused more on southern and traditional western squares, but some of the callers also included a few contra in their programs. Again, I don't have solid data, but my vague impression of a memory is that the square dance tempos ran around 128 BPM and that the contras tended to be slower, maybe more in the 120 range. In 1994, I made a return visit to the Pittsburgh area to attend what turned out to be one of the last years of the Coal Country Convention, a (trad-)square-centric dance weekend. If memory serves, there were just a few contras included in the program, the band for that session played at similar tempos to what they'd been playing for the squares, and those tempos stuck me as inappropriately fast for the contras. For what's worth, here's a video from 1992 of "The Route" as danced at the Concord Scourt House, with music by Yankee Ingenuity plus guest musician Steve Hickman and calling by Tony Parkes: https://squaredancehistory.org/items/show/267 By my reckoning, the average tempo is around 119 BPM at the start, but speeds up to around 123, for an average of about 122. By contrast, here's a 1986 video of an Appalachian-style visiting-couple square dance called by visiting caller Dolores Heagy of Pittsburgh at Tod Whittemore's Thursday evening dance series, then held at the VFW hall in Cambridge, MA: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Q6mUypeRZA The tempo is in the low 130s, which I'm sure is quite a bit faster than typical for contras at that series. By the way, if you pay *careful* attention to the timing of Dolores's calls, you may be surprised to discover how closely and consistently they are matched to the musical phrasing. --Jim > On Sep 21, 2019, at 11:51 AM, Rich Sbardella via Callers > wrote: > > I am asking about phrased squares as in the New England style. > > -- Forwarded message - > > Folks, > I am curious. Tempo for contra is often below 120 bpm. I learned to call > squares at about 128 bpm. > Is this significant difference the norm, and if so why? > Rich Sbardella > Stafford Springs, CT > ___ > List Name: Callers mailing list > List Address: Callers@lists.sharedweight.net > Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/ ___ List Name: Callers mailing list List Address: Callers@lists.sharedweight.net Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
Re: [Callers] Tempo for Squares
Southern Missouri squares are often blazing fast, largely dictated by the clogging style dancing used...the feet aren't going fare, but they are definitely going fast. Here is a clip from an Ava, Mo. dance: https://youtu.be/f_fymnXgXow Bob Green On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 1:11 PM Nick Cuccia via Callers < callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > On 9/21/19 10:50 AM, Colin Hume via Callers wrote: > > On Sat, 21 Sep 2019 13:36:37 -0400, Rich Sbardella via Callers wrote: > >> Tempo for contra is often below 120 bpm.� I learned to call squares at > about 128 bpm. > >> > >> Is this significant difference the norm, and if so why? > > If you're talking about unphrased squares (Southern or MWSD) maybe > people can cope with a faster tempo because the caller waits > > until they've finished a move, whereas a contra is supposed to be fitted > to the music. > > > In my area (California's San Joaquin Valley, between Stockton and > Fresno), most MWSD folk would consider 127 BPM or faster to be "fast". > 123 BPM is a more typical tempo here, and for some of the older dancers, > that's a bit fast. And as Colin alluded, MWSD callers will wait for > dancers to catch up more often than not. In fact, MWSD callers here > teaching dancers how many beats they have to execute a given figure is > almost nonexistent. > > --Nick > > ___ > List Name: Callers mailing list > List Address: Callers@lists.sharedweight.net > Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/ > ___ List Name: Callers mailing list List Address: Callers@lists.sharedweight.net Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
Re: [Callers] Tempo for Squares
On 9/21/19 10:50 AM, Colin Hume via Callers wrote: > On Sat, 21 Sep 2019 13:36:37 -0400, Rich Sbardella via Callers wrote: >> Tempo for contra is often below 120 bpm.� I learned to call squares at >> about 128 bpm. >> >> Is this significant difference the norm, and if so why? > If you're talking about unphrased squares (Southern or MWSD) maybe people can > cope with a faster tempo because the caller waits > until they've finished a move, whereas a contra is supposed to be fitted to > the music. > In my area (California's San Joaquin Valley, between Stockton and Fresno), most MWSD folk would consider 127 BPM or faster to be "fast". 123 BPM is a more typical tempo here, and for some of the older dancers, that's a bit fast. And as Colin alluded, MWSD callers will wait for dancers to catch up more often than not. In fact, MWSD callers here teaching dancers how many beats they have to execute a given figure is almost nonexistent. --Nick ___ List Name: Callers mailing list List Address: Callers@lists.sharedweight.net Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
Re: [Callers] Tempo for Squares
On Sat, 21 Sep 2019 13:36:37 -0400, Rich Sbardella via Callers wrote: > Tempo for contra is often below 120 bpm.� I learned to call squares at about > 128 bpm. > > Is this significant difference the norm, and if so why? If you're talking about unphrased squares (Southern or MWSD) maybe people can cope with a faster tempo because the caller waits until they've finished a move, whereas a contra is supposed to be fitted to the music. Colin Hume ___ List Name: Callers mailing list List Address: Callers@lists.sharedweight.net Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
[Callers] Tempo for Squares
Folks, I am curious. Tempo for contra is often below 120 bpm. I learned to call squares at about 128 bpm. Is this significant difference the norm, and if so why? Rich Sbardella Stafford Springs, CT ___ List Name: Callers mailing list List Address: Callers@lists.sharedweight.net Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
[Callers] tempo
Rich Sbardella said: Some songs "sound" fast at 120 and some songs sound slow at 128.? This sound sometimes confuses dancers.? I'd be curious to know if the perception of tempo is influenced by the busyness of the tune or how it's played. Does a tune sound faster if it's notey? Does a less notey tune sound slower? Tom
