Re: [Callers] Wrist-lock Stars

[James Saxe via Callers]

This message is kinda long, so here's the executive summary:

 Can any of you identify sources that describe wrist-hold
 stars in American square or contra dancing before 1949?
 I'd be particularly interested in sources that date from
 significantly earlier and in sources that describe
 wrist-holds as being a new or newly-popular style in
 some area.

On Oct 11, 2016, at 1:14 PM, Dan Pearl quoted a posting by
Sylvia Miskoe to rec.folk-dancing on March 4, 1999 in which
she wrote:

> Wrist grip stars became popular after the appearance at New England Folk
> Festival (NEFFA) of the Lithuanian Dance Group doing their dances and they all
> used wrist grips.  The square dancers thought it was a neat idea and adopted
> it.

I think it would be quite noteworthy if the appearance of the
Lithuanian Dance group at NEFFA could clearly be identified as *the*
point from which wrist-hold stars spread to become common throughout
most of the U.S.  Assuming the Lithuanian dancers indeed set off a
local surge in popularity of wrist-hold stars among square and/or
contra dancers, there may nonetheless have been other times and
places where wrist-hold stars were either imported into American
dance forms from some other tradition or independently discovered
by American dancers.  However, I can't offer much evidence on the
subject one way or the other.

According to the NEFFA history at

 http://www.neffa.org/history.html

the Lithuanian dancers have been regular performers since the very
first Festival in the fall of 1944.  I don't know whether the
appearance that Sylvia described was at that first festival or
at a later one.

*** I'd be interested in any other info of the introduction or use
of wrist-hold stars from before about 1950, either from dancers with
long memories, from written records, or from photos or drawings.
Even an opinion piece disparaging wrist stars as uncomfortable or
inauthentic would be evidence that some dancers were using them at
the time of writing.

Taking a quick look through some of the sources I have at hand,
I'm surprised to see that the earliest mentions or descriptions of
wrist-hold stars that I've found so far date from 1949.  I hasten
to emphasize that I've examined only a relatively small number of
sources, and those only cursorily.  Possibly some of you can find
earlier mentions of wrist-hold stars.  If so, please tell ne about
them.

Here's summary of what I've found in the sources I've checked so
far.  I'll start with the definite mentions, descriptions, or
illustrations or wrist-hold stars, including the earliest ones
I've found and a selection of later ones.  Then I'll go on to
list a few where the descriptions either definitely indicate a
different styling or don't give enough detail to make it clear
just what styling is intended.

==
1949
Ed Gilmore
Square Dance Callers Instruction Course
Linked from http://squaredancehistory.org/items/show/581

In the notes on "Texas Star", Ed writes:

Do not teach wrist hold star to beginners at the first
two or three dances. ...

To me this indicates that he does recommend teaching wrist
hold stars eventually.
==
1949
Sets In Order, Vol 1, No. 6, June, 1949

A description of the dance "Four Gents Star" on page 7
reads, in part:

Four gents star in the center of the square.
The four men make a right hand star taking the
wrist of the gent ahead of them.

I own a copy of the complete digitized _Sets In Order_.  This
is the earliest occurrence of the word "wrist" found by a full
text search.  (Note, however, that the magazine only commenced
publication in November 1948).
==
1949
"On Standardization of Fundamentals"
Sets In Order, Vol 1, No. 9, September, 1949
Pages 8-9

This article, reporting on a meeting of about 100 callers from
Los Angeles and surrounding counties offers the following styling
suggestions for stars:

STARS—Gents, wrist hold recommended.
  Ladies, hand hold recommended (because of skirt work).
  This is to be formed by each person putting arm out at
  about shoulder height with palm of hand toward opposite
  person.
  Mixed, hand hold recommended.
  Star with crossed hands—Just that, take hand of person
  across from you.
==
1950
Guy Merrill
Merrill's Standardization of Square Dancing
American Squares, Vol. 5, No. 7, March, 1950
Pages 11-12.

This tongue-in-cheek list of styling recommendations includes the
following (on p. 11):

   27. Wrist hold in star formations—At call "Gents to the
center and form right hand star", always stop still in center of
set, discuss wrist hold, teach newcomers how to do it. Everyone
will enjoy this.  When that chap gets your wrist he'll hurt it
so don't let him get it.

_American Squares_ began publication in September, 1945.  This is
the second-earliest occurrence of "wrist" found by full-text
search.  The one earlier occurrence has nothing to do with stars.

Re: [Callers] Wrist Lock Stars - Summary

[John Sweeney via Callers]

David said, " I would rather have a lump star moving promptly than a
beautiful wrist star three steps late".

Absolutely!

Which is why I always teach the dancers to move their feet first and worry
about their hands once they are moving.

Happy dancing,
John

John Sweeney, Dancer, England j...@modernjive.com 01233 625 362
http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent

Re: [Callers] Wrist Lock Stars - Summary

[Donna Hunt via Callers]

 So TRUE!  Especially for a bunch of beginners.  It's more important to get the 
feet moving than to make it "perfect" 



Donna Hunt

Email: dhuntdan...@aol.com








-Original Message-
From: David Harding via Callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net>
To: callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net>
Sent: Fri, Oct 21, 2016 4:02 am
Subject: Re: [Callers] Wrist Lock Stars - Summary

Let me echo my thanks, but put in a word of defense for the denigrated 
Lump Star.  I would rather have a lump star moving promptly than a 
beautiful wrist star three steps late.


On 10/19/2016 4:40 AM, John Sweeney via Callers wrote:
> Alternative Star Holds:
>   Hands Across (that term goes back to at least 1650!)
>   Palm Star (MWSD only)
>   Lump (Bunch of Bananas, Limp Lettuce) - to be avoided at all costs

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Re: [Callers] Wrist Lock Stars - Summary

[David Harding via Callers]

Let me echo my thanks, but put in a word of defense for the denigrated 
Lump Star.  I would rather have a lump star moving promptly than a 
beautiful wrist star three steps late.



On 10/19/2016 4:40 AM, John Sweeney via Callers wrote:

Alternative Star Holds:
Hands Across (that term goes back to at least 1650!)
Palm Star (MWSD only)
Lump (Bunch of Bananas, Limp Lettuce) - to be avoided at all costs

Re: [Callers] Wrist Lock Stars - Summary

[Rich Sbardella via Callers]

In refereence to John's comment about hairy, sweaty wrists in MWSD, it has
been an unwritten rule, or at least a courtesy, that men wear long sleeve
shirts to avoid such hairy, sweaty, contact.  Long sleeves are still the
norm in MWSD.
Rich Sbardella

On Wed, Oct 19, 2016 at 5:40 AM, John Sweeney via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Thanks to all those who contributed.  Here is a summary of the key points
> that were made.  It is clear that the wrist lock star is indeed the
> standard
> across the USA, with only a few areas using hands across.
>
> Summary
>
> Names: Wrist Star, Box Star, Wrist-Grip Star, Wrist-Lock Star, Pack-saddle
> Star, Wagon-Wheel (Star), Basket Handhold
> Also, but these can mean Hands Across: Millstone Star, Mill, Windmill,
> Moulinet, Old Mill
> Alternative Star Holds:
> Hands Across (that term goes back to at least 1650!)
> Palm Star (MWSD only)
> Lump (Bunch of Bananas, Limp Lettuce) - to be avoided at all costs
>
> Etymology of Mill references:
> Alan Winston: Go back far enough (1700s) and you get "moulinet" in French
> sources, "mill" in some English sources, for what I'm pretty sure are
> hands-across stars.
> Colin Hume: In the Netherlands it's called "molen" which means "windmill".
> John Sweeney: The early 19th century Quadrilles and dances like The Lancers
> used the term Moulinet for Star. As far as we know it was always a Hands
> Across Star.  Moulinet means turnstile, crank or propeller.  Whether it
> independently became known as a Windmill/Mill or whether it was badly
> translated as Moulin = Windmill is unclear.
>
> Wagon-Wheel: in the Appalachians it was a shoulder star - see 2 minutes in
> at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ht9kjeKcOsg.
>
> There is a general view that the term Wrist-Grip should be avoided, and
> that
> it should be emphasised that you don't grip (keep your thumb up top with
> your fingers!).
>
> I like the term "Wrist Lock" since it makes it clear that we are using
> wrists, and since the shape you make looks like the Lock that sword and
> rapper dancers make when they interlink them all and raise them high.  I
> also love that wrist-locks work perfectly for three or five dancers in a
> star (I call lots of different styles).  But I am sure that although the
> move may become even more ubiquitous, the terminology will retains its
> local
> flavour.
>
> Any ideas on when it started?
>
> Dan Pearl: Sylvia Miskoe, in rec.folk-dancing on March 4, 1999 said: "Wrist
> grip stars became popular after the appearance at New England Folk Festival
> (NEFFA) of the Lithuanian Dance Group doing their dances and they all used
> wrist grips.  The square dancers thought it was a neat idea and adopted
> it."
> Any idea when that festival was?
>
> 1964 in Northern Vermont shows wrist-lock stars:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZubTju7g_s
> 1981 Ted Sanella's "Balance & Swing" defines a star in New England as
> "grasp
> the wrist of the dancer ahead".
> 1983 Larry Jennings' "Zesty Contras" refers you to Ted's book.
>
> Exceptions:
> When choreography dictates, e.g. "men drop out, ladies chain" works
> better with hands across
> One night stands
>
> Dave Casserley:
> https://www.swarthmore.edu/sites/default/files/assets/
> documents/linguistics/
> 2007_kaufman_jeff.pdf
> This shows that ten years ago wrist-stars were common everywhere in the US
> except in some parts of the South.
>
> Amy Wimmer (Seattle):
> The wrist lock is the common star formation in the Northwest, with a hands
> across being the exception.
>
> Tim Klein (TN):
> I call for dances in Knoxville, TN and occasionally in the surrounding area
> (Jonesboro, Chattanooga). I've been dancing here for 30 years. I recall
> hands across stars in Knoxville, Atlanta, Brasstown, Asheville and points
> between, but wrist grip stars in Lexington, Louisville and Nashville.
>
> Chet Gray (KY):
> I tend to consider my home dance, Louisville, KY, and nearby Lexington, as
> two of the last bastions of hands-across-by-default. Wrist-grip seems to be
> the default even in relatively nearby cities: Indianapolis, Bloomington,
> IN,
> Nashville, Cincinnati. Not sure about Berea and Somerset, KY, also nearby.
>
> Jerome Grisanti (Midwest):
> I agree with Chet that Louisville's default star is hands-across, although
> weekend festivals in nearby cities tend toward the millstone star. The
> Midwest where I dance/call now is pretty solidly wrist-star territory (St.
> Louis, Columbia MO, Kansas City, Lawrence).
>
> BUT...
> Susan McElroy-Marcus:
> Just a bit of Louisville dance community history on this subject-when my
> husband started dancing there in the late '70s and I came in 1982, the
> Monday night dance was a mix of English and contra.  The default contra
> dance star grip was the "wrist lock" not hands across as in English.  We
> called it a basket handhold or wrist grip.  Our influence came from New
> England because our friend, Norb Spencer, who started 

Re: [Callers] Wrist Lock Stars - Summary

[Tom Hinds via Callers]

John,

Thanks for summarizing all of this.

I thought it was saddle-pack not that it really matters.
You can add Washington DC and surrounding areas (probably Baltimore)  
plus central Virginia as wrist lock.


T

Re: [Callers] Wrist-Lock Stars

[John Sweeney via Callers]

Hi Read,
Yes, you shouldn't pull away from the centre, but then I never 
recommend that in any move.  But you can pull forwards around the circle. I 
always teach that you are pulling the person behind you, who is pulling the 
person behind them, who is pulling the person behind them, who is pulling you!  
You share the energy!

It has a major benefit over the hands across star in this respect, in 
that all four dancers are linked together and can make the star turn faster 
when necessary.  In the hands across star you have no connection to two of the 
dancers, so if they are too slow you can’t help them to speed up.

But I never mention weight!  I don’t want anyone ever to give me their 
weight.  I always ask the dancers to keep their own balance.  On the other hand 
I am delighted to counterbalance their mass and use my muscles to fight 
centrifugal force, but never to fight the people I am connected to. :-)

Happy dancing,
John

John Sweeney, Dancer, England j...@modernjive.com 01233 625 362 
http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent
From: Read Weaver via Callers [mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net] 
Sent: 10 October 2016 21:35
To: Caller's discussion list <call...@sharedweight.net>
Subject: Re: [Callers] Wrist-Lock Stars

When I’m teaching, I make the point that it’s pretty much the only move in 
contra where you _shouldn’t_ give weight even though you could—human wrists 
being neither strong nor flexible in that direction. And that if someone behind 
you is uncomfortably giving weight, you can just let go and turn it into a 
single file for yourself, since you’re not giving weight to aid the circle's 
momentum anyway.

Read Weaver
Jamaica Plain, MA
http://lcfd.org

Re: [Callers] Wrist-Lock Stars

[James Saxe via Callers]

On Oct 10, 2016, at 1:34 PM, Read Weaver via Callers 
 wrote, in reference to
wrist-hold stars:

> When I’m teaching, I make the point that it’s pretty much the only move in 
> contra where you _shouldn’t_ give weight even though you could—human wrists 
> being neither strong nor flexible in that direction. And that if someone 
> behind you is uncomfortably giving weight, you can just let go and turn it 
> into a single file for yourself, since you’re not giving weight to aid the 
> circle's momentum anyway.

In a wrist-hold star, I think it feels best if everyone,
(including the person behind me), does give at least a *little*
weight--maybe not enough to achieve any significant transfer
of momentum around the star, but enough so that there's some
sense of connection rather than each dancer just laying their
hand like a dead fish on the wrist ahead.  The amount of
"weight"/force needed to get a such a feeling of connection is
much, much smaller than the amount involved in carrying even a
typical ten-year-old child in a "four-handed seat" of the sort
shown on page 4 of this document;

http://adminopsnet.usc.edu/sites/default/files/all_departments/FireSafetyEmergPlanning/CERTLiftsandCarries.pdf

Of course, if someone has a weak or injured wrist, the other
dancers should give consideration for that priority over their
own preferences about just how strongly connected they'd like
the star to be.

--Jim

Re: [Callers] Wrist-lock Stars

[Michael Barraclough via Callers]

Much the same thing happened in the UK with the rant step. 

Originally it was never done with crossed feet.  However, after London
Folk danced a rant with crossed feet (for theatrical reasons, emulating
the NW Morris polka) at the Royal Albert Hall Folk Festival everyone
assumed that was 'correct' and started to do that.

Michael Barraclough
www.michaelbarraclough.com

-- 

On Tue, 2016-10-11 at 20:14 +, Dan Pearl via Callers wrote:
> Sylvia Miskoe, in rec.folk-dancing on March 4, 1999 said:
> 
> Wrist grip stars became popular after the appearance at New England
> Folk
> Festival (NEFFA) of the Lithuanian Dance Group doing their dances and
> they all
> used wrist grips.  The square dancers thought it was a neat idea and
> adopted
> it.
> Cheers,
> Sylvia Miskoe, Concord, NH
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net

Re: [Callers] Wrist-lock Stars

[Dan Pearl via Callers]

Sylvia Miskoe, in rec.folk-dancing on March 4, 1999 said:
Wrist grip stars became popular after the appearance at New England Folk
Festival (NEFFA) of the Lithuanian Dance Group doing their dances and they all
used wrist grips.  The square dancers thought it was a neat idea and adopted
it.
Cheers,
Sylvia Miskoe, Concord, NH


   

Re: [Callers] Wrist-Lock Stars

[Chet Gray via Callers]

Susan, thanks for relating some of LCD's history! I had figured
Louisville's hands-across was due to historic influence from regional
square dancing. I'm curious of the actual cause of the the (relatively
recent, it seems) switch from wrist-hold to hands-across. I'll ask some
folks next Monday.

On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 9:21 PM, Susan McElroy-Marcus <
smcelroymar...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> Just a bit of Louisville dance community history on this subject—when my
> husband started dancing there in the late 70’s and I came in 1982, the
> Monday night dance was a mix of English and contra.  The default
> contradance star grip was the “wrist lock” not hands across as in English.
> We called it a basket handhold or wrist grip.  Our influence came from New
> England because our friend, Norb Spencer, who started the group along with
> Marie and Frank (Cassidy?) and who called much of the time—learned in New
> England.  We then taught it that way when we moved to Cincinnati and
> started that group.  Louisville only became a “bastion of
> hands-across-by-default” sometime in the late 1990’s or ealy 2000’s during
> my calling hiatus.  When I re-entered the calling scene 6-7 years ago, I
> was surprised and bemused upon calling in Louisville to learn of the high
> regard held for their ‘traditional’ hands-across star style.
> Susan McElroy-Marcus
>
> *From:* Chet Gray via Callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net>
> *Sent:* Monday, October 10, 2016 9:44 AM
> *To:* Tim Klein <mrtimkl...@yahoo.com>
> *Cc:* callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> *Subject:* Re: [Callers] Wrist-Lock Stars
>
> I tend to consider my home dance, Louisville, KY, and nearby Lexington, as
> two of the last bastions of hands-across-by-default. Wrist-grip seems to be
> the default (for contra; squares are a different matter) even in relatively
> nearby cities: Indianapolis, Bloomington, IN, Nashville, Cincinnati. Not
> sure about Berea and Somerset, KY, also nearby.
>
> I'd be hesitant to use weekends, Flurry in particular, as bellwethers of
> what is typical in anything but weekends. I'd wager that the vast majority
> of contra dancers, even habitual dancers, have never been to a dance
> weekend, perhaps not even their "home" weekend. Just as there is a sort of
> "weekend-style" dance program, there is a "weekend-style" of dancing that
> is a pidgin not necessarily representative of any particular regional style.
>
> On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 9:41 AM, Tim Klein via Callers <
> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> I call for dances in Knoxville, TN and occasionally in the surrounding
>> area (Jonesboro, Chattanooga). I've been dancing here for 30 years. Kaufman
>> was correct. I recall hands across stars in Knoxville, Atlanta, Brasstown,
>> Asheville and points between, but wrist grip stars in Lexington, Louisville
>> and Nashville. I'm certain about Knoxville, but perhaps others can confirm
>> for the other cities.
>>
>> The wrist star has gradually taken over as the default in the area, but a
>> couple of us old-timers are still holding out. I still teach the hands
>> across star in the pre-dance lesson because it's quicker, but acknowledge
>> that there are variations. When I call and dance, I still prompt and
>> encourage the hands-across grip. We've got to hold onto our traditions and
>> fight the globalization of contra, right?
>>
>> Of course, there are situations where one variety works better than
>> another - to/from a move with an adjacent person (star to alemande,
>> courtesy turn to star) suggests a wrist star, while moves where the contact
>> is across (star old neighbors to star with new, ladies start star then
>> gents join in) suggest the hands across. In those cases, I'll explicitly
>> suggest one version in the walk through.
>>
>> Tim Klein
>> Knoxville, TN
>>
>> --
>> *From:* Dave Casserly via Callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net>
>> *To:* John Sweeney <j...@modernjive.com>
>> *Cc:* "callers@lists.sharedweight.net" <callers@lists.sharedweight.net>
>> *Sent:* Monday, October 10, 2016 8:37 AM
>> *Subject:* Re: [Callers] Wrist-Lock Stars
>>
>> Jeff Kaufman wrote a paper on regional variations in contra dance.
>> Here's what he found
>> <https://www.swarthmore.edu/sites/default/files/assets/documents/linguistics/2007_kaufman_jeff.pdf>
>> for wrist-grip stars (page 31 of the link).  Basically, they're common
>> everywhere in the US except in some parts of the South.  This is based on
>> data from ten or more years ago, so I'm not sure if that's still true.  I
>> would not be surpr

Re: [Callers] Wrist-Lock Stars

[Colin Hume via Callers]

On Tue, 11 Oct 2016 00:14:48 -0700, Alan Winston via Callers wrote:
> go back far enough (1700s) and you get "moulinet" in French sources, "mill" 
> in some English sources,f or what I'm
> pretty sure are hands-across stars.

In the Netherlands it's called "molen" which means "windmill".  That's for 
English though; I don't know what they say in contras.

Colin Hume

Email co...@colinhume.com  Web site http://colinhume.com

Re: [Callers] Wrist-Lock Stars

[Alan Winston via Callers]

go back far enough (1700s) and you get "moulinet" in French sources, 
"mill" in some English sources,f or what I'm pretty sure are 
hands-across stars.



-- Alan Winston


On 10/10/16 9:57 AM, Robert Livingston via Callers wrote:
Millstone or "windmill" - term I've seen used in print for older 
Canadian dances.


Bob Livingston



*From:* Angela DeCarlis via Callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net>
*To:* Jacob or Nancy Bloom <jandnbl...@gmail.com>
*Cc:* callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net>
*Sent:* Monday, October 10, 2016 12:45 PM
*Subject:* Re: [Callers] Wrist-Lock Stars

I've never heard "millstone" or "mill" before, but it sounds like it 
has precedence. My guess is that it was (is?) a useful term at dances 
where hands-across stars are default. Since that isn't generally the 
case in many places any longer, it makes sense that "hands-across" has 
become the more useful modifier.


On Oct 10, 2016 11:37 AM, "Jacob or Nancy Bloom via Callers" 
<callers@lists.sharedweight.net 
<mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net>> wrote:


When I attended the Berea Christmas Dance School forty years ago,
and put my hand on the wrist in front of me during a walk through,
someone complained, saying, "He said a star, not a mill!"

Is the term "mill", or the term "millstone", commonly used to
refer to wrist stars in areas where hands-across is the default
way of doing a star?

Jacob Bloom


On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 10:29 AM, Jerome Grisanti via Callers
<callers@lists.sharedweight. net
<mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net>> wrote:

I agree with Chet that Louisville's default star is
hands-across, although weekend festivals in nearby cities tend
toward the millstone star. I avoid the terms wrist-lock or
even wrist-grip star, as I prefer the fingers to lay atop the
adjoining wrist without using the thumb to "grip" in any way.

The Midwest where I dance/call now is pretty solidly
wrist-star territory (St. Louis, Columbia MO, Kansas City,
Lawrence). When I call one-night events (parties, weddings), I
dictate hands-across stars, but when calling for an
established contra community I ask for the default.

--Jerome


Jerome Grisanti
660-528-0858
http://www.jeromegrisanti.com <http://www.jeromegrisanti.com/>

"Whatever you do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has
genius and power and magic in it." --Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 3:31 AM, John Sweeney via Callers
<call...@lists.sharedweight.ne t
<mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net>> wrote:

Hi all,
I have been to contra dances and festivals all
over America and
everywhere I have danced everyone automatically uses a
wrist-lock star
(unless the caller has specified hands-across because of
the subsequent
choreography).

But I am constantly challenged in England by
people claiming that
wrist-lock stars are not the standard in America.

When I go to somewhere like The Flurry and see 600
people from all
over the country all doing wrist-locks it seems to me that
it must be the
standard way of doing things.

And obviously it has been common in America for a
long time; this
video is from 1964 in Northern Vermont and shows
wrist-lock stars:
https://www.youtube.com/watch? v=pZubTju7g_s
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZubTju7g_s>

So, are there still significant communities that
don't use
wrist-locks?

Is the wrist-lock the de facto standard?

Thanks.

Happy dancing,
   John

John Sweeney, Dancer, England j...@modernjive.com
<mailto:j...@modernjive.com> 01233 625 362 & 07802
940 574
http://www.modernjive.com <http://www.modernjive.com/> for
Modern Jive Events & DVDs
http://www.contrafusion.co.uk
<http://www.contrafusion.co.uk/> for Dancing in Kent



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Re: [Callers] Wrist-Lock Stars

[Andrea Nettleton via Callers]

John, 
Somewhere south of Asheville and leading west possibly into the lower Midwest, 
is the land of hands across stars.  They are standard in Atlanta, the heart of 
hands-across-land.
Andrea

Sent from my external brain

> On Oct 10, 2016, at 8:37 AM, Dave Casserly via Callers 
>  wrote:
> 
> Jeff Kaufman wrote a paper on regional variations in contra dance.  Here's 
> what he found for wrist-grip stars (page 31 of the link).  Basically, they're 
> common everywhere in the US except in some parts of the South.  This is based 
> on data from ten or more years ago, so I'm not sure if that's still true.  I 
> would not be surprised if it isn't-- there's enough cross-contamination that 
> wrist-grips could have taken over even in the South.  We do have people from 
> Georgia and North Carolina on the list; hopefully they'll chime in.
> 
> -Dave
> Washington, DC
> 
>> On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 4:31 AM, John Sweeney via Callers 
>>  wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> I have been to contra dances and festivals all over America and
>> everywhere I have danced everyone automatically uses a wrist-lock star
>> (unless the caller has specified hands-across because of the subsequent
>> choreography).
>> 
>> But I am constantly challenged in England by people claiming that
>> wrist-lock stars are not the standard in America.
>> 
>> When I go to somewhere like The Flurry and see 600 people from all
>> over the country all doing wrist-locks it seems to me that it must be the
>> standard way of doing things.
>> 
>> And obviously it has been common in America for a long time; this
>> video is from 1964 in Northern Vermont and shows wrist-lock stars:
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZubTju7g_s
>> 
>> So, are there still significant communities that don't use
>> wrist-locks?
>> 
>> Is the wrist-lock the de facto standard?
>> 
>> Thanks.
>> 
>> Happy dancing,
>>John
>> 
>> John Sweeney, Dancer, England   j...@modernjive.com 01233 625 362 & 07802
>> 940 574
>> http://www.modernjive.com for Modern Jive Events & DVDs
>> http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> Callers mailing list
>> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> David Casserly
> (cell) 781 258-2761
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net

Re: [Callers] Wrist-Lock Stars

[Susan McElroy-Marcus via Callers]

Just a bit of Louisville dance community history on this subject—when my 
husband started dancing there in the late 70’s and I came in 1982, the Monday 
night dance was a mix of English and contra.  The default contradance star grip 
was the “wrist lock” not hands across as in English.  We called it a basket 
handhold or wrist grip.  Our influence came from New England because our 
friend, Norb Spencer, who started the group along with Marie and Frank 
(Cassidy?) and who called much of the time—learned in New England.  We then 
taught it that way when we moved to Cincinnati and started that group.  
Louisville only became a “bastion of hands-across-by-default” sometime in the 
late 1990’s or ealy 2000’s during my calling hiatus.  When I re-entered the 
calling scene 6-7 years ago, I was surprised and bemused upon calling in 
Louisville to learn of the high regard held for their ‘traditional’ 
hands-across star style.
Susan McElroy-Marcus

From: Chet Gray via Callers 
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2016 9:44 AM
To: Tim Klein 
Cc: callers@lists.sharedweight.net 
Subject: Re: [Callers] Wrist-Lock Stars

I tend to consider my home dance, Louisville, KY, and nearby Lexington, as two 
of the last bastions of hands-across-by-default. Wrist-grip seems to be the 
default (for contra; squares are a different matter) even in relatively nearby 
cities: Indianapolis, Bloomington, IN, Nashville, Cincinnati. Not sure about 
Berea and Somerset, KY, also nearby. 

I'd be hesitant to use weekends, Flurry in particular, as bellwethers of what 
is typical in anything but weekends. I'd wager that the vast majority of contra 
dancers, even habitual dancers, have never been to a dance weekend, perhaps not 
even their "home" weekend. Just as there is a sort of "weekend-style" dance 
program, there is a "weekend-style" of dancing that is a pidgin not necessarily 
representative of any particular regional style.

On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 9:41 AM, Tim Klein via Callers 
<callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

  I call for dances in Knoxville, TN and occasionally in the surrounding area 
(Jonesboro, Chattanooga). I've been dancing here for 30 years. Kaufman was 
correct. I recall hands across stars in Knoxville, Atlanta, Brasstown, 
Asheville and points between, but wrist grip stars in Lexington, Louisville and 
Nashville. I'm certain about Knoxville, but perhaps others can confirm for the 
other cities.



  The wrist star has gradually taken over as the default in the area, but a 
couple of us old-timers are still holding out. I still teach the hands across 
star in the pre-dance lesson because it's quicker, but acknowledge that there 
are variations. When I call and dance, I still prompt and encourage the 
hands-across grip. We've got to hold onto our traditions and fight the 
globalization of contra, right?



  Of course, there are situations where one variety works better than another - 
to/from a move with an adjacent person (star to alemande, courtesy turn to 
star) suggests a wrist star, while moves where the contact is across (star old 
neighbors to star with new, ladies start star then gents join in) suggest the 
hands across. In those cases, I'll explicitly suggest one version in the walk 
through.

  Tim Klein
  Knoxville, TN


--
  From: Dave Casserly via Callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net>
  To: John Sweeney <j...@modernjive.com> 
  Cc: "callers@lists.sharedweight.net" <callers@lists.sharedweight.net>
  Sent: Monday, October 10, 2016 8:37 AM
  Subject: Re: [Callers] Wrist-Lock Stars


  Jeff Kaufman wrote a paper on regional variations in contra dance.  Here's 
what he found for wrist-grip stars (page 31 of the link).  Basically, they're 
common everywhere in the US except in some parts of the South.  This is based 
on data from ten or more years ago, so I'm not sure if that's still true.  I 
would not be surprised if it isn't-- there's enough cross-contamination that 
wrist-grips could have taken over even in the South.  We do have people from 
Georgia and North Carolina on the list; hopefully they'll chime in. 

  -Dave
  Washington, DC

  On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 4:31 AM, John Sweeney via Callers 
<callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

Hi all,
I have been to contra dances and festivals all over America and
everywhere I have danced everyone automatically uses a wrist-lock star
(unless the caller has specified hands-across because of the subsequent
choreography).

But I am constantly challenged in England by people claiming that
wrist-lock stars are not the standard in America.

When I go to somewhere like The Flurry and see 600 people from all
over the country all doing wrist-locks it seems to me that it must be the
standard way of doing things.

And obviously it has been common in America for 

Re: [Callers] Wrist-Lock Stars

[Joy Greenwolfe via Callers]

Central North Carolina here. In this region, wrist-grip or wagon-wheel stars 
are the default. Some dances specify hands-across if the choreography asks for 
it. 

Joy Greenwolfe
Durham, NC

> On Oct 10, 2016, at 4:34 PM, Read Weaver via Callers 
>  wrote:
> 
> When I’m teaching, I make the point that it’s pretty much the only move in 
> contra where you _shouldn’t_ give weight even though you could—human wrists 
> being neither strong nor flexible in that direction. And that if someone 
> behind you is uncomfortably giving weight, you can just let go and turn it 
> into a single file for yourself, since you’re not giving weight to aid the 
> circle's momentum anyway.
> 
> Read Weaver
> Jamaica Plain, MA
> http://lcfd.org 
>> On Oct 10, 2016, at 1:49 PM, Don Veino via Callers 
>> > 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Not sure how I came by it, but I call them "pack saddle" stars when I teach 
>> beginners ("wrist-lock", no). "Raise your right hand, put it in the center 
>> and now lay it on the wrist of the person in front of you, like a pack 
>> saddle on a horse, to make a star. Notice you don't need to clamp on or even 
>> really use your thumb at all."
>> 
>> And yes, very much the default star form from my experience.
>> 
>> ___
>> Callers mailing list
>> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net 
>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
> 
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net

Re: [Callers] Wrist-Lock Stars

[Neal Schlein via Callers]

Whatever you call it (some of the other terms come from square dances of
particular names, such as Old Mill Wheel or the Wagonwheel Star), today a
wrist star is the US standard for most of the country.

That said, the square dance movement uses a palm-in star (which I
personally prefer for most applications and find prettier). That was the
standard style around Colorado in the 1930s when Lloyd Shaw got started,
and for many years after.  Pretty much, you'll only find it among square
dancers, people who danced with Calico and Boots in Boulder, Colorado, or
folks with an exaggerated respect for history.  Guess I qualify as all
three.

Neal Schlein
Youth Services Librarian, Mahomet Public Library

Re: [Callers] Wrist-Lock Stars

[Louise Siddons via Callers]

Here in Oklahoma I call it a wagon-wheel grip, but I think I picked up that 
term in either Michigan or California when I was starting to dance contra circa 
2008. Wagon-wheel stars are the default in OK/TX/KS/MO local dances, and also 
seem standard in the SF Bay Area. 

When I teach a star in a room with a lot of new dancers, I say “our convention 
here is to make a wagon-wheel in the middle — your hand should be on the wrist 
of the person in front of you.” Our intro workshops usually speak to the 
question of grip (nothing the other person can’t get out of wordlessly without 
injury, please), so we don’t generally get people who are gripping tightly.

Incidentally, I enjoy the wagon wheel as a moment when experienced dancers can 
help new dancers have an “ah ha!” moment without disrupting my teaching. It’s a 
neat opportunity to introduce the concept of dancers being able to learn 
details of technique from each other, which I hope then continues throughout 
the evening.

Louise
(Stillwater, OK)

Re: [Callers] Wrist-Lock Stars

[Read Weaver via Callers]

When I’m teaching, I make the point that it’s pretty much the only move in 
contra where you _shouldn’t_ give weight even though you could—human wrists 
being neither strong nor flexible in that direction. And that if someone behind 
you is uncomfortably giving weight, you can just let go and turn it into a 
single file for yourself, since you’re not giving weight to aid the circle's 
momentum anyway.

Read Weaver
Jamaica Plain, MA
http://lcfd.org

> On Oct 10, 2016, at 1:49 PM, Don Veino via Callers 
>  wrote:
> 
> Not sure how I came by it, but I call them "pack saddle" stars when I teach 
> beginners ("wrist-lock", no). "Raise your right hand, put it in the center 
> and now lay it on the wrist of the person in front of you, like a pack saddle 
> on a horse, to make a star. Notice you don't need to clamp on or even really 
> use your thumb at all."
> 
> And yes, very much the default star form from my experience.
> 
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net

Re: [Callers] Wrist-Lock Stars

[Don Veino via Callers]

Not sure how I came by it, but I call them "pack saddle" stars when I teach
beginners ("wrist-lock", no). "Raise your right hand, put it in the center
and now lay it on the wrist of the person in front of you, like a pack
saddle on a horse, to make a star. Notice you don't need to clamp on or
even really use your thumb at all."

And yes, very much the default star form from my experience.

Re: [Callers] Wrist-Lock Stars

[Meg Dedolph via Callers]

Checking in from Chicago, where wrist-grip stars are the norm and
hands-across stars need to be specified  When I started dancing, 14 or
15 years ago, in Michigan, many dancers reached for a hands-across star
first, though I don't see that so much anymore.
Meg

On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 12:00 PM Robert Livingston via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Millstone or  "windmill" - term I've seen used in print for older Canadian
> dances.
>
> Bob Livingston
>
>
> --
> *From:* Angela DeCarlis via Callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net>
> *To:* Jacob or Nancy Bloom <jandnbl...@gmail.com>
> *Cc:* callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net>
> *Sent:* Monday, October 10, 2016 12:45 PM
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Callers] Wrist-Lock Stars
> I've never heard "millstone" or "mill" before, but it sounds like it has
> precedence. My guess is that it was (is?) a useful term at dances where
> hands-across stars are default. Since that isn't generally the case in many
> places any longer, it makes sense that "hands-across" has become the more
> useful modifier.
> On Oct 10, 2016 11:37 AM, "Jacob or Nancy Bloom via Callers" <
> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> When I attended the Berea Christmas Dance School forty years ago, and put
> my hand on the wrist in front of me during a walk through, someone
> complained, saying, "He said a star, not a mill!"
>
> Is the term "mill", or the term "millstone", commonly used to refer to
> wrist stars in areas where hands-across is the default way of doing a star?
>
> Jacob Bloom
>
> On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 10:29 AM, Jerome Grisanti via Callers 
> <callers@lists.sharedweight.
> net <callers@lists.sharedweight.net>> wrote:
>
> I agree with Chet that Louisville's default star is hands-across, although
> weekend festivals in nearby cities tend toward the millstone star. I avoid
> the terms wrist-lock or even wrist-grip star, as I prefer the fingers to
> lay atop the adjoining wrist without using the thumb to "grip" in any way.
>
> The Midwest where I dance/call now is pretty solidly wrist-star territory
> (St. Louis, Columbia MO, Kansas City, Lawrence). When I call one-night
> events (parties, weddings), I dictate hands-across stars, but when calling
> for an established contra community I ask for the default.
>
> --Jerome
>
>
> Jerome Grisanti
> 660-528-0858
> http://www.jeromegrisanti.com
>
> "Whatever you do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius and
> power and magic in it." --Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
>
> On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 3:31 AM, John Sweeney via Callers 
> <call...@lists.sharedweight.ne
> t <callers@lists.sharedweight.net>> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
> I have been to contra dances and festivals all over America and
> everywhere I have danced everyone automatically uses a wrist-lock star
> (unless the caller has specified hands-across because of the subsequent
> choreography).
>
> But I am constantly challenged in England by people claiming that
> wrist-lock stars are not the standard in America.
>
> When I go to somewhere like The Flurry and see 600 people from all
> over the country all doing wrist-locks it seems to me that it must be the
> standard way of doing things.
>
> And obviously it has been common in America for a long time; this
> video is from 1964 in Northern Vermont and shows wrist-lock stars:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch? v=pZubTju7g_s
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZubTju7g_s>
>
> So, are there still significant communities that don't use
> wrist-locks?
>
> Is the wrist-lock the de facto standard?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Happy dancing,
>John
>
> John Sweeney, Dancer, England   j...@modernjive.com 01233 625 362 & 07802
> 940 574
> http://www.modernjive.com for Modern Jive Events & DVDs
> http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent
>
>
>
> __ _
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/ listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedwei ght.net
> <http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net>
>
>
>
> __ _
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/ listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedwei ght.net
> <http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net>
>
>
>
>
> --
> jandnbl...@gmail.com
> http://jacobbloom.net/
>
&

Re: [Callers] Wrist-Lock Stars

[Robert Livingston via Callers]

Millstone or  "windmill" - term I've seen used in print for older Canadian 
dances.
Bob Livingston


  From: Angela DeCarlis via Callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net>
 To: Jacob or Nancy Bloom <jandnbl...@gmail.com> 
Cc: callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net>
 Sent: Monday, October 10, 2016 12:45 PM
 Subject: Re: [Callers] Wrist-Lock Stars
   
I've never heard "millstone" or "mill" before, but it sounds like it has 
precedence. My guess is that it was (is?) a useful term at dances where 
hands-across stars are default. Since that isn't generally the case in many 
places any longer, it makes sense that "hands-across" has become the more 
useful modifier. 
On Oct 10, 2016 11:37 AM, "Jacob or Nancy Bloom via Callers" 
<callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

When I attended the Berea Christmas Dance School forty years ago, and put my 
hand on the wrist in front of me during a walk through, someone complained, 
saying, "He said a star, not a mill!"
Is the term "mill", or the term "millstone", commonly used to refer to wrist 
stars in areas where hands-across is the default way of doing a star?
Jacob Bloom

On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 10:29 AM, Jerome Grisanti via Callers 
<callers@lists.sharedweight. net> wrote:

I agree with Chet that Louisville's default star is hands-across, although 
weekend festivals in nearby cities tend toward the millstone star. I avoid the 
terms wrist-lock or even wrist-grip star, as I prefer the fingers to lay atop 
the adjoining wrist without using the thumb to "grip" in any way.
The Midwest where I dance/call now is pretty solidly wrist-star territory (St. 
Louis, Columbia MO, Kansas City, Lawrence). When I call one-night events 
(parties, weddings), I dictate hands-across stars, but when calling for an 
established contra community I ask for the default.
--Jerome

Jerome Grisanti
660-528-0858
http://www.jeromegrisanti.com

"Whatever you do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius and power and 
magic in it." --Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 3:31 AM, John Sweeney via Callers 
<call...@lists.sharedweight.ne t> wrote:

Hi all,
        I have been to contra dances and festivals all over America and
everywhere I have danced everyone automatically uses a wrist-lock star
(unless the caller has specified hands-across because of the subsequent
choreography).

        But I am constantly challenged in England by people claiming that
wrist-lock stars are not the standard in America.

        When I go to somewhere like The Flurry and see 600 people from all
over the country all doing wrist-locks it seems to me that it must be the
standard way of doing things.

        And obviously it has been common in America for a long time; this
video is from 1964 in Northern Vermont and shows wrist-lock stars:
https://www.youtube.com/watch? v=pZubTju7g_s

        So, are there still significant communities that don't use
wrist-locks?

        Is the wrist-lock the de facto standard?

        Thanks.

    Happy dancing,
   John

John Sweeney, Dancer, England   j...@modernjive.com 01233 625 362 & 07802
940 574
http://www.modernjive.com for Modern Jive Events & DVDs
http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent



__ _
Callers mailing list
Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/ listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedwei ght.net



__ _
Callers mailing list
Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
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-- 
jandnbloom@gmail.comhttp://jacobbloom.net/

__ _
Callers mailing list
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___
Callers mailing list
Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net


   

Re: [Callers] Wrist-Lock Stars

[Angela DeCarlis via Callers]

I've never heard "millstone" or "mill" before, but it sounds like it has
precedence. My guess is that it was (is?) a useful term at dances where
hands-across stars are default. Since that isn't generally the case in many
places any longer, it makes sense that "hands-across" has become the more
useful modifier.

On Oct 10, 2016 11:37 AM, "Jacob or Nancy Bloom via Callers" <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> When I attended the Berea Christmas Dance School forty years ago, and put
> my hand on the wrist in front of me during a walk through, someone
> complained, saying, "He said a star, not a mill!"
>
> Is the term "mill", or the term "millstone", commonly used to refer to
> wrist stars in areas where hands-across is the default way of doing a star?
>
> Jacob Bloom
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 10:29 AM, Jerome Grisanti via Callers <
> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> I agree with Chet that Louisville's default star is hands-across,
>> although weekend festivals in nearby cities tend toward the millstone star.
>> I avoid the terms wrist-lock or even wrist-grip star, as I prefer the
>> fingers to lay atop the adjoining wrist without using the thumb to "grip"
>> in any way.
>>
>> The Midwest where I dance/call now is pretty solidly wrist-star territory
>> (St. Louis, Columbia MO, Kansas City, Lawrence). When I call one-night
>> events (parties, weddings), I dictate hands-across stars, but when calling
>> for an established contra community I ask for the default.
>>
>> --Jerome
>>
>>
>> Jerome Grisanti
>> 660-528-0858
>> http://www.jeromegrisanti.com
>>
>> "Whatever you do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius and
>> power and magic in it." --Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 3:31 AM, John Sweeney via Callers <
>> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>> I have been to contra dances and festivals all over America and
>>> everywhere I have danced everyone automatically uses a wrist-lock star
>>> (unless the caller has specified hands-across because of the subsequent
>>> choreography).
>>>
>>> But I am constantly challenged in England by people claiming that
>>> wrist-lock stars are not the standard in America.
>>>
>>> When I go to somewhere like The Flurry and see 600 people from
>>> all
>>> over the country all doing wrist-locks it seems to me that it must be the
>>> standard way of doing things.
>>>
>>> And obviously it has been common in America for a long time; this
>>> video is from 1964 in Northern Vermont and shows wrist-lock stars:
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZubTju7g_s
>>>
>>> So, are there still significant communities that don't use
>>> wrist-locks?
>>>
>>> Is the wrist-lock the de facto standard?
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> Happy dancing,
>>>John
>>>
>>> John Sweeney, Dancer, England   j...@modernjive.com 01233 625 362 &
>>> 07802
>>> 940 574
>>> http://www.modernjive.com for Modern Jive Events & DVDs
>>> http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Callers mailing list
>>> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
>>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Callers mailing list
>> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> jandnbl...@gmail.com
> http://jacobbloom.net/
>
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>
>

Re: [Callers] Wrist-Lock Stars

[Jacob or Nancy Bloom via Callers]

When I attended the Berea Christmas Dance School forty years ago, and put
my hand on the wrist in front of me during a walk through, someone
complained, saying, "He said a star, not a mill!"

Is the term "mill", or the term "millstone", commonly used to refer to
wrist stars in areas where hands-across is the default way of doing a star?

Jacob Bloom


On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 10:29 AM, Jerome Grisanti via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> I agree with Chet that Louisville's default star is hands-across, although
> weekend festivals in nearby cities tend toward the millstone star. I avoid
> the terms wrist-lock or even wrist-grip star, as I prefer the fingers to
> lay atop the adjoining wrist without using the thumb to "grip" in any way.
>
> The Midwest where I dance/call now is pretty solidly wrist-star territory
> (St. Louis, Columbia MO, Kansas City, Lawrence). When I call one-night
> events (parties, weddings), I dictate hands-across stars, but when calling
> for an established contra community I ask for the default.
>
> --Jerome
>
>
> Jerome Grisanti
> 660-528-0858
> http://www.jeromegrisanti.com
>
> "Whatever you do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius and
> power and magic in it." --Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
>
> On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 3:31 AM, John Sweeney via Callers <
> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>> I have been to contra dances and festivals all over America and
>> everywhere I have danced everyone automatically uses a wrist-lock star
>> (unless the caller has specified hands-across because of the subsequent
>> choreography).
>>
>> But I am constantly challenged in England by people claiming that
>> wrist-lock stars are not the standard in America.
>>
>> When I go to somewhere like The Flurry and see 600 people from all
>> over the country all doing wrist-locks it seems to me that it must be the
>> standard way of doing things.
>>
>> And obviously it has been common in America for a long time; this
>> video is from 1964 in Northern Vermont and shows wrist-lock stars:
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZubTju7g_s
>>
>> So, are there still significant communities that don't use
>> wrist-locks?
>>
>> Is the wrist-lock the de facto standard?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Happy dancing,
>>John
>>
>> John Sweeney, Dancer, England   j...@modernjive.com 01233 625 362 & 07802
>> 940 574
>> http://www.modernjive.com for Modern Jive Events & DVDs
>> http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Callers mailing list
>> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>>
>
>
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>
>


-- 
jandnbl...@gmail.com
http://jacobbloom.net/

Re: [Callers] Wrist-Lock Stars

[Jerome Grisanti via Callers]

I agree with Chet that Louisville's default star is hands-across, although
weekend festivals in nearby cities tend toward the millstone star. I avoid
the terms wrist-lock or even wrist-grip star, as I prefer the fingers to
lay atop the adjoining wrist without using the thumb to "grip" in any way.

The Midwest where I dance/call now is pretty solidly wrist-star territory
(St. Louis, Columbia MO, Kansas City, Lawrence). When I call one-night
events (parties, weddings), I dictate hands-across stars, but when calling
for an established contra community I ask for the default.

--Jerome


Jerome Grisanti
660-528-0858
http://www.jeromegrisanti.com

"Whatever you do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius and power
and magic in it." --Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 3:31 AM, John Sweeney via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Hi all,
> I have been to contra dances and festivals all over America and
> everywhere I have danced everyone automatically uses a wrist-lock star
> (unless the caller has specified hands-across because of the subsequent
> choreography).
>
> But I am constantly challenged in England by people claiming that
> wrist-lock stars are not the standard in America.
>
> When I go to somewhere like The Flurry and see 600 people from all
> over the country all doing wrist-locks it seems to me that it must be the
> standard way of doing things.
>
> And obviously it has been common in America for a long time; this
> video is from 1964 in Northern Vermont and shows wrist-lock stars:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZubTju7g_s
>
> So, are there still significant communities that don't use
> wrist-locks?
>
> Is the wrist-lock the de facto standard?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Happy dancing,
>John
>
> John Sweeney, Dancer, England   j...@modernjive.com 01233 625 362 & 07802
> 940 574
> http://www.modernjive.com for Modern Jive Events & DVDs
> http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent
>
>
>
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>

Re: [Callers] Wrist-Lock Stars

[Angela DeCarlis via Callers]

Where I've called recently, in the Northeast and in New England, wrist-grip
is definitely the default, and I wasn't aware that parts of the south
default to hands-across. Neat!

Here to comment that Florida, where I'm from originally, holds true to its
role as the Exception to the Rule: despite being in the South, they
definitely default to wrist-grip there, as well.

Angela

On Oct 10, 2016 9:44 AM, "Chet Gray via Callers" <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> I tend to consider my home dance, Louisville, KY, and nearby Lexington, as
> two of the last bastions of hands-across-by-default. Wrist-grip seems to be
> the default (for contra; squares are a different matter) even in relatively
> nearby cities: Indianapolis, Bloomington, IN, Nashville, Cincinnati. Not
> sure about Berea and Somerset, KY, also nearby.
>
> I'd be hesitant to use weekends, Flurry in particular, as bellwethers of
> what is typical in anything but weekends. I'd wager that the vast majority
> of contra dancers, even habitual dancers, have never been to a dance
> weekend, perhaps not even their "home" weekend. Just as there is a sort of
> "weekend-style" dance program, there is a "weekend-style" of dancing that
> is a pidgin not necessarily representative of any particular regional style.
>
> On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 9:41 AM, Tim Klein via Callers <
> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> I call for dances in Knoxville, TN and occasionally in the surrounding
>> area (Jonesboro, Chattanooga). I've been dancing here for 30 years. Kaufman
>> was correct. I recall hands across stars in Knoxville, Atlanta, Brasstown,
>> Asheville and points between, but wrist grip stars in Lexington, Louisville
>> and Nashville. I'm certain about Knoxville, but perhaps others can confirm
>> for the other cities.
>>
>> The wrist star has gradually taken over as the default in the area, but a
>> couple of us old-timers are still holding out. I still teach the hands
>> across star in the pre-dance lesson because it's quicker, but acknowledge
>> that there are variations. When I call and dance, I still prompt and
>> encourage the hands-across grip. We've got to hold onto our traditions and
>> fight the globalization of contra, right?
>>
>> Of course, there are situations where one variety works better than
>> another - to/from a move with an adjacent person (star to alemande,
>> courtesy turn to star) suggests a wrist star, while moves where the contact
>> is across (star old neighbors to star with new, ladies start star then
>> gents join in) suggest the hands across. In those cases, I'll explicitly
>> suggest one version in the walk through.
>>
>> Tim Klein
>> Knoxville, TN
>>
>> --
>> *From:* Dave Casserly via Callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net>
>> *To:* John Sweeney <j...@modernjive.com>
>> *Cc:* "callers@lists.sharedweight.net" <callers@lists.sharedweight.net>
>> *Sent:* Monday, October 10, 2016 8:37 AM
>> *Subject:* Re: [Callers] Wrist-Lock Stars
>>
>> Jeff Kaufman wrote a paper on regional variations in contra dance.
>> Here's what he found
>> <https://www.swarthmore.edu/sites/default/files/assets/documents/linguistics/2007_kaufman_jeff.pdf>
>> for wrist-grip stars (page 31 of the link).  Basically, they're common
>> everywhere in the US except in some parts of the South.  This is based on
>> data from ten or more years ago, so I'm not sure if that's still true.  I
>> would not be surprised if it isn't-- there's enough cross-contamination
>> that wrist-grips could have taken over even in the South.  We do have
>> people from Georgia and North Carolina on the list; hopefully they'll chime
>> in.
>>
>> -Dave
>> Washington, DC
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 4:31 AM, John Sweeney via Callers <
>> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>> I have been to contra dances and festivals all over America and
>> everywhere I have danced everyone automatically uses a wrist-lock star
>> (unless the caller has specified hands-across because of the subsequent
>> choreography).
>>
>> But I am constantly challenged in England by people claiming that
>> wrist-lock stars are not the standard in America.
>>
>> When I go to somewhere like The Flurry and see 600 people from all
>> over the country all doing wrist-locks it seems to me that it must be the
>> standard way of doing things.
>>
>> And obviously it has been common in America for a long time; this
>> video is from 1964 in

Re: [Callers] Wrist-Lock Stars

[Jane Thickstun via Callers]

When I was dancing in Michigan, I found it to be a mess, with maybe half
doing wrist grip and half hands-across, and everyone just throwing their
hands in the middle without doing either.  I wish callers would specify for
each dance which kind of star they recommend, to avoid this kind of thing.

Jane Thickstun
currently in Ithaca, NY

On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 9:41 AM, Tim Klein via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> I call for dances in Knoxville, TN and occasionally in the surrounding
> area (Jonesboro, Chattanooga). I've been dancing here for 30 years. Kaufman
> was correct. I recall hands across stars in Knoxville, Atlanta, Brasstown,
> Asheville and points between, but wrist grip stars in Lexington, Louisville
> and Nashville. I'm certain about Knoxville, but perhaps others can confirm
> for the other cities.
>
> The wrist star has gradually taken over as the default in the area, but a
> couple of us old-timers are still holding out. I still teach the hands
> across star in the pre-dance lesson because it's quicker, but acknowledge
> that there are variations. When I call and dance, I still prompt and
> encourage the hands-across grip. We've got to hold onto our traditions and
> fight the globalization of contra, right?
>
> Of course, there are situations where one variety works better than
> another - to/from a move with an adjacent person (star to alemande,
> courtesy turn to star) suggests a wrist star, while moves where the contact
> is across (star old neighbors to star with new, ladies start star then
> gents join in) suggest the hands across. In those cases, I'll explicitly
> suggest one version in the walk through.
>
> Tim Klein
> Knoxville, TN
>
> --
> *From:* Dave Casserly via Callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net>
> *To:* John Sweeney <j...@modernjive.com>
> *Cc:* "callers@lists.sharedweight.net" <callers@lists.sharedweight.net>
> *Sent:* Monday, October 10, 2016 8:37 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Callers] Wrist-Lock Stars
>
> Jeff Kaufman wrote a paper on regional variations in contra dance.  Here's 
> what
> he found
> <https://www.swarthmore.edu/sites/default/files/assets/documents/linguistics/2007_kaufman_jeff.pdf>
> for wrist-grip stars (page 31 of the link).  Basically, they're common
> everywhere in the US except in some parts of the South.  This is based on
> data from ten or more years ago, so I'm not sure if that's still true.  I
> would not be surprised if it isn't-- there's enough cross-contamination
> that wrist-grips could have taken over even in the South.  We do have
> people from Georgia and North Carolina on the list; hopefully they'll chime
> in.
>
> -Dave
> Washington, DC
>
> On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 4:31 AM, John Sweeney via Callers <
> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
> I have been to contra dances and festivals all over America and
> everywhere I have danced everyone automatically uses a wrist-lock star
> (unless the caller has specified hands-across because of the subsequent
> choreography).
>
> But I am constantly challenged in England by people claiming that
> wrist-lock stars are not the standard in America.
>
> When I go to somewhere like The Flurry and see 600 people from all
> over the country all doing wrist-locks it seems to me that it must be the
> standard way of doing things.
>
> And obviously it has been common in America for a long time; this
> video is from 1964 in Northern Vermont and shows wrist-lock stars:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch? v=pZubTju7g_s
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZubTju7g_s>
>
> So, are there still significant communities that don't use
> wrist-locks?
>
> Is the wrist-lock the de facto standard?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Happy dancing,
>John
>
> John Sweeney, Dancer, England   j...@modernjive.com 01233 625 362 & 07802
> 940 574
> http://www.modernjive.com for Modern Jive Events & DVDs
> http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent
>
>
>
> __ _
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/ listinfo.cgi/callers- sharedweight.net
> <http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net>
>
>
>
>
> --
> David Casserly
> (cell) 781 258-2761
>
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>
>
>
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>
>


-- 
Rev. Jane Thickstun
Interim Minister
First Unitarian Society of Ithaca

Re: [Callers] Wrist-Lock Stars

[Chet Gray via Callers]

I tend to consider my home dance, Louisville, KY, and nearby Lexington, as
two of the last bastions of hands-across-by-default. Wrist-grip seems to be
the default (for contra; squares are a different matter) even in relatively
nearby cities: Indianapolis, Bloomington, IN, Nashville, Cincinnati. Not
sure about Berea and Somerset, KY, also nearby.

I'd be hesitant to use weekends, Flurry in particular, as bellwethers of
what is typical in anything but weekends. I'd wager that the vast majority
of contra dancers, even habitual dancers, have never been to a dance
weekend, perhaps not even their "home" weekend. Just as there is a sort of
"weekend-style" dance program, there is a "weekend-style" of dancing that
is a pidgin not necessarily representative of any particular regional style.

On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 9:41 AM, Tim Klein via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> I call for dances in Knoxville, TN and occasionally in the surrounding
> area (Jonesboro, Chattanooga). I've been dancing here for 30 years. Kaufman
> was correct. I recall hands across stars in Knoxville, Atlanta, Brasstown,
> Asheville and points between, but wrist grip stars in Lexington, Louisville
> and Nashville. I'm certain about Knoxville, but perhaps others can confirm
> for the other cities.
>
> The wrist star has gradually taken over as the default in the area, but a
> couple of us old-timers are still holding out. I still teach the hands
> across star in the pre-dance lesson because it's quicker, but acknowledge
> that there are variations. When I call and dance, I still prompt and
> encourage the hands-across grip. We've got to hold onto our traditions and
> fight the globalization of contra, right?
>
> Of course, there are situations where one variety works better than
> another - to/from a move with an adjacent person (star to alemande,
> courtesy turn to star) suggests a wrist star, while moves where the contact
> is across (star old neighbors to star with new, ladies start star then
> gents join in) suggest the hands across. In those cases, I'll explicitly
> suggest one version in the walk through.
>
> Tim Klein
> Knoxville, TN
>
> --
> *From:* Dave Casserly via Callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net>
> *To:* John Sweeney <j...@modernjive.com>
> *Cc:* "callers@lists.sharedweight.net" <callers@lists.sharedweight.net>
> *Sent:* Monday, October 10, 2016 8:37 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Callers] Wrist-Lock Stars
>
> Jeff Kaufman wrote a paper on regional variations in contra dance.  Here's 
> what
> he found
> <https://www.swarthmore.edu/sites/default/files/assets/documents/linguistics/2007_kaufman_jeff.pdf>
> for wrist-grip stars (page 31 of the link).  Basically, they're common
> everywhere in the US except in some parts of the South.  This is based on
> data from ten or more years ago, so I'm not sure if that's still true.  I
> would not be surprised if it isn't-- there's enough cross-contamination
> that wrist-grips could have taken over even in the South.  We do have
> people from Georgia and North Carolina on the list; hopefully they'll chime
> in.
>
> -Dave
> Washington, DC
>
> On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 4:31 AM, John Sweeney via Callers <
> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
> I have been to contra dances and festivals all over America and
> everywhere I have danced everyone automatically uses a wrist-lock star
> (unless the caller has specified hands-across because of the subsequent
> choreography).
>
> But I am constantly challenged in England by people claiming that
> wrist-lock stars are not the standard in America.
>
> When I go to somewhere like The Flurry and see 600 people from all
> over the country all doing wrist-locks it seems to me that it must be the
> standard way of doing things.
>
> And obviously it has been common in America for a long time; this
> video is from 1964 in Northern Vermont and shows wrist-lock stars:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch? v=pZubTju7g_s
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZubTju7g_s>
>
> So, are there still significant communities that don't use
> wrist-locks?
>
> Is the wrist-lock the de facto standard?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Happy dancing,
>John
>
> John Sweeney, Dancer, England   j...@modernjive.com 01233 625 362 & 07802
> 940 574
> http://www.modernjive.com for Modern Jive Events & DVDs
> http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent
>
>
>
> __ _
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.shar

Re: [Callers] Wrist-Lock Stars

[Tim Klein via Callers]

I call for dances in Knoxville, TN and occasionally in the surrounding area 
(Jonesboro, Chattanooga). I've been dancing here for 30 years. Kaufman was 
correct. I recall hands across stars in Knoxville, Atlanta, Brasstown, 
Asheville and points between, but wrist grip stars in Lexington, Louisville and 
Nashville. I'm certain about Knoxville, but perhaps others can confirm for the 
other cities.

The wrist star has gradually taken over as the default in the area, but a 
couple of us old-timers are still holding out. I still teach the hands across 
star in the pre-dance lesson because it's quicker, but acknowledge that there 
are variations. When I call and dance, I still prompt and encourage the 
hands-across grip. We've got to hold onto our traditions and fight the 
globalization of contra, right?

Of course, there are situations where one variety works better than another - 
to/from a move with an adjacent person (star to alemande, courtesy turn to 
star) suggests a wrist star, while moves where the contact is across (star old 
neighbors to star with new, ladies start star then gents join in) suggest the 
hands across. In those cases, I'll explicitly suggest one version in the walk 
through.
Tim KleinKnoxville, TN
  From: Dave Casserly via Callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net>
 To: John Sweeney <j...@modernjive.com> 
Cc: "callers@lists.sharedweight.net" <callers@lists.sharedweight.net>
 Sent: Monday, October 10, 2016 8:37 AM
 Subject: Re: [Callers] Wrist-Lock Stars
   
Jeff Kaufman wrote a paper on regional variations in contra dance.  Here's what 
he found for wrist-grip stars (page 31 of the link).  Basically, they're common 
everywhere in the US except in some parts of the South.  This is based on data 
from ten or more years ago, so I'm not sure if that's still true.  I would not 
be surprised if it isn't-- there's enough cross-contamination that wrist-grips 
could have taken over even in the South.  We do have people from Georgia and 
North Carolina on the list; hopefully they'll chime in.
-DaveWashington, DC
On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 4:31 AM, John Sweeney via Callers 
<callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

Hi all,
        I have been to contra dances and festivals all over America and
everywhere I have danced everyone automatically uses a wrist-lock star
(unless the caller has specified hands-across because of the subsequent
choreography).

        But I am constantly challenged in England by people claiming that
wrist-lock stars are not the standard in America.

        When I go to somewhere like The Flurry and see 600 people from all
over the country all doing wrist-locks it seems to me that it must be the
standard way of doing things.

        And obviously it has been common in America for a long time; this
video is from 1964 in Northern Vermont and shows wrist-lock stars:
https://www.youtube.com/watch? v=pZubTju7g_s

        So, are there still significant communities that don't use
wrist-locks?

        Is the wrist-lock the de facto standard?

        Thanks.

    Happy dancing,
   John

John Sweeney, Dancer, England   j...@modernjive.com 01233 625 362 & 07802
940 574
http://www.modernjive.com for Modern Jive Events & DVDs
http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent



__ _
Callers mailing list
Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/ listinfo.cgi/callers- sharedweight.net




-- 
David Casserly
(cell) 781 258-2761
___
Callers mailing list
Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net


   

Re: [Callers] Wrist-Lock Stars

[Amy Wimmer via Callers]

The wrist lock is the common star formation in the Northwest, with a hands
across being the exception.
-Amy
Seattle

On Oct 10, 2016 5:37 AM, "Dave Casserly via Callers" <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Jeff Kaufman wrote a paper on regional variations in contra dance.  Here's 
> what
> he found
> 
> for wrist-grip stars (page 31 of the link).  Basically, they're common
> everywhere in the US except in some parts of the South.  This is based on
> data from ten or more years ago, so I'm not sure if that's still true.  I
> would not be surprised if it isn't-- there's enough cross-contamination
> that wrist-grips could have taken over even in the South.  We do have
> people from Georgia and North Carolina on the list; hopefully they'll chime
> in.
>
> -Dave
> Washington, DC
>
> On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 4:31 AM, John Sweeney via Callers <
> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>> I have been to contra dances and festivals all over America and
>> everywhere I have danced everyone automatically uses a wrist-lock star
>> (unless the caller has specified hands-across because of the subsequent
>> choreography).
>>
>> But I am constantly challenged in England by people claiming that
>> wrist-lock stars are not the standard in America.
>>
>> When I go to somewhere like The Flurry and see 600 people from all
>> over the country all doing wrist-locks it seems to me that it must be the
>> standard way of doing things.
>>
>> And obviously it has been common in America for a long time; this
>> video is from 1964 in Northern Vermont and shows wrist-lock stars:
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZubTju7g_s
>>
>> So, are there still significant communities that don't use
>> wrist-locks?
>>
>> Is the wrist-lock the de facto standard?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Happy dancing,
>>John
>>
>> John Sweeney, Dancer, England   j...@modernjive.com 01233 625 362 & 07802
>> 940 574
>> http://www.modernjive.com for Modern Jive Events & DVDs
>> http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Callers mailing list
>> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>>
>
>
>
> --
> David Casserly
> (cell) 781 258-2761
>
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>
>

Re: [Callers] Wrist-Lock Stars

[Dave Casserly via Callers]

Jeff Kaufman wrote a paper on regional variations in contra dance.  Here's what
he found

for wrist-grip stars (page 31 of the link).  Basically, they're common
everywhere in the US except in some parts of the South.  This is based on
data from ten or more years ago, so I'm not sure if that's still true.  I
would not be surprised if it isn't-- there's enough cross-contamination
that wrist-grips could have taken over even in the South.  We do have
people from Georgia and North Carolina on the list; hopefully they'll chime
in.

-Dave
Washington, DC

On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 4:31 AM, John Sweeney via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Hi all,
> I have been to contra dances and festivals all over America and
> everywhere I have danced everyone automatically uses a wrist-lock star
> (unless the caller has specified hands-across because of the subsequent
> choreography).
>
> But I am constantly challenged in England by people claiming that
> wrist-lock stars are not the standard in America.
>
> When I go to somewhere like The Flurry and see 600 people from all
> over the country all doing wrist-locks it seems to me that it must be the
> standard way of doing things.
>
> And obviously it has been common in America for a long time; this
> video is from 1964 in Northern Vermont and shows wrist-lock stars:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZubTju7g_s
>
> So, are there still significant communities that don't use
> wrist-locks?
>
> Is the wrist-lock the de facto standard?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Happy dancing,
>John
>
> John Sweeney, Dancer, England   j...@modernjive.com 01233 625 362 & 07802
> 940 574
> http://www.modernjive.com for Modern Jive Events & DVDs
> http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent
>
>
>
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>



-- 
David Casserly
(cell) 781 258-2761