Re: [cayugabirds-l] Moving the Christmas Count Date Earlier

[Anne Clark]

My observations from alternative scheduling strategies:   I participate in the 
count around Binghamton.  It is scheduled on a weekend before Christmas and is 
not always easy for folks, depending on such variables as the last dates at 
Binghamton University as well as holiday events. To keep it on a weekend, the 
date has to flex, which makes some years worse than others for counters.  And 
it makes it harder to plan ahead.

 The Jan 1st date seems like a good one for participation because it can be a 
set date, no matter the year.

Anne

On Dec 30, 2013, at 10:32 AM, Carol Schmitt wrote:

> I agree with Sandy.  The Jan. 1st date for the count has its origins with Doc 
> Allen, I believe.  He chose it since everyone would have a day off anyway and 
> this has worked for years.
>All of our data is based on this date so I would think that consistency 
> would have value.  (Kevin?)  Until recently, waterfowl numbers on Jan. 1st 
> were tremendous;  it is the current hunting season that is effecting us.
>I want to stick with our traditional date.  We might possibly have more 
> student participation if we picked another weekend, but many people leave 
> school earlier in December than you might think.  Also, those weekends before 
> Christmas are much in demand for other holiday parties, etc. (certainly true 
> for our household, so we’d be unlikely to participate in the future) and I 
> think we’d create more of a problem.
>I hope we can make some change on the hunting regulations at the south end 
> of the lake and improve the situation in that way.
> Carol Schmitt
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Sandy Podulka 
> To: Cayuga List 
> Sent: Mon, Dec 30, 2013 10:04 am
> Subject: [cayugabirds-l] Moving the Christmas Count Date Earlier
> 
> Moving the Christmas Count earlier would certainly make it impossible for us 
> and many local families to participate--there are too many conflicting 
> required school or work, or other social events the two weeks before 
> Christmas. In addition, the compilation dinner would not be well-attended, 
> and I think that is an important event bringing many local birders 
> together--it's a nice way to start the new year.
> 
> Sandy 
> 
> At 07:49 AM 12/30/2013, you wrote:
>> I'll stick my neck out and resurect the suggestion that we change our 
>> Christmas count date. It would be great to add the many students and holiday 
>> travelers to our group of counters. Maybe the second or third Saturday of 
>> December.
>> 
>> Laura 
>> 
>> Laura Stenzler
>> l...@cornell.edu
>> 
>> On Dec 29, 2013, at 10:52 PM, "Dave Nutter"  wrote:
>> 
>>> Perhaps the line of fire & proximity of people & buildings was the reason 
>>> the DEC police called in the gunners who were in the SW corner of the lake 
>>> tied to a tree along the shore of Treman. I saw in the background 2 adults 
>>> and a child on the beach of the west shore, associated with the first 
>>> house, a large new one. 
>>> 
>>> I'd like to petition the DEC to have the south end of the lake, say the 
>>> portion within the City of Ithaca, which does not allow firing guns, off 
>>> limits to hunting. 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --Dave
>>> Nutter
>>> 
>>> On Dec 29, 2013, at 08:47 PM, Anne Clark  wrote:
>>> 
>>>> It sounds as if some of these folks might be illegally close to buildings, 
>>>> although I suppose they argue that their guns are pointing down the lake.  
>>>> On the other hand, in the park area, trails and inlets make a complex 
>>>> problem for claiming that nothing could be in the line of fire when 
>>>> shooting at ducks flying in and over.  Do they really stop firing when the 
>>>> ducks swing toward shore? 
>>>> 
>>>> Per the DEC hunting regulations
>>>> 
>>>> Question: How far from a building do I have to be to discharge my firearm?
>>>> Answer: You cannot discharge a firearm or bow within 500 feet of any 
>>>> school, playground, occupied factory or church. You cannot discharge a 
>>>> firearm or bow within 500 feet of a dwelling, farm building, or structure 
>>>> unless you own it, lease it, are an immediate member of the family, an 
>>>> employee, or have the owner's consent. This does not apply to the 
>>>> discharge of a shotgun over water when hunting migratory game birds and no 
>>>> dwelling, public structure, livestock, or person is in the line of fire.
>>>> 
>>>> On Dec 29, 2013, at 5:07 PM, Kenneth V. Rosenberg wrote:

Re:[cayugabirds-l] Moving the Christmas Count Date Earlier

[Carol Schmitt]

 
Iagree with Sandy.  The Jan. 1stdate for the count has its origins with Doc 
Allen, I believe.  He chose it since everyone would have aday off anyway and 
this has worked for years.
   All of our data is based on thisdate so I would think that consistency would 
have value.  (Kevin?)  Until recently, waterfowl numbers on Jan. 1st 
weretremendous;  it is the currenthunting season that is effecting us.
   I want to stick with ourtraditional date.  We might possibly have more 
student participationif we picked another weekend, but many people leave school 
earlier in Decemberthan you might think.  Also, thoseweekends before Christmas 
are much in demand for other holiday parties, etc.(certainly true for our 
household, so we’d be unlikely to participate in thefuture) and I think we’d 
create more of a problem.
   I hope we can make some change onthe hunting regulations at the south end of 
the lake and improve the situationin that way.
CarolSchmitt

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Sandy Podulka 
To: Cayuga List 
Sent: Mon, Dec 30, 2013 10:04 am
Subject: [cayugabirds-l] Moving the Christmas Count Date Earlier


Moving the Christmas Count earlier would certainly make itimpossible for us and 
many local families to participate--there are toomany conflicting required 
school or work, or other social events the twoweeks before Christmas. In 
addition, the compilation dinner would not bewell-attended, and I think that is 
an important event bringing many localbirders together--it's a nice way to 
start the new year.

Sandy 

At 07:49 AM 12/30/2013, you wrote:

I'll stick my neck out andresurect the suggestion that we change our Christmas 
count date. It wouldbe great to add the many students and holiday travelers to 
our group ofcounters. Maybe the second or third Saturday of December.

Laura 

Laura Stenzler
l...@cornell.edu

On Dec 29, 2013, at 10:52 PM, "Dave Nutter"wrote:


Perhaps the line of fire &proximity of people & buildings was the reason the 
DEC police calledin the gunners who were in the SW corner of the lake tied to a 
tree alongthe shore of Treman. I saw in the background 2 adults and a child on 
thebeach of the west shore, associated with the first house, a large newone. 

I'd like to petition the DEC to have the south end of the lake, say theportion 
within the City of Ithaca, which does not allow firing guns, offlimits to 
hunting. 



--Dave
Nutter

On Dec 29, 2013, at 08:47 PM, Anne Clarkwrote:


It sounds as if some of thesefolks might be illegally close to buildings, 
although I suppose theyargue that their guns are pointing down the lake.  On 
the otherhand, in the park area, trails and inlets make a complex problem 
forclaiming that nothing could be in the line of fire when shooting at 
ducksflying in and over.  Do they really stop firing when the ducks swingtoward 
shore? 

Per the DEC hunting regulations

Question: How far from a building do I have to be to discharge myfirearm?
Answer: You cannot discharge a firearm or bow within 500 feet of anyschool, 
playground, occupied factory or church. You cannot discharge afirearm or bow 
within 500 feet of a dwelling, farm building, or structureunless you own it, 
lease it, are an immediate member of the family, anemployee, or have the 
owner's consent. This does not apply to thedischarge of a shotgun over water 
when hunting migratory game birds andno dwelling, public structure, livestock, 
or person is in the line offire.

On Dec 29, 2013, at 5:07 PM, Kenneth V. Rosenberg wrote:


I birded at East Shore Park onSaturday mid-day, and at Stewart Park this 
morning -- I must say that Ihave never seen so much hunting pressure at the 
south end of the lake. Iwant to say clearly that I am not against legal duck 
hunting in wellmanaged areas (and I buy a Migratory Bird Stamp to support 
wetlandconservation), but what is going on this year does not seem to 
besustainable or an appropriate use of such a large public space. Boatswith 
hunters and decoys were anchored right under the trees at the SwanPen at 
Stewart Park, at the tip of the red lighthouse jetty, at thewooden buoy marker, 
on the beach at Hogs Hole, and along East Shore --yesterday there was an 
additional boat cruising the center of the lake tochase duck flocks. Needless 
to say there was not a single spot for ducksto rest safely anywhere in the 
southern quarter-mile or so of Cayuga Lake(and probably north past Myer's Point 
as well), and any flock thatcircled around over the south end of the lake (no 
matter how high) wasshot at. I don't know if DEC would consider that proper 
management ofthis important waterfowl wintering area. This seemed pretty 
differentfrom the past few years when a few hunters kept the duck flocks 
movingaround but there was plenty of place for them to rest -- notably alongthe 
Stewart Park shoreline, which was not available today. 

This activity will undoubtedly affect the numbers of waterfowl 

[cayugabirds-l] Moving the Christmas Count Date Earlier

[Sandy Podulka]

Moving the Christmas Count earlier would certainly make it impossible 
for us and many local families to participate--there are too many 
conflicting required school or work, or other social events the two 
weeks before Christmas. In addition, the compilation dinner would not 
be well-attended, and I think that is an important event bringing 
many local birders together--it's a nice way to start the new year.

Sandy

At 07:49 AM 12/30/2013, you wrote:
>I'll stick my neck out and resurect the suggestion that we change 
>our Christmas count date. It would be great to add the many students 
>and holiday travelers to our group of counters. Maybe the second or 
>third Saturday of December.
>
>Laura
>
>Laura Stenzler
>lm...@cornell.edu
>
>On Dec 29, 2013, at 10:52 PM, "Dave Nutter" 
><nutter.d...@me.com> wrote:
>
>>Perhaps the line of fire & proximity of people & buildings was the 
>>reason the DEC police called in the gunners who were in the SW 
>>corner of the lake tied to a tree along the shore of Treman. I saw 
>>in the background 2 adults and a child on the beach of the west 
>>shore, associated with the first house, a large new one.
>>
>>I'd like to petition the DEC to have the south end of the lake, say 
>>the portion within the City of Ithaca, which does not allow firing 
>>guns, off limits to hunting.
>>
>>
>>--Dave Nutter
>>On Dec 29, 2013, at 08:47 PM, Anne Clark 
>><anneb.cl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>It sounds as if some of these folks might be illegally close to 
>>>buildings, although I suppose they argue that their guns are 
>>>pointing down the lake.  On the other hand, in the park area, 
>>>trails and inlets make a complex problem for claiming that nothing 
>>>could be in the line of fire when shooting at ducks flying in and 
>>>over.  Do they really stop firing when the ducks swing toward shore?
>>>
>>>Per the DEC hunting regulations
>>>
>>>Question: How far from a building do I have to be to discharge my firearm?
>>>Answer: You cannot discharge a firearm or bow within 500 feet of 
>>>any school, playground, occupied factory or church. You cannot 
>>>discharge a firearm or bow within 500 feet of a dwelling, farm 
>>>building, or structure unless you own it, lease it, are an 
>>>immediate member of the family, an employee, or have the owner's 
>>>consent. This does not apply to the discharge of a shotgun over 
>>>water when hunting migratory game birds and no dwelling, public 
>>>structure, livestock, or person is in the line of fire.
>>>
>>>On Dec 29, 2013, at 5:07 PM, Kenneth V. Rosenberg wrote:
>>>
I birded at East Shore Park on Saturday mid-day, and at Stewart 
Park this morning -- I must say that I have never seen so much 
hunting pressure at the south end of the lake. I want to say 
clearly that I am not against legal duck hunting in well managed 
areas (and I buy a Migratory Bird Stamp to support wetland 
conservation), but what is going on this year does not seem to be 
sustainable or an appropriate use of such a large public space. 
Boats with hunters and decoys were anchored right under the trees 
at the Swan Pen at Stewart Park, at the tip of the red lighthouse 
jetty, at the wooden buoy marker, on the beach at Hogs Hole, and 
along East Shore -- yesterday there was an additional boat 
cruising the center of the lake to chase duck flocks. Needless to 
say there was not a single spot for ducks to rest safely anywhere 
in the southern quarter-mile or so of Cayuga Lake (and probably 
north past Myer's Point as well), and any flock that circled 
around over the south end of the lake (no matter how high) was 
shot at. I don't know if DEC would consider that proper 
management of this important waterfowl wintering area. This 
seemed pretty different from the past few years when a few 
hunters kept the duck flocks moving around but there was plenty 
of place for them to rest -- notably along the Stewart Park 
shoreline, which was not available today.

This activity will undoubtedly affect the numbers of waterfowl on 
this year's Christmas Bird Count on Wednesday (wasn't much to 
count today). If this trend continues in future years, I strongly 
recommend that the Cayuga Bird Club move its count to the days 
prior to the late hunting season  -- this slight straying from 
"tradition" will probably yield more accurate numbers of local 
waterfowl populations.

In spite of the hunting, I did manage to see a few distant 
LONG-TAILED DUCKS and a single WHITE-WINGED SCOTER far to the 
north of East Shore Park, and a flock of 12 RUDDY DUCKS, along 
with HORNED and PIED-BIILED GREBES, COMMON LOON, and 3 
DOUBLE-CRESTED CORMORANTS -- all decent CBC birds if they can 
hang in there. There were also TUNDRA SWANS around this morning 
-- 2 on the ice at Stewart Park east